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Asuka Smith
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:18:00 -
[31]
And it is the only game in town... There is a lot to be said to be running the only gambling house, no matter how disreputable.
Realistically EOH could up the scam quota to probably one a month and peeps would still play.
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PuncherDavis
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:21:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Asuka Smith Edited by: Asuka Smith on 17/06/2008 07:13:57 Not gonna lie Puncher I stopped reading after you said you worked professional customer service. (Because at that point I realized you were lying)
And to think your probably one of those people that dont pay thier bills and want credits all the time because you dont fully read the contract of what you are getting into.
But I dont care what ya beleive bud if your as deep as a bird bath and wont go into the deep end of it to understand what is being said then your ignorance is your choice not mine ..:)
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Thirzarr
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:22:00 -
[33]
Hm, I do understand Selene being VERY carefull about who to give money to. On the other hand:
If gilca * wasn't at the table * payed the buyin
then... erm... what would be the "loss" of giving byck the buyin?
Am I missing something? Or did another "gilca" play your money at the table? So... someone else had your poker login? *wonders* This is the part that makes no sense at all. To me, at least.
Q: Did someone else use YOUR login to the poker game and CLAIM to be you and play that round?
Qa): If yes: why did he have you password/login? Qb): If no password is needed: ermm... no, cant be THAT unsecured, can it? Its quite some isk involved, I'm shure "registered and veryfied" is required to play, no?
=> So: either its your fault by giving away your login-data or choosing such bad data that it was guessed instantly (like "Just Enter" being the password)... In that case you can be more then happy with a "supportive reimbursement to stay on your feet". => Or: There has been done a terrible job at securing this kind of game. This being the obvious duty of the Corp it was wantonly negligent to not take precaution and therefore a full reimbursement would be suitable.
Remember: Selene organized this and I'm pretty shure that 420 Mill buyin isn't worth the time spent in creating all this. So I'd suggest you behave less like a modern-day-politician and more like a person of honor.
Whats the worst thing that could have happened to you at the table? Right: Loosing everything. So you have to have expected this. Don't panic now.
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PuncherDavis
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:24:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Asuka Smith And it is the only game in town... There is a lot to be said to be running the only gambling house, no matter how disreputable.
Realistically EOH could up the scam quota to probably one a month and peeps would still play.
So now your saying because they have a monopoly on the situation they should be then given leeway to perform scams because they are the only ones that offer the service.
I wonder if you realize how incredibly ignorant that sounds and if you ever get into business let me in on it so I dont buy anything from ya
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Asuka Smith
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:31:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Wakari Masen This is pretty ridiculous. I don't understand how Selene tells gilca in the chat log that he has been working / investigating this for three hours but can't seem to offer up any actual reason to support the lack of refund.
I bet there are a lot of other people who have accepted the settlement without talking about it on the forums and stuff.
That said... I've never used any poker service because I just assumed that people would be stacking tables and cheating any way they could o.O
Lol, EVE players are the most righteously indignant people in the world, if an EVE player gets scammed he makes a thread I doubt anything like this has EVER happened before.
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Vrix Xin
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:35:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Vrix Xin on 17/06/2008 07:36:02
Originally by: Thirzarr Hm, I do understand Selene being VERY carefull about who to give money to. On the other hand:
If gilca * wasn't at the table * payed the buyin
then... erm... what would be the "loss" of giving byck the buyin?
Am I missing something? Or did another "gilca" play your money at the table? So... someone else had your poker login? *wonders* This is the part that makes no sense at all. To me, at least.
Q: Did someone else use YOUR login to the poker game and CLAIM to be you and play that round?
Qa): If yes: why did he have you password/login? Qb): If no password is needed: ermm... no, cant be THAT unsecured, can it? Its quite some isk involved, I'm shure "registered and veryfied" is required to play, no?
=> So: either its your fault by giving away your login-data or choosing such bad data that it was guessed instantly (like "Just Enter" being the password)... In that case you can be more then happy with a "supportive reimbursement to stay on your feet". => Or: There has been done a terrible job at securing this kind of game. This being the obvious duty of the Corp it was wantonly negligent to not take precaution and therefore a full reimbursement would be suitable.
Remember: Selene organized this and I'm pretty shure that 420 Mill buyin isn't worth the time spent in creating all this. So I'd suggest you behave less like a modern-day-politician and more like a person of honor.
Whats the worst thing that could have happened to you at the table? Right: Loosing everything. So you have to have expected this. Don't panic now.
the current service is unsecured (anyone can login and "pretend" to be you, aall you have to do is type in a player name before you get on a table.).
I'm pretty sure this has actually already happened before, however never has it happened (to my knowledge) in a game with 420 million isk buy ins.
