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Ergoth 2020
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Posted - 2008.06.19 07:00:00 -
[1]
hi there
i have just started doing lvl4 missions and my second mission was downing the slavers 2/2
i'm having few probs with this and not sure if its because of tenique setup or skills
my setup is (megathron)
6x 350mm proto rails 2xtractor beams
4x cap rech 2
1x power relay 2x EM hardners 2x Therm hardnrs 2x LAR Accom
3x CCC
5x hammer 2 drones
now this setup can tank 752 according to EFT
the prob is as soon as i get trown in via the gate i am ight in the middle of it all and they all agro me and my tank cant hold. am i missing something or do i hust need to wait till i got more skills to boost my tank
cheers to all in advance
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Nocturnal Avenger
Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.19 07:14:00 -
[2]
Pretty sure T2 tank will do the trick.
Otherwise - cheat a bit if you have the isk, and buy a faction tank (less than 300M for 2 large reppers and hardeners)
OR
use 1-3 auxiliary nano pumps instead of ccc and put on a heavy cap injector.
- Carebear Pirate - |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.06.19 08:34:00 -
[3]
Hmm my setup tanks 765DPS and I can perma the mission.
Kill the sentries and missile batteries as first I'd say. Then the DPS should be workable. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Zo5o
Longcat is Long
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Posted - 2008.06.19 09:09:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Zo5o on 19/06/2008 09:12:02
This post is baffling me.
I do this mission with 533 tankable against Sansha and have no problems.
I'd probably decline missions against Sanshas if I flew a megathron though. The damage types that a megathron throws out aren't the best to use against Sanshas.
Considered a domi, OP? It's a better overall ship for missions than the megathron because you can choose the type of a larger percentage of its DPS.
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Thirzarr
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Posted - 2008.06.19 09:17:00 -
[5]
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=RogueSlaveTrader4
2x Large Armor Repairer (II if possible) 1x N-Type Thermic Hardener I 1x N-Type EM Hardener I 1x Damage Control II 2x Capacitor Power Relay II
3x Cap Recharger II 1x 100MN Afterburner II
7x 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Thorium Charge L [empty high slot]
3x Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5 --- this worked like a charm on several missions. Altho I spent some iskies on Faction Hardeners (not tooo expensive, since this is just a gallente-tryout) and I was able to use t2 everywhere else, too. I would NEVER fly anything that NEEDS range without an AB (the way to dictate range, outrun cruisers, work the transversal and get out of tight situations).
EFT sais I can permarun the above setup, ab and both lars and all guns blazing. It's an ok Tank and definately fun to fly. The rail-hyperion however would easily outperform it. But you asked Megathron, so this is it.
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FT Diomedes
Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.06.19 10:24:00 -
[6]
You probably just don't have the skills. Also, your setup is not very good. Frankly, you are not doing nearly enough DPS. Drop one of the armor repair systems, replace it with a Damage Control II. Then drop one of the tractor beams - replace it with another 350mm railgun. Then drop the cap power relay, and replace it with a Magnetic Field Stabilizer II. Then get a LAR II and Tech II Armor Hardeners. If you want to permarun, add 3x CCC rigs. A good mission running setup for a Megathron looks something like this:
[Megathron, Dio's Megathron] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Armor EM Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Damage Control II Large Armor Repairer II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L Drone Link Augmentor I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5
If you have decent skills, it all fits and works beautifully. If your cap skills are not great, drop the Tracking CPU and add another Cap Recharger II for permarunning. ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
Pteranodon
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Posted - 2008.06.19 11:46:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Pteranodon on 19/06/2008 11:49:57 I would leave the Megathron in the hanger until your skills are much higher.
I would change to a Dominix and use the following setup. All tec1 at present but you will fly through the mission.
Lows
2 Large Armor rep 2 Active xx Hardeners (xx for mission type) 2 Active xx Hardeners 1 Damage control
Mids
Fill with cap rechargers (use eutectic if you cant use tec2)
Highs
2 Drone link Augmentors 4 250mm guns (don't worry about loss of damage bonus-track better than dual 250). Use Thorium Ammo as it give you range & does not nerf your range like antimatter.
Rigs
3 CCC
Drones
5 Berserker 5 Infiltrator 5 Hammerhead + what ever you want (wardens are fab)
Use guns to supplement the drones. Domi gets a 10% bonus to drones per BS level. This setup will keep you out of trouble until you can develope your BS skills.
Get a full tec2 tank as quick as you can. It will be the single most important step along with good drone skills to fly the domi well. Safe landings. If you ever see my alt, Taharqua10 near Sobeski- give me a call I can help you spec good battleships & help you complete level4's.
