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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2681
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:27:00 -
[1591] - Quote
Gertrud ToD wrote: funny how one of your co-csm's allready disagreed with that *before* your post. btw, hes not in PL, have fun searching the post.
the one who didn't participate at all? |
Triskian
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:29:00 -
[1592] - Quote
Gertrud ToD wrote: funny how one of your co-csm's allready disagreed with that *before* your post. btw, hes not in PL, have fun searching the post.
Funny how you ignored CCP Greyscale calling said co-csm out for refusing to actually participate in the discussion the Devs had with the CSM. |
Razzor Death
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
166
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:29:00 -
[1593] - Quote
The greatest part about this thread is reading how PL encourage the change but express fear in how they go about the change and what new role they will have ( understandable ) and then reading Raiden and NCdot crying like big babbis about how unfair this is and its all a Goon conspiracy and Goon's getting their way and we are the horrible blobbers.
Fun fact Raiden and NCdot, every big fight we had ( every single big fight ) CCP was in local with us. They could see damn well you was NOT being blobbed and that the numbers where even and that the Titans where dropped to simply win your objectives with out contest.
But please keep this up its ******* hilarious but the only people you are fooling are the pubbies and not CCP. |
Khadmos
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Fatal Ascension
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:29:00 -
[1594] - Quote
Roime wrote:
What about the claim I've seen that dreads can also counter titans?
That's theory crafting BS. Look at it this way, one DD and a dread is almost dead, regular guns will finish it off fast. A dread fleet going up against titans is a suicide fleet. The CFC tried it, lost something like 36 dreads to kill 1 titan and I think the titan only died because it was bumped or something. In the end lost over 250bil in ships and destroyed 80-90bil. Oh and I'm pretty sure failed to defend/destroy their objective.
Roime wrote:
And about titan tracking (current version) - can they track for example BCs that are in close orbit?
My Talos one-shots moving frigates at 40km, but can't touch them if they get close- this is balanced. How is it with titan guns?
You orbit one titan at 20km and his buddy sitting 60km away blaps you when you have 0 traversal. A titan is not imbalanced, one titan is not a problem. The problem is titans, 20+ in a fleet all spread out with 20 DD's to nearly instagib the first 20 dreads that land on the field. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5527
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:30:00 -
[1595] - Quote
Swearte Widfarend wrote:I supposed if you are with a good anchor who is doing more than "keep at range" you might get a bit more transversal up to a single opponent. The issue that Vile Rat has (and I don't disagree with the issue) is that when you have a lot of turret Titans on grid, at some point you are going to have a really low transversal to some of them. The problem isn't a single Titan (although that is a separate problem), the problem is a fleet of them. So what CCP has tried to do is to ensure that even if you have the SP and ISK to field a fleet of Titans, you can't hit subcaps. But they missed the target. GǪand I understand this. I'm merely pointing out the fallacy of the categorical GÇ£MWD GåÆ carrier sigGÇ¥ claim, which completely ignores why people fit MWDs to begin with and the effect it has. I'm also pointing out that the effect the MWD has is pretty much irrelvant since they're balanced in such a way that (subject to meta differences in the penalties, of course) the compound effect of bloom and speed means you're pretty much just as easy or hard to hit as if you had the MWD off. The MWD isn't a factor in hitting the target.
Hell, I even made the same argument you did at the very start of the page when someone asked why on earth a Titan would even want to lock on to a cruiserGǪ (and was called silly and ignorant for doing so).
What you describe is an issue with or without MWD GÇö it's an effect of zero angular velocity, and no amount of sig bloom (or sig reduction) changes that effect. That's my entire point: that the whole MWD argument is a red herring from people who seemingly don't understand what affects tracking. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
GeneralDisturbed
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
48
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:30:00 -
[1596] - Quote
Gertrud ToD wrote:GeneralDisturbed wrote:Triskian wrote:Good morning thread. I see some of you have been busy overnight.
Can someone recap the last 11 pages for me please? PL/Raiden continue to ignore all arguments to the contrary, and keep pretending that they're a battered alliance of 200 desperate people fighting 1600 goons, and the only thing saving them is their not-overpowred titan "equalizers". the numbers are 2000 raiden vs 8000 goons.
That's very interesting, considering the largest fight I've been present in, in eve, was the recent fight over our old homeland with the russians. And that involved most every major alliance in the game sending fleets. And local barely hit 2000. Considering goons were only a small part of that fight, I'm not sure where our other 7500 are hiding, but I'd love to know.
