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Ankhesentapemkah
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:29:00 -
[1]
As predicted, it took less than a week to achieve the maximum faction warfare rank (Divine Commodore), for the Amarr Empire in this case.
Screenshot
Here are the interesting facts: 111 faction warfare complexes were captured in the process, almost all of them defensively. Due to all the promotions, my Amarr standing raised from 0.55 to 7.16. It took 6 days to achieve this rank. Grouping up was not required to capture the plexes. Killing people was not required to capture the plexes. Almost everything was captured with a ship+fitting worth less than 100k.
I did not kill anyone in the process, although I have fired on some people to scare them off. Your new Divine Commodore is a moral objectionist.
While I did a lot of the work by myself, this task wouldn't have been accomplished as fast without: Daraasi, Plausible, KC51, Lernaeus and Rabbi Godzilla for the intel and teamwork.
Special thanks to: DanFrazer for contributing hundreds ships for the Amarr cause, this guy deserves a medal. Laerise and the people of PIE for a nice raid into Minmatar space.
Amarr Victor, hehe
---
Thanks for all that supported me. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:33:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Wet Ferret on 18/06/2008 02:34:38 How did this affect your faction (standings) with the other empires?
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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Ankhesentapemkah
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:35:00 -
[3]
Sisters of Eve went from 5.10 to 2.93 Gallente went from 3.23 to 0.97 Minmatar went from 0.73 to -3.37
Not that bad, I'd say. ---
Thanks for all that supported me. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you.
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Lady Starfire
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:38:00 -
[4]
Your worthless and just proved faction warfare ranks are worthless thanks for proving it. It's called warfare not pacifist circle jerk.
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Daraasi
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:39:00 -
[5]
Lets face it, you totally outclassed me on this one.
35 Complexes to go.
See you in the bleaks o7
Jovia Delenda Est. |
Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:42:00 -
[6]
Nice! Congrats!
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flashfreaking
LFC Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lady Starfire Your worthless and just proved faction warfare ranks are worthless thanks for proving it. It's called warfare not pacifist circle jerk.
Looks like somebody is jealous :D Disallowed sig graphic. Send an e-mail to [email protected] when it meets the forum signature guidelines. ~Saint |
Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:43:00 -
[8]
That seems a bit fast.
Oh well, enjoy your new career in anchoring high sec POSes in Amarr space. ___________________________________________
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Ankhesentapemkah
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lady Starfire Your worthless and just proved faction warfare ranks are worthless thanks for proving it. It's called warfare not pacifist circle jerk.
Let's face it, the player will ALWAYS find the shortest way to the cheese.
And yes, this was done, in this nonviolent manner, to prove a point regarding the Faction Warfare game mechanics. Remember my little speech that Faction Warfare should be interesting for all types of players? Well currently, it's not very interesting, is it? And what better way to prove it would be to run the course myself? When I meet with CCP in a few days, at least I have some specific insights on this matter. ---
Thanks for all that supported me. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you.
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:48:00 -
[10]
Yeah, people always do this sort of stuff in every game, and the devs get some insight from it. There were some youtube videons circulating a while back, about some guy in WoW going from level 1 to level 70 (max level) in 2 days.
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Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Faction Warfare should be interesting for all types of players?
If you don't want warfare, why are you participating in faction warfare. Reading issues? Faction WARFARE, not faction carebearing.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Bad Harlequin
Chiroptera Factor
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:48:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 18/06/2008 02:50:10 Oof. Well demonstrated
Some important info i'd be interested in is time spent ingame, best guesstimate? Of the 6 days, how many hours / day were involved? I've a feeling it's going to be depressingly low...
Originally by: Cpt Branko
If you don't want warfare, why are you participating in faction warfare. Reading issues? Faction WARFARE, not faction carebearing.
Touch a nerve there? Geez, calm down. An experiment was run and the results presented. Now put your toys back in the pram.
-----
-- we all live in a yellow subroutine -- |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:50:00 -
[13]
congrats
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Mr Friendly
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lady Starfire Your worthless and just proved faction warfare ranks are worthless thanks for proving it. It's called warfare not pacifist circle jerk.
wat
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Ankhesentapemkah
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:53:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Bad Harlequin Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 18/06/2008 02:50:10 Oof. Well demonstrated Some important info i'd be interested in is time spent ingame, best guesstimate? Of the 6 days, how many hours / day were involved? I've a feeling it's going to be depressingly low...
Quite a lot but for the exact amount I have to dig through the standing history logs.
Let's just say I did do some normal RL obligations such as part-time work and attending birthday party, besides Eve, but that I only got an average of 4 hours of sleep a day. It is 4.52 in the morning locally, that sais enough I think.
---
Thanks for all that supported me. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you.
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:53:00 -
[16]
Ankhesentapemkah just proved to me with this thread that they deserve a place on the CSM.
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Nynaeve Ares
Animus Incarnate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:53:00 -
[17]
There really is no cheese if it's this easy, people would just be wasting time to get a hollow rank.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:53:00 -
[18]
Well done :)
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Matthew Cooper
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lady Starfire Your worthless and just proved faction warfare ranks are worthless thanks for proving it. It's called warfare not pacifist circle jerk.
Plenty of NPCs were killed to reach this goal I'm sure. They're people too you know!
Originally by: Tarminic Stop posting with your alt Kieron.
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ExcellciuM
Exair Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:54:00 -
[20]
Some caldari have already done this, but they didn't need to write out a whole circle jerk thread about it, how much attention do you need before your head explodes?
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Yarr2K
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:56:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton congrats
Yeah was gonna say that FW is not about what ever rank you achive but how much satisfiying pew pew you can get into. Look for the rank structure to change alot over the coming months.
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Bad Harlequin
Chiroptera Factor
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ExcellciuM Some caldari have already done this, but they didn't need to write out a whole circle jerk thread about it, how much attention do you need before your head explodes?
less than you? -----
-- we all live in a yellow subroutine -- |
Nynaeve Ares
Animus Incarnate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Well done :)
Look at dat fuggen grooming.
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White Ronin
Screenout
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:58:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Ankhesentapemkah just proved to me with this thread that they deserve a place on the CSM.
Agreed. And now that you have proof, what will you suggest be done to make it better?
--------------------------------------------- For better or worse, drones are the future of humanity. Their choice, not ours. |
Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:59:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 18/06/2008 03:00:28 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 18/06/2008 02:59:57
Originally by: Bad Harlequin
Originally by: Cpt Branko
If you don't want warfare, why are you participating in faction warfare. Reading issues? Faction WARFARE, not faction carebearing.
Touch a nerve there? Geez, calm down. An experiment was run and the results presented. Now put your toys back in the pram.
I was reffering to the comment that 'faction warfare should be interesting to all sorts of players'. Which it shouldn't. It should be interesting to people interested in warfare, not carebearing.
Ranks not requiring kills is obviously bogus, anyway.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Yarr2K
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:05:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Ranks not requiring kills is obviously bogus, anyway.
Tbh I'm not convinced that anyone really cares about the ranks. So far everyone I've run across just wants to pew pew and damn the objectives.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:08:00 -
[27]
Ankhesentapemkah,
Get back to work in CSM and make EVE better now - damn it. Your life belongs to the public now, no promoting FW!!!
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Viktor Konstantine
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:08:00 -
[28]
WAR IS COM--- oops nm lolz
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Thaylon Sen
Selectus Pravus Lupus
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:09:00 -
[29]
They may just be eye candy, but its very dispointing their so easy to get. Kudos was their only value.
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Jmanis Catharg
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:09:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 18/06/2008 03:11:01
Quote:
Tbh I'm not convinced that anyone really cares about the ranks. So far everyone I've run across just wants to pew pew and damn the objectives.
^^ this.
Personally, for no reward or any such result, I'm crawling to those standings in my own 4-hours-a week timeframe, and I don't mind that. I've ground level 4 missions to the point that my Caldari State standing is above 8.
What I find particularly interesting is that FW brought a sudden wave of PvP into EVE, yet the PVP arising is a result of nothing new brought on by Empyrean age, except the fact it let you join a side at war with two others without having to deal with the politics.
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:33:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton congrats
Don't you mean... "This doesn't make you any less of a tool"
But seriously, not even one kill to help out your faction is rather worthless. ------------
Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:33:00 -
[32]
Originally by: White Ronin
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Ankhesentapemkah just proved to me with this thread that they deserve a place on the CSM.
Agreed. And now that you have proof, what will you suggest be done to make it better?
Beats the hell out of me.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:43:00 -
[33]
Ankh managed to get away from my boys, a good evasive carebear
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iudex
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:51:00 -
[34]
Gratz, you're the second one, yesterday we had the first caldari bregadier general.
Looks like it's possible to gain ranks fast. Now even the missions give a bigger faction standing boost than at the beginning (standing boost seems to increase as part of time-based reward balancing), so gaining ranks did not become a longterm goal like i hoped.
_________________________________________ Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.50 // Angel Cartel +7.17 // Minmatar Republic -8.49 // Gallente Federation -9.53 Faction Warfare Rank: Lieutenant Colonel |
Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.18 04:05:00 -
[35]
Re: "pacifism."
I've played team- based shooters for years and I've always found situations where it can be better (due to communications or respawn mechanics or whatever) to evade an enemy than to kill him.
Yes, I know this isn't a shooter. Point is though, sneaky people often have tactical uses too and that's right and good IMO.
Still don't think you should be able to max out your rank that fast though. ___________________________________________
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Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
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Posted - 2008.06.18 04:07:00 -
[36]
Get any shiny medals to show off in Ambulation? __________________________________________________
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
Mazakura
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.06.18 04:15:00 -
[37]
What the hell are you guys talking about. RANKS SHOULD BE WORTHLESS. In fact they never should have put ranks into this FW. This is not WoW and frankly the fact that CCP did put ranks into the game makes me a little sick.
If they ever have ranks get you ships and/or gear they are just one step away from driving eve into the ground.
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Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2008.06.18 04:40:00 -
[38]
Lol what a joke. Ranks should be related to the number of enemy player ships downed. Not how much of a carebear some inbred can be for 2 weeks.
"Men are going to die... and i'm going to kill them" |
Siriyana
Astrum Contract Services Group
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Posted - 2008.06.18 04:57:00 -
[39]
I hate to break it to you guys, but there's a lot more to warfare than just pew pew.
