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Lego Maniac
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.06 06:19:00 -
[1]
Well I've been at this for almost 10 months now and came to the embarrassing realization that I can't even use T2 weaponry yet... 
Given that I fly Matari ships exclusively, there are a few questions that I need cleared up before I iron out a plan in EVEMon.
First off, I'm leaning towards ignoring large projectile specialization entirely - is this a step in the right direction? There's a good amount of clamor over why Minmatar battleships suck, with the exception of the typhoon, which is loaded out with torpedoes in 90% of pvp setups found on ships 'n modules anyways, with the rest of the hi-slots fit with utility. I may get around back to training this if I reeeally feel like I need it, but for now is BS sized T2 projectile worth training for?
On that note, what size T2 missiles are worth training for? While T2 gunnery ammo is considered almost a must for pvp, T2 missile bonuses seem much more situational. Hardly anyone fits cruise missiles in pvp, so those are out of the question. None of the Minmatar ships are given missile range bonuses, so sniping with heavies is dubious. Javelin torps seem like an OK choice for the range buff. What about standards, rockets, and HAMs?
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Spiteful Soul
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.07.06 09:18:00 -
[2]
Large ACs are fine hmm?
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.06 16:46:00 -
[3]
umm, are you aware of the nano-ship plague that has 90% of the Eve Galaxy howling that nano-ships are "over powered"????.....
And guess which race nanos best?
while cross training is fine, be aware, if you are one of those people that gets upset when someone else has a ship that can something better than any ship you can fly, then you will HATE Eve. It does not matter what race you are, there will ALWAYS be something "important" that your race is not "best" at,
If thats important to you, I strongly suggest quiting.
However, if you are willing to work your strengths, and accept your weaknesses, and apply player brains, you can do fine with any race.
And ALL races spemd time in "worst" box. Ask Caldari about missiles in pvp.....
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.06 16:51:00 -
[4]
opps, forgot to add:
Vagabonds and Rapiers are all the rage these days, nanoed, of cource....
Typhoon is probably 2nd most versitile ship in game (after the Domi, although some might put it 1st).
But I'm not a Matar pilot (yet). Just started training them up last week.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.06 16:51:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 06/07/2008 16:51:58
Double post
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Lego Maniac
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.06 18:30:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Spiteful Soul
Large ACs are fine hmm?
maybe, but the ships that use them are not
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
umm, are you aware of the nano-ship plague that has 90% of the Eve Galaxy howling that nano-ships are "over powered"????.....
And guess which race nanos best?
while cross training is fine, be aware, if you are one of those people that gets upset when someone else has a ship that can something better than any ship you can fly, then you will HATE Eve. It does not matter what race you are, there will ALWAYS be something "important" that your race is not "best" at,
If thats important to you, I strongly suggest quiting.
However, if you are willing to work your strengths, and accept your weaknesses, and apply player brains, you can do fine with any race.
And ALL races spemd time in "worst" box. Ask Caldari about missiles in pvp.....
you, sir, are an idiot
why not read my post a bit thoroughly before opening your mouth
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Lego Maniac
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.06 18:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
opps, forgot to add:
Vagabonds and Rapiers are all the rage these days, nanoed, of cource....
Typhoon is probably 2nd most versitile ship in game (after the Domi, although some might put it 1st).
But I'm not a Matar pilot (yet). Just started training them up last week.
and on that note, I suggest you pay attention to this thread since those who actually answer my questions may save you some training time
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Sicks
Doom Generation
Doom Armada
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Posted - 2008.07.06 19:21:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Sicks on 06/07/2008 19:22:28
Train t2 projectiles. A maelstrom is currently one of the more OP ships in the game. With just a t2 fitting you can get it to tank over 1000dps while dishing out over 700 dps just with your turrets. T2 missiles are alright, but the minmatar's best ships seem to lie under the shield tanking turret boats rather than the 'i sorta do this, and sorta do that too' ships.
Its probably safe to not to worry about nanoing too much. When it all comes down to it, nano ships aren't good. They're just fast.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.07 08:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lego Maniac
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
opps, forgot to add:
Vagabonds and Rapiers are all the rage these days, nanoed, of cource....
Typhoon is probably 2nd most versitile ship in game (after the Domi, although some might put it 1st).
But I'm not a Matar pilot (yet). Just started training them up last week.
and on that note, I suggest you pay attention to this thread since those who actually answer my questions may save you some training time
Hmm, Yes, I did in fact mis read your original post.
Or did I?
Now you seem to be suggesting training Matar is a bad idea...
Which is it? Or do you only have more insults?
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2008.07.07 09:38:00 -
[10]
I dont see any logic in "10 month - no T2 weapons" thing. These 2 facts say nothing of your character at all. I spent more than 1 year with only T2 small guns, which I almost never used, and no T2 ships.
During that time I learned Matari cruisers and BSes to 4, learned all tanking fitting to T2, pumped up navigation, energy skills, all gunnery support skills, missiles to 4, T2 medium drones... Ok, I play a generalist, but still.
T2 weapons are not that long to reach if you go for them, but by themselves they dont mean much. Neither their availability says much of capabilities of your chartacter nor of the race in general.
Matari is a great race to learn. They have wonderful tacklers, fast cruisers for nano-action, best industrial ship that doesnt need training to lvl5, very good BC. Hell, turns out even Muninn is mighty fun actually.
Their BSes are subpar for a number of reasons, but it doesnt mean they are useless or not fun to fly! And please show me the weapon that has better sound than large ACs or 1200mm arties!
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Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
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Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2008.07.07 09:44:00 -
[11]
And, sorry, more to the point.
