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I'm confused about this oil crisis

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Author	Topic
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:25:00 - [31] Originally by: Plumpy McPudding Edited by: Plumpy McPudding on 02/07/2008 19:24:24 Originally by: Amastat Originally by: Plumpy McPudding Originally by: Amastat Originally by: Shin Ra The actual reason is not that we are running out or anything, but that supply takes so long to react to demand. It takes years to get new drilling and production facilities on line. This in turn means there is a lag between demand and actual supply. So as more and more oil is produced, the supply ends up getting delivered la few years after it is needed. This has the short term result of there not being enough oil which causes the price to rise. Long term, the price will continue to rise until supply catches up then it will fall in spectacular fashion. The search for alternatives is a by-product of the increased price, not directly from the supply bottleneck. The problem is that alternatives take just as long to bring online, which is why it isn't as effective as one would image to start exploring alternative sources. ^^^ This and the fact that we are already drilling somewhere around 98% of the available oil in the ground, globally, and most of that remaining 2% is probably at deep sea. No matter what we do, we are going to be out of oil in about 20-30 years - there will be nothing more in the ground to drill for. I saw so many made up statistics my head explode.... I tried to look it up but google floods Firefox with Peak Oil ** and I can't find any statistics on how much is still in the ground - but I recall it being something like that. If you like, you can get off your ass and look it up yourself and post it. I'd rather not. I'll just continue to watch you make ** up. Right, sure - then get off your ass and find the real statistics and post it. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu
Bhaal Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:25:00 - [32] Edited by: Bhaal on 02/07/2008 19:25:48 I'm not convinced we know of all the sources of oil. There could be oil fields out there we know nothing about, fields that could double what we currently have, who knows. In any event, the recent crisis is one of many, but hopefully, this will be the last oil crisis. We have the technology to move past oil, it's about damn time we do so... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Plumpy McPudding	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:30:00 - [33] Edited by: Plumpy McPudding on 02/07/2008 19:30:36 Originally by: Amastat Right, sure - then get off your ass and find the real statistics and post it. What's the point? Any "supposed" facts I bring to the table will be emotionally refuted by you. __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
Zephyr Rengate ShockTroopers	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:35:00 - [34] What crisis? Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I will not liek human meat but the naerest I tried is human chesse. I don't want to tried again ...
Slanty McGarglefist University of Caille	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:36:00 - [35] Originally by: Zephyr Rengate What crisis? I DUNNO! __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Doh!
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:37:00 - [36] OK - finally found something - so I was off, but I had to look it up because some people suck at debating and don't even know how to back up their argument. It's an article - nothing from some offical source, but unfortunatly as badly flooded as google is with propaganda, it's really hard to find anything with promised accuracy - my apologizes for the world and the way it works. technologyreview.com: Even with record-high oil prices, about two-thirds of the oil in known oil fields is being left in the ground. That's because existing technologies that could extract far more oil--as much as about 75 percent of the oil in some oil fields--aren't being widely used, according to experts in the petroleum industry. So yea - there is still oil left, but it seems it cannot be acquired, but we can - but choose not to get it (wtf?). The estimates at the rate we are going remain almost unchanged - our reserves will be dried up, at current pace, in probably 20-40 years. The impact it is having on the economy is apparent though, and any economic impacts, or wars, would be happening now - because there's nothing to fight over if it's all gone. I would assume that the reason that oil company's will not drill for new oil is because they don't want to spend the money on it, and/or it's expensive and "not worth it, for its cost". ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu