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Imo thefirst
Danish Space Brigade Aurora Borealis Foundation
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:05:00 -
[8]
having no problems whit tanking it in my domi steup:
high : gallente navy 425 mm rail 2x Meta 4 L nos 2x dronelink 1x tractor
mid : sensor booster II fleeting web omnidirec 2x cap rechareger II
low : LAR II complex MAR Damage controll II thermal hardner II 3x EAMS II
rigs : 2x ccc 1 x (rep amount rig)
Drones : sentrys hammer II for frigs
kill cruise towers first -------------- Imo TheFirst CEO of DSBDK Diplomat for AuroB |
Talsha Talamar
Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:16:00 -
[9]
Prioritize your targets, if I remember correctly in this mission, the turrets have to go first, Cruise>Missile>Sentries
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Sanzorz
EVEfan.dk
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:44:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Sanzorz on 19/06/2008 14:44:39 I had Repair Systems 4 for ages and I only used 1 repper and 2 hardeners. Go with 2 EM hardeners and 1 thermal, if you want. Stick 2-3 damage mods in low and fry those turrets. Your tank might be failing, but it will keep up for quite a while to sustain it, when you lower the damage tanked from the sentries. Go for the Turret Sentries first as those have hp less of a frigate, then the cruise turrets because they pack a punch when they hit.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.06.19 16:24:00 -
[11]
I have trouble tanking this mission... and by have trouble I mean it's one of the only missions that brings me close to my breaking point. Being tossed into the middle of them doesn't really help, and you might just want to AB away from them and hope to get out of their optimal.
I usually ignore the missile batteries, though. They do put out a lot of burst damage but they have a very long refire rate, and EM is the only damage they do iirc so with an armor tank shouldn't be too bad for you. The cruisers are what put out the most damage, IMO. Once those are dead the rest of the junk in there doesn't really hurt.
I like to believe that a change of tactics is all that's needed to complete a mission, rather than "train more skills" or "fly another ship" which are more like last resorts
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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Kzintee
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.19 17:42:00 -
[12]
I run this mission in a semi-passive CNR (2 EM, 2 Ther t2 hardeners + DC + shield rigs for about 250 EM/T EFT defense) without a single problem. Point and shoot. You're doing something very wrong if you can't keep this up in a Mega with that kind of defense rating.
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Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.06.19 17:45:00 -
[13]
I managed to do it in a non perma tanked raven, afaik, the sansha guys spew EM and Therm. It wasn't too pretty, just kil the sentries, then the BCs and cruisers.
If you wanna be safe, kill the 3 scrammers first.
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Ergoth 2020
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Posted - 2008.06.19 18:09:00 -
[14]
hey guys thanks 4 all the replies
to answer some questions i have thought of getting a domi but i really like my mega and was hoping to use it more i dont have the isk 4 domi yet so i trying with this.
i learning skills 4 t2 harners and LAR but gonna take a bit (i'm on l4 on both)
by the looks of i ppl seen to be doing this one with less tank which i really dont see how as with wot i've got i'm not lasting long enough to try and figure out who to try and take down.
is it pos that it could be bugged as i am literally only lasting about 1-2 mins if that
i'm going to try with some of ur setups and see what happens as its now after DT
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Kzintee
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.19 22:12:00 -
[15]
Ok...stupid question. What do you mean by "lasting only 1-2 min". - You are out of shield. Sorry, have to ask this. On a Mega this means nothing. - You are into structure. That's bad. - You are out of cap. That's also bad.
I loaded your setup into EFT and with my skills I can run everything permanently with Em/T defense rating of 930. That's quite a lot of defense.
Check to see if you're being NOS'ed. That's when you see an orange funnel that's extending around your ship appx where your shields might be. That'll make you run out of cap really quick.
What I think might be happening is that you simply arent killing things fast enough, which is easy to achieve with noob hybrids. Maybe a little cap drain here or there coupled with a lot of incoming DPS and not killing things fast enough could explain your troubles.
If that's the case, I got bad news for you. This mission is easy. There are many missions much harder than this, so I'm not sure how you'll fare in those. Better insure the ship.
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PhantomMajor
De-Medusa Industries.