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BioZvin
The Ankou Raiden.
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:32:00 -
[1597] - Quote
GeneralDisturbed wrote:baltec1 wrote:BioZvin wrote:Ok lets talk fair, why should a sub cap even be able to damage a Titan... if you NEEDED to field capitals to hurt titans this might not be so bad. But you want to be able to kill them and hold them down. Without ever risking anything yourself, like your own cap fleet.... The irony of this is that titans risk nothing while subcaps get torn apart. The true irony is that they just ignore the fact that Titans are completely invincible when in a blob, unless you bring enough supercapitals to outnumber them. So literally the 'blobbing' these guys whine so much about is THEM. Any battleship fleet of any size can be countered and killed by better pilots, better tactics, a better fleet composition. As it stands, the only thing that can fight titans is a bigger blob of titans. It's them. They are the real blobbers.
you know you have as big a cap fleet as us right ? |
Sentinel Eeex
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:33:00 -
[1598] - Quote
Tobruk wrote:Vile rat wrote:Tobruk wrote:
Tell me about Being Objective CCP Grayscale you tool.
I can wait for your next announcement showing us all the brilliantly thought out counter to 800 maelstroms.
A calculator. So you can count the numbers of our enemies and realize this is a red herring since they bring as many on the field as we do. maybe you should grab one and calculate how many dreads it takes to kill our titans and how long that would take given your current tech income. but no you should just ignore the best and most viable counter to titans then expect CCP Sound-wave, and CCP Screegs to slobber your rod.
Hey, let me drop 300 years of skill training on your 50 years of skill training, hoping that we might kill 4 years of skill training because you blapped all the dictors.
I don't see any flaws there.
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Razzor Death
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
166
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:33:00 -
[1599] - Quote
If we could get 8000 people in fleet I assure this game would be dead as all of High sec would be burnt to the ground. |
Gertrud ToD
Terrorists of Dimensions Electric Monkey Overlords
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:35:00 -
[1600] - Quote
GeneralDisturbed wrote: That's very interesting, considering the largest fight I've been present in, in eve, was the recent fight over our old homeland with the russians. And that involved most every major alliance in the game sending fleets. And local barely hit 2000. Considering goons were only a small part of that fight, I'm not sure where our other 7500 are hiding, but I'd love to know.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/memberCount |
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Triskian
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:36:00 -
[1601] - Quote
Razzor Death wrote:If we could get 8000 people in fleet I assure this game would be dead as all of High sec would be burnt to the ground.
The thought of 8000 Brutixes and Tornados sweeping through empire leading nothing in their wake unmolested makes me hard. |
Razzor Death
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
166
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:36:00 -
[1602] - Quote
BioZvin wrote:GeneralDisturbed wrote:baltec1 wrote:BioZvin wrote:Ok lets talk fair, why should a sub cap even be able to damage a Titan... if you NEEDED to field capitals to hurt titans this might not be so bad. But you want to be able to kill them and hold them down. Without ever risking anything yourself, like your own cap fleet.... The irony of this is that titans risk nothing while subcaps get torn apart. The true irony is that they just ignore the fact that Titans are completely invincible when in a blob, unless you bring enough supercapitals to outnumber them. So literally the 'blobbing' these guys whine so much about is THEM. Any battleship fleet of any size can be countered and killed by better pilots, better tactics, a better fleet composition. As it stands, the only thing that can fight titans is a bigger blob of titans. It's them. They are the real blobbers. you know you have as big a cap fleet as us right ?
hahaha you are so dumb, I mean just look at you. Sorry princess CCP know we are not just fighting you and you know this as well. Lets see ima pick another Alliance in our 2 coalitions and just use them as an example so I can be as dumb as you.
You have more supers than FA.
Yeah, that's how dumb you look. |
Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
88
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:37:00 -
[1603] - Quote
Gertrud ToD wrote:GeneralDisturbed wrote: That's very interesting, considering the largest fight I've been present in, in eve, was the recent fight over our old homeland with the russians. And that involved most every major alliance in the game sending fleets. And local barely hit 2000. Considering goons were only a small part of that fight, I'm not sure where our other 7500 are hiding, but I'd love to know.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/memberCount I am pretty sure that most of those numbers are from a concerted effort to scam the CSM election this time around. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2876
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:37:00 -
[1604] - Quote
Gertrud ToD wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/memberCount
confirming that every single character in our alliance is an individual account belonging to an individual player and is capable of fielding a maelstrom "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Sentinel Eeex
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:38:00 -
[1605] - Quote
Tobruk wrote:Vile rat wrote:Tobruk wrote:
maybe you should grab one and calculate how many dreads it takes to kill our titans and how long that would take given your current tech income.