The scout that never gets on a killmail watching the other side of a gate is just as involved in warfare as the person firing the gun at the target he called out. And the person building you the ship to fight with is just as much a part of warfare. ----- CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group ACSG Open For Recruitment (AU/AsiaPac/Late Night PST) |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.18 05:00:00 -
[40]
Good work. Proves how worthless the ranks are tbh.
Faction warfare is a bit of a cheap ploy by CCP imho. Its fun to have lots of targets, and I'm sure that ranks are great to obtain for bragging rights, but the whole system seems to have been done on the cheap.
Compare this release (6 months of waiting) to say Red Moon Rising, or Trinity and the amount of new stuff is pretty pathetic.
It feels more like a CCP cash in trying to get more book sales than giving the game world something new and dynamic. Player created missions and content is something exciting they 'could' have done with FW, but I doubt they'll get there in another 20 years at this rate.
/moan hat off
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Jmanis Catharg
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 05:04:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Still don't think you should be able to max out your rank that fast though. Razz
Wouldn't be the case if everyone didn't blob in tama, and actually hung back home in different systems,, say,, protecting them from the enemy.
What I do disagree with though is standing gains for defensively capturing points. Maybe for reclaiming a point off an enemy who captured it previously, but definately not just for finding a point in allied space and 'capturing' it.
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.18 05:15:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Miz Cenuij Lol what a joke. Ranks should be related to the number of enemy player ships downed. Not how much of a carebear some inbred can be for 2 weeks.
Fine then. No remote repping for you, no points or e- peen in it. ___________________________________________
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Mad Maynard
Figurehead Inc
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Posted - 2008.06.18 05:43:00 -
[43]
If anyone is interested, I happen to have the frozen corpse of Ankhesentapemkah, first Divine Commodore of the Amarr Empire and member of CSM. Let me know if anyone is sick enough to want it.
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Horus Vek
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Posted - 2008.06.18 06:43:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Your new Divine Commodore is a moral objectionist.
you mean a coward?
heh heh, expected nothing less from an amarr :P
(Minmatar forthe win!)
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notdiscostu
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:12:00 -
[45]
All this proves is what we already knew: that rankings in FW are useless at present. And to be honest, if it took 6 days worth of 15ish hours of playing eve, the bar is probably a little low to reach the rank attained.
Bottom line? Ankseasdfpnqwerpoinqertypingrandomletters proves a point, but not the point she wanted to. Its not that it offers nothing for carebears, hell, she proved that a pure carebear can, without kiling a single person, succeed in faction warfare. She proved that the ranks are useless. Nothing more.
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ExcellciuM
Exair Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:19:00 -
[46]
Hey look, my post got deleted, ill type it again.
A few others have already done this and they didn't have to write out a whole Circle Jerk thread about it. How much attention do you really need?
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:26:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Originally by: Bad Harlequin Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 18/06/2008 02:50:10 Oof. Well demonstrated Some important info i'd be interested in is time spent ingame, best guesstimate? Of the 6 days, how many hours / day were involved? I've a feeling it's going to be depressingly low...
Quite a lot but for the exact amount I have to dig through the standing history logs.
Let's just say I did do some normal RL obligations such as part-time work and attending birthday party, besides Eve, but that I only got an average of 4 hours of sleep a day. It is 4.52 in the morning locally, that sais enough I think.
So this proves that if you become a 'basement child' and avoid as much social contact in RL as you can, you can 'clock' or get to 'end game' of something?
Genius.
Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Ryan Scouse'UK
omen.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:41:00 -
[48]
Well done Ankh -( ur name is hard & long )
Anyways grats on gettin to the top rank or whatever I not touched eve for about 2months summer & all that lark, I only read eve forums cant keep away it seems you answerd my question tho so I need not come back to eve just yet to think am missing anything,
no EVE related content in signature. ~Weatherman |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:46:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
And yes, this was done, in this nonviolent manner, to prove a point regarding the Faction Warfare game mechanics. Remember my little speech that Faction Warfare should be interesting for all types of players? Well currently, it's not very interesting, is it? And what better way to prove it would be to run the course myself? When I meet with CCP in a few days, at least I have some specific insights on this matter.
Huh? You proved that FW is not interesting when you CHOOSE it not to be. Was someone pointing a gun to your head and telling you not to join up in a fleet or start a fleet yourself or go on the offensive? Did the battleield intelligence page not give you nearby hostile systems to attack? Are you banned from roaming around looking for enemies?
You sound extremely arrogant.
If FW sucks so bad then how about you add some suggestions? How about you make your own MMORPG if you are such a genius?
So if I play Bioshock and I decide to just run around in a circle and no nothing, that means Bioshock is broken? Or is it because I'm an idiot and am not playing the game how it was intended which has been CLEARLY spelled out in numerous developer blogs and a player guide that is incredibly well-written.
Please, is this what we get with CSM reps? You comment on game mechanics which you don't even bother to understand what CCP intends and then circle jerk (hi jade) on the forums that you are so l33t and we are so suxxor. If you were so 'l33t' you would know that CCP added in ranks without putting in the rewards and will have to tweak how much an action in FW gives you points towards ranking. CCP is aware on this and will add it in later, they have already told us this so you whine is terrible.
&(*% OFF CSM. --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Keeves
Sexy Pirate Club
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:52:00 -
[50]
Wow, people sure can be *******s in this thread. Hey Fukheads, if someone wants to be a "carebear" then grow the maturity to let them be wtf they want in this sandbox mmo... christ...
As for the ranks, when i was testing it on SiSi i was very annoyed when i got 3 of the 10 (?) ranks in like 4 or 5 capped complexes... I would like it better if you see a "Divine Commodore" and think "Holy **** that guy has been in faction warfare for a long time". Not something like 6 days...
Oh and ranks up for kills would be nice too.
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Stevens
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.18 07:54:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
And yes, this was done, in this nonviolent manner, to prove a point regarding the Faction Warfare game mechanics. Remember my little speech that Faction Warfare should be interesting for all types of players? Well currently, it's not very interesting, is it? And what better way to prove it would be to run the course myself? When I meet with CCP in a few days, at least I have some specific insights on this matter.
Huh? You proved that FW is not interesting when you CHOOSE it not to be. Was someone pointing a gun to your head and telling you not to join up in a fleet or start a fleet yourself or go on the offensive? Did the battleield intelligence page not give you nearby hostile systems to attack? Are you banned from roaming around looking for enemies?
You sound extremely arrogant.
If FW sucks so bad then how about you add some suggestions? How about you make your own MMORPG if you are such a genius?
So if I play Bioshock and I decide to just run around in a circle and no nothing, that means Bioshock is broken? Or is it because I'm an idiot and am not playing the game how it was intended which has been CLEARLY spelled out in numerous developer blogs and a player guide that is incredibly well-written.
Please, is this what we get with CSM reps? You comment on game mechanics which you don't even bother to understand what CCP intends and then circle jerk (hi jade) on the forums that you are so l33t and we are so suxxor. If you were so 'l33t' you would know that CCP added in ranks without putting in the rewards and will have to tweak how much an action in FW gives you points towards ranking. CCP is aware on this and will add it in later, they have already told us this so you whine is terrible.
You make a train load of good points that will be ignored by him like every one else pointing out it isn't broke if you choose not be part of it.
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Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2008.06.18 08:05:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Miz Cenuij Lol what a joke. Ranks should be related to the number of enemy player ships downed. Not how much of a carebear some inbred can be for 2 weeks.
Fine then. No remote repping for you, no points or e- peen in it.
Lol noob, I have thousands of solo kills, frigs, hacs, bs, carriers etc posted on battleclinic. All without some noob remote repping me.
Wtf makes u think id let a remote repair mod from a worthless nubbin like u even touch Battlestar Miz? If u so much as repped 1HP, i'd wtf put the smackdown on u just to make myself feel clean again.
Inbreds like u hvd far too much self esteem these days.
"Men are going to die... and i'm going to kill them" |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2008.06.18 08:09:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 18/06/2008 08:10:35
Originally by: Vaal Erit
So if I play Bioshock and I decide to just run around in a circle and no nothing, that means Bioshock is broken?
OT, but Bioshock *was* broken. It failed in almost all things where the games it stole it's ideas from succeeded. Bioshock was ****. Huge disappointment.
Oh, and if someone can get the highest rank in 6 days, yeah, that's ridiculously easy. You can't get, say, standings for BS bpc offers in 6 days, why can you get the highest FW rank in that time?
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Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2008.06.18 08:10:00 -
[54]
All hail the OP! Lame carebear of the week! You get to wear the "special" hat.
"Men are going to die... and i'm going to kill them" |
Fifinella
Fringe Exploration And Salvage Trust
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Posted - 2008.06.18 08:17:00 -
[55]
It's nice to see the months I spent grinding faction standing for POS anchoring and whatnot weren't wasted.
Wait, did I just say "weren't"? I meant to say "were". Easy typo to make.
And to top it off, doing that the old-fashioned way I took a WORSE standings hit with other factions than you did doing it the FW way.
Because, you know, I wasn't at war with those factions like you were.
It all makes sense. In Bizarroworld.
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.18 08:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Miz Cenuij Basically I'm a total fggt.
Well, that settles that then I expect. ___________________________________________
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cal nereus
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.18 08:32:00 -
[57]
I liked playing with Lego blocks as a child. You can take seemingly uninteresting blocks and put them together in various combinations to create nearly limitless possibilities.
At first, this seems totally unrelated to the OP, but in fact, I have a point to make: although there are certain mechanics and limitations to what you can do in Eve Online, it's still a game created by the players. Faction Warfare is what YOU make of it. You haven't been handed a finished product. You, the player, are developing the product as you play, and what you get is what you make. If you make it crappy, it'll be crappy. But if you make it awesome, it'll be awesome. --- Earning Isk Basic Skills
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Death4free
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.18 08:39:00 -
[58]
*OT, but Bioshock *was* broken. It failed in almost all things where the games it stole it's ideas from succeeded. Bioshock was ****. Huge disappointment.*
go and die in a corner, bioshock was gods gift to gamers
Eve information kiosk
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Tyson Gallane
Political Warfare Executive
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Posted - 2008.06.18 08:48:00 -
[59]
Can we please not shoot the messenger here. As I read it, Ankh got to top rank to prove that :
a) It is too easy b) It doesn't actually require you to be involved in the war.
Both are very good points, which need to be brought to CCP. I say good job.
*salutes*
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Gaius Kador
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 08:58:00 -
[60]
To each his (her) own.
Congrats and well done Ankh. ----------------------------------------------
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Merdaneth
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 09:03:00 -
[61]
Why is any suprised.
