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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Triskian
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
82
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Posted - 2012.03.14 15:57:00 -
[1621] - Quote
Handsome Ben Cheese wrote:Gertrud ToD wrote:GeneralDisturbed wrote: That's very interesting, considering the largest fight I've been present in, in eve, was the recent fight over our old homeland with the russians. And that involved most every major alliance in the game sending fleets. And local barely hit 2000. Considering goons were only a small part of that fight, I'm not sure where our other 7500 are hiding, but I'd love to know.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/memberCount My Rifter will bring death to the infidels!
ALLAHU ACKBAR! |
Acwron
Meet The Fockers Vera Cruz Alliance
16
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Posted - 2012.03.14 15:57:00 -
[1622] - Quote
Sentinel Eeex wrote:Acwron wrote:GeneralDisturbed wrote:The amount of neutral PL/Raiden alts in this thread, desperately clinging to the entitled notion that they should be allowed to fly around in unkillable ships because they paid a little more isk, is amazing. When every other ship in the game can be killed by subcaps, but you drop titans and suddenly subcaps are meaningless. If 1600 people show up to take someone's space, and they can only field 200 guys, then THEY DO NOT DESERVE THAT SPACE. This is how the world works. You should not magically be allowed to pick space and control it because you can stick 50 guys into a super ship, and stand it up to 1600 people. OMG, really? You are really, really disturbed son. So we paid a little more iskie...just a little. A LITTLE ? You come with 1600 maels and wanna kill 50 titans? Man, I'd like to have what this guy smoked, seems to be good shite. Yeah, that'd be approximately 1000 years of skill training wanting to kill your 100 years of skill training.
Funny way to see it. Well, not funny. Plain stupid. Nothing new. Go back scamming in Jita. Ah, forgot about it, you run a bot for that. |
BioZvin
The Ankou Raiden.
7
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Posted - 2012.03.14 15:57:00 -
[1623] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:BioZvin wrote:
So wait a ship is invalidated when it cannot do anything against another one ?
Welcome to all subcaps and carriers/dreads lives over the last year.
I have seen more then one Titan go down to sub caps, you are right you cannot take down a big group of supers without bringing some firepower yourself.. But as the NC war showed us NC took down quite a few titans with sub caps alone. A few WN ones comes to mind, and at the time we had more titans in the coalition then RDN has now. POST last nerf |
Khadmos
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Fatal Ascension
36
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:00:00 -
[1624] - Quote
BioZvin wrote:baltec1 wrote:BioZvin wrote:
So wait a ship is invalidated when it cannot do anything against another one ?
Welcome to all subcaps and carriers/dreads lives over the last year. I have seen more then one Titan go down to sub caps, you are right you cannot take down a big group of supers without bringing some firepower yourself.. But as the NC war showed us NC took down quite a few titans with sub caps alone. A few WN ones comes to mind, and at the time we had more titans in the coalition then RDN has now. POST last nerf
I'm sure those titans were in a fleet of 20+ other titans as well? |
Pesadel0
the muppets RED.OverLord
30
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:04:00 -
[1625] - Quote
Khadmos wrote:BioZvin wrote:baltec1 wrote:BioZvin wrote:
So wait a ship is invalidated when it cannot do anything against another one ?
Welcome to all subcaps and carriers/dreads lives over the last year. I have seen more then one Titan go down to sub caps, you are right you cannot take down a big group of supers without bringing some firepower yourself.. But as the NC war showed us NC took down quite a few titans with sub caps alone. A few WN ones comes to mind, and at the time we had more titans in the coalition then RDN has now. POST last nerf I'm sure those titans were in a fleet of 20+ other titans as well?