EDIT: However this will all be fixed in a week when the new poker client is implemented that will not allow name scamming and things of that nature (bit too late though unfortunately)
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Wakari Masen
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:40:00 -
[37]
So I dont get it, if gilca is lying... what would he be getting out of it?
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PuncherDavis
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:43:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Wakari Masen So I dont get it, if gilca is lying... what would he be getting out of it?
Nothing just the initial 420 million buy it...Seems kind of strange because most people be like yeah man i won 750 mill man pay me 600 mil and well call it even wink wink
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Vrix Xin
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:43:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Wakari Masen So I dont get it, if gilca is lying... what would he be getting out of it?
He's not lying for the record, however some would claim that he is lying just to destroy the poker reputation.
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Vrix Xin
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:45:00 -
[40]
Originally by: PuncherDavis
Originally by: Wakari Masen So I dont get it, if gilca is lying... what would he be getting out of it?
Nothing just the initial 420 million buy it...Seems kind of strange because most people be like yeah man i won 750 mill man pay me 600 mil and well call it even wink wink
although this is somewhat pointless. The game type being played at the time was called a "double game" where the top half of the table still standing (after the other hafl runs out of chips) gets 2x their buy in.
I've watched gilca play in these and he wins most of the time. A guy like him doesn't need to go all in every single hand to win it.
I think the specfics are besides the point though.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:48:00 -
[41]
shame on you SELLENE!!
YOU TOOK THAT POOR MANS TITAN , AND GAVE IT AWAY TO YOUR PET CEO OF THE MOEMENT.
now he is biomassing his characters - ands its all your fault.
SKUNK
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PuncherDavis
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:49:00 -
[42]
Funny thing is I know who has money in the banker group and 420 million is nothing to these guys..They .001 each other to death or do mass low order buys and resell mins at higher cost after doing mass melting and reselling in whatever region they are in.
This to them is not even one days profit for alot of them so that makes the rub that much worse for Gilka
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Blind Jhon
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:51:00 -
[43]
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Zanarkand
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:52:00 -
[44]
He could have lost a few first hands and seen that he isn't likely to win anymore... and he thought he would be better off pretending to be scammed and possibly be refunded. Or has this been proven(!) wrong? Sorry, I didn't read all the logs...
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MilowFV
Echo Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:58:00 -
[45]
Not that what I think matters, but it looks like Gilca got screw here. The banker should have stop the game when he saw there was a problem vs rushing to get the game done and collect his money and move on.
I also think after seeing how it play out Selene should have just paid out the 420 million isk to Gilca and chalk it up to a bad day. I dont think Selena scam gilca, but I also dont think she did the right thing. Just my 2 cents.
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Vrix Xin
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Posted - 2008.06.17 08:01:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Zanarkand He could have lost a few first hands and seen that he isn't likely to win anymore... and he thought he would be better off pretending to be scammed and possibly be refunded. Or has this been proven(!) wrong? Sorry, I didn't read all the logs...
Based on the timetable of events, he was already saying he couldn't get in before the game even started.
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Selene D'Celeste
The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.06.17 08:32:00 -
[47]
Welp. One of those nights.
First off, I'm not responding to everyone here, I already spent way too much time trying to sort out what happened and then deal with gilca without compromising my channel rules or my personal values. This is also the only time I am replying here. I will include a few of the most recent posts here to bounce off of as well.
Most things I could say are in chat logs linked by gilca above, so there's not too much to explain. **** went down tonight and someone was unhappy with how it ended.
Originally by: Zanarkand He could have lost a few first hands and seen that he isn't likely to win anymore... and he thought he would be better off pretending to be scammed and possibly be refunded. Or has this been proven(!) wrong? Sorry, I didn't read all the logs...
Available to me were hand logs, chat logs, and EVE chat logs. All of the important stuff happened in a 2-3 minute window, and wasn't easy to sort out. Could gilca be innocent? Sure. Should the game have been stopped at the first sign of possible trouble? Maybe. But it didn't happen in time. I included the quote above because this is exactly why we have the rules we do. There have been some ridiculously well acted and drawn out scam attempts to not lose money or steal money from players in our channel. Unless I have enough evidence, or all players at a table agree, I do not authorize changing payouts once a game has started. There is no point arguing over whether the evidence was sufficient, I made my judgment call already.
Originally by: MilowFV I also think after seeing how it play out Selene should have just paid out the 420 million isk to Gilca and chalk it up to a bad day. I dont think Selena scam gilca, but I also dont think she did the right thing. Just my 2 cents.