Ranks are an NPC-derived statistic. As long as you base ranks on interaction with NPCs, people can and will find optimal methods to increase/max them.
As long as you have NPC related mechanics anywhere in the mix, you will get abusable mechanics, because (most) NPC related mechanics lack to capacity to adapt dynamically. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Ethaet
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 09:08:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Mazakura What the hell are you guys talking about. RANKS SHOULD BE WORTHLESS. In fact they never should have put ranks into this FW. This is not WoW and frankly the fact that CCP did put ranks into the game makes me a little sick.
If they ever have ranks get you ships and/or gear they are just one step away from driving eve into the ground.
This. -------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature. There you go. Now that wasn't so hard |
Carniflex
Fallout Research Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 09:08:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 18/06/2008 08:10:35
Originally by: Vaal Erit
So if I play Bioshock and I decide to just run around in a circle and no nothing, that means Bioshock is broken?
OT, but Bioshock *was* broken. It failed in almost all things where the games it stole it's ideas from succeeded. Bioshock was ****. Huge disappointment.
Oh, and if someone can get the highest rank in 6 days, yeah, that's ridiculously easy. You can't get, say, standings for BS bpc offers in 6 days, why can you get the highest FW rank in that time?
You can get to best lev 4 combat agents in faction in 6 days starting from -1.xx faction standings with them and some slight negative standings with their navy corp and no other standings for corps in that faction. I know, bcos I have done it for minmatar reaching that emolgranlan L4Q18 agent in that timeframe. In that light it does not seem too surprising considering that one starts from positive faction and zero corp stadnings in this case and does need to slave for extended periods for low level low quality agents to gain acsess to something that grants 'proper' rewards.
However as far as 'too easy' rants go. If it's that easy go and do it yourself also. You will find out soon enough that doing something for a week straight like there is no tomorrow is not as easy as it sounds.
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ExcellciuM
Exair Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.18 09:25:00 -
[64]
Originally by: ExcellciuM This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.
Regards, The EVE Online Moderation team
Circlejerk
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Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 09:34:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Carniflex
However as far as 'too easy' rants go. If it's that easy go and do it yourself also. You will find out soon enough that doing something for a week straight like there is no tomorrow is not as easy as it sounds.
That's certainly true. Nevertheless, I'm guessing this means in a short amount of time there will be loads of highest rank militia on all sides, which is a bit silly, imo. For comparison, how often do you see someone with 10.0 faction standing?
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Tommy Reslin
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.06.18 09:37:00 -
[66]
I don't think the difficulty or time should be increased. I'll probably have the highest rank by the end of this week. Why am I stating this? Because I'm sure that if they increase the time it takes to make the rank I'll already have it by the time they increase. So if they make it longer and give out good rewards those of us that made the rank easily will get rewards that others will have to work two or three times harder for.
It's because of this that I believe that the ranks should remain where they are. I believe that the ranks should offer minor things. Nothing special like ships etc. Perhaps they should allow you to purchase cheap skill books or maybe cheaper ammo/armor repairs. Something simple but adds up to a lot in the long run.
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Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.18 09:41:00 -
[67]
Originally by: techzer0
But seriously, not even one kill to help out your faction is rather worthless.
our killboard shows Ankhesentapemkah did get on a killmail (1 rifter, scoring 37% of the damage). Not entirely a carebear after all it seems, but none of her lossmails show a scram. a WCS or two, but no scram. We come for our people |
Seviere
XBeyond
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 09:48:00 -
[68]
Kinda disturbing that one can get the higher rank without even making a pvp kill... wasn't FW mainly about the pvp |
Venkul Mul
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 09:53:00 -
[69]
Pyramid quote removed.Applebabe
You have thousand of shuttles/frigates kills in a smartbombing mothership in kow sec (Rancer). No wonder you didn't needed remote repping. All that you needed was your cyno alt to get out of dodge if something treatening was coming.
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Esmenet
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 10:05:00 -
[70]
Wa..... Carebears is coming!
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.18 10:14:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Seviere Kinda disturbing that one can get the higher rank without even making a pvp kill... wasn't FW mainly about the pvp
It's an objective- based gametype, not team deathmatch -- or at least that's what it looks like to me. You score in those types of games by achieving objectives, not by racking up kills. It's just that killing lots of guys presumably makes the objectives easier to do. Pretty standard game design really.
Looking at it again though, if she basically hoed up a bunch of points by running uncontested plexes in systems her faction safely owns, well, that's a flaw in the scoring system and it needs addressing. ___________________________________________
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Napro
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Posted - 2008.06.18 10:15:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Seviere Kinda disturbing that one can get the higher rank without even making a pvp kill... wasn't FW mainly about the pvp
uh no
Why does everyone seem to think a content update can only add new features for one group of people?
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ShardowRhino
Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.06.18 10:16:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Thaylon Sen They may just be eye candy, but its very dispointing their so easy to get. Kudos was their only value.
wow guess i shouldnt feel like i was left in the dust if they are so easy to get. Ranks deffinitely require a change. theres gotta be a challenge for a rank to mean anything. By that i mean there should have to be some pvp since it is "warfare",right?
I hope ccp tweaks things so it takes a LOT more time to get the highest rank and do it quickly. Dont want to see everyone and their mother with the max rank,ccp change the rank system all before i get some decent amount of time to play. no offense to the guy or anyone else but i hope ccp tweaks the system and adjusts the ranks of players accordingly instead of just letting them have it.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.06.18 10:16:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Seviere Kinda disturbing that one can get the higher rank without even making a pvp kill... wasn't FW mainly about the pvp
Is war, in general, all about the PvP?
Watching people freak out about a completely worthless title is amusing, at any rate. The personal attacks were a nice touch, too. The EVE forum community doesn't disappoint!
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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Seviere
XBeyond
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Posted - 2008.06.18 10:18:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Napro
Originally by: Seviere Kinda disturbing that one can get the higher rank without even making a pvp kill... wasn't FW mainly about the pvp
uh no
Why does everyone seem to think a content update can only add new features for one group of people?
She has done well for her faction, making mishs in enemy territory is risky. I have no problems with that but I do have problems with the fact that my corp m8 makes 15 solo kills in 2 days and is still the lowest rank. Something doesn't seem well ballanced to me. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 10:24:00 -
[76]
It was already my experience on the test server that you simply got too much of a standing boost for capturing sites. Also, you got standing boost for capturing sites in "own" systems.
The only thing you have to do to get your rank up quick, is to go and scan for conquerable sites in one of your own factions "contested" system and capture them all day long. You will not even get aggression from the NPC's.
My suggestions for change would be 1) Lower standing gain from capturing sites 2) Give no standing gain for capturing sites in systems with friendly occupancy ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute |
ShardowRhino
Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.06.18 10:27:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Napro
Originally by: Seviere Kinda disturbing that one can get the higher rank without even making a pvp kill... wasn't FW mainly about the pvp
uh no
Why does everyone seem to think a content update can only add new features for one group of people?
2 words for you:
fac+tion 1 (fkshn) n. 1. A group of persons forming a cohesive, usually contentious minority within a larger group.
war+fare (w(rfGr) n. 1. a. The waging of war against an enemy; armed conflict.
I gotta suggest that ccp look at yes.. Planetside for a scoring system. youcould take bases all day long but earn zero points if you took it without a fight. The greater the number of hostiles that were fighting to defend a base(capture point) and the longer they fought the higher the points value for capturing the base.
in eve theres apparently nothing associated with rank. Right now thats a good thing. In PS if the same was true everyone w ould have an Orbital Strike which would be equal to a Titan DD every 3 hours. After 5 years theres a lot of people that have attained the rank for such but the vast majority are only a fraction of the way there.
Ranks should mean something,not free titans but something. Ranks should require a much greater amount of time and effort and pvp to reach. Without such they mean nothing. I know that some people will try to abuse their 100 accounts but it will only be so effective if players are willing to fight and shoot anything that moves.
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iudex
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 10:40:00 -
[78]
Why is there so much bitterness and hate in this thread ? Does Ankh have a swarm of haters following her and trolling her threads for whatever reasons, or are there really that many people with an emotional disturbance and an oversized ego, that can't accept that someone did something faster than themselves ? Why can't people just congratulate on the achievement, but have to rant ? If they consider ranks worthless, who are they to judge someone else who set up a goal to get the top rank and actually achieved something ?
_________________________________________ Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.50 // Angel Cartel +7.17 // Minmatar Republic -8.49 // Gallente Federation -9.53 Faction Warfare Rank: Lieutenant Colonel |
Doctor Mabuse
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 10:40:00 -
[79]
The solution is simple, do not allow a beacon to be captured while there are still enemy forces at that location.
Currently you can enter almost any beacon in a solo interceptor and speed tank the NPC damage whilst the timer ticks down, no team work or gang required, just pick up the points and move on to the next one. All of which makes little sense.
Judging by the strange intie fits the OP has lost recently, this is the method she used :)
Who's trip-trapping on my bridge? |
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 10:42:00 -
[80]
Originally by: techzer0 [ But seriously, not even one kill to help out your faction is rather worthless.
Actually, from a logical/fluff standpoint, killing an enemy ship means absolutely NOTHING, since war material is nearly limitless for all sides. So it's the blobs duking it out in Tama that are worthless in "helping out [their] faction", as you put it.
Deathmatch / free4all style of play is the simplest and most boring kind of PvP, regardless of platform (Eve/fps/sim/etc). Since Ankh could accomplish her objectives virtually uncontested, it means FW does not do enough to encourage objective based PvP. Perhaps the counterstrike in space lemmings are simply too many to steer towards a wider spectrum of pew pew, without actually forcing it.
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HakanSherif
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 10:45:00 -
[81]
Did it effect pirate factions standings aswell? Serpentis FTW.
Est Sularus oth Mithas |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.06.18 10:57:00 -
[82]
Okay, sincere question here.
Does capturing these points provide some benefit the faction as a whole? Or what does it actually accomplish?
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:00:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Wet Ferret Okay, sincere question here.
Does capturing these points provide some benefit the faction as a whole? Or what does it actually accomplish?
nothing. changes the "occupancy" which is pretty much RP fluff only.
people in FW are engaging in pew pew for fun for the most part. We come for our people |
fuze
InfoMorph Services Ltd
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:12:00 -
[84]
CCP got us here. They almost succeeded into making us believe a new addition in the game wasn't gimped when it was released.