Nop they were in a fleet full of drakes and maelstroms fighting the god fight :) |
Gertrud ToD
Terrorists of Dimensions Electric Monkey Overlords
3
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:05:00 -
[1626] - Quote
BioZvin wrote:Andski wrote:BioZvin wrote:And lets be honest here a titan on its own atm can't even defend itself vs one dictor/HIC. I think it's /fairly/ reasonable that a solo titan should be extremely vulnerable against a dictor or HIC, don't you agree? Why should it be more than a BS vs a interceptor. you should explain that a bit: a bs with a skilled pilot can do several maneuvers when fighting against an interceptor (depending on the intercetors fit), either putting the interceptor to a eliptical orbit, which allows for tracking, slowing down the interceptor, use the drones..
the titan vs the interdictor however is pretty much dead in the water. |
Slapnuts McGee
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
32
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:08:00 -
[1627] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Slapnuts McGee wrote:baltec1 wrote:Slapnuts McGee wrote:
Then you must agree that these changes will still leave us with a broken ship, I don't see the point in making changes until CCP defines the role they want this ship to fill.
I'll take a bandaid over what we have now. no, because people will still cry when their mwd'ing drake gets blapped by a titan. Bandaid doesn't do any good, I agree there needs to be a complete overhaul of the ship but this isn't the way to go about it putting "duct tape" over the problem and hoping it goes away. Still better than what we have now, plus CCP are going to keep an eye on it and make adjustments as needed.
not trying to troll you, but CCP have a bad record of not revisiting these "adjustments" and leaving it broken for several years. yes it's needs change but let's do it right. |
Crystal Wolf
Invision Hosting Invision Group
3
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:08:00 -
[1628] - Quote
Gertrud ToD wrote:Crystal Wolf wrote: But the use of singular titans isn't what this discussion should be focusing on as it has been established that a singular titan doesn't pose a huge problem. The main focus here is titan blobs and attempting to produce an effective solution.
well this nerf only focuses on the aspect of a titan "blob" of say 50 titans. this nerf will mean two things - a) a huge bc/bs blob (many more ships than 50, lets say 600) like goons field them will now be the new winning-blob variant. b) point a) will be invalid as soon as the ones who are currently fielding 50 titans will field 100 titans so actually all the nerf does is shift the power from the current "winners" to the current "losers" of a specific conflict, at a time that is very inconveniant for those having titans now, but in the long run will allow them to simply up the numbers and swing the pendulum back. and thats actually what most people have been critizising, its not fixing the problem at all, just doing a power shift in the current situation.
This is true however CCP in response to one of my earlier posts said that almost anything that reduces titan numbers and titan blobbing is considered a desirable outcome. So yes you may be right but if alliances start fielding more titans to combat the nerf then CCP will just try something else which may generate more tears than we have at the moment.
The biggest problem with this thread is a lack of solid direction you just have people posting god knows what by page 80. Don't get me wrong there have been many intelligent responses to this thread but things like some of the goon conspiracy posts i have been seeing don't help things at all. Invision Hosting - Providing Quality service solutions Forum Topic: Here |
Sentinel Eeex
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 16:15:00 -
[1629] - Quote
Acwron wrote:Sentinel Eeex wrote:Acwron wrote:GeneralDisturbed wrote:The amount of neutral PL/Raiden alts in this thread, desperately clinging to the entitled notion that they should be allowed to fly around in unkillable ships because they paid a little more isk, is amazing. When every other ship in the game can be killed by subcaps, but you drop titans and suddenly subcaps are meaningless. If 1600 people show up to take someone's space, and they can only field 200 guys, then THEY DO NOT DESERVE THAT SPACE. This is how the world works. You should not magically be allowed to pick space and control it because you can stick 50 guys into a super ship, and stand it up to 1600 people. OMG, really? You are really, really disturbed son. So we paid a little more iskie...just a little. A LITTLE ? You come with 1600 maels and wanna kill 50 titans? Man, I'd like to have what this guy smoked, seems to be good shite. Yeah, that'd be approximately 1000 years of skill training wanting to kill your 100 years of skill training. Funny way to see it. Well, not funny. Plain stupid. Nothing new. Go back scamming in Jita. Ah, forgot about it, you run a bot for that.