While this scenario is possible, there are more details. Quite some time after the incident, once I finished reviewing what logs we had, I announced in channel that the game was to be paid out normally and gilca was not recieving a refund. At this point a nub-corp character speaks up stating that he did this to gilca, and that he was trying to make more money for my bankers (a banker was playing in the game). Later in private convo this person gave ample proof that they were an enemy of mine out to harm the channel's reputation by their actions. There is a chance that gilca is an innocent bystander, but having had similar scenarios in the past (there was one attached to the Genocide incident detailed in our service thread, for example) where a supposed victim is actually the one trying to scam or rile up people in channel, I can not in good conscience say "sure here is your money back out of my pocket even though you may be the one trying to scam me". It is bad enough that this person already "won" tonight, simply by this thread existing and me spending time on this issue.
Also as seen in gilca's logs, I tried to offer a medium I could live with were he involved with this reputation-attack against me and the poker channel. But I will never put myself into a position to play perfectly into the hands of someone trying to harm me or my business as has happened to me at times in the past.
So, feel however you do about this, I have made my judgment on this issue (as I always do) and life will go one. Some people will forget about this tomorrow, others will be unhappy, and EOH will still be there.
As Vrix noted we are very close to upgrading the client to prevent this and many other possible problems, and we possibly have a way to prevent name scamming / banker scams from ever being a problem again as well.
As a final note, a customer having issues with our services is not an event, and should not have its own thread. I am going to ask the moderators to lock this, and I would like further discussion to continue in our actual service thread. I will even link this thread in that one once this is locked simple for bookkeeping. Cheers and goodnight.
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gilca
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.17 09:18:00 -
[48]
Edited by: gilca on 17/06/2008 09:21:29 It's unbelievable that you won't take a few minutes of your time to see if there's solid proof that it wasn't a scam. If the logs and the time difference proves that I said my name was in use before the game started, then what was my motivation? Before a single chip fell?
this was not a problem with your service, this was a calculated move by someone to **** me (or possibly just a random person) over. I know you weren't behind it, but I hold you responsible for not preventing it, since there is absolutely nothing else I could have done to prevent this. I send money to a real banker, I log into the table. your banker tells me to rejoin, I tell him i'm not on the table, I cant get in, but the game goes on. WTF else can I do selene?
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maarud
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.06.17 09:38:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
As a final note, a customer having issues with our services is not an event, and should not have its own thread. I am going to ask the moderators to lock this, and I would like further discussion to continue in our actual service thread. I will even link this thread in that one once this is locked simple for bookkeeping. Cheers and goodnight.
LOL, can't handle a bit of bad publicity so you're going to get the thread locked and then hide a link to it in your own thread... nice. Its not your thread and I don't see any out of the way smack or anything, so good luck with that.
You guys looked like you had a decent system running, but I suppose as long as everything is running smoothly, then it works. Get a hick up and its time to bury your head in the sand and hope it all goes away. Good business practice, hope it works out for you.
Maarud.
Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
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gilca
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.17 09:47:00 -
[50]
Edited by: gilca on 17/06/2008 09:48:38
well I guess i'm **** out of luck now since Selene is thoroughly peeved, anyone want to buy a vagabond pilot in training? Great learning skills, 4.7mil total sp with cruiser 5 done and out of the way.
Skills
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Vincenzo Delloro
Lux et Veritas
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Posted - 2008.06.17 09:49:00 -
[51]
Who the hell joins an internet spaceship game where you can fly around and blow stuff up, then spends their nights playing poker through it?
I'm calling shenanigans on the whole idea.
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gilca
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.17 09:53:00 -
[52]
Edited by: gilca on 17/06/2008 09:53:26 hah I made about 100-200mil isk a night playing poker instead of running missions for isk. It was a great passtime, and I played ALOT of games in EOH and paid well over 400mil isk just in rakes. Too good to be true I guess, too bad I just bought two gtc's for my characters, so completely drained my isk.
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Eardianm
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.06.17 09:55:00 -
[53]
Originally by: maarud
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
As a final note, a customer having issues with our services is not an event, and should not have its own thread. I am going to ask the moderators to lock this, and I would like further discussion to continue in our actual service thread. I will even link this thread in that one once this is locked simple for bookkeeping. Cheers and goodnight.
LOL, can't handle a bit of bad publicity so you're going to get the thread locked and then hide a link to it in your own thread... nice. Its not your thread and I don't see any out of the way smack or anything, so good luck with that.
You guys looked like you had a decent system running, but I suppose as long as everything is running smoothly, then it works. Get a hick up and its time to bury your head in the sand and hope it all goes away. Good business practice, hope it works out for you.