GJ Ankh. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:14:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Fifinella It's nice to see the months I spent grinding faction standing for POS anchoring and whatnot weren't wasted.
You always had the option to pay someone else with the required standings to join your corp and temporarily kick the other members with bad standings. This should now become a great deal cheaper, if so many people are going to get such high standings.
Zzz research towers Direrie NEW: Liekuri
20:1 low-end compression |
Venkul Mul
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 11:14:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Wet Ferret Okay, sincere question here.
Does capturing these points provide some benefit the faction as a whole? Or what does it actually accomplish?
Capturing/defending complexes give points to system control. So it help the faction. Naturally there is the question if doing that in uncontested system give points. If so it should be changed.
I would be curious to know how much of the large batch of Caldari control points were done that way and why Gallente pilots aren't doing the same.
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4IROW
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:17:00 -
[87]
congrats to your rank but I hope CCP will change this... Getting the top rank should be a lot of work and there should be a system similar to BattleField2141.
There should be only ONE Divine Commodore (or other "top leader") and he would change every week (top scorer after a week). So basically, if you have obtained the highest rank, you can't just lean back but you have to continue to fight (or missionig or whatever) to remain in this position.
A similar process could be applied for the lower 2 or 3 ranks too!
This way, we won't have 1000 "super generals" after half a year.
Btw while I'd love to see that PvP get's rewarded, I think it would be exploited. If CCP decides to do this there should be a limit so if you kill the same player more than once per hour only one kill per hour will be counted to the ranking.
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Ralara
Vivicide
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:30:00 -
[88]
So you DO undock then?
Even though you're Amarr, I'll try and pod you :) --
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:32:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 18/06/2008 08:10:35
Originally by: Vaal Erit
So if I play Bioshock and I decide to just run around in a circle and no nothing, that means Bioshock is broken?
OT, but Bioshock *was* broken. It failed in almost all things where the games it stole it's ideas from succeeded. Bioshock was ****. Huge disappointment.
Oh, and if someone can get the highest rank in 6 days, yeah, that's ridiculously easy. You can't get, say, standings for BS bpc offers in 6 days, why can you get the highest FW rank in that time?
You can get to best lev 4 combat agents in faction in 6 days starting from -1.xx faction standings with them and some slight negative standings with their navy corp and no other standings for corps in that faction. I know, bcos I have done it for minmatar reaching that emolgranlan L4Q18 agent in that timeframe. In that light it does not seem too surprising considering that one starts from positive faction and zero corp stadnings in this case and does need to slave for extended periods for low level low quality agents to gain acsess to something that grants 'proper' rewards.
However as far as 'too easy' rants go. If it's that easy go and do it yourself also. You will find out soon enough that doing something for a week straight like there is no tomorrow is not as easy as it sounds.
They are talking about state standings, which are significantly harder to obtain than corp standings. ==================================================
I should really get a sig. |
Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:37:00 -
[90]
Does the title persist after you leave the militia, if so, how long will it take you to get top rank with all 4 factions? ==================================================
I should really get a sig. |
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:53:00 -
[91]
Originally by: iudex Why is there so much bitterness and hate in this thread?
It's because they imagine that CCP will surely nerf it now because she posted (as if they don't have logs / can't see it's too easy unless a player posts it), and so they won't be able to get to max rank like she did.
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ollobrains2
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:58:00 -
[92]
lower the gain for capturing bunkers, raise the amount of rats and see what else can be tweaked
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Thirzarr
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:59:00 -
[93]
I think its a fine piece of CSM work right there:
Finding something horribly close to an exploit (sry, harsh word, but getting max rank without any "real" pvp ) and demonstrating that its not just a theory is definately a way to get some fokus to it.
Good job at giving CCP something to undo and redo to make it be worth something.
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Illuvian
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:21:00 -
[94]
Originally by: ollobrains2 lower the gain for capturing bunkers, raise the amount of rats and see what else can be tweaked
Nah, I say we keep everything the same. Except announce in the militia channel anytime an opposing force enters a capture point.
Of course the Amarr like Ankh will still run away at the slightest sign of trouble and try to turn the greatest thing that has happened to PvP in this game to the next exploit for exploitative carebears.
Metus improbos compescit, non clementia. It is fear, not kindness that restrains the wicked. |
FlameGlow
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:27:00 -
[95]
1. Get top rank for Amarr 2. Get top rank for Caldari 3. Run missions for SOE to get to 0.5 with Gallente/Minmatar 4. Get top rank for Gallente 5. Get top rank for Minmatar 6. Profit anchoring POSes anywhere in highsec!
Haven't checked the maths but I think getting about 5.5 faction standing to all empires is possible. Also I wonder if you're demoted for losing stand to militia corp and get faction boost when promoted again Faction BS BP farming anyone?
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:47:00 -
[96]
You've won EVE?
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Carniflex
Fallout Research Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 13:23:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor
They are talking about state standings, which are significantly harder to obtain than corp standings.
Well militia ranks are given for militia corp standings. Increased faction standings are just side effect of gaining militia next rank once per character career. And I was more referring to pint that one does not need to grind 'low level' content before gaining acsess to content that gives 'proper' rewards but can instead immediately hit the complexses giving 'reasonable' standings gains towards that corporation.
In my minmatar example longest part was gaining acsess to lev 3 agents, once there I was on best lev 4 in approx a day. Grinding missions like there is no tomorrow ofc meaning no looting and just speedrunning them in good ship with good skills.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.18 14:06:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Mazakura What the hell are you guys talking about. RANKS SHOULD BE WORTHLESS. In fact they never should have put ranks into this FW. This is not WoW and frankly the fact that CCP did put ranks into the game makes me a little sick.
If they ever have ranks get you ships and/or gear they are just one step away from driving eve into the ground.
RIIIIIGHT ranks = WoW for sure.
I mean the idea of gatering something to get somethign else is WOW... oh wait..**** you need isk! isk is honor! oh god get rid of isk!
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.18 14:08:00 -
[99]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 18/06/2008 14:11:32
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Seviere Kinda disturbing that one can get the higher rank without even making a pvp kill... wasn't FW mainly about the pvp
It's an objective- based gametype, not team deathmatch -- or at least that's what it looks like to me. You score in those types of games by achieving objectives, not by racking up kills. It's just that killing lots of guys presumably makes the objectives easier to do. Pretty standard game design really.
Looking at it again though, if she basically hoed up a bunch of points by running uncontested plexes in systems her faction safely owns, well, that's a flaw in the scoring system and it needs addressing.
Indeed the current system is broken as all hell. I mean it's wierd FW missons ive little isk and LP for the risk and yet for no risk you can gain one of the highest ranks.
also to the OP you should quit the corp and go join the other mitilitias now get rank 10 for all 4!
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Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.18 14:21:00 -
[100]
I too am disappointed that max rank can be acheived so quickly. The net result is that the ranks are meaningless, even as eye candy, because everyone will have them all.
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Rhanna Khurin
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.06.18 14:34:00 -
[101]
Hmm, forgive me if this question has been asked before, but i assume there is a limit on how many people can achieve the highest ranks to stop everyone from being a "divine commodore" and thus have more chiefs than indians syndrome.
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Jenny Spitfire
LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:08:00 -
[102]
Gratz Ankeh. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Go vote! Put voice for silent majority. LOVE PVP, HATE grief |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:33:00 -
[103]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Indeed the current system is broken as all hell. I mean it's wierd FW missons ive little isk and LP for the risk and yet for no risk you can gain one of the highest ranks.
No risk? Then why is there talk of her wrecks and losses in this thread?
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:34:00 -
[104]
Quote: Killing people was not required to capture the plexes. Almost everything was captured with a ship+fitting worth less than 100k.
I did not kill anyone in the process, although I have fired on some people to scare them off.
What the...Minmatar, you fail horribly. It sounds like you let 111 complexes that *you started* get re-captured without any fight whatsoever.
Anyway, call it 120 plexes over 6 days, that's 20 plexes a day. 30 min to a plex is 600 minutes per day, or Ten hours per day for 6 days doing nothing but capping plexes
Your dedication is quite astounding.
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:42:00 -
[105]
Quote: Kinda disturbing that one can get the higher rank without even making a pvp kill... wasn't FW mainly about the pvp
It's only PvP if the other guy shows up for the fight. Minmatar didn't show up...111 times in a row. Shame on you Minmatar. What are you guys doing???
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Qduhaf
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:43:00 -
[106]
Ankhesentapemkah - say your CSM recruiting video, and glad that you are dedicated to this game and working with CCP to make it better for all players. Not sure that you would listen but my suggestion that would help put the war into FW, and make fun, engaging PVP accessible to the average person would be that missions in FW should be PVP based, and limited in some way to numbers and types of ships.
I'd propose several mechanisms put in place to make this happen:
1)Every mission needs 2 parties to make it happen (eg, 1 caldari, 1 gallente): This would not only ensure that it was PVP focused but also balance out the sides (if everyone is caldari, then there wouldnÆt be missions for them as there were no gallente sides)
2)Mission sends both parties to a contested system victory point, those victory points can not be scanned out, nor can ships/drones, etc be scanned out within them. One side is the defender, the other the attacker.
3)Each mission/side has a point structure, allowable ship types and a recommended and maximum number of allowable points. Assume that Level 1 missions are for tech 1 or 2 frigs and 4 players, level 2 are for tech 1 or 2 frigs tech 1 cruisers and tech 1 battlecruisers/battleships and 8 players, level 3 are for all ship types, 8 players and level 4 for all tech 1 and 2 battleship and below and 32 players (fleet warfare). These point structures change by mission, and arenÆt always the same on each side so no ôwinningö formulas (ie, dual guardian for the slow painful win), and each side is given an indication of what they will face based on how the points are allocated, of course instead of 4 interceptors, one side might take 8 noob ships that total out to the same points so you really wonÆt know how many or what ships you will face.
4)Winning side gets rewards, based upon 2 factors: a) total point value of their ships that entered the victory point with 0 reward if exceeded max allowed points and b) the ranks of the opposing playerÆs team. This means you would get a lot more rewards for beating top ranked players with a small group, less if you won with a large group against noobs and nothing if you blobbed the victory point.
5) losing side lose LPs, but only if the victor stayed within the points allotment.
Of course either side could camp the gates in between, etc but at least this would guarantee that the end PVP result would be what I think most new and older players regard as fun.
Maybe if have the control points were spawned out of PVP missions as above, and half as they are today then it would still leave play for those that don't want to live a structured life.