ISK numbers are, of course, more important than any other numbers.
Tell me, if logic is that 10bil ISK shouldn't be able to kill 100bil ISK, why is it then ok that 2.5bil SP should kill 25bil SP?
A mystery.
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Sentinel Eeex
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 16:15:00 -
[1630] - Quote
Slapnuts McGee wrote:Vile rat wrote:Slapnuts McGee wrote:Vile rat wrote:Slapnuts McGee wrote: We're telling you right now, these changes will not stop blapping and people will still cry about it. All that will happen at the moment is it will delay how long it takes titans to start shooting stuff.
This is actually somewhat true. Strong drop does adjust things back to a broken state. Then you must agree that these changes will still leave us with a broken ship, I don't see the point in making changes until CCP defines the role they want this ship to fill. Would you be happier with -75% instead of -50%? It's still only a short term fix, I think it would make everyone happy if CCP would actually figure out what they want this ship to do and make it enjoyable to fly wheather it serve a non combat or combat role. These "fixes" aren't going to do any good and have the possibility to turn these back into a nonused pos princess which gives no incentive to people to train up it.
"Cmon CCP, we only want to be able to blap frigates with Titans for a wee bit longer... pretty please?"
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Styrling
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:17:00 -
[1631] - Quote
Seriouspost, it seems like you lowballed the tracking nerf required.
I was playing around with my Ragnarok to see some tracking numbers I can come to within nearly 90% of the tracking of a 1400mm Maelstrom without going full pimp fit.
3x Meta 13 Tracking Comps 3x Meta 13 Tracking Enhancers 2x Meta 13 Sensor Boosters - Lock time gonna blow :frogcawg: Strong Drop and an ax-2.5 or Ogdin's
With all this the Titan still has ~16m EHP
Tracking is around 0.0133 compared to around 0.015 for a normal 1400 Mael.
Maybe you should aim for 75-85%?
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Swearte Widfarend
Mortis Noir. Ineluctable.
55
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:18:00 -
[1632] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Swearte Widfarend wrote:I supposed if you are with a good anchor who is doing more than "keep at range" you might get a bit more transversal up to a single opponent. The issue that Vile Rat has (and I don't disagree with the issue) is that when you have a lot of turret Titans on grid, at some point you are going to have a really low transversal to some of them. The problem isn't a single Titan (although that is a separate problem), the problem is a fleet of them. So what CCP has tried to do is to ensure that even if you have the SP and ISK to field a fleet of Titans, you can't hit subcaps. But they missed the target. GǪand I understand this. I'm merely pointing out the fallacy of the categorical GÇ£MWD GåÆ carrier sigGÇ¥ claim, which completely ignores why people fit MWDs to begin with and the effect it has. I'm also pointing out that the effect the MWD has is pretty much irrelvant since they're balanced in such a way that (subject to meta differences in the penalties, of course) the compound effect of bloom and speed means you're pretty much just as easy or hard to hit as if you had the MWD off. The MWD isn't a factor in hitting the target. Hell, I even made the same argument you did at the very start of the page when someone asked why on earth a Titan would even want to lock on to a cruiserGǪ (and was called silly and ignorant for doing so). What you describe is an issue with or without MWD GÇö it's an effect of zero angular velocity, and no amount of sig bloom (or sig reduction) changes that effect. That's my entire point: that the whole MWD argument is a red herring from people who seemingly don't understand what affects tracking.