Plumpy McPudding	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:41:00 - [37] Edited by: Plumpy McPudding on 02/07/2008 19:41:11 Originally by: Amastat Edited by: Amastat on 02/07/2008 19:39:40 OK - finally found something - so I was off, but I had to look it up because some people suck at debating and don't even know how to back up their argument - so I have to do it for him. Suck at debating? I called you out on faulty and unproven "facts" and guess what? They were wrong! And you weren't just off, you were WAY off. Even still as you said this source is UNOFFICIAL. sigh __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:44:00 - [38] Use the depleted uranium waste to make DU ammo for everything. Problem solved. Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2008.07.02 21:54:00 - [39] Edited by: Shin Ra on 02/07/2008 21:54:10 The US has not had allowed an audit of the gold in fort knox for 30 years. Saudi Arabia has now allowed an audit on its oil stocks for a long time too. And being the worlds most oil rich nation, any estimates of world supply could not possibly be realistic. Difficult oil, such as shale oil, is very abundant in some areas. This means that as the price of oil rises, it becomes economically viable to start exploiting these resources - again though with several years lag. This, in turn, means that supply of oil is almost unlimited. Any report you read about oil stocks is actually referring to the good stuff the Saudi's have, that is easy to get out. You can extract oil from an awful lot of sources in untraditional ways. It is just difficult and expensive. So in reality, the market for oil is no different to any other commodity. In fact, there is a much greater supply demand imbalance in other commodities such as copper. Yet, most of us don't worry about how the high price of copper affects us. Basically, its all media and CNBC hype so don't believe what everyone says. If anyone is especially interested in commodities, I suggest reading "Hot Commodities" by Jim Rogers - it will change your whole perception of globalisation.
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:10:00 - [40] Shhhhh Oil is going to run out. Keep saying that! Nope no oil at all left very soon... I've invested into some alt. energy companies... Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.

Thorliaron Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:28:00 - [41] you know somethings wrong when american's would prefer to pay $4 for a coffee from starbucks than $4 for a gallon of oil for the car
Bhaal Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:30:00 - [42] Originally by: Thorliaron you know somethings wrong when american's would prefer to pay $4 for a coffee from starbucks than $4 for a gallon of oil for the car StarBucks is going down the gutter too... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Zephyr Rengate ShockTroopers	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:34:00 - [43] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Thorliaron you know somethings wrong when american's would prefer to pay $4 for a coffee from starbucks than $4 for a gallon of oil for the car StarBucks is going down the gutter too... Starbucks is the gutter. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I will not liek human meat but the naerest I tried is human chesse. I don't want to tried again ...
MalVortex Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:43:00 - [44] Nuclear power != Oil Consumption TDP = infinite oil. /thread
Bhaal Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:44:00 - [45] Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Thorliaron you know somethings wrong when american's would prefer to pay $4 for a coffee from starbucks than $4 for a gallon of oil for the car StarBucks is going down the gutter too... Starbucks is the gutter. I wouldn't know, I don't drink coffee... I just see news stories of them closing billions of shops... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Siberys	Posted - 2008.07.03 00:14:00 - [46] There is no bloody oil crisis, it's just the arabs are too lazy to pump more out!
Ademaro Imre Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.03 00:23:00 - [47] Originally by: Mazzarins Demise Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 02/07/2008 15:53:44 Not confused about how it happened but deeply confused about our politician's ideas and the American people's ideas on how to fix the problem. You are confused because you are under the wrong impression that those that are pressuring only for non-oil energy sources have any reasonable expectation of replacing current energy use. The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it.
