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Rpeg
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Posted - 2008.06.26 21:01:00 -
[1]
As I'm considering pursuing a more focused trading career in the game, I'm excited to see the potential even with the very little knowledge I have of economy and markets. None the less I'm going through these simple charts in the market view. I read over the graphs. It's great but I feel it could use more.
I'm under the belief that much of what there is to understand about market fluctuations is heavily dependent on interpretation. That interpretation is then heavily influenced on how you view the data? That's my current (slightly naive) impression. With that in mind I feel we need a continuous evolution in graphing the market data within the game.
Why not allow some method of scripting to change and alter how we graph the data? I suggest this as opposed to CCP implementing more graphs because I believe the EVE community will come up with inventive solutions on their own.
The Importance of Data Visualization
I don't know if I need to try too hard to convince anyone here. I think it's evident in the game when we view the world map and details it offers. For the market view: if we can't implement heavy customization, then at least same level of versatility should be offered for viewing market data.
Here's an interesting read on the subject of data visualization and good design: Edward Tufte NY Mag Article
And here's a examples:
Considering how EVE has one of the most advanced economics systems in an MMO let's take it further with how we deal, approach, and handle this complicated information.
Any thoughts?
-- autechre - ep7 - track 1: rpeg estevancarlos.com |
Rpeg
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.06.27 16:24:00 -
[2]
So, no response? Damn. -- autechre - ep7 - track 1: rpeg estevancarlos.com |
Exxon Longbow
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Posted - 2008.06.29 01:14:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Exxon Longbow on 29/06/2008 01:18:15 Edited by: Exxon Longbow on 29/06/2008 01:15:19
Originally by: Rpeg
[b]Considering how EVE has one of the most advanced economics systems in an MMO let's take it further with how we deal, approach, and handle this complicated information.
What do you mean customize charts? Changing data into graphs are quite easy, but they way you're asking seems a bit too ambiguous. I'm guessing what you want is to change the chart type for technical analysis. e.g. candle bar charts, bollinger bands? I don't use the charts that often simply because I don't find it all that useful.
I remember you can actually export that market data for a particular good/product at a particular time into a "csv" file, which means that with some macro-ing(not the macro-mining type), you can arrange them in an array/matrix for manipulation in a spreadsheet program.I'm sure there are people out there that are already doing this but as like most traders in EVE we keep our practices hush hush
There are user made programs that are quite helpful for traders/industrialists like EVE Meep and sites that contain prices listings for goods that are updated regularly.
I'd like to see EVE have a functionality that exports all that data into a nice spreadsheet file (xls xml ods) as well but I don't think thats gonna happen. Wouldn't you be curious what people could some up with? I'm sure Dr. EyjoG would be interested.
Remember EVE may have an advanced economic sim but most of the time the devs only focus on the combat side of things hence why I don't even give a damn about patches.
The last thing they updated on the market interface is the "filtering" functionality which should have been there a long long time ago which helps you eliminate some "outliers" market orders in game. EVE is are getting somewhere I guess, but we are nowhere close to letting the average player know the various elasticities of the good/product they are trading. |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.06.29 01:28:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 29/06/2008 01:29:30 Yeah, what he said.
I believe you'll find, at the bottom of the Market screen, an "Export to file" button. That generates a comma-delimited text file inside your My Documents. And I'm sure you could convince something to graph that data once imported into Excel and the likes.
Now that may or may not be useful, if you intend on studying the entire Market, but there's too much to keep track of anyways. |
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2008.06.29 01:57:00 -
[5]
Oddly enough was just discussing the market charts with Redundancy this week after we upgraded the chart software used in many things within eve. It is not that difficult to add new chart types and is more of a question of data and data interpretation of the current stats (moving averages, donchian bands etc).
Personally, if I were to make my own list it would be the ability to add in additional types to the graphs so I could compare all minerals at once for example, then perhaps index them and run an economical analysis or the same for the tier 1 battleships.
The second option would be the ability to export the historic type data in addition to the active orders you get now.
It would be good to get specific requests for what you want to see, different chart formats or additional stats wise. |
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Exxon Longbow
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Posted - 2008.06.29 01:58:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Exxon Longbow on 29/06/2008 02:02:19 Well personally I always end up with the question of, how much can I add to the price of my good X at Y station before pilots get fed up and buy it at another station? I have some spreadsheets can help me find these things out but its just too much effort sometimes and i just do them once in a while out of curiosity
Yeh, historical market data over a month would help - I want those numbers in a SS instead of a chart/graph, does EVE database keep them or do i have to start my own database? / any external sites? |
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.29 17:17:00 -
[7]
This is certainly the kind of thing I'm aiming to offer with EVE Metrics. I've recently just gotten back to work on it, so I'll see about some more advanced options for graphing. Certainly offering some kind of DSL for graphs could be really awesome, and I'll look into it. Comparative graphs and so on have been in the pipeline for some time, though. Edward Tufte's ideas are heavily built into some of the things in EVE Metrics, and more recent versions of my in-devel copy now have Sparkline graphs (small inline graphs) implemented in a few places.
Because EVE Metrics stores market info and price history, graphing this sort of thing should be rather simple, and the disconnected nature of the implementation (IE: Not something CCP has to worry about doing) means that getting things to be useful should be simpler. I'm all for suggestions- I'll keep an eye on this thread, but come to #eve-metrics on coldfront if you want to catch me for a realtime chat. |
Arthor Dark
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.07.01 22:30:00 -
[8]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis The second option would be the ability to export the historic type data in addition to the active orders you get now.
Being able to export the 'market table' information (from 'show table': order, volume, min, avg, max) would be a HUGE help. As such information could be used to determine the demand / throughput of particular items.
Also, is the sale information per station being saved? or is it only over the whole region? Since the market table combines the sales over the whole region, and there is no way to tell where the sales occured. Maybe a way to filter the market table information between (1)region (2)station and (3)system? so as to show only that subset.
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Rho'varo
Diversified Operational Services
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Posted - 2008.07.10 07:37:00 -
[9]
It would definitely be nice to add addition types to the chart, to compare minerals, as suggested. To do this effectively, I suggest an optional log scale on the y-axis would be required.
Being able to somehow toggle or set the treatment of outliers might be nice. (Or at least knowing the exact treatment of outliers would be good... I might have missed this information somewhere, but I don't currently know exactly how it is decided whether or not a particular transaction is an excluded outlier).
Making transaction patterns by station available would be too much information. Perfect information might increase economic efficiency, but it would also decrease the player engagement with the market, eliminating the need to "get to know" local supply and demand patterns.
Features & Ideas: Winding Up Learning Skills |
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