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Posted - 2008.06.19 22:48:00 -
[16]
if you are still doing the first room on the second part of the mission, then get your mining gear out as there are some Frakking big omber roids in that room....simply clear the room of targets and mine, mine, mine. the go finish the second room.
even if you don't complete the mission in time for the time bonus the money you can make from the omber is more than worth it :-)
this news was brought to you by the "Carebear miners association"
Ladies and gentlemen, we will shortly be experiencing some exploding followed by some crashing...so i'd hold on if i were you! |
Ergoth 2020
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Posted - 2008.06.19 22:56:00 -
[17]
well to put perpective into time frames by the time i kill 1 cruiser i am half way through armor
now theres plenty there so i dread to think wot happens if i try kill more
i'm having to kill 1 warp out then rep etc
i'm sure that cant be right that tank should hold on longer than that surely
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Ergoth 2020
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Posted - 2008.06.19 23:10:00 -
[18]
well after getting tank to 885 and killing them off 1 by 1 i have reduced them to the stage that i can deal with them
i dunno how ppl can do it with less tank or as ppl were saying just killing them quicker cos there were eating my tank quick
well cheers all for help hope loot is worth it lol
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Kzintee
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.19 23:43:00 -
[19]
Well, big part of your problem right now is your lack of DPS, and it's only going to get worse.
It can not take you 1-2 minutes to kill 1 cruiser (or a BC). If it does, go back to lvl3 missions cause you will in fact make more ISK that way. And have significantly less risk.
Get t2 drones and train drone interfacing. Drones do wonders against cruisers and frigs.
Do not shoot cruisers first unless you can score a kill before said cruiser gets into orbit.
Your tracking at this point can not handle a cruiser in orbit. Nor will it be able to even after you train your skills up, hitting cruisers in 20km orbit is hard with 350mm.
Your best bet on this particular mission is to take out stationary targets first, the missile batteries. At the same time you just let your drones loose. Depending on your drone skills you may or may not want to control them manually...sucky drone skills will get your drones hung up on a t2 ceptor frigs (the 30,000 bounty ones that can outtank your med drones) while the rest of the gang pummel you to pieces.
I honestly don't know why you're having so much trouble, esp with an active tank. My CNR has: 2 EM hards 2 Therm hards. DCII Large shield ext. 2 field purger rigs, 1 shield extender rig.
This is my tank, and since we're using EFT, it has 240 defense against 50/50 EM/Therm damage. I have 20k shield with 80/83% on EM/Therm resists. I did this mission recently and I don't remember it (which meant it was not anything worth remembering). I have a t1 XL shield booster fitted for those moments when shields are down to below 30% (which does not happen very often)
So it's a mystery wrapped in an enigma but basically this means two things: - You lack skills. - If you want to stick to guns, you need to learn what to kill first. Or get rid of the guns. Guns are NOT easy to use (My first BS was a Rokh).
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Pteranodon
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Posted - 2008.06.20 12:55:00 -
[20]
We are back to that same old topic & it comes true so many times. You can't fly battleships with low skills. It is not enough to sit in a battleship- you need a good tank supported with all the supplementary skills.
I suggest you park that Battleship for a few months & train a solid tec2 tank & all associated skills. Then you will fly through missions at level 4 with much less concern than what you are having.
I reckon your base skill for battleships for level 4 missions must be around 8-10 million skill points- anything less & you will experience the problems you are getting & worse stand a chance of loosing that ship.
One final note for the trolling community I am not saying that you cant fly a BS with less points but being skilled right makes the experience far more rewarding.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.06.20 15:19:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 20/06/2008 15:20:36 can you post your skills+levels from categories: gunnery, engineering, mechanic and you Gal BS skill level ?
we can then make a better picture of your situation.
I am using a sentry Dominix and I can kill 1 cruiser every 8 seconds (2 drone+gun volleys). If you need 1 minute to kill one cruiser, you definitely lack DPS.
Forget the tractors, put a gun in the last turret slot. Also use an AB, head away from the rats to minimise transversal and fire away. concentrate drones and guns on one target to kill it quickly. always allign to a warp out object that is away from the NPCs so you can warp out instantly when needed.
With my skills, your setup deals 330DPS total (gal BS 5, large hybrid 4), which is very low. Definitely fit the 7th turret slot with another railgun or upgrade to 425mm rails, you have a tracking bonus on that ship, so it will help you offset the tracking loss.
As an alternative train for cruise missiles and use them in your 2 missile slots, they add decent dps and do not take capacitor. Something like this:
[Megathron, temp] Large Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II 2xArmor EM Hardener II 2xArmor Thermic Hardener II Capacitor Power Relay II
3xCap Recharger II LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
6x350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun 2x'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I
3xCapacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead I x5
With decent skills you can perma guns+lar+mar or guns+ab+lar depending on the situation. However it still has short range and shyti DPS. For a good capacitor save, use Thorium charges. You loose damage, but gain more cap/sec for tank/AB.