Captain Hudson Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.07.03 00:31:00 - [48] im sure if the american govenment gave other energy research a bit more cash than what the pentegon spends in 40hours they would be a bit closer to finding something suitable The Real Eve FanFest
Bhaal Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.03 00:59:00 - [49] Originally by: Captain Hudson im sure if the american govenment gave other energy research a bit more cash than what the pentegon spends in 40hours they would be a bit closer to finding something suitable Maybe some other government could do that for us then we'll just take their discovery? We need & love our weapons. ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Thorliaron Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.03 01:55:00 - [50] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Captain Hudson im sure if the american govenment gave other energy research a bit more cash than what the pentegon spends in 40hours they would be a bit closer to finding something suitable Maybe some other government could do that for us then we'll just take their discovery? We need & love our weapons. maybe you can do it ourselves being the only true democracy and leaders of the free world

Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.07.03 03:17:00 - [51] Anything that's not renewable in less than a lifetime sucks. And it's not even a matter of cost anymore, since, well, when you run out of coal, oil and uranium, what the hell do you do ? Sure, you can go bio-fuel, but that's still a bit "meh" - it requires constant care to grow the crops, and unless heavily subsidized, I doubt it's more profitable in the long term than other EXISTING alternatives. Also, farmland is not constantly farmable - farming degrades it slowly, so you have to keep rotating crops and spending time, energy and other materials to keep it working. Ok, it's ONE solution, but definetely not the only one. Hydro, Eolian, Solar power plants - all of these are more than adequate, and reasonably cost-effective when a long-term exploitation period is considered. The USA has basically HUGE open spaces where Wind turbines and Solar power plants could be built, and there's plenty of undammed rivers to build hydro plants on. Heck, even micro-hydroplants might work just fine for local needs, where a suitable river is found, with minimal eco-damage (or, quite the opposite, a small accumulation lake might do some good). Sure, solar plants are still a bit on the expensive side and might need a good deal of maintenance, but their advantage is that you can basically set up some ANYWHERE, even have one for every building, on the roof, which could provide a decent portion of the needed energy (and sharing that city-wide could probably fill most city-wide needs). Also, electric cars are getting better all the time, and might soon be more appreciated that regular combustion engine cars. So, as long as you have enough electricity, all's fine. Heck, build electrified train lines, build tramway lines all over the cities and suburbs - why the heck does public transportation have to be a bad thing. Look at most of Europe, look at Japan - public transportation (and a good deal of it electric-powered) works just fine for a lot of people. Electric airplanes however, well, there you do have a bit of a problem... and here you might be forced to stick with some form of combustion, at least for a while. So, oil/energy crisis? Nah. Generalized, chronic, brain-dead lazyness or downright incompetence on the government's part. Well, that or too much cash from lobbyists... like there's really any difference between that and incompetence. _ SUPPORT or CRITICIZE the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
Ava Santiago Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.03 03:36:00 - [52] Originally by: Akita T So, oil/energy crisis? Replace Oil/Energy with commodity crisis and then combine Ricardian theories of marginal utility with with Diamonds theories on the effects of margin breakdowns and a good sense of the related Malthusian effects and you have the reasoning behind the unwillingness of anyone to "solve" the current problem. The problem with changing the energy systems away from oil/coal is that we do not have any form of energy production that is as efficient(Oil is 1/8th Nuclear power's cost). The loss of efficiency results in a loss of productivity, and productivity is the driver of living standards. As no politician is interested in lowering his/her living standards... it will probably get really ugly. Concord doesn't provide consequences. Concord provides insurance payouts.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.07.03 04:05:00 - [53] Edited by: Akita T on 03/07/2008 04:13:47 One of the many nasty drawbacks of the popularity contest that's called "democracy"... It's just so freaking inefficient Give me a good "old fashioned" (heh) technocratic-oriented benevolent dictatorship or hereditary monarchy any day instead Or, well, basically anything where the "leaders" don't have anything to worry about losing their seat until the end of their lives unless they (lol) royally screw up - but are also forbidden (or somehow restricted/coerced) to hoard TOO much stuff for themselves with absolutely no regard for their "subjects". I know, I know... a meritocracy (based on IQ test, psychological profiling and whatnot), followed by serious mental conditioning to "TRY to do the best for the world" (or suffer severe pain constantly). Damn sci-fi imagination ! _ SUPPORT or CRITICIZE the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
pwnedgato	Posted - 2008.07.03 05:48:00 - [54] Originally by: Akita T t Give me a good "old fashioned" (heh) technocratic-oriented benevolent dictatorship or hereditary monarchy any day instead Or, well, basically anything where the "leaders" don't have anything to worry about losing their seat until the end of their lives unless they (lol) royally screw up - but are also forbidden (or somehow restricted/coerced) to hoard TOO much stuff for themselves with absolutely no regard for their "subjects". I know, I know... a meritocracy (based on IQ test, psychological profiling and whatnot), followed by serious mental conditioning to "TRY to do the best for the world" (or suffer severe pain constantly). Damn sci-fi imagination ! Maybe it is just me or the sci-fi that I prefer, but I've always preferred less than perfect, inefficient, things. When I look at Star Trek universe/tech/society I find it abhorrent. Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
Polonium 210	Posted - 2008.07.03 06:32:00 - [55] I hope oil will hit $200 a barrel at XMas, and $250 next year spring. Nuclear plants won't help while people prefer to drive alone in a car with 5 seats instead of developing and using public transportation systems. But switching to public transport will surely kill automobile industry and everything that that industry depend on. This is big money, nobody wants to lose such sums, and people who control it have enough means to keep the status quo. So boys and girls, I just hope you all are prepared for universal conscription.