Are you really going to make me detail the many holes in this plan? Is this something you're seriously suggesting or are you just trolling me? No way, you gotta just be trolling me. im not trolling Vile rat. you made a choice to invest your income and time in a specific fleet doctrine, one that vee invented to counter armor hacs and abandons. It was the wrong choice. Had you been able to field 300 or more dreads there is no FC in his right mind who would have opposed you with titans. Those same dreads can work unsieged like titans and do the same volly damage at the same range as maelstroms. but this discussion is an academic one as CCP is playing favorites, your CEO has said as much.
Haha, you are actually really stupid, you are not trolling.
"Dear Titans, please stay on grid while we assemble and login our 300 dreads fleet".
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BioZvin
The Ankou Raiden.
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:40:00 -
[1606] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:BioZvin wrote:Ok lets talk fair, why should a sub cap even be able to damage a Titan... if you NEEDED to field capitals to hurt titans this might not be so bad. But you want to be able to kill them and hold them down. Without ever risking anything yourself, like your own cap fleet.... "by spending 60b i should be invulnerable to the little people" is the antithisis of EVE no surprise it comes from bob mk4
i have no problem with the way it is or was, or even an change to tracking. I have a problem with my ship being effectively the only ship that can do nothing at all to a ship of another class. A battleship can hit a ceptor, most even have drones to defend it self. And lets be honest here a titan on its own atm can't even defend itself vs one dictor/HIC.
in original post i assumed that titans will be useless against all sub caps, witch I personalty think this nuff will do. But if it doesn't wait a month... |
baltec1
810
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:43:00 -
[1607] - Quote
BioZvin wrote: i have no problem with the way it is or was, or even an change to tracking. I have a problem with my ship being effectively the only ship that can do nothing at all to a ship of another class. A battleship can hit a ceptor, most even have drones to defend it self. And lets be honest here a titan on its own atm can't even defend itself vs one dictor/HIC.
in original post i assumed that titans will be useless against all sub caps, witch I personalty think this nuff will do. But if it doesn't wait a month...
You dont want your ship to be nerfed to be useless without support yet defend the right to invalidate 99% of ships in EVE... |
Dasdraperma
ReUnion Inc. SOLAR WING
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:43:00 -
[1608] - Quote
Looks like Goons have forum CTA today, defending this nerf? :) |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2876
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:44:00 -
[1609] - Quote
BioZvin wrote:And lets be honest here a titan on its own atm can't even defend itself vs one dictor/HIC.
I think it's /fairly/ reasonable that a solo titan should be extremely vulnerable against a dictor or HIC, don't you agree? "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2876
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:44:00 -
[1610] - Quote
Dasdraperma wrote:Looks like Goons have forum CTA today, defending this nerf? :)
goons, a bunch of dudes coming from a forum, are posting
what a shock "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
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BioZvin
The Ankou Raiden.
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:46:00 -
[1611] - Quote
Andski wrote:BioZvin wrote:And lets be honest here a titan on its own atm can't even defend itself vs one dictor/HIC. I think it's /fairly/ reasonable that a solo titan should be extremely vulnerable against a dictor or HIC, don't you agree?
Why should it be more than a BS vs a interceptor.
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baltec1
811
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:46:00 -
[1612] - Quote
Dasdraperma wrote:Looks like Goons have forum CTA today, defending this nerf? :)
Who needs a CTA. You dont often get a much needed nerf that causes tears of this magnitude. Why I haven't seen bawwing like this since the last time titans got changed. |
Sentinel Eeex
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:48:00 -
[1613] - Quote
Acwron wrote:GeneralDisturbed wrote:The amount of neutral PL/Raiden alts in this thread, desperately clinging to the entitled notion that they should be allowed to fly around in unkillable ships because they paid a little more isk, is amazing. When every other ship in the game can be killed by subcaps, but you drop titans and suddenly subcaps are meaningless. If 1600 people show up to take someone's space, and they can only field 200 guys, then THEY DO NOT DESERVE THAT SPACE. This is how the world works. You should not magically be allowed to pick space and control it because you can stick 50 guys into a super ship, and stand it up to 1600 people. OMG, really? You are really, really disturbed son. So we paid a little more iskie...just a little. A LITTLE ? You come with 1600 maels and wanna kill 50 titans? Man, I'd like to have what this guy smoked, seems to be good shite.