EDIT: As Pteradon noted, park the BS and run level 3 mission in a BC till you have better skills. Do not attempt Stop the Thief L4. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Revan Crow
KraehenKlaue
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Posted - 2008.06.23 11:10:00 -
[22]
last time ive done her i used 2 large SB and 4 sieges (on me phoon), went straight in the corner and disco'ed some towers while alligning and shooting at the other corners..... long ago, so i cant confirm this as still valid (did it the last time way before revelations)
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.06.23 21:37:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Pteranodon We are back to that same old topic & it comes true so many times. You can't fly battleships with low skills. It is not enough to sit in a battleship- you need a good tank supported with all the supplementary skills.
I suggest you park that Battleship for a few months & train a solid tec2 tank & all associated skills. Then you will fly through missions at level 4 with much less concern than what you are having.
I reckon your base skill for battleships for level 4 missions must be around 8-10 million skill points- anything less & you will experience the problems you are getting & worse stand a chance of loosing that ship.
One final note for the trolling community I am not saying that you cant fly a BS with less points but being skilled right makes the experience far more rewarding.
I completely disagree. I'll admit the OP's choice of ship isn't the most noob friendly, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be doing level 4's. It just means he might need a change of ship until his SP improve. Ships like the Domi/Raven adapt perfectly to low SP chars. Without knowing his exact SP I can't say for sure whether I think he personally should be attempting level 4 missions, but level 3 missions until 10 million SP? Lol? Please.
With eve survival and a noob-friendly BS, there's no reason not to be completing level 4 missions with only a few million SP. And that's with only minimal risk, i.e. the risk that you might shoot the wrong group or somehow pull the entire room. But absent a boneheaded mistake while warp scrambled, you aren't going to lose a BS with lower SP. A little competence goes a long way to making up a lack of SP, at least for missions (which are easy to begin with).
Advising people to spend months doing mind-numbingly easy low-pay missions (i.e. level 3's) is advising them to play a boring game imo. Taking a low SP char into level 4's is honestly one of the more fun parts of PVE in this game, heh. Level 4's lose any semblance of a challenge once you learn the missions/get higher SP.
IMO, OP, get a dominix (or a Raven if you prefer) and try again once you train some basic skills if you don't have them already (i.e. armor tanking, heavy/sentry drones). You don't need t2 drones. You don't need t2 LAR's. You don't need t2 hardeners. And enjoy the challenge the missions provide while you can, heh.
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Ergoth 2020
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:41:00 -
[24]
well i have done a few more lvl 4 and had no issues since this one a few times i have had to warp out but other than that its all good. i have got myself a domi now but to be honest i prefer the mega cos it is just that bit more fun.
i have 5mil sp spread between drones/gunery/support skills
lvl4 missions are so much better isk wise
i just need to find an agent thats not near blow sec cos i keep gettin missions there
all good so far and thanks for all tips they all helping
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Rude Bwoy
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Posted - 2008.06.24 11:40:00 -
[25]
don't aim for cruisers first.
Drop the sentries/ missile batteries first - they're pretty easy to kill. Use AM Large ammo.
Who's the rudest of them all! |
Ritzenhoff
Fabian Strategy
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Posted - 2008.06.24 11:53:00 -
[26]
Sounds to me like your problem is tracking. Once cruisers and frigates start orbitting you, your guns can't keep up with their speed and you can barely hit them, especially with that setup (the worst tracking guns with no tracking computer or enhancers) and presumably low skills.
In this mission the tracking problem is especially bad since you are basically chucked right into the mix with the cruisers orbiting you almost instantly (in other missions they are easy to kill because they have to approach you first, which is when they are vulnerable).
Take out the guns and battleships with your Mega, use your drones on the cruisers and frigs.
It's not a particularly hard mission, it's just that it doesn't suit the ship you are using.
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Pteranodon
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Posted - 2008.06.24 14:08:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Pteranodon on 24/06/2008 14:15:11 Edited by: Pteranodon on 24/06/2008 14:09:19
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: Pteranodon We are back to that same old topic & it comes true so many times. You can't fly battleships with low skills. It is not enough to sit in a battleship- you need a good tank supported with all the supplementary skills.
I suggest you park that Battleship for a few months & train a solid tec2 tank & all associated skills. Then you will fly through missions at level 4 with much less concern than what you are having.
I reckon your base skill for battleships for level 4 missions must be around 8-10 million skill points- anything less & you will experience the problems you are getting & worse stand a chance of loosing that ship.
One final note for the trolling community I am not saying that you cant fly a BS with less points but being skilled right makes the experience far more rewarding.
