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Runewitch
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.07 04:04:00 -
[1]
Well, the short of it is, I've sold my main and have a tidy nest egg to sit on. I want to turn Rune here into a formidable PVP opponent in a few years time. What I need is a long-term skills roadmap that I can plug into Evemon and train as I go. My present planner is a completely screwed-up 6 year long train wreck(EveMon file).
The goods:
250 Mil ISK to be divided up between participants willing to pursue making a roadmap for me, within certain guidelines. This amount will be divided up and sent to all who participate in this thread by posting a skill map that is either in Evemon output format or in a spreadsheet format readable by open office (prefer both if possible).
250 Mil ISK to the person I select as having the best roadmap that I can follow from the aforementioned participants. The caveat to this is the provided roadmap must be better than the one I've come up with (which should be easily determined by participating posters and other responders).
Total payout, 500 mil ISK. The 250 mil winner will share in the dispersed money that goes to the other participants, therefore if only 2 people post their plans, the winner would receive 375 Mil ISK. It really is worth that much to me.
The Fine Print:
Participants have the following as guidelines:
 Runewitch will be a Gallante/Caldari hybrid PVP character specializing on small ships up through battleships. She will not mine, manufacture or sit docked trading for a single day in her existence. She may do some mission running, but this will not be her primary focus.
I need a skill plan that will make me as useful as possible in PVP encounters up through my training process. I want to PVP nearly every moment I play Rune and don't want to sit training Caldari and Gallente BS to V before learning the support skills necessary to make her effective in using such ships.
0 Interest in Cap ships or associated skills. Please do not include them. I want to fly up to Marauders and branch elsewhere from there. This will be some time off anyways. And please, no Industry other than enough to fly Transports somewhere down the line.
No, I will not reroll to make her attribute disposition better. and as I intend to use her as much as possible while still training her, I should note she will likely only ever have the +1 or max +2 learning implants available. (Cybernetics V should still be somewhere in the cue, however.)
Participants must host the file somewhere allowing for public download, review and critique. All submissions must include a minimum of 3 years worth of skills planned in the exact order they need to be queued for training.
All plans may become source material for future training and skill planning for newer players (your works will hopefully help to fuel a primer which newer players may follow to achieve better success in training for PVP.
"How can I be sure my hard work will result in actually getting paid?" I guess there are no guarantees as you do not have access to my wallet. If an agreeable 3rd party escrow agent could be agreed upon by the participants, I'd certainly agree to put the funds in at their earliest convenience.
A brief summary should accompany your official forum entry. By this I mean something like the following:
XXX's Skill plan
Highlights: Appx. 15 Mil Sp by X.
1. Will have 5/4 learnings done by x Months time.
2. Will fly fully T2 fitted cruisers in X months time.
3. Will have AWU and Medium Hybrids completed by X. Starting BC skills.
...and so on. This ofc will not need absolute numbers and figures, rather reasonable approximations.
End date for submissions: August 1, 2008 at 1800 server time.
Finally, my limited API to help make things a little easier:
User ID: 1551011
API Key: oAgja6wF3UWRecMySkoSBfyTmWQ0tfmEZNG1fm6HKmWS0xvaF6MOCRM5hTYRU0ZH
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Runewitch
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.07 05:55:00 -
[2]
Actually, in EveMon its easy :) assign a priority to the skill and your gold. It goes several layers deep, and although I said exact, skills are definately able to be grouped.
Anyways, its several downtime boredoms for some people with too much time on their hands and not enough ISK in their pockets :) That's my target demographic :))
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Runewitch
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.07 07:56:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Runewitch on 07/07/2008 07:58:28
Quote: End date for submissions: August 1, 2008 at 1800 server time. I guess the payout will commence after a healthy period of debate here on the forum, say 48 hrs?
The money can enter any reputable third party that is decided by the participants, not me. That way there can be no chance of impropriety as the community decides where to trust the money.
Learning skills are fine at the start. As I've already accidentally posted a follow up on my interim missioner/combat pilot, I'm in no hurry to rush Rune into combat. I'd just rather not wait 3-4 years to do it.
 Originally by: Estel Arador
Edited by: Estel Arador on 07/07/2008 07:42:04
Lemme know when the money is in the hands of a third party, I'm not gonna spend too much time on it till then 
And when's the deadline exactly?
Should the character include learning skills right at the start or does it have to be 'playable' from the start? (I played while doing the learning skills right at the start, but I'm nuts..)
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Runewitch
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.07 14:53:00 -
[4]
PVP will be in small, roaming gangs. I'll likely be bait, will start out as most - tackling early on. Maybe some gatecamps, but not expecting much in the way of fleet ops until I am able to fully participate in a meaningful way. Solo PVP, well yeah, I like a suicide run every now and then but tbh not expecting to be effective here for some time.
Caldari is fine to begin training first. I picked Gallente/Caldari for a few reasons. First, I love drones. I like hybrids and well, training for one gun type while cross training is very appealing. I really like EWAR, and this ofc is where Caldari shine.