Sorry I'm covering two birds with one stone. The targeting to hit won't matter, and the scan res nerd won't matter. One is affected by the MWD bloom (the Scan Res nerf) and one is affected by the tracking change (50% reduction). Sadly, they are still irrelevant to the respective issues on the battlefield. CCP is changing ship skill trees. How ship skills should be |
EnderCapitalG
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
356
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 16:18:00 -
[1633] - Quote
Guys my ship costs a lot and I have more SP than you so I should win! |
Slapnuts McGee
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
32
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 16:24:00 -
[1634] - Quote
Sentinel Eeex wrote: "Cmon CCP, we only want to be able to blap frigates with Titans for a wee bit longer... pretty please?"
hey nerd, read my earlier post where I said go ahead and nerf tracking 50% or whatever where we won't hit frigates. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5527
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 16:24:00 -
[1635] - Quote
Styrling wrote:3x Meta 13 Tracking Comps 3x Meta 13 Tracking Enhancers 2x Meta 13 Sensor Boosters - Lock time gonna blow :frogcawg: Strong Drop and an ax-2.5 or Ogdin's
With all this the Titan still has ~16m EHP
Tracking is around 0.0133 compared to around 0.015 for a normal 1400 Mael. GǪdivided by four due to the signature resolution, so around 0.0033 compared to around 0.015. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Styrling
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 16:25:00 -
[1636] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Styrling wrote:3x Meta 13 Tracking Comps 3x Meta 13 Tracking Enhancers 2x Meta 13 Sensor Boosters - Lock time gonna blow :frogcawg: Strong Drop and an ax-2.5 or Ogdin's
With all this the Titan still has ~16m EHP
Tracking is around 0.0133 compared to around 0.015 for a normal 1400 Mael. GǪdivided by four due to the signature resolution, so around 0.0033 compared to around 0.015.
No Logic this is an eve-o thread. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5527
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 16:27:00 -
[1637] - Quote
Styrling wrote:No Logic this is an eve-o thread. That's ok, I got the divisor wrong at first anywayGǪ fixed now.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Styrling
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 16:29:00 -
[1638] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Styrling wrote:No Logic this is an eve-o thread. That's ok, I got the divisor wrong at first anywayGǪ fixed now.
NO worries bro, Here are some sick numbers
7x Cormack's Tracking Comps - Scripted 5x Tobias' Modified TE's Strong Drop Ogdin's Eye DC II Tank
0.01515 Tracking
75% tracking nerf or bust |
Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
583
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 16:34:00 -
[1639] - Quote
GeneralDisturbed wrote:The point of all this is, all these fleets require coordination and precision to win, and ALL OF THEM HAVE A CHANCE. You drop 300 ships on 200 ships, both sides can still win. You drop 50 titans on 300 ships, 400 ships, 500 ships, 800 ships... the titans just won. Hands down, no contest. No subcap fleet can stand on the field, and do the damage required to break reps, when they're losing a ship every single time the titans guns cycle. This is not the way eve is meant to be played, CCP has been nerfing titans since they came out, because they DO NOT FIT WITH EVE and never have. Every ship matters in eve, in every fleet, regardless of size. Until you bring titans in, and then the only ship that matters onfield is how many titans you have. That's not eve, and it's never going to be eve. So they're getting nerfed again, and will get nerfed more... get over it.
I bolded the parts where you are wrong. Also numbers are the biggest factor in almost every fight. Sure what ship they are in is important too, but by all means. Please come fight my fleet of 2000 Thorax's with your 3 Ravens.
I do like your heart as far as where you think the game is. Unfortunately, it is not where you think it is as far as numbers not mattering. It would be nice if it did not matter as much, but it is king of space right now. You also have to remember the game mechanics that amplify why numbers matter. The biggest offender is the super effort free and incredibly accurate intelligence gathering tool that has a minor role for communication. The local channel. Toss in a splash of alliance assets that have damage notifications and structure timers and presto, the blob... she be coming and she does not care if it is just you and your two friends in battlecruisers. She will bring everyone for many regions to curb stomp you so hard for disturbing them so you don't bother to set foot in their space ever again. Yet somehow the blob goes to the forums and complains about, "How come null space is so empty?"
The point of all of this is, the game needs a big change how intelligence is gathered, how entities claim territory and how it is fought. Even if it means changing how we play the game.