Bom Bast	Posted - 2008.07.03 08:03:00 - [56] To the people who said any of the following: hydrogen power cells, ethonal. Do you know it takes MORE ENERGY to create these products then they put out? MORE. So, the end user has no green gases comng out of there car... but the power plant blanks out half the american sky with smog. Woops. TO the people who said any of the following: wind power, solar power. Wind power needs more then open space... it needs a specific minimum speed of wind and a constant wind. You cant plop them where ever you want. Solar power is notoriously week... and fragile. Huge solar arrays are required to power building, let alone towns, and they are expensive to maintain. A viable solution in some areas (cities where you could put them on top of tall building to protect them sound good). To the people who said any of the following: Nuclear Power. You got it. :D
Jastra Gallente Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.03 09:06:00 - [57] Originally by: Eternal Error As for combining all three, this is too intelligent. As for nuclear power, this would actually WORK and solve the problem somewhat. As the environmentalists HAVE to have something to whine about, this is unacceptable. Any other questions? Actually I'm an environmentalist and I'm all in favour of Nuclear if used as part of a broader approach that includes other renewables. Watch Silicon valley, someone there is gonna come up with a cheap panel we can all put on our roof and then we'll really have progress. Read a few reports about solar power, there are some awesome stats like a few hundred square kms of panels being enough to feed all US elec requirments, thats really not a lot
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2008.07.03 10:12:00 - [58] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 03/07/2008 04:13:47 One of the many nasty drawbacks of the popularity contest that's called "democracy"... It's just so freaking inefficient Give me a good "old fashioned" (heh) technocratic-oriented benevolent dictatorship or hereditary monarchy any day instead Or, well, basically anything where the "leaders" don't have anything to worry about losing their seat until the end of their lives unless they (lol) royally screw up - but are also forbidden (or somehow restricted/coerced) to hoard TOO much stuff for themselves with absolutely no regard for their "subjects". I know, I know... a meritocracy (based on IQ test, psychological profiling and whatnot), followed by serious mental conditioning to "TRY to do the best for the world" (or suffer severe pain constantly). Damn sci-fi imagination ! Heh, the notion that a benevolent meritocracy is better than a democracy is more than 2,000 years old; it's a central part of Plato's Republic. It's inspired quite a bit of classic sci-fi, including Brave New World. Also, there's a sigificant problem with biofuels that you didn't even touch on - there isn't enough arable land on the planet to feed the whole human race as well as meeting all our fuel demands. Even now, there are riots in several countries in protest against the increased prices of food that have resulted from the shift to biofuel production. Zzz research towers Direrie NEW: Liekuri 20:1 low-end compression
Ludi Tomina	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:40:00 - [59] Edited by: Ludi Tomina on 03/07/2008 12:18:27 I give up :(.
Ademaro Imre Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.03 13:55:00 - [60] The ultimate renewable energy: Vivoleum! Vivoleum news article Vivoleum video The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it.

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