Also any officer ranks should only be achieved via PVP missions LPs, and can be take away. So you could do what you did and become the highest enlisted rank, but to be an officer you have to have and maintain a positive LP balance. They the ranks would be a true indicator of the players capabilities in an MMO scenario.
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:45:00 -
[107]
Oh also, capturing plexes does a lot more for your team than sitting in a blob gatecamping the opponents entry point into low sec, which is what most people seem to be going for. That doesn't get your side anything.
Capturing plexes helps your side gain control of the systems, which is the entire point behind factional warfare. It's safe to say no one helped their side as much as Ankh has, if you look at it purely by the numbers.
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Bellum Eternus
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:52:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah As predicted, it took less than a week to achieve the maximum faction warfare rank (Divine Commodore), for the Amarr Empire in this case.
Screenshot
Here are the interesting facts: 111 faction warfare complexes were captured in the process, almost all of them defensively. Due to all the promotions, my Amarr standing raised from 0.55 to 7.16. It took 6 days to achieve this rank. Grouping up was not required to capture the plexes. Killing people was not required to capture the plexes. Almost everything was captured with a ship+fitting worth less than 100k.
I did not kill anyone in the process, although I have fired on some people to scare them off. Your new Divine Commodore is a moral objectionist.
While I did a lot of the work by myself, this task wouldn't have been accomplished as fast without: Daraasi, Plausible, KC51, Lernaeus and Rabbi Godzilla for the intel and teamwork.
Special thanks to: DanFrazer for contributing hundreds ships for the Amarr cause, this guy deserves a medal. Laerise and the people of PIE for a nice raid into Minmatar space.
Amarr Victor, hehe
Excellent job. Only by breaking the game mechanics and showing CCP with actual results how ineffective their game design is can we ever hope for them to change it to something that is actually meaningful and worthwhile.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION
Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.06.18 20:11:00 -
[109]
Ok, OP had no pvp "final blows" in the capturing process. But who is to blame ? If you have a war and a warzone, and a special ops can operate in, accomplishing tasks for one warparty, without being disturbed by the enemy, who is to blame ?
It's those damn Minmatar ! They did not defend their sides, it was their job to stop the OP from accomplishing military operations. Apparently they horribly failed in that, but created meaningless blobs at places that had less meaning to the war. How do they want to win a war, when everyone can take over their systems and they don't do anything ? Thats why they'll always remain slaves, the OPs accomplishment proves how bad they are.
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Vladimir Titov
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:13:00 -
[110]
There are a few things I would like to point out:
1- The number of systems that the Minmatar have in contention is 42, compared to the Amarr 26. So if you are an Amarrian there is a whole lot more systems to contest. This leads to more plexes, and as such more points.
2- It takes a great deal of determination to plex hunt for so long. Most people do a few and then want another player to fight.
What worries me here is that the folks at CCP will look at Ankhesentapemkah as though he was the average gamer and then increase the difficulty of getting a promotion for everyone.
I started FW last Friday, and its been a blast. Been involved in several plex captures are rose to Spear Lieutenant, but I also had fun and got plenty of PvP action. Everyone knows that as your standings go up the rate of increase begins to decline. So I don't see a problem with any of this.
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:40:00 -
[111]
Quote: What worries me here is that the folks at CCP will look at Ankhesentapemkah as though he was the average gamer and then increase the difficulty of getting a promotion for everyone. Of course he can complain that he had a normal day, but the fact is he spent all of his EvE time capturing those points.
I suspect Ank devoted about 15 hours a day for 6 days to capturing all those complexes. (And since most of them were defensive,only about 26 systems to defend - surely you could have stopped that, Minmatar?)
So, if a casual player who caps plexes for 5 hours a week wants to max his rank, it will take him 18 weeks. I don't think the progression is too fast per se, but there will always be people who just spend every waking moment (or close to it) wholly focused and optimized on getting to a goal. That they get there fast doesn't mean it takes too little time, you have to consider how long it will take your 'average' player to get there.
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Tommy Reslin
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:58:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Tommy Reslin on 18/06/2008 21:02:55
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Ok, OP had no pvp "final blows" in the capturing process. But who is to blame ? If you have a war and a warzone, and a special ops can operate in, accomplishing tasks for one warparty, without being disturbed by the enemy, who is to blame ?
It's those damn Minmatar ! They did not defend their sides, it was their job to stop the OP from accomplishing military operations. Apparently they horribly failed in that, but created meaningless blobs at places that had less meaning to the war. How do they want to win a war, when everyone can take over their systems and they don't do anything ? Thats why they'll always remain slaves, the OPs accomplishment proves how bad they are.
This is exactly what I told my side in the Militia. That these groups that just gatecamp/focus on kills aren't doing anything from our side. That if it increases it'll be the downfall of our faction. Instead, they told me that they're "training" new players how to pvp and that they're "toying" with the amarr. Luckily, there are those of us that do capture plenty of objectives and defend.
How can the op get away with this? Simple, there's not enough of us. If we go in and see someone trying to defend a plex, they can quickly warp off to find another plex. Even if we cover all the plexes in the system, the person in question can rush to another system where our group can't cover. There's very rarely more than 3 groups doing plexes at any given time.
At the same time I've noticed quite a bit of our contested systems completely empty from Amarr. In groups of threes we've been able to uncontest many of our systems. So it's not just the minmatar that are guilty of "Gate camping" or "Not defending." It's both sides.
*Edit* I agree that it's not too fast. I think it should be left how it is. Do we really want it to take awhile and have high rewards? Do we really want faction warfare to become a major grind? Right now I see most people as Spike or Spear Liutenants. I have yet to be in a group that is rank 6 like myself. The average person will not get the rank in a week.
As I said before, I say that the rewards should be very simple things. Such as slightly cheaper cloning prices, repairs, etc. Just basic little things that add up. If it's made to take awhile, those of us who hit max in the time where it's "easy" get free rewards whereas everyone else has to work 3 times harder.
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Krall Amarr
Amarr Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.06.18 21:01:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Qduhaf Edited by: Qduhaf on 18/06/2008 20:03:43 ..
Go back to wow
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Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2008.06.18 21:31:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Miz Cenuij Basically I'm a total fggt.
Well, that settles that then I expect.
Only in ur wettest dreams nub.
"Men are going to die... and i'm going to kill them" |
Matalino
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.18 21:44:00 -
[115]
Originally by: FlameGlow 1. Get top rank for Amarr 2. Get top rank for Caldari 3. Run missions for SOE to get to 0.5 with Gallente/Minmatar 4. Get top rank for Gallente 5. Get top rank for Minmatar 6. Profit anchoring POSes anywhere in highsec!
Haven't checked the maths but I think getting about 5.5 faction standing to all empires is possible. Also I wonder if you're demoted for losing stand to militia corp and get faction boost when promoted again Faction BS BP farming anyone?
I have thought about getting the top rank for all of the faction, but I figured that I would wait until there is something more to being promoted than just getting a faction standing increase.
Because FW uses the same derived standings system as missions, your final standings would be the same as if you ran missions for all of the factions.
The only thing that working up all of the ranks will do is blow your one chance to fix your faction standings if you frak up your standings with one of the empire faction blocks.
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Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
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Posted - 2008.06.18 22:38:00 -
[116]
Well, Ankh, did you have fun achieving your max rank? At all? Even small scraps of fun? You did get complete them solo and you got standings and a rank. What were you expecting?
Factional Warfare isn't all about ranks, it isn't all "Hai guys lets blob Tama", its exactly what you make of it. If you want to camp gates, in a mega blob, you can. If you want to capture plexes, go ahead. Do you want to get a shiny rank and standings? You can.
I, personally, liked the handful of missions I've done. It changed up the routine and its not too terrible of a mechanic. Will it be popular? I doubt it, a major aspect of PvE content is easy access, instant action and ISK/tangible rewards for time imho. __________________________________________________
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
Aloriana Jacques
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.06.19 01:23:00 -
[117]
Congrats to ya Ank! I hope you had fun doing it and it wasn't just an grueling info gathering event.
I'm curious though. Did it affect any corporation standings as well, or only your faction standings? - - - - - - - - -
DesuSigs |
Lia Darklotus
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.19 01:57:00 -
[118]
I don't see any real accomplishment here. All I see is someone who went out of their way not to pvp at all. Not to mention the fact that those interested in PvPing seem to have taken up gate camping instead of running plexes. It seems these people favor the odds in a gate camp because they don't want to lose their ships So you have two groups here. One group is hell bent on avoiding pvp and the other is hell bent on avoiding any kind of even sided ( or lopsided ) pvping so they won't lose ships.
In the end I can only see that it's the players themselves who making the decisions not to engage each other properly. This game is a sandbox game and thus I doubt CCP will force people to fight each other if they don't want to or only want to do so when they know they can win.
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Jmanis Catharg
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.19 02:36:00 -
[119]
Quote: Well, Ankh, did you have fun achieving your max rank? At all? Even small scraps of fun? You did get complete them solo and you got standings and a rank. What were you expecting?
^^ This. Aside from whether a game mechanic is broken or useless or whatnot, whether there's rewards or not, the main part is did you have fun?
The objective of FW is, at the end of the day whether it's secondary objectives are to get people into low-sec pvp, offer more PvE content or provide e-peen stroking in the form of ranks, is, to capture systems. If capturing systems involves finding the enemy system with the least resistance, capturing the points and eventually taking the control bunker while never seeing another player for PvP, so be it. The objective of capturing the system is complete. It's not my fault nobody chose to defend that system, and I certainly wouldn't run scared if people arrived at that system (provided it wasn't blindly stupid to continue my attempts in the face of overwhelming odds).
It's a bit unfortunate that it is so easy to get max rank by fitting a nano and orbiting the objective, almost immune to damage, but if that gives you kicks, go for it.
Personally in achieving ranks I'm choosing to sit in the one spot within range of the beacon destroying every NPC or PC that comes my way. I plan to die. Lots. I have a stockpile of at least 50 ships from frigates right up to battleships and fittings to burn while I'm at it. Point is, I want to capture points and earn rank without nano-ing. If there's PCs there to fight me, makes it more exciting, if there isn't, the fun of pew pew gets replaced by the fun getting closer and closer to higher ranks.
Blobs and being barked at by some FC is not what I joined FW for, so I don't go to Tama I never submit killmails either, whether it's my kill or my loss. It's just not my idea of fun to say "Hey, I killed someone/got killed, now I have to find their killboard and post it..."