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BioZvin
The Ankou Raiden.
7
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:35:00 -
[1640] - Quote
Styrling wrote:Tippia wrote:Styrling wrote:No Logic this is an eve-o thread. That's ok, I got the divisor wrong at first anywayGǪ fixed now. NO worries bro, Here are some sick numbers 7x Cormack's Tracking Comps - Scripted 5x Tobias' Modified TE's Strong Drop Ogdin's Eye DC II Tank 0.01515 Tracking 75% tracking nerf or bust
Let theory craft all ships, you are up against what you saw on Hunted Lifeforms killmaill. Not Cormack's *7. Like saying all you maelstroms are really mach's. |
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Styrling
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:39:00 -
[1641] - Quote
BioZvin wrote:Styrling wrote:Tippia wrote:Styrling wrote:No Logic this is an eve-o thread. That's ok, I got the divisor wrong at first anywayGǪ fixed now. NO worries bro, Here are some sick numbers 7x Cormack's Tracking Comps - Scripted 5x Tobias' Modified TE's Strong Drop Ogdin's Eye DC II Tank 0.01515 Tracking 75% tracking nerf or bust Let theory craft all ships, you are up against what you saw on Hunted Lifeforms killmaill. Not Cormack's *7. Like saying all you maelstroms are really mach's.
Bro I don't care about your **** Raidendot fit I am saying what I fit on my titan that you dropped your dreads on a few weeks ago. |
Triskian
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
84
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:40:00 -
[1642] - Quote
Raiden., NC., and PL. We might not agree on the titan nerf, but I think I have found something we can all agree on and that is penguins are adorable. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
227
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:41:00 -
[1643] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Toss in a splash of alliance assets that have damage notifications and structure timers and presto, the blob... she be coming and she does not care if it is just you and your two friends in battlecruisers. She will bring everyone for many regions to curb stomp you so hard for disturbing them so you don't bother to set foot in their space ever again. Yet somehow the blob goes to the forums and complains about, "How come null space is so empty?" Do you really think shooting a few bullets at a POS elicits such a response? If you reinforce it, sure. If three people are reinforcing a POS they are pretty hardcore. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
EnderCapitalG
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
356
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:43:00 -
[1644] - Quote
Triskian wrote:Raiden., NC., and PL. We might not agree on the titan nerf, but I think I have found something we can all agree on and that is penguins are adorable.
Everyone in Theta Squad has been watching these guys for like.. a week
:3: |
GeneralDisturbed
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:44:00 -
[1645] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Toss in a splash of alliance assets that have damage notifications and structure timers and presto, the blob... she be coming and she does not care if it is just you and your two friends in battlecruisers. She will bring everyone for many regions to curb stomp you so hard for disturbing them so you don't bother to set foot in their space ever again. Yet somehow the blob goes to the forums and complains about, "How come null space is so empty?" Do you really think shooting a few bullets at a POS elicits such a response? If you reinforce it, sure. If three people are reinforcing a POS they are pretty hardcore.
Another NPC corp person discussing how numbers are the only thing that matters in combat. What a surprise let me tell you.
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BioZvin
The Ankou Raiden.
7
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:46:00 -
[1646] - Quote
Styrling wrote:Bro I don't care about your **** Raidendot fit I am saying what I fit on my titan that you dropped your dreads on a few weeks ago.
Ohh wait didn't you have titans and supers there, bring them with your 1500 man sub caps and you could win....
Please keep that fit on :P |
CynoNet Two
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
498
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:49:00 -
[1647] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:I bolded the parts where you are wrong. Also numbers are the biggest factor in almost every fight. Sure what ship they are in is important too, but by all means. Please come fight my fleet of 2000 Thorax's with your 3 Ravens.