Yeah, that'd be approximately 1000 years of skill training wanting to kill your 100 years of skill training.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2876
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:49:00 -
[1614] - Quote
BioZvin wrote:Andski wrote:BioZvin wrote:And lets be honest here a titan on its own atm can't even defend itself vs one dictor/HIC. I think it's /fairly/ reasonable that a solo titan should be extremely vulnerable against a dictor or HIC, don't you agree? Why should it be more than a BS vs a interceptor.
Anything that can fit a point/scram can tackle a battleship. Only a dictor/hictor can tackle a titan. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Crystal Wolf
Invision Hosting Invision Group
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:50:00 -
[1615] - Quote
Andski wrote:BioZvin wrote:And lets be honest here a titan on its own atm can't even defend itself vs one dictor/HIC. I think it's /fairly/ reasonable that a solo titan should be extremely vulnerable against a dictor or HIC, don't you agree?
This is agreeable a titan on its own should vulnerable it shouldn't be a case of a Dicotr/HIC just being a splattered fly on the titan's windshield as it were.
But the use of singular titans isn't what this discussion should be focusing on as it has been established that a singular titan doesn't pose a huge problem. The main focus here is titan blobs and attempting to produce an effective solution. Invision Hosting - Providing Quality service solutions Forum Topic: Here |
BioZvin
The Ankou Raiden.
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:51:00 -
[1616] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:BioZvin wrote: i have no problem with the way it is or was, or even an change to tracking. I have a problem with my ship being effectively the only ship that can do nothing at all to a ship of another class. A battleship can hit a ceptor, most even have drones to defend it self. And lets be honest here a titan on its own atm can't even defend itself vs one dictor/HIC.
in original post i assumed that titans will be useless against all sub caps, witch I personalty think this nuff will do. But if it doesn't wait a month...
You dont want your ship to be nerfed to be useless without support yet defend the right to invalidate 99% of ships in EVE...
So wait a ship is invalidated when it cannot do anything against another one ? |
baltec1
811
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:52:00 -
[1617] - Quote
BioZvin wrote:
So wait a ship is invalidated when it cannot do anything against another one ?
Welcome to all subcaps and carriers/dreads lives over the last year. |
Pesadel0
the muppets RED.OverLord
30
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:54:00 -
[1618] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:BioZvin wrote:
So wait a ship is invalidated when it cannot do anything against another one ?
Welcome to all subcaps and carriers/dreads lives over the last year.
I will laugh real hard when pl deploys 250 carriers with sentrys , then you will say the carriers are overpowered ?
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Handsome Ben Cheese
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:55:00 -
[1619] - Quote
Gertrud ToD wrote:GeneralDisturbed wrote: That's very interesting, considering the largest fight I've been present in, in eve, was the recent fight over our old homeland with the russians. And that involved most every major alliance in the game sending fleets. And local barely hit 2000. Considering goons were only a small part of that fight, I'm not sure where our other 7500 are hiding, but I'd love to know.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/memberCount My Rifter will bring death to the infidels! |
Gertrud ToD
Terrorists of Dimensions Electric Monkey Overlords
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:57:00 -
[1620] - Quote
Crystal Wolf wrote: But the use of singular titans isn't what this discussion should be focusing on as it has been established that a singular titan doesn't pose a huge problem. The main focus here is titan blobs and attempting to produce an effective solution.
well this nerf only focuses on the aspect of a titan "blob" of say 50 titans.
this nerf will mean two things - a) a huge bc/bs blob (many more ships than 50, lets say 600) like goons field them will now be the new winning-blob variant. b) point a) will be invalid as soon as the ones who are currently fielding 50 titans will field 100 titans
so actually all the nerf does is shift the power from the current "winners" to the current "losers" of a specific conflict, at a time that is very inconveniant for those having titans now, but in the long run will allow them to simply up the numbers and swing the pendulum back.
and thats actually what most people have been critizising, its not fixing the problem at all, just doing a power shift in the current situation.
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