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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Darrow Hill
Vodka and Vice
50
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:20:00 -
[211] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:The last change we did was pretty drastically increase the isk floor across the board on anomalies and the isk coming into the economy jumped after that.
Is it too early to jump on the "null-sec anom running bots are ruining the economy" bandwagon?
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Endeavour Starfleet
687
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:21:00 -
[212] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:[quote=Endeavour Starfleet]
Why the hell would we boost assault and HQ isk rewards when we need to reduce the flow of isk into the game?
I wonder how many times they have to say Incursions arent the main thing causing the inflation before you just get the point?
BTW you do realize that HQs and Assaults make a tiny portion of injected Incursion isk right? A 10M boost per site will do minimal increase in the long run. |
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
113
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:23:00 -
[213] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Which I assume what you mean by adjustments are changes to VGs to remove blitzing while boosting assault and HQ income right?
Side question when will we see a dev blog about those changes? After fanfest right? And will we have plenty of time to test them on Sisi to make sure there arent any surprises right?
Yet thanks for yet again pointing how wrong many are about Incursion Inflation. They just don't get it. In my opinion all they see is rage from Incursions providing an alternative to broken nullsec.
Why the hell would we boost assault and HQ isk rewards when we need to reduce the flow of isk into the game? I'm reasonably confident that it isn't as black and white as that, as it sounds like they are indirectly nerfing the income from vanguards (the real incursion money maker) - and after all CCP wouldn't risk boosting the incurbears risk free income - not when a very large chunk of the player base is already pissed off about it. Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Endeavour Starfleet
687
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:25:00 -
[214] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:No, that's incorrect. The massive jumps we see in terms of isk almost always come when we make adjustments to anomalies. The last change we did was pretty drastically increase the isk floor across the board on anomalies and the isk coming into the economy jumped after that.
--- Thread |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
66
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:25:00 -
[215] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:How about nerfing both incursions (more LP, much les isk - especially in high sec) and bounties (harder nerf for high sec than low and null - possibly increase salvage to compensate)?
FIxes the risk reward scale and inflation.
NOPE can't see any bias you have against hi sec making ISK. Here let me throw it back at you: How about nerfing Tech moons ( making moons run dry eventually and having Drones randomly poop moon goo even in HI SEC ) and having a harder nerf to bounties in NULL SEC because obviously the biggest bots are operating in impunity protected in the depths of SOV space
/sarcasmMode |
Endeavour Starfleet
687
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:28:00 -
[216] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:I'm reasonably confident that it isn't as black and white as that, as it sounds like they are indirectly nerfing the income from vanguards (the real incursion money maker) - and after all CCP wouldn't risk boosting the incurbears risk free income - not when a very large chunk of the player base is already pissed off about it.
Who is "pissed off" A bunch of nullsec folks generating falsehood after falsehood to attack an aspect of the game competing with their broken, bot filled nullsec?
Are they going to take their 1,337 accounts and leave? Or better yet leave after VGs get changed and Assaults and HQs get a small buff? If they leave because of that then EVE will do better without them. I wonder how much they will scream with modular Corp and POS will make small corps viable again and nullsec starts to change for the better.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
411
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:29:00 -
[217] - Quote
Eso Es wrote:Gogela wrote:Read this and then read this. You clearly haven't read a thing I've said. My point is precisely that anywhere the EvE system is paying people directly in ISK for something there is a problem. I don't want to nerf incursions. I want to remove all EvE system ISK payouts entirely and replace them with something you can sell on the market. It's the only way to achieve any kind of balance that doesn't require CCP to constantly intervene. My point isn't moot you just didn't read anything in this thread. BTW - I get raises in EvE every day the market inflates. So do most people. The only people who's paychecks don't keep pace with inflation are people who play exclusively PvE content. Your knowledge of market mechanics explains why you keep getting passed up for that raise... Sorry for missing your post in the 9 page wall of text that is this thread :S So people that make money off other players receive "raises" for their efforst, and people being paid by CCP do not, makes sense. Are you still saying that Hi Sec Incursions haven't lead to the crazy amounts of inflation being reported on these forums? (Sure botters have contributed, but I still point my finger to the risk free ISK faucet that is Hi Sec Incursions.) On a somewhat unrelated theme, you also have to consider this thread. Nothing to do with inflation, but again, Incursions are terrible for the EVE universe for more than just inflation.