I completely disagree. I'll admit the OP's choice of ship isn't the most noob friendly, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be doing level 4's. It just means he might need a change of ship until his SP improve. Ships like the Domi/Raven adapt perfectly to low SP chars. Without knowing his exact SP I can't say for sure whether I think he personally should be attempting level 4 missions, but level 3 missions until 10 million SP? Lol? Please.
With eve survival and a noob-friendly BS, there's no reason not to be completing level 4 missions with only a few million SP. And that's with only minimal risk, i.e. the risk that you might shoot the wrong group or somehow pull the entire room. But absent a boneheaded mistake while warp scrambled, you aren't going to lose a BS with lower SP. A little competence goes a long way to making up a lack of SP, at least for missions (which are easy to begin with).
Advising people to spend months doing mind-numbingly easy low-pay missions (i.e. level 3's) is advising them to play a boring game imo. Taking a low SP char into level 4's is honestly one of the more fun parts of PVE in this game, heh. Level 4's lose any semblance of a challenge once you learn the missions/get higher SP.
IMO, OP, get a dominix (or a Raven if you prefer) and try again once you train some basic skills if you don't have them already (i.e. armor tanking, heavy/sentry drones). You don't need t2 drones. You don't need t2 LAR's. You don't need t2 hardeners. And enjoy the challenge the missions provide while you can, heh.
As I said in my last paragraph I'm not saying that you cant fly a BS with less points but to fly it properly with acceptable risk balance takes more than a few million skill points.
Even the Raven takes 5-6 million skill points until it can tank acceptably & give good returns from missile damage. How do I know these things....because I've been where the OP has been & now missions are much more fun with a wide choice of ships & weapons & T2 defence.
One final thought to consider. Why did I train all my battleships to BS5? (Gallente & Caldari)-if you think level4-5 does not make a difference-try it & see-the difference is big very BIG.
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.06.24 15:03:00 -
[28]
Your argument is derailing quickly. I never said, nor am I saying now, that missioning with max skills is not more efficient than missioning with low skills. Of COURSE BS 5 is useful. Of COURSE T2 weapons are useful. Hell, also having full Estamel's gear would be useful. That does NOT lead to the conclusion that you should wait to do level 4's until you have max skills and a full Estamel-fit BS.
The proper time to start level 4 missions is simply when your personal risk/reward analysis says it's time. That can be with just a few million SP in a Dominix or Raven, depending on the player. You might find it fun to be able to fly multiple BS with max skills and T2 guns, but that has jack to do with when someone should start level 4's.
If a new player wants to start level 4's with only a few million SP, he can and should do so imo. He will be slower than a higher-SP player, but that's irrelevant. He might not have the option to fly multiple BS with T2 gear, but that's irrelevant. So long as he uses eve-survival, plays cautiously and preferrably uses a noob-friendly ship, he'll make substantially more cash than he would from level 3's. And more importantly, he'll be doing what he wants to do (level 4 missions).
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Pteranodon
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Posted - 2008.06.25 15:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Boz Well Your argument is derailing quickly. I never said, nor am I saying now, that missioning with max skills is not more efficient than missioning with low skills. Of COURSE BS 5 is useful. Of COURSE T2 weapons are useful. Hell, also having full Estamel's gear would be useful. That does NOT lead to the conclusion that you should wait to do level 4's until you have max skills and a full Estamel-fit BS.
The proper time to start level 4 missions is simply when your personal risk/reward analysis says it's time. That can be with just a few million SP in a Dominix or Raven, depending on the player. You might find it fun to be able to fly multiple BS with max skills and T2 guns, but that has jack to do with when someone should start level 4's.
If a new player wants to start level 4's with only a few million SP, he can and should do so imo. He will be slower than a higher-SP player, but that's irrelevant. He might not have the option to fly multiple BS with T2 gear, but that's irrelevant. So long as he uses eve-survival, plays cautiously and preferrably uses a noob-friendly ship, he'll make substantially more cash than he would from level 3's. And more importantly, he'll be doing what he wants to do (level 4 missions).
Everybody in Eve can do what they want. I guess if you haven't got a tec2 tank or tec2 this or that that is fine. Tec2 is only a consequence of being better-it is not the be all of everything but it sure helps. Do it your way I'm only trying to add value & certainly not trying to upset anybody I mean I've only got a standing of 9+ with Caldari Navy through mission running so I'm not really that qualified to make these comments.
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Bald Rikk
The Legendary Fleet
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Posted - 2008.06.26 23:00:00 -
[30]
You need to achieve one of two things. Better tracking Slower targets
I'd recommend slower targets... fit a statis webifier.
You may also consider blasters for the improbed tracking they offer and better DPS. But you wil have to work more to manage range.
-- Baldrikk
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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