The negatives are obvious, and I accept them. Cross training means longer training times with two different tanks,, numerous weapon platforms to learn, Gal/Cal Cruiser, BS V training times, etc. But I know its quite possible to do, and I've flown characters cross trained in the past that have been very well developed with under 30 mil SP (see this Evemon example).
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Runewitch
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.08 23:55:00 -
[5]
I've just messaged Chribba in order to secure 3rd party escrow and distribution of funds as no-one else has put forth a service they prefer. Would this be agreeable to everyone? I'll let you know as soon as I hear back from Chribba if he is interested in providing the service if there are no objections.
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Runewitch
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.09 17:44:00 -
[6]
Correct. I could have easily purchased a decent main with my most recent sale. I was at a balance of 14 bil, decided to purchase a nice mission runner with some proceeds to fuel my GTC purchasing instead.
Originally when I set out buying and selling characters, I did so as I had 4 mil SP on my main and was flat broke. My training progress stalled as I was unable to afford expensive skill books for continued development. I was floored when I sold my first character. The amount of money you could receive was incomprehensible for selling even a low SP pilot. I thought that the sale went well and therefore I could just trade my way up to a 60-70 mil character well within a year. 4 months later, I had my first 50 mil SP character, Cheeva, whom I just sold.
I never felt connected to any of the characters I bought or traded for. I felt more of a connection with the characters I've created than the others. I really like Runewitch here; I found a character with a name and portrait I like. She is relatively the same SP as my wife and we both find its more enjoyable to play together with the same ability level rather than me BBQ'ing anything she finds threatening.
Now for the reason I'm paying for help. I do very well in finding and bettering established characters. It's the reason I usually sell for twice what I purchase characters for (well, and the ability to spot a bargain). I use these funds to acquire characters with excellent, specialized abilities. I've played well-trained crosstrained characters who are exceedingly effective and fun to play due to their ability to change ships and combat styles on the fly as situations demand. Trouble is, I am completely lost when it comes to creating new characters and developing them into well-trained, specialized pilots. I diverge into strange paths and ideas. I miss vital skills, I cross train too early. Kind of like most people between 3-10 mil SP.
In short, I cannot create this kind of character. I've tried three times, and end up making them rather underwhelming. I'm a patient man. I can wait for my character to develop. I just need the roadmap to get there.
Originally by: Solariian Lytebringer
Just out of curiosty, but is ther eany reason why you haven't looked into just acquiring the kind of character you are looking for out of the marketplace forum?
>snip<
Anyway, just my .02 isk. I'll probably still play around with Evemon for you. I need moar money.
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Runewitch
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.09 18:06:00 -
[7]
To everyone that expressed even lukewarm interest in possibly pursuing this task, a small, no-frills gratuity should be blinking in your wallet. Just to show my seriousness in this endeavor.
No word yet from Chribba, will advise if anything develops unless anyone has a better suggestion?
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Runewitch
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.09 20:06:00 -
[8]
Hmm, looks nice, the only problem is EveMon shows as skills defaulted with a Priority of 3. Maybe it doesn't come through properly with the XML file? The skills themselves aren't too difficult to load in, unfortunately its the order to train them where I tend to fall short...
Originally by: Lance Fighter
Is this good enough?
You dont know how hard it is to waste 3 years away on evemon...
The learning skills I have in that plan are only the ones needed to do the current skills faster, none other are added. Some of the support skills I dont have exactly perfect in order and such as I myself would have trained them, but I feel that overall it is an excellent compilation of skills queued up.
(if there are no other submissions, can I just have the 500m? You have 7 billion in your wallet... )
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.07.09 20:54:00 -
[9]
Got it. Ty Lance, I'll send you a gratuity for getting the first entry in as well. We'll see in a few weeks if you win, neh?
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.07.11 03:57:00 -
[10]
I'm flattered by the work you have all put in. Thank you so much, we have a bona-fide competition here. I'm simply staggered at how long this must have taken; I hope the process is enjoyable and not too taxing or frustrating.
Fantastic summary Herschel. Beyond what was expected by any length. Very helpful if this is a path others wish to develop their characters. Thanks :)
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.07.12 04:59:00 -
[11]
Thanks VariableK for the post and the summary. I'll get a chance to do a more in-depth analysis within a few days (I'm back at work in the middle of my schedule atm). Will take some serious getting to know you time (well, your plan and everyone else's) on my days off.
To clarify the implant situation. As expected, yup, I got podded and will repeatedly so. My implants will be variable, between no implants if I expect heavy confrontation or war decs, to +2 implants when things are light, mission running for standings gain, etc. Although I could easily afford them , this char will likely never see a +5 learning implant. I don't want to dock Rune while she trains, only to bring her out after training completion to be podded repeatedly because of rookie mistakes. Better to screw up early, which will help me learn my full capabilities as I grow.
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.07.12 22:58:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Runewitch on 12/07/2008 22:58:09
If everyone have no objections, then yes, a three year plan with no implants is fine. It will be difficult to calculate in as there will be variable implants at variable times.