Just like you, I laid off the idea of T2 large projectiles for now, for exactly same reasons, thought I'd like to have Tremor L in my guns very much - its fun.
Its hard to say which missiles will be worth training to T2. I've used lights (assault launchers), heavies, HAMs, Torps and Cruise missiles on different Matari ships in PvP and PvE, but they're never a big part of DPS. Maybe torps for Typhoon?
I decided to stay on T1 launchers, I have skills to learn with much higher priorities really.
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Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
Lego Maniac
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.07 16:12:00 -
[12]
well one of my main concerns regarding T2 weaponry in addition to the benefits of T2 ammunition is the cost of replacements; in many cases it is much more cost effective to buy T2 guns than best named, and T1 mods, while the least expensive, I feel are not competitive enough - it's not a question of what I can do or accomplish, but rather how well and with what efficiency
best named launchers, on the other hand are strangely cheap
a bit of background: when I rolled this character I knew nothing at all about the game and thus ended up with perception being the lowest stat, right now my int is 29, mem is 23, and everything else is at a flat 20 - all advanced learning skills are at IV, except for the perception one which is at V
needless to say, I went about training those skills that would benefit me the fastest - drones, tank, fitting, nav, thermo, etc, ocassionally buffing up my gunnery and missile skills to use the right sized weapons as I moved onto bigger ships
however, I find that I cannot avoid training perception and willpower heavy skills any longer and wish to know which ones will be a waste of time
so, I will hold off on training T2 large projectiles, but does anyone know any clear benefits of training specific sized (and range) missiles?
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Lego Maniac
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.07 16:16:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
Originally by: Lego Maniac
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
opps, forgot to add:
Vagabonds and Rapiers are all the rage these days, nanoed, of cource....
Typhoon is probably 2nd most versitile ship in game (after the Domi, although some might put it 1st).
But I'm not a Matar pilot (yet). Just started training them up last week.
and on that note, I suggest you pay attention to this thread since those who actually answer my questions may save you some training time
Hmm, Yes, I did in fact mis read your original post.
Or did I?
Now you seem to be suggesting training Matar is a bad idea...
Which is it? Or do you only have more insults?
I apologize for my reaction, but your original post was reminiscent of lots of buff-this-no-don't-buff-that sh*t threads in ships 'n mods, which I don't want anything to do with
no, training matar is not a bad idea, but it is a good idea to know which things to avoid to optimize your training time and efficiency, hence the inquiries in this thread
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Lord Timelord
Artifex Dynamics
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Posted - 2008.07.08 04:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lego Maniac
...a bit of background: when I rolled this character I knew nothing at all about the game and thus ended up with perception being the lowest stat, right now my int is 29, mem is 23, and everything else is at a flat 20 - all advanced learning skills are at IV, except for the perception one which is at V
needless to say, I went about training those skills that would benefit me the fastest - drones, tank, fitting, nav, thermo, etc, occasionally buffing up my gunnery and missile skills to use the right sized weapons as I moved onto bigger ships
however, I find that I cannot avoid training perception and willpower heavy skills any longer and wish to know which ones will be a waste of time...
Although My character mainly fly's Gallente ships, I do have a suggestion for you. Since your attribute points are somewhat lopsided, I suggest that you train up Infomorph Psychology up a few levels, and contact someone with a Clone Vat Bay in a Rorqual or Mothership to get yourself a few Jump Clones.
If you already have run enough missions to get a Jump Clone from a npc corp, then by all means get them that way. The Clone Vat Bay solution is an excellent work around to doing the serious mission grinding to get the required npc standings for Jump Clone access.
After you get a couple of Jump Clones I would save a couple for pvp, with no implants. The others you can setup with either full sets of implants to boost all your attributes, or just the two attributes you need most. That way if you ever accidentally take that clone into combat and get pod killed, you only will loose two implants.
Using multiple Jump Clones with different sets of implants is a good way to minimize your losses. I suggest getting some +5 implants for your empire clone to help speed up the training that you have the lowest attributes in. If you can't afford +5's, I'd go for at least a set of +3's. Even +3's will save quite a bit of training time.
I hope this information is helpful to you. If you already know this, than you can disregard it of course. But it's here for everyone to read, just in case they don't know it.  |
Lego Maniac
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.08 08:18:00 -
[15]
done and done :)
although +5s are a bit too steep for me right now, even for empire (which may yet become unsafe should I join FW, which I am considering)
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.08 10:57:00 -
[16]
On the issue of Implants and Jump Clones
+1 and +2 implants are exceptionally cheap, especially if you only install 2 of them. So cheap in fact, that I install a pair of +2s in my "high risk" clones (I do, however, keep an implant free clone around for cases where I am pretty much certain I'll die....)
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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BlackMoon Thrawn
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.07.08 19:01:00 -
[17]
In my opinion, on a main character you need t2 large weapons of some sort. Large projectiles aren't as good as they once were due to the hit point boost, but are still adequate. If I had it to do over again I would skip minnie BS and large projectiles and train another race(I have since trained Amarr bs and t2 lasers).
Basically you need to be able to fly a few different ships well and everything else is kinda up to you. Intys, hacs and recons are the bread and butter of roaming gangs and t2 fit turret bs are the standard for fleet engagements. Minmatar have very good options for the first 3 and viable options for the last.
As far as utility highslots go I usually fit either missiles, neuts, remote reps or offline mods to act as heatsinks. Most of the ships that have the "utility" highslots have dual damage bonuses to turrets so don't feel bad about leaving them empty if it improves your overall fit.
I have 40 mill skillpoints and 200k in missiles so someone else can help there hopefully.
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