No... that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter, and you can't pull Incursions out of the equation and isolate them and blame everything on them. A moderate rate of inflation is actually healthy for this economy and is to be expected from the way the EvE market functions. Runaway inflation is the risk of any mechanic that pays a player directly in ISK. If the market cannot control or even influence a source of ISK, than hell yes inflation is going to accelerate!
OK... so here is why I am getting miffed: people are isolating their own mechanic of choice and trying to blame runaway inflation on that. It's the botters, or it's the missions, or it's the null NPCs, or... in your case... it's Incursions. All of these mechanics are doing the SAME DAMN THING and that is give players ISK - which is given it's relative value by the MARKET - directly, and without any regard for how the market has valued the ISK. I mean this is economics 101 stuff! Where is CCP's economist? Doesn't that guy take a look at anything? Doesn't he have a DOCTORATE in this smack? If a RL comparison must be made I would say EvE is like an emerging market. If you keep giving people ISK for nothing the economy is going to react like Germany's did in the 30's or Greece's looks right now. It's not sustainable, because (in our context) the NPCs think they control the market and can just print ISK without producing anything, which is in effect a tax on the rest of us through inflation. The problem is, as with Greece, there's only so much the free economy can sustain until the ISK is devalued so much it is worthless. Now in EvE, we have the ability to do something NO OTHER ECONOMY can reasonably do... and that is reverse the process. Specifically, instead of paying for Incursions in ISK, we pay in something else.
As a hypothetical, what if there was some new component required in every ships hull. What if in order to build anything, you needed "Element-X'. Now what if Element-X was paid by NPCs to mission runners or incursion fleets? What if the amount of element-X entering the game was pegged to the production of the element zydrine, and pilots only received their fraction of the total pot for the work they did that day missioning or whatever on a percentage basis? All of a sudden, you would have the market regulating ALL of the ISK faucets in the game. Now don't get caught up in details. It doesn't have to be called "Element-X" and it doesn't need to be integrated into industry in that way. I'm just saying if all this free ISK goes away and you are given something else for your effort (f***ing LP points or whatever) everything WILL take care of itself. The market will self regulate and balance itself and missions, rats, and incursions will pay as much as they can for the number of people running them, adjust accordingly like it does now with mining or anything else, and CCP won't have to do a damn thing about it ever again.
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baltec1
790
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:29:00 -
[218] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:baltec1 wrote:[quote=Endeavour Starfleet]
Why the hell would we boost assault and HQ isk rewards when we need to reduce the flow of isk into the game? I wonder how many times they have to say Incursions arent the main thing causing the inflation before you just get the point? BTW you do realize that HQs and Assaults make a tiny portion of injected Incursion isk right? A 10M boost per site will do minimal increase in the long run.
Or we can not boost them and nerf the rewards of vanguards thus making them worth doing while at the same time reducing inflation?
Incursions might not be the biggest but there sure as hell have not helped matters. An across the board nerf in isk income sounds good to me given the plans for the dronelands. |
Endeavour Starfleet
687
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:30:00 -
[219] - Quote
Darrow Hill wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:The last change we did was pretty drastically increase the isk floor across the board on anomalies and the isk coming into the economy jumped after that. Is it too early to jump on the "null-sec anom running bots are ruining the economy" bandwagon?
Best solution to that. Report all bots even blue ones. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1227
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 21:31:00 -
[220] - Quote
Andski wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:How much ISK was paid out over the same time period in insurance? How does that amount compare with the other sources of income we are discussing? Ship destruction should be an ISK sink, not an ISK faucet. I realize the implications and issues that would have to be dealt with, but frankly Insurance either needs to go or be completely reworked. This would bring balance to the force. stop posting your awful, awful ideas
Hey, I don't badger you about YOUR awful, awful ideas.
I would have thought you'd be in complete support at the overwhelming flow of tears such a change would prompt from those who refuse to follow EVE's golden rule.
Truthfully, I recognize that this would not be a complete fix... far from it. However, the fact remains ship destruction should not push this much ISK back into the system.