One time ages ago pre-FW someone saw me arcing up at Gallente customs in hi sec with a remote-repping scorpion helping me out. A couple people laughed, and one said "You idiot, what are you doing? They don't drop loot!". I didn't care. I was having fun.
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.19 03:50:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Miz Cenuij Lol what a joke. Ranks should be related to the number of enemy player ships downed. Not how much of a carebear some inbred can be for 2 weeks.
Kills giving ranks would get abused so heavily that it would be downright silly. Not as much as smartbombing gates in lowsec in a mom, and jumping out as soon as anything that might be a threat shows up, but close.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.19 03:56:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: MotherMoon
Indeed the current system is broken as all hell. I mean it's wierd FW missons ive little isk and LP for the risk and yet for no risk you can gain one of the highest ranks.
No risk? Then why is there talk of her wrecks and losses in this thread?
oh come on, even the op is stating it was easy.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.19 03:57:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Ulstan Oh also, capturing plexes does a lot more for your team than sitting in a blob gatecamping the opponents entry point into low sec, which is what most people seem to be going for. That doesn't get your side anything.
Capturing plexes helps your side gain control of the systems, which is the entire point behind factional warfare. It's safe to say no one helped their side as much as Ankh has, if you look at it purely by the numbers.
however the problem is each player will only do 100 plex this way... ti should be more like 400... and yes I know that's not a big deal but still it should be more so players keep doing it.
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Clinically
ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.19 04:11:00 -
[123]
Firstly, props to the OP for the achievement.
Now, the nitty gritty: It's incredibly lame that the top rating medal thingy in FW can be achieved by 6 days of carebearing alone, that's some seriously broken mechanics.
No kills should = no rank. ________________
Originally by: Evil Thug I wear pink panties.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.19 04:13:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Clinically Firstly, props to the OP for the achievement.
Now, the nitty gritty: It's incredibly lame that the top rating medal thingy in FW can be achieved by 6 days of carebearing alone, that's some seriously broken mechanics.
No kills should = no rank.
how about this? it's a balance? it's 50% carebearing 50% PvP? would people be ok with that?
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Jmanis Catharg
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.19 04:41:00 -
[125]
Quote: how about this? it's a balance? it's 50% carebearing 50% PvP? would people be ok with that?
Indeed, I think it should be a "raw numbers" thing rather than a standings thing.
For example, the first rank should be something like: 5 offensive Minor points captured, 5 defensive points captured, 10 PC kills.
And the last rank being something like 100 minor offensive, 50 medium offensive, 25 major offensive captures, same for defensive and 1000 PC kills.
Because one thing that didn't quite make any sense to me was that a Major plex capture gave identical standings increases as a minor plex capture. It seems very daft that you can get top rank just by capturing lots of minor plexes.
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Siigari Kitawa
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.06.19 05:03:00 -
[126]
Who cares about the little rank thing?
Everyone knows who is good at leading fleets etc and stuff, so why does that sort of thing matter? Unless you get a bonus.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.19 05:08:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Who cares about the little rank thing?
Everyone knows who is good at leading fleets etc and stuff, so why does that sort of thing matter? Unless you get a bonus.
honestly it's just for a goal, as an FC I don't mind knowing these goals will help them fight.
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Jmanis Catharg
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.19 05:09:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 19/06/2008 05:10:51
Quote: Who cares about the little rank thing?
And who cares about how many kills you get? There's no point to that except bragging rights. Point is regardless of the sugary-carebear-enticing-coating of ranks, or the blood-drenched-hardcoreness of oh-so-many kills on your killboard, neither have any effect other than e-peen stroking.
But while you're on it, why not remove occupancy too, since it's got no effect or reward either?
Point is it's a goal to achieve, and the argument is that it shouldn't be so easy to hit, which I wholeheartedly agree with.
EDIT: On an aside, pre-FW, I actually did care about how low I could get my Gallente Federation standing, the lower the better. And that seems much harder to achieve than rank. Damn diplomacy skill :(
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Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.06.19 06:09:00 -
[129]
We capture complexes as an afterthought, as a corpmate put it, not as a goal.
We come to kill the Amarrian dogs, not spend days on end looking at their NPCs.
Goal Line Blitz, an American Football browser game. |
cal nereus
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.19 06:18:00 -
[130]
Why do we play MMO's with grind in 'em at all? We want something, something to work for, something that has no value except in our minds and the minds of others playing the same game. Some people attribute a value to acquiring some of the stuff in this game, and ranks are some of that stuff. And as with most individually-driven value systems, each of us attributes different values to the same stuff. Some people do want to acquire ranks. It's a goal that's fun to them, even if it's irrelevant to most others.
Anywho, I like that idea about joining all four factions one at a time to get the highest rank in each of 'em. Since your rank is never removed when you leave a faction, and standings gains are generally faster than standings losses (depending on how you play your cards) it certainly seems possible and rewarding. Too bad it's a lot of time and work. I'm too lazy to try. --- Earning Isk Basic Skills
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.19 06:20:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil We capture complexes as an afterthought, as a corpmate put it, not as a goal.
We come to kill the Amarrian dogs, not spend days on end looking at their NPCs.
The idea is that taking plexes in systems full of Player pilots will get them to attack you at the plex.
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Siigari Kitawa
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.06.19 06:21:00 -
[132]
Well I agree on the point of the easy to obtain thing, but look at Ankhe as a player who is not your typical EVE player.
I mean, if the "typical EVE player" were not to reach the top rank within a year, lots of people would have it in like, 2 months.
Just the nature of the beast.
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Fifinella
Fringe Exploration And Salvage Trust
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Posted - 2008.06.19 06:27:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg For example, the first rank should be something like: 5 offensive Minor points captured, 5 defensive points captured, 10 PC kills.
And the last rank being something like 100 minor offensive, 50 medium offensive, 25 major offensive captures, same for defensive and 1000 PC kills.
No.
Because as long as it's raw numbers, people WILL get there.
Then a faction militia will have 1500 admirals and a noob named Derek ranked as private, first class.
What it should do, is a comparison:
3 points for major offensive capture, 2 for medium, 1 for minor. 2 Points for major defence, 1 for medium, 0 for minor.
Whoever in a militia has THE MOST POINTS gets the title "grand poo-bah" or "ultimate triple admiral". The next two get the title "Not-so-grand poo-bah" or "Ultimate double admiral". The next three get the titles "just a poo-bah" or "grand admiral", the next four are no longer even poo-bahs, they're just "admirals", then you get five regular admirals, then comes 10 rear admirals (a popular rank in the Swedish Navy, tee-hee), then 25 commodores, then 50 captains, and finally 250 lieutenant-commanders. The rest of the militia? They get no rank. If they want one, they have to get one from the higher-ranking ones by surpassing their achievements. (Or using a process known as "filling a dead man's shoes". A guy in the Spanish army tried this in the 19th century, but got caught after, ahem, emptying only two pairs of shoes ahead of him).
If you leave a militia, you lose a pile of points (say, 20%), and your title gets changed to "reserve <whatever your points now let you be>".
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2008.06.19 06:32:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil We capture complexes as an afterthought, as a corpmate put it, not as a goal.
We come to kill the Amarrian dogs, not spend days on end looking at their NPCs.
And that means FW mechanics are not up to scratch. Deathmatch is not worth it. Attack and defend would be so much better, but it seems this currently isn't working, as demonstrated by the OP, and by your statement.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2008.06.19 06:35:00 -
[135]
Originally by: MotherMoon
No risk? Then why is there talk of her wrecks and losses in this thread?
oh come on, even the op is stating it was easy.
Yes, but if probability of losing ships doesn't constitute a risk, then there is no risk in fw, whether you're blobbing some gate or capturing complexes. My point is that if you're going to throw around the all too common attack of "no risk", realize that it is just as true of the T1 blobs in their mighty peeveepee as it is of the OP's activities.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.19 06:36:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Sakura Nihil We capture complexes as an afterthought, as a corpmate put it, not as a goal.
We come to kill the Amarrian dogs, not spend days on end looking at their NPCs.
And that means FW mechanics are not up to scratch. Deathmatch is not worth it. Attack and defend would be so much better, but it seems this currently isn't working, as demonstrated by the OP, and by your statement.
BUT as a test it's working out well just need to add more stuff :)
also I agree with making the top player based on kills/and VC get the top rank would be cool.
but you should be able to grind up to at least rank 9? or maybe top 100 players get rank 9, top 300 get rank 8 and such?
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Tommy Reslin
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.06.19 06:54:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Tommy Reslin on 19/06/2008 06:55:44
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Sakura Nihil We capture complexes as an afterthought, as a corpmate put it, not as a goal.
We come to kill the Amarrian dogs, not spend days on end looking at their NPCs.
And that means FW mechanics are not up to scratch. Deathmatch is not worth it. Attack and defend would be so much better, but it seems this currently isn't working, as demonstrated by the OP, and by your statement.
BUT as a test it's working out well just need to add more stuff :)
also I agree with making the top player based on kills/and VC get the top rank would be cool.
but you should be able to grind up to at least rank 9? or maybe top 100 players get rank 9, top 300 get rank 8 and such?
I think the best system is to leave the ranks as is but have minor rewards as I've said before. I think the main problem, the one reason why these ranks are so easy to obtain, is that half the time no one knows that their plexes are being captured. CCP based these ranks off the idea that the enemies will be fighting inside the areas keeping them contested. That players would fight enemy players in trying to take them.
The reason the skill ups are coming so quickly is the fact that 90% of the time there's absolutely no resistance. First off, when they finally do add rewards, there will be more resistance as more people will be interested in plexes. Second off.. allow an "Agent" in the area controlled by <faction name here> inform everyone that "Solar System Such and Such is under attack."
This way people will come to fight them. So everytime you attempt to capture something the enemies will know where you are. This will bring in some more fights. The fact that defending offers more points is more likely to encourage this mechanic. As it's more beneficial for them to cease attacking and come defend their own areas.
What does everyone think about this? I just think making the ranks harder but with better rewards is a terrible idea. All it will cause is people like me to have free rewards while everyone else has to do it two times harder. Now, I'd be the one getting free rewards if this was the case and I am saying it's unfair.
Also the top player thing is also bad.. it'll be the High Warlord Grind all over again. Some people will never ever see those ranks or get those rewards because there will be people who refuse to ever get off in order to obtain said ranks. This is even at the risk of their own health.