I do like your heart as far as where you think the game is. Unfortunately, it is not where you think it is as far as numbers not mattering. It would be nice if it did not matter as much, but it is king of space right now. You also have to remember the game mechanics that amplify why numbers matter. The biggest offender is the super effort free and incredibly accurate intelligence gathering tool that has a minor role for communication. The local channel. Toss in a splash of alliance assets that have damage notifications and structure timers and presto, the blob... she be coming and she does not care if it is just you and your two friends in battlecruisers. She will bring everyone for many regions to curb stomp you so hard for disturbing them so you don't bother to set foot in their space ever again. Yet somehow the blob goes to the forums and complains about, "How come null space is so empty?"
The point of all of this is, the game needs a big change how intelligence is gathered, how entities claim territory and how it is fought. Even if it means changing how we play the game.
Two points to this: a) Numbers don't matter in the sense that a small fleet can beat a larger one with closer margins. 250 beating 400 with good skill, use of tactics and coordination is realistic (see: forces of Elite PVP versus old NC). However no one yet has come up with a good reason why absolutely crazy excessive numbers shouldn't win single fights. 1600 versus 200 absolutely should be winning - EVE doesn't cater to that degree of superior skill or resources. The counter that sort of force is not done via ships, but by politics, timezones and an eventual review of the underlying game mechanics that cause fights to happen.
b) As an addendum to the intelligence point - every major power knows where every others supercap forces (and to an extent, cap forces) are at all times. This severely limits the scope for real traps and ambushes. Thanks to a combination of spying, watchlists and locator agents it's virtually impossible to catch someone out with anything other than a minor gank. This is part of the reason for why titans are so survivable - they don't get caught out with their pants down all that often, most losses are from poor FC judgement rather than genuine surprise.
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Smiling Menace
Star Nebulae Holdings Inc.
179
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:50:00 -
[1648] - Quote
83 pages?
Raiden./PL and friends must be really butthurt over these changes. |
Wilson Yu
Masters of Ownage
0
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:53:00 -
[1649] - Quote
I am truly disappointed with how ccp is carrying out with the titan nerf. Now the only thing titans are useful for is super cap rights, structure grinding, and mobile stargate, all for a 70 billion isk ship. even than in super cap fights no one would use them cause it takes ******* long to lock on anything. so now what i am seeing is mins will drop in price ( yea cheap ships) and two titans will no longer be used at all other than cynoing in fleets of sub caps. who would ******* use a 70 billion ship to structure grind and risk it to sub caps who can easily scram it and wtfpwn it. lol good fight titans and super caps pilots you just got ****** in the ass by ccp. might as well just sell your titan or just self destruct. sell all your offcier mods and stuff. cause your titan will be worth the same level as a drake, quite literally. |
GeneralDisturbed
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.03.14 16:55:00 -
[1650] - Quote
CynoNet Two wrote:
Two points to this: a) Numbers don't matter in the sense that a small fleet can beat a larger one with closer margins. 250 beating 400 with good skill, use of tactics and coordination is realistic (see: forces of Elite PVP versus old NC). However no one yet has come up with a good reason why absolutely crazy excessive numbers shouldn't win single fights. 1600 versus 200 absolutely should be winning - EVE doesn't cater to that degree of superior skill or resources. The counter that sort of force is not done via ships, but by politics, timezones and an eventual review of the underlying game mechanics that cause fights to happen.
Keeping in mind that those 1600 don't exist, and have never existed. This is just some magical number these neutral alts keep throwing around like it's fact. A 'large' fight currently would be 500+ vs 500+. A major fight with everybody and their brother coming never breaks 1600... IN ALL. This idea that numbers win everything, and people are being dishonoureably blobbed out of their space is nothing more than a made up lie to try to distract from the fact that Titans are not some desperate last stand for honoureable people wanting to avoid losing their space to a blob. Titans are an i-win button for people who brought equal numbers and lost the real fight already. Or who don't want to bother forming up to defend their space, so they just drop 50 titans on a pos and laugh as nobody can attack it.
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