Oh, to the person earlier who said that initially purchasing the ship was the ISK sink... well, that's not an ISk sink. Thats just ISK redistribution. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
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Kusanagi Kasuga
Ferocious Felines
23
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:33:00 -
[221] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Hmm. I wrote this well before Incursions hit: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-b - you could potentially use it to enlighten yourself. I'd say that the only thing I want to emphasize is just how much of a massive PITA it is to convert LP to ISK instead of just getting straight ISK. There's just a lot of infrastructure involved in transporting all the tags and setting up the buy/sell orders and contracts - and that LP conversion is a form of straight market PVP. Also, you only get 20M ISK/hr running missions? Really? -Liang
Yes, really. And I very much agree about LP>ISK being a PITA. I don't include it in the ISK/hour because the effort required to work out how to get even a half-way efficient conversion is punitive, and would eat significantly into the time required to the extent it's basically not worth it.
There's a turning point for highsec missions where you can start raking in the cash, I'm sure. It's when you're flying a tengu/faction BS full of shiny, and can afford to lower your tank in favour of more DPS. In other words, you can make a lot more ISK in missions, once you're already rolling in ISK.
I also agree that missions in 0.0 and lowsec probably need a boost (primarily in terms of reducing the wasteful effort) if your blog is accurate. Lowsec more than 0.0, in my biased opinion - I would actually like to live in lowsec, whereas the attitude of many of the most prominent 0.0 players puts me off joining nullsec. |
Endeavour Starfleet
687
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 21:34:00 -
[222] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:baltec1 wrote:[quote=Endeavour Starfleet]
Why the hell would we boost assault and HQ isk rewards when we need to reduce the flow of isk into the game? I wonder how many times they have to say Incursions arent the main thing causing the inflation before you just get the point? BTW you do realize that HQs and Assaults make a tiny portion of injected Incursion isk right? A 10M boost per site will do minimal increase in the long run. Or we can not boost them and nerf the rewards of vanguards thus making them worth doing while at the same time reducing inflation? Incursions might not be the biggest but there sure as hell have not helped matters. An across the board nerf in isk income sounds good to me given the plans for the dronelands.
I am going to just say you know very little about HQs and leave it at that. Again they look good on paper but poor in implementation.
Now about your "across the board" nerf. You don't seem to understand that will just make those with the money even more valuable and powerful. The MAIN thing that has to happen is attacking the bots on every level of the game. You can do a nerf of say a dock tax or some other BS and that will all together equal to maybe ONE bot lord.
Get them out of the game and the game will benefit. If you have to break up alliances that have "Dont report blue" rules so be it. Got to get serious about botting. |
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
113
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 21:35:00 -
[223] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:baltec1 wrote:[quote=Endeavour Starfleet]
Why the hell would we boost assault and HQ isk rewards when we need to reduce the flow of isk into the game? I wonder how many times they have to say Incursions arent the main thing causing the inflation before you just get the point? BTW you do realize that HQs and Assaults make a tiny portion of injected Incursion isk right? A 10M boost per site will do minimal increase in the long run. And how many times to we have to say that they are still a pretty big RISK FREE contributor (bolded the bit that pisses the most people off).
And yes, we all hate bots too, but CCP has killed, and will continue to kill, lots and lots of the automated buggers.
(@DarthNefarius, I would also like to see tech nerfed - but left it out because it doesn't actually print isk, and as for a bias against high sec - Risk vs Reward, but thats all for another thread)
(@Endevour Starfleet - again, *Sigh* I should have listened to my own sig...) Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
gfldex
366
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 21:36:00 -
[224] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:You're aware that we're making adjustments to Incursions right? I've never said we didn't need to look at Incursion income in isolation, the point I made was that in terms of money coming into the economy, bounties are a massive issue. I'm not entirely sure why some of you keep insisting that it's either or.
Do Incursions need looking at? Absolutely, that's already been done and is awaiting deployment. Are Incursions the big issue in terms of isk coming into the economy? Not even remotely.