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.19 11:25:00 -
[138]
15 x 6 = 90hrs game play. Thats not an average players gaming week, hell its more than most top FC's put in around 0.0!!
90hrs game play to get a top rank which achieves no bonus but is nice eye candy seems ok tbh. If any kind of bonus is attributed to this standing however then something needs to be done to maintain it. Some sort of upkeep (top up VP per week or something). I guess it depends on how good the bonus is though.
As for the minnie faction not noticing, this shows an issue in the game mechanic tbh. Minnie faction has fleets of 40-60 + multiple roaming gangs pretty much all the time. I've yet to see them without both a fleet and at least 2-3 roaming gangs going about capping stuff. As it is, whilst the amarrians have a couple pilots grinding the minors as fast as possible, minnie have been running all plexes as much as possible. Result? minnie are still ahead on VP and are closer to capping additional systems along with the one already cap'd.
Something that would likely improve things, give the npc's more webbing and nos. Major plexes are a challenge in smaller ships but only if you want to kill the rats. Best bet atm? group of interceptors roaming with a couple T1 frigs speed tanking also. Go into any plex with the required ship and speed tank it. The idea of plexes with limited allowed ships is great as it adds diversity but the way interceptors and speed tanked t1 frigs can be abused in the current mechanic nullifies this. I've got nothing against people PVE focused instead of PVP but they should at least have some sort of challenge in grinding.
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Von Wulfe
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.06.19 11:35:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Well done :)
WOW, Jade Constantine... I remember you. Are you still here, active, after 5 years of play? I feel bad about taking 3 years off now... Good to see a familiar toon, hope all is well. Sorry for the thread derailment, back on track now... :)
CONGRATS OP!
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Jongo Fett
Save Yourself Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.19 11:36:00 -
[140]
Congrats
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Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.06.19 12:50:00 -
[141]
Let me briefly walk you through a day in my life, in FW.
Leave base to patrol, looking for targets. Spend a good chunk of time hunting said targets, and occasionally getting myself blown up - as most of the Amarrians are EU timezone, so far, there's more fights in the morning and afternoon for US people like myself. Only at night, when their numbers drop and we start to have a significant ratio against them do we see the majority of them docked up or running around in elusive frigates - its only when this happens, after hours spent fighting, that we consider capping complexes as there's nothing to shoot. I suspect a lot of other PvP-oriented FW participants do the same, especially as PvE and PvP fits can vary signficantly (like a plated Thorax versus one with an armor tank).
Goal Line Blitz, an American Football browser game. |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:27:00 -
[142]
My 2 cents on the ranking system:
Ranks should not be based on standings as it's pretty easy for people to get large amounts of standings. Ranking should be based on percentages relative to the points/kills/whatever of the other players in the faction:
Rank | Percentage 1. 1% 2. 1-4% 3. 4-10% 4. 10-18% 5. 18-28% 6. 28-40% 7. 40-54% 8. 54-60% 9. 60-80% 10. 80-100% ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Cerzi
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Posted - 2008.06.19 15:13:00 -
[143]
Hehe, grats I suppose, despite my best attempts to harass you
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Cerzia
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Posted - 2008.06.19 15:18:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil Let me briefly walk you through a day in my life, in FW.
Leave base to patrol, looking for targets. Spend a good chunk of time hunting said targets, and occasionally getting myself blown up - as most of the Amarrians are EU timezone, so far, there's more fights in the morning and afternoon for US people like myself. Only at night, when their numbers drop and we start to have a significant ratio against them do we see the majority of them docked up or running around in elusive frigates - its only when this happens, after hours spent fighting, that we consider capping complexes as there's nothing to shoot. I suspect a lot of other PvP-oriented FW participants do the same, especially as PvE and PvP fits can vary signficantly (like a plated Thorax versus one with an armor tank).
People's mentality need to change. Part of the idea of FW was to get some regular fights at a location that isn't a stargate or station, in order to make the battles a bit more fun and brutal (no docking/jumping lameness). Right now though, most people are just joining the usual blobs and camping gates, meaning that the complexes are mostly empty, with the vast majority of people capping them being like the OP and having to do very little pvp.
Once both sides start spreading thinner and really fighting for the plexes, it'll become much harder for a single person to cap plexes on their own. In the meantime, 90% of a militia's forces decide to plonk themselves in just 2-3 systems, leaving the other 30-40 systems open to people who don't even know how to pvp.
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Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.06.19 15:55:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Cerzia
Originally by: Sakura Nihil Let me briefly walk you through a day in my life, in FW.
Leave base to patrol, looking for targets. Spend a good chunk of time hunting said targets, and occasionally getting myself blown up - as most of the Amarrians are EU timezone, so far, there's more fights in the morning and afternoon for US people like myself. Only at night, when their numbers drop and we start to have a significant ratio against them do we see the majority of them docked up or running around in elusive frigates - its only when this happens, after hours spent fighting, that we consider capping complexes as there's nothing to shoot. I suspect a lot of other PvP-oriented FW participants do the same, especially as PvE and PvP fits can vary signficantly (like a plated Thorax versus one with an armor tank).
People's mentality need to change. Part of the idea of FW was to get some regular fights at a location that isn't a stargate or station, in order to make the battles a bit more fun and brutal (no docking/jumping lameness). Right now though, most people are just joining the usual blobs and camping gates, meaning that the complexes are mostly empty, with the vast majority of people capping them being like the OP and having to do very little pvp.
Once both sides start spreading thinner and really fighting for the plexes, it'll become much harder for a single person to cap plexes on their own. In the meantime, 90% of a militia's forces decide to plonk themselves in just 2-3 systems, leaving the other 30-40 systems open to people who don't even know how to pvp.
There is two problems with trying to get fights at complexes.
The first difficulty is that people have to care enough about taking them and defending them to be a source of conflict. Frankly, I don't think this is the case with any militia at the moment, people prefer not to contest already-existing sites but rather counterattack by doing their own offensives - in short, there is little to no proper defense going on. The timers, while appropriate length for the attackers to show up and do their thing while not feeling horribly bored, isn't enough time for defense to show up, especially if they're not in the ships they need to be to go into the site. It also doesn't help that most militia members at the moment roll with the blob mentality, rather than splitting up and hunting in packs.
The second problem is that to get fights at the plex, the ones inside have to stick around while those coming to contest it show up. The Amarrians in particular seem to be attacking level 1 sites, which only allow frigates and destroyers into the deadspace. Considering most of our patrol ships, at least at the corporation level, are either T2 frigates or T1/T2 cruisers, that locks us out of them - either we alert militia and they take their sweet time to show up, or we wait until they finish the plex and try to intercept them as they leave.
On the off chance that we find them outside the plex at the acceleration gate, most times we usually don't get fights but chase scenes reminiscent of Benny Hill. We once chased a gang of 25 people, mostly in frigates, up from Eszur all the way to Todifrauan and back, ganking them where possible with our 9 people in inties and HACs - if they had stood and fought, they may have won on ISK if they got a kill or two, especially possible as the gate sucks you into 0km range when you warp to it, but they ran and lost half their people before getting home. Some people simply do not want to fight when confronted, and unfortunately, these people are the average plex-taker.
Consider these experiences as incomplete, of course, as I'm just a small part of the overall picture. But hopefully, this can give you a look at what's happening on the ground from my point of view.
Goal Line Blitz, an American Football browser game. |
Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.19 16:12:00 -
[146]
Also Ankh, if you powered your way through all the content at a hyper accelerated pace, you don't really get to complain when you run out of content - it was your decision to run through it that fast.
Anyway, as far as content goes, it's all still there. There is nothing keeping you from continuing to cap plexes for Amarr so they can cap some systems. The only thing that's changed is you don't get a standings increase for it - but that's hardly the same thing as a lack of content.
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WarlockX
Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.19 17:22:00 -
[147]
losing ranks has and always will be dumb. you work your ass off to get admiral take a one month vacation and come back as a private, that's the dumbest idea ever.
Originally by: Fifinella
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg For example, the first rank should be something like: 5 offensive Minor points captured, 5 defensive points captured, 10 PC kills.
And the last rank being something like 100 minor offensive, 50 medium offensive, 25 major offensive captures, same for defensive and 1000 PC kills.
No.
Because as long as it's raw numbers, people WILL get there.
Then a faction militia will have 1500 admirals and a noob named Derek ranked as private, first class.
What it should do, is a comparison:
3 points for major offensive capture, 2 for medium, 1 for minor. 2 Points for major defence, 1 for medium, 0 for minor.
Whoever in a militia has THE MOST POINTS gets the title "grand poo-bah" or "ultimate triple admiral". The next two get the title "Not-so-grand poo-bah" or "Ultimate double admiral". The next three get the titles "just a poo-bah" or "grand admiral", the next four are no longer even poo-bahs, they're just "admirals", then you get five regular admirals, then comes 10 rear admirals (a popular rank in the Swedish Navy, tee-hee), then 25 commodores, then 50 captains, and finally 250 lieutenant-commanders. The rest of the militia? They get no rank. If they want one, they have to get one from the higher-ranking ones by surpassing their achievements. (Or using a process known as "filling a dead man's shoes". A guy in the Spanish army tried this in the 19th century, but got caught after, ahem, emptying only two pairs of shoes ahead of him).
If you leave a militia, you lose a pile of points (say, 20%), and your title gets changed to "reserve <whatever your points now let you be>".
----------------------------------------------- "I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation." |
Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.19 17:30:00 -
[148]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Ulstan Oh also, capturing plexes does a lot more for your team than sitting in a blob gatecamping the opponents entry point into low sec, which is what most people seem to be going for. That doesn't get your side anything.
Capturing plexes helps your side gain control of the systems, which is the entire point behind factional warfare. It's safe to say no one helped their side as much as Ankh has, if you look at it purely by the numbers.
however the problem is each player will only do 100 plex this way... ti should be more like 400... and yes I know that's not a big deal but still it should be more so players keep doing it.
Players will do plexes indefinitely if system occupancy means something. There's no point in just increasing the number of plexes required to reach max rank so that players will 'keep doing them'. If players only do them until they reach max rank and then stop FW will have been a gigantic failure.
If people keep doing them after they reach max rank, it doesn't really matter how many it takes for them to reach max rank.
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Trojanman190
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.06.19 17:49:00 -
[149]
Seperate ranks for the number of kills would be very nice... and make sense.
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Moraguth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.06.19 18:15:00 -
[150]
I don't really care how CCP finally decides to give out "points" that go towards ranks, but the ranks should be divided up kinda like a real military. Since the only one i know these numbers for is the US, I'll give a brief example.