This, pretty much spot on. --------------
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gnshadowninja
Baptism oF Fire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.06.17 11:47:00 -
[54]
Originally by: maarud
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
As a final note, a customer having issues with our services is not an event, and should not have its own thread. I am going to ask the moderators to lock this, and I would like further discussion to continue in our actual service thread. I will even link this thread in that one once this is locked simple for bookkeeping. Cheers and goodnight.
LOL, can't handle a bit of bad publicity so you're going to get the thread locked and then hide a link to it in your own thread... nice. Its not your thread and I don't see any out of the way smack or anything, so good luck with that.
You guys looked like you had a decent system running, but I suppose as long as everything is running smoothly, then it works. Get a hick up and its time to bury your head in the sand and hope it all goes away. Good business practice, hope it works out for you.
Totally agree with this guy aswell.
Bad play on the owners side. you want to do that sort of business, Get the proper security. If you can't prove that this guy got scammed then you should close down till you can prove that no one else will.
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uoY delliK
DOA POKER
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Posted - 2008.06.17 12:11:00 -
[55]
Not to thread hi-jack, but... There is one simple way to avoid this ever happening to you. DOA POKER (ingame chat) now has new software, with password protected user names, and ip logs of all events.
The new software also offers more options... Come on by and check us out.
Best thing to happen to poker for isk, since the creation of Eve!
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Zaknussem
The Ironbreakers
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Posted - 2008.06.17 12:41:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste But I will never put myself into a position to play perfectly into the hands of someone trying to harm me or my business as has happened to me at times in the past.
Regardless of whether your conspiracy theory holds water or not, it's already Too Late, thanks to your actions, or lack of them. The "terrorists" have already won.
Quote: So, feel however you do about this, I have made my judgment on this issue (as I always do) and life will go on. Some people will forget about this tomorrow, others will be unhappy, and EOH will still be there.
As a final note, a customer having issues with our services is not an event, and should not have its own thread. I am going to ask the moderators to lock this, and I would like further discussion to continue in our actual service thread. I will even link this thread in that one once this is locked simple for bookkeeping. Cheers and goodnight.
Wow. I haven't seen anyone think so highly of him/herself in an Internet game since...when, ever. You're just a bloke that runs an online poker game (badly, I may add, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist) and you think of yourself as some kind of royalty?
Also, has anyone checked the legality of running a poker game within EvE? It stands to reason that EvE, being an Icelandic game made by an Icelandic company that's stationed in Iceland, would have to follow Icelandic laws, correct? Well, gambling is illegal in Iceland. Has CCP looked into this? |
TheEnlightened
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Posted - 2008.06.17 19:04:00 -
[57]
lol. i would imagine at least that 'gambling' has to involve money. since there is no way to turn isk into money, i think we're safe legally. as for glicia, i'm very sad to hear this, i would be pretty p/o'd if this were me too... selene makes a couple good points and then shoots herself in the foot a few times with that post. ouch. good thing she doesent keep her pocketbook in her shoe hey guys since that seems intact. (lol) for a person who considers themselves a business owner selene clearly doesent understand the value of clientele relations and should have immediately paid out to avoid a further bad rep.
allow me to close by making an analogy to fast food... if McDonalds took my money and didnt give me a cheeseburger, i'd probably go elsewhere next time i was munchin out mmkay??
Selene: If you want to remain +10 standings in the eyes of your clientele, I'd suggest you develop a better customer support department. Or at least include toys with your meals. yarr.
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TheEnlightened
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Posted - 2008.06.17 19:23:00 -
[58]
Selene's post (unrelated thread) Thanks for the kind words.
As usual, we are nothing without our players, so please let us know what you think and how we can improve. We are limited by software and other conditions, but it never hurts to ask or discuss.
hmm... isint this interesting... dictionary.com for the word 'integrity' should shed some light on the situation.
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TomHorn
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Posted - 2008.06.17 20:01:00 -
[59]
Ive played at "eve online holdem" for i think nearly 7months and i have to say they are very reputable and trustworthy organisation.
I can see how someone could do this having played many times at eve online holdem and used the poker mavens software but ive never heard of this scam in all the time ive played and been a banker there.
Clearly this scam was done not to make isk,but as a personal attack on the channel or selene.
Because even if the impersonator had won, the winnings gets sent by the banker to the eve online char that sends the money.
As someone previously said in this thread the gilca playing the game played very strangley going allin until he finally lucked out and lost all the chips.
Its shame the players and bankers didnt seem to realise something was not quite right and have the game cancelled and a refund to all players.
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Killer Kelly
Allied Tactical Unit Scalar Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.17 20:20:00 -
[60]
Call 1-800-GAMBLER ___________ I Get Money in the Scalar Federation |
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