You got me wrong. My problem is not the payout of Incursions. My problem is where that payout is done. Highsec Incursions provide not only an alternative but even a counter to highsec multi account mining
Quite some time ago, before first botting and then Incursions helped a great deal to pump ISK into the wallets of _some_ players, a 30 day GTC could be bought for 140M. A miner could run 5 accounts and easily to get the 700M to maintain the accounts. The rest of the month he could move ISK into his wallet that was then (quite often) spend on BPOs
With the current PLEX prices you simply can't do that. Mining bots can but players can't
As a result mineral prices will keep going up. There is no inflation in EVE. That's just bullshit I never proposed to be the case. But there is a shift of income that hurts anybody (and new players the most as they can't run incursions) who wants to buy ships because they are the biggest mineral sink. As a result you pretty much force players who lose ships quite often to run Incursions or do some botting. We both know where the moon goo ISK goes too. Or where it should have went in Delve. (har har har
If you look into my corp wallet for sell orders (can you actually do that?) you will see why I personally have no interest in dropping mineral prices. I still believe that this is a big can of worms waiting to pop open. I care because I care about EVE
If you keep providing alternatives (that don't even require NPC standings) for highsec mining mineral prices will keep raising. If you drop the drone loot change on top of that all hell will break lose. For all what is holy, don't do the drone change that was reported (was that a hoax?) to be on chaos until you sorted highsec Incursions
Even if you change Incursions, as long as they stay in highsec for an extended period of time (more then a few hours), you still provide an alternative to mining that only very new players or a complete moron could reject The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
Endeavour Starfleet
687
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:38:00 -
[225] - Quote
I stopped reading when you tried to use PLEX prices. When GTCs were around the big players all had multiple YEARS already paid on their accounts. They werent even considering GTCs/PLEX yet. |
Endeavour Starfleet
687
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:41:00 -
[226] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:baltec1 wrote:[quote=Endeavour Starfleet]
Why the hell would we boost assault and HQ isk rewards when we need to reduce the flow of isk into the game? I wonder how many times they have to say Incursions arent the main thing causing the inflation before you just get the point? BTW you do realize that HQs and Assaults make a tiny portion of injected Incursion isk right? A 10M boost per site will do minimal increase in the long run. And how many times to we have to say that they are still a pretty big RISK FREE contributor (bolded the bit that pisses the most people off) and that we want a nerf across the board. And yes, we all hate bots too, but CCP has killed, and will continue to kill, lots and lots of the automated buggers. (@DarthNefarius, I would also like to see tech nerfed - but left it out because it doesn't actually print isk, and as for a bias against high sec - Risk vs Reward, but thats all for another thread) (@Endevour Starfleet - again, *Sigh* I should have listened to my own sig...)
People are losing ships in incursions. RIsk free my ass. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
301
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 21:42:00 -
[227] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:No, that's incorrect. The massive jumps we see in terms of isk almost always come when we make adjustments to anomalies. The last change we did was pretty drastically increase the isk floor across the board on anomalies and the isk coming into the economy jumped after that. --- Thread
He could easilly end these threads by providing the numbers that prove what he says.
But if he leaves us with no numbers except what we have regarding incursions then its hard for anyone with a brain to ignore incursions as a cause of inflation.
Let us see the numbers on how much more isk was generated by bounties before and after this floor.
If it was several times more than what incursions bring in then yeah I will agree incursions aren't the main issue. If it was less than incursions bring in then incursions would be the bigger issue. If it was equal to what incursions bring in then I will consider them both equally to blame.
Does that seem reasonable?
I'm trying to see if you will admit to some things before we get the numbers so that after we get them you don't just keep spinning them. It would demonstrate you are not completely biased.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Grumpy Owly
311
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:42:00 -
[228] - Quote
I'm just going to leave this here: Told you so.
*walks away with a satisfied smug grin* Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
174
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:44:00 -
[229] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:highonpop wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.
One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board. or maybe do the 1 thing you KNOW will regulate the flow... Switching Incursions from ISK to LP payout... Or tell the Sansha to go home... Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.
It's just another method of obtaining bounties or farming ISK.
Remove all bounties and introduce a sponsorships sytem for ISK using NPC corps and empires. You want to be a cop, have Concord as your main sponsor. For me it will be Gallente Material Acquisition. It's the only corp I have ever really done anything with but it's not an easy fix solution so just go with the mighty nerf bat. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1043
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:45:00 -
[230] - Quote
Kusanagi Kasuga wrote: Yes, really. And I very much agree about LP>ISK being a PITA. I don't include it in the ISK/hour because the effort required to work out how to get even a half-way efficient conversion is punitive, and would eat significantly into the time required to the extent it's basically not worth it.
There's a turning point for highsec missions where you can start raking in the cash, I'm sure. It's when you're flying a tengu/faction BS full of shiny, and can afford to lower your tank in favour of more DPS. In other words, you can make a lot more ISK in missions, once you're already rolling in ISK.