Less than 5% of all enlisted members are senior NCOs. 2% of those people have the paygrade of E-8 (E-1 to E-9), and less than 1% of them have the highest enlisted grade (E-9). Officers work the same way, more or less. Then, obviously, the person with the most points (the most qualified... hopefully in all aspects of the game/military) has the highest rank.
This would kinda suck for the people who only get to play an hour or two a week, but it kind of makes sense too. The reservist who only has to show up 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year isn't going to be a chief anyway. More or less.
Just my idea, tear it apart if you must. good game
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.06.19 18:24:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Moraguth I don't really care how CCP finally decides to give out "points" that go towards ranks, but the ranks should be divided up kinda like a real military. Since the only one i know these numbers for is the US, I'll give a brief example.
Less than 5% of all enlisted members are senior NCOs. 2% of those people have the paygrade of E-8 (E-1 to E-9), and less than 1% of them have the highest enlisted grade (E-9). Officers work the same way, more or less. Then, obviously, the person with the most points (the most qualified... hopefully in all aspects of the game/military) has the highest rank.
This would kinda suck for the people who only get to play an hour or two a week, but it kind of makes sense too. The reservist who only has to show up 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year isn't going to be a chief anyway. More or less.
Just my idea, tear it apart if you must.
That made no sense whatsoever to a civilian. Other than that it should suck to be a weekend warrior.
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Moraguth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.06.19 18:42:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Originally by: Moraguth I don't really care how CCP finally decides to give out "points" that go towards ranks, but the ranks should be divided up kinda like a real military. Since the only one i know these numbers for is the US, I'll give a brief example.
Less than 5% of all enlisted members are senior NCOs. 2% of those people have the paygrade of E-8 (E-1 to E-9), and less than 1% of them have the highest enlisted grade (E-9). Officers work the same way, more or less. Then, obviously, the person with the most points (the most qualified... hopefully in all aspects of the game/military) has the highest rank.
This would kinda suck for the people who only get to play an hour or two a week, but it kind of makes sense too. The reservist who only has to show up 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year isn't going to be a chief anyway. More or less.
Just my idea, tear it apart if you must.
That made no sense whatsoever to a civilian. Other than that it should suck to be a weekend warrior.
Sorry... simple terms then. If you have ranks 1 (new guy) through rank 10 (top elite general of doom) then: rank 10 : 1 pilot rank 9 : 2% of the top scoring pilots rank 8 : 5% of the top scoring pilots rank 7 : 8% of the top scoring pilots rank 6 : 12% of the top scoring pilots rank 5 : 15% of the top scoring pilots rank 4 through 1 (or 0) could be gotten based on a preset number of FW points or off your faction standing. That way, in the beginning you're just proving yourself to the faction to gain rank, and for the top half of the ranks, you're proving yourself to the reset of the community. Of course, all of those percentages would be debatable; they were just rough outlines. good game
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Dohl Khrensen
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.19 19:49:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Ulstan What the...Minmatar, you fail horribly. It sounds like you let 111 complexes that *you started* get re-captured without any fight whatsoever.
QFT
There are two possible reasons for this happening:
1) The reason Ulstan states above. In a noobish frenzy, the Minmatar pilots went ape in frigs and destroyers in Amarr space, did a few minor sites to contest the system, then ran like exotic dancers when they couldn't tank the Major and higher sites. Whatever way you look at it, this is the Minmatar's fault for opening sites they can not finish, and high fives for the Amarr for capitalizing on the game mechanics.
2) A blatent exploitation of game mechanics. The Divine Commodore had an alt in the Minmatar militia/neutral scanning back-water contested Amarr systems, opening sites in these systems to get free and easy Happy Points. In this case, its the fault of half-baked game mechanics, mechanics that are basically untestable on the SISI wasteland.
Either way, this is not the way it should be. You should not be able to reach the top rank in less than a week. I'm not sure which of the proposed solutions or roads to solution I favour right now, but its obvious some tweaking is needed. I'm not saying you should get x points for PvP kills, or a PvP/PvE scoring system to get ranks. I'm just saying under the current system, for better or worse, this is how it works.
Dohl
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Tommy Reslin
Crescent Moon Volunteer Squadron
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Posted - 2008.06.19 20:16:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Dohl Khrensen
Originally by: Ulstan What the...Minmatar, you fail horribly. It sounds like you let 111 complexes that *you started* get re-captured without any fight whatsoever.
QFT
There are two possible reasons for this happening:
1) The reason Ulstan states above. In a noobish frenzy, the Minmatar pilots went ape in frigs and destroyers in Amarr space, did a few minor sites to contest the system, then ran like exotic dancers when they couldn't tank the Major and higher sites. Whatever way you look at it, this is the Minmatar's fault for opening sites they can not finish, and high fives for the Amarr for capitalizing on the game mechanics.
2) A blatent exploitation of game mechanics. The Divine Commodore had an alt in the Minmatar militia/neutral scanning back-water contested Amarr systems, opening sites in these systems to get free and easy Happy Points. In this case, its the fault of half-baked game mechanics, mechanics that are basically untestable on the SISI wasteland.
Either way, this is not the way it should be. You should not be able to reach the top rank in less than a week. I'm not sure which of the proposed solutions or roads to solution I favour right now, but its obvious some tweaking is needed. I'm not saying you should get x points for PvP kills, or a PvP/PvE scoring system to get ranks. I'm just saying under the current system, for better or worse, this is how it works.
Dohl
Actually, in your own contested system, I've been able to scan which opens up plexes that I can defend. On top of this, there's also noobs that scan for plexes but are solo. So they open up plenty of amarr plexes then tell the Militia channel. The problem with this is that it opens them for the enemy to recap and normally the people in the militia channel are already in another system capping plexes so they don't have time to rush down there and get the one the solo noob opened.
So the solo noob just opens it for the amarr to retake.
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Dohl Khrensen
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.19 20:50:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Tommy Reslin Actually, in your own contested system, I've been able to scan which opens up plexes that I can defend.
This is something that I have not been able to do so far, and not for lack of trying. As I tested this the first couple days of the war, I came up with nothing, and upon thinking about it figured that that's the way it should be. You should not be able to scan out your own complexes in your contested systems. The timezone imbalances become even more pronounced and its a far worse system than the current (exploitable) system.
Originally by: Tommy Reslin So the solo noob just opens it for the amarr to retake.
Yup. Rookie ambition and blissful ignorance of the mechanics actually work against his/her own faction in this case. But, this is a player issue that has a player solution (education).
Dohl
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Compliance
Republic of Texas Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.06.19 20:52:00 -
[156]
Guys we can't expect CCP to make the game - it's a sandbox, so we have to make it ourselves its what WE make of it, not THEM, it's all about WE the players and how WE play the game and that's why we pay CCP, you can't just expect them to make game mechanics that work or have objectives, they know better than that its OUR imagination guys
*throws more money at iceland*
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Mankirks Wife
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Posted - 2008.06.19 21:02:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah standing raised from 0.55 to 7.16
Well.. I think I'll stop trying to raise standing doing lv. 3 missions and go shoot some ****. Maybe see you all soon (on my main of course)
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.06.19 21:05:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: MotherMoon
No risk? Then why is there talk of her wrecks and losses in this thread?
oh come on, even the op is stating it was easy.
Yes, but if probability of losing ships doesn't constitute a risk, then there is no risk in fw, whether you're blobbing some gate or capturing complexes. My point is that if you're going to throw around the all too common attack of "no risk", realize that it is just as true of the T1 blobs in their mighty peeveepee as it is of the OP's activities.
Yes, 2 to 3 frigate losses is horrific. The risk/reward is just fine.
Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.19 21:26:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Moraguth I don't really care how CCP finally decides to give out "points" that go towards ranks, but the ranks should be divided up kinda like a real military. Since the only one i know these numbers for is the US, I'll give a brief example.
Less than 5% of all enlisted members are senior NCOs. 2% of those people have the paygrade of E-8 (E-1 to E-9), and less than 1% of them have the highest enlisted grade (E-9). Officers work the same way, more or less. Then, obviously, the person with the most points (the most qualified... hopefully in all aspects of the game/military) has the highest rank.
This would kinda suck for the people who only get to play an hour or two a week, but it kind of makes sense too. The reservist who only has to show up 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year isn't going to be a chief anyway. More or less.
Just my idea, tear it apart if you must.
This sounds like WOW's system, so, no, bad idea.
Competing against your teammates is a terrible, horrible design.
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.19 21:29:00 -
[160]
Quote: You should not be able to reach the top rank in less than a week
What's wrong with reaching the top rank after a week of solid gametime? Do you realize how long it would take a casual player to put in a week of playtime?
That a few people can afford to basically do nothing but EVE 24/7 and power through stuff is no reason to adjust it.
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Thenoran
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.06.19 22:03:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote: Killing people was not required to capture the plexes. Almost everything was captured with a ship+fitting worth less than 100k.
I did not kill anyone in the process, although I have fired on some people to scare them off.
What the...Minmatar, you fail horribly. It sounds like you let 111 complexes that *you started* get re-captured without any fight whatsoever.
Anyway, call it 120 plexes over 6 days, that's 20 plexes a day. 30 min to a plex is 600 minutes per day, or Ten hours per day for 6 days doing nothing but capping plexes
Your dedication is quite astounding.
So you don't actually need to be around to get the points? You just need to start the plex and then go anywhere? Even if the enemy warps in on the plex and stuff? I assumed you needed to be within cap range the entire time. ------------------------
Ore Depletion Calculator |
Blane Xero
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.06.19 22:12:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Thenoran
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote: Killing people was not required to capture the plexes. Almost everything was captured with a ship+fitting worth less than 100k.
I did not kill anyone in the process, although I have fired on some people to scare them off.
What the...Minmatar, you fail horribly. It sounds like you let 111 complexes that *you started* get re-captured without any fight whatsoever.
Anyway, call it 120 plexes over 6 days, that's 20 plexes a day. 30 min to a plex is 600 minutes per day, or Ten hours per day for 6 days doing nothing but capping plexes
Your dedication is quite astounding.
So you don't actually need to be around to get the points? You just need to start the plex and then go anywhere? Even if the enemy warps in on the plex and stuff? I assumed you needed to be within cap range the entire time.
Re-read it a bit, if that were the case he wouldnt spend 30mins per plex now would he
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