I also agree that missions in 0.0 and lowsec probably need a boost (primarily in terms of reducing the wasteful effort) if your blog is accurate. Lowsec more than 0.0, in my biased opinion - I would actually like to live in lowsec, whereas the attitude of many of the most prominent 0.0 players puts me off joining nullsec.
You honestly consider LP conversion to ISK to be enough of a PITA that you don't include it in your personal ISK calculations, yet that's exactly how all the "high level missions" make the high level ISK they report. In other words, you can't make a lot more ISK in missions.
On that note though, I'd like to point out that the LP conversion for FW and Pirate missions in 0.0 is arbitrarily more irritating than high sec LP conversion. If these mission runners followed your personal philosophy regarding ISK vs LP, they'd make less ISK/hr than your average trit miner. They are essentially ISK neutral and require large quantities of external ISK to jump start the LP conversion process - and in the end both of them actually operate as large ISK sinks.
For reference, I'd estimate that including LP conversion and looting tags via a Marauder, its hard to make more than ~60M/hr running pirate missions - despite the fact its hostile/NPC 0.0 and you wreck your empire standings. ;-)
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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baltec1
790
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:46:00 -
[231] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
I am going to just say you know very little about HQs and leave it at that. Again they look good on paper but poor in implementation.
Now about your "across the board" nerf. You don't seem to understand that will just make those with the money even more valuable and powerful. The MAIN thing that has to happen is attacking the bots on every level of the game. You can do a nerf of say a dock tax or some other BS and that will all together equal to maybe ONE bot lord.
Get them out of the game and the game will benefit. If you have to break up alliances that have "Dont report blue" rules so be it. Got to get serious about botting.
Bots are not behind the massive inflation. How many times must this be said?
The Isk flow must be dragged back, do that and everything including bots will earn less and inflation will go back to something more manageable. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
301
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 21:50:00 -
[232] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Kusanagi Kasuga wrote: Yes, really. And I very much agree about LP>ISK being a PITA. I don't include it in the ISK/hour because the effort required to work out how to get even a half-way efficient conversion is punitive, and would eat significantly into the time required to the extent it's basically not worth it.
There's a turning point for highsec missions where you can start raking in the cash, I'm sure. It's when you're flying a tengu/faction BS full of shiny, and can afford to lower your tank in favour of more DPS. In other words, you can make a lot more ISK in missions, once you're already rolling in ISK.
I also agree that missions in 0.0 and lowsec probably need a boost (primarily in terms of reducing the wasteful effort) if your blog is accurate. Lowsec more than 0.0, in my biased opinion - I would actually like to live in lowsec, whereas the attitude of many of the most prominent 0.0 players puts me off joining nullsec.
You honestly consider LP conversion to ISK to be enough of a PITA that you don't include it in your personal ISK calculations, yet that's exactly how all the "high level missions" make the high level ISK they report. In other words, you can't make a lot more ISK in missions. On that note though, I'd like to point out that the LP conversion for FW and Pirate missions in 0.0 is arbitrarily more irritating than high sec LP conversion. If these mission runners followed your personal philosophy regarding ISK vs LP, they'd make less ISK/hr than your average trit miner. They are essentially ISK neutral and require large quantities of external ISK to jump start the LP conversion process - and in the end both of them actually operate as large ISK sinks. For reference, I'd estimate that including LP conversion and looting tags via a Marauder, its hard to make more than ~60M/hr running pirate missions - despite the fact its hostile/NPC 0.0 and you wreck your empire standings. ;-) -Liang
Faction war missions you get no bounties at all. It is entirely an isk sink.
edit: It used to be an isk sink when people ran them. Now people just run high sec incursions to make better isk :) Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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baltec1
790
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:50:00 -
[233] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
People are losing ships in incursions. RIsk free my ass.
And people lose supercarriers to anoms. NPCs killing the odd stupid is not risk. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
412
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:50:00 -
[234] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Bots are not behind the massive inflation. How many times must this be said?
The Isk flow must be dragged back, do that and everything including bots will earn less and inflation will go back to something more manageable.
You don't have to pay "less" explicitly... just don't pay ISK. Pay in something the market can put a pricetag on instead of trying to tell the market what ISK is worth.
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Kusanagi Kasuga
Ferocious Felines
23
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:52:00 -
[235] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: You honestly consider LP conversion to ISK to be enough of a PITA that you don't include it in your personal ISK calculations, yet that's exactly how all the "high level missions" make the high level ISK they report. In other words, you can't make a lot more ISK in missions. -Liang
Are you personally experienced in these matters? If so, I'd gladly chat with you about getting more out of my LP, but it would be offtopic for this thread.
Liang Nuren wrote: For reference, I'd estimate that including LP conversion and looting tags via a Marauder, its hard to make more than ~60M/hr running pirate missions - despite the fact its hostile/NPC 0.0 and you wreck your empire standings. ;-) -Liang
Do you have information on the anomalies that are, as far as I've heard, where the ISK is at in nullsec (not including moongoo, which everyone agrees needs to be nerfed, and yet CCP does nothing) |
Endeavour Starfleet
687
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:54:00 -
[236] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:No, that's incorrect. The massive jumps we see in terms of isk almost always come when we make adjustments to anomalies. The last change we did was pretty drastically increase the isk floor across the board on anomalies and the isk coming into the economy jumped after that. --- Thread He could easilly end these threads by providing the numbers that prove what he says. But if he leaves us with no numbers except what we have regarding incursions then its hard for anyone with a brain to ignore incursions as a cause of inflation. Let us see the numbers on how much more isk was generated by bounties before and after this floor. If it was several times more than what incursions bring in then yeah I will agree incursions aren't the main issue. If it was less than incursions bring in then incursions would be the bigger issue. If it was equal to what incursions bring in then I will consider them both equally to blame. Does that seem reasonable? I'm trying to see if you will admit to some things before we get the numbers so that after we get them you don't just keep spinning them. It would demonstrate you are not completely biased.
I don't care if you think I am biased or not. All I care about these days is if you are going to start actually using the report bot function or just blame something else.
As for numbers that is likely waiting for a dev blog. Or a tweet. And how will you factor in the Anom nerf and boost? How will you factor in bots and bot growth?
You would need a hell of alot more data than a couple of before and after charts. I only care about the fact that as of recently bounties are injecting several times the isk as Incursions and that in my opinion a large chunk of that is bot based. If all I cared about what "NERF IT ALL!" Why am I not supporting the rumored bounty nerf? As an incursion runner I should be jumping for joy at the thought of nullsec folks getting punished no? I am not because while large alliances do need a change the bounty nerf will harm legit players a hell of alot more than bots.
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baltec1
791
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Posted - 2012.03.12 21:56:00 -
[237] - Quote
Gogela wrote:
You don't have to pay "less" explicitly... just don't pay ISK. Pay in something the market can put a pricetag on instead of trying to tell the market what ISK is worth.
We need new isk to enter the game otherwise we end up with the opposite, chronic deflation which is just as harmfull. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
66
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Posted - 2012.03.12 22:01:00 -
[238] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Which I assume what you mean by adjustments are changes to VGs to remove blitzing while boosting assault and HQ income right?
Side question when will we see a dev blog about those changes? After fanfest right? And will we have plenty of time to test them on Sisi to make sure there arent any surprises right?
Yet thanks for yet again pointing how wrong many are about Incursion Inflation. They just don't get it. In my opinion all they see is rage from Incursions providing an alternative to broken nullsec.
Why the hell would we boost assault and HQ isk rewards when we need to reduce the flow of isk into the game?
Because you'd have more people doing assaults & HQ's if their ISK/hour were mre on par with Vanguards... if it were not for the time to set these fleets up they are ALOT more fun then Vanguards and more ships are lost more often because of the higher Alphas. The less ISK/ hour because they are not such a grind makes them worth it but talking people into doing them with the extreme dispaity in profit per hour always makes it a difficult proposition especially for NCN's |
baltec1
791
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Posted - 2012.03.12 22:02:00 -
[239] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote: the bounty nerf will harm legit players a hell of alot more than bots.
How? |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
412
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Posted - 2012.03.12 22:02:00 -
[240] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Gogela wrote:
You don't have to pay "less" explicitly... just don't pay ISK. Pay in something the market can put a pricetag on instead of trying to tell the market what ISK is worth.
We need new isk to enter the game otherwise we end up with the opposite, chronic deflation which is just as harmfull.
Well as more than a few people have pointed out, ISK entering the game right now isn't a problem. What I suggested doesn't need to be applied globally... I'm just saying it could be. I totally agree though, deflation of any kind would actually be a bad thing, and is a lot more dangerous than inflation because if deflation go out of control it would really wreck the game experience.
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