I will look at getting a clone in the next few months. Right now, I'm not really up for a mission-grind fest to gain standings to do so. When I am able to do Level 3's with some success, and I get my mission running desire back, I'll probably set up a clone with +4's for extended downtimes, but that will be a ways off. I don't see much in the way of downtime over the foreseeable future.
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Runewitch
Thanks VariableK for the post and the summary. I'll get a chance to do a more in-depth analysis within a few days (I'm back at work in the middle of my schedule atm). Will take some serious getting to know you time (well, your plan and everyone else's) on my days off.
To clarify the implant situation. As expected, yup, I got podded and will repeatedly so. My implants will be variable, between no implants if I expect heavy confrontation or war decs, to +2 implants when things are light, mission running for standings gain, etc. Although I could easily afford them , this char will likely never see a +5 learning implant. I don't want to dock Rune while she trains, only to bring her out after training completion to be podded repeatedly because of rookie mistakes. Better to screw up early, which will help me learn my full capabilities as I grow.
So just to get it on the record, is a 3-year plan with no implants sufficient to meet your requirements? I assume that it's okay, because somebody getting disqualified for that would be lame, but it's your money.
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.07.14 21:51:00 -
[13]
Not at all Lance, you got it completely right. I want to be able to utilize both Caldari/Gallente ships and associated weapon types. that's Rails/Blasters/Missiles/Torps/Drones/Bricks/Empty beer bottles. If I can fly it, I should be able to shoot it :) Lets keep you from working too hard, neh?
Originally by: Lance Fighter
I took hybrid to mean a blend between caldari and gallente skills... thus being both rails/blasters and missiles.
Not in the sense that hybrid meant the weapontype... if so, then I have a lot of totally unwanted ships and skills on my plan.
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.07.14 22:04:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Solariian Lytebringer
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
And while I'm critiquing, Solariian's plan is pretty good, though the lack of missile skills makes it wholly different from the other three posted
...
Just doin what the lady asked for....
Originally by: Runewitch
Runewitch will be a Gallante/Caldari hybrid PVP character specializing on small ships up through battleships. She will not mine, manufacture or sit docked trading for a single day in her existence. She may do some mission running, but this will not be her primary focus.
Figured since she wanted to use hybrids why bother with missiles.... they certainly have their use in pvp and I would have included them if she hadn't specified.
Although, now that I read that again, I guess she meant a hybrid of Gallente/Caldari.... hmm, no matter. It's a relatively quick fix. Add a few weeks to train up torps, cruise, maybe T2 standards and rockets and she can field some pretty effective missile-based ships without any other alterations to the plan.
Although I would like all racial weapon systems trained, if there are valid arguments and plans to the contrary in order to further your plans, I can completely understand. There's always an opportunity to train them when needed. It all depends on what you have in store.
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.07.15 21:15:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Runewitch on 15/07/2008 21:17:41
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 15/07/2008 16:44:05
Originally by: Pteranodon
Edited by: Pteranodon on 15/07/2008 12:11:15
Why don't you just keep the 500 million & do the plan yourself. Nobody knows you better than you.
u play a game that demands imagination & you see to have little but good luck to you.
>Snip<
If you read above, he said that he's tried that and it never seems to work out very well. Given that he seemingly has no trouble making billions of isk on the character market, spending some money for a clear vision of what to do going forward is hardly the worst plan in the world.
>Snip<
Thanks, that actually sums up perfectly why I'm doing this. Its strange, but worth it in the end. What would be 'unimaginative' would be if I had just picked a character with around 40-50 mil (which I had the funds for at the time) and just played him or her until I was finished with playing Eve. With no real growth or development as a player rather than as a character.
Also, Runewitch, you've got 6.6 billion isk. Surely you can afford to spend a few hundred thousand on a clone. 
You saw my little faux pas? I went to set up a new ship after I got podded while afk at my safespot (See? I'm learning :p ). Hadn't dawned on me that I had not updated my clone, merely moved it to my present location. I go to the market, buy some Hammer II's and I see I'm not able to use them. That's when  Clue happened...
also, thanks Demon for your foray into this as well. I have yet to look at your plan, but following my little bit of mission running on Akira and some pvp time with rune, I'll dive in for a bit to look over some plans and figure out just where everyone has me headed.
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.07.17 23:14:00 -
[16]
I picked up a trading/hauling alt so ifit makes things easier, you can cut those skills from my plan. Thanks guys:)
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.07.22 13:14:00 -
[17]
You people sure know your stuff. The good reviews are coming in and I feel by the views the lurkers may be learning something as well  Excellent plan and writeup Toharan. Thanks, we're gonna have quite the showdown on the 1st :))
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.07.29 07:30:00 -
[18]
Zounds! Thanks Chickai and Eina for the detailed skills you've provided. Tbh, I'm surprised by how many positive (and exhaustive) results thus far. It will be a challenge to work through all the plans; I really expected at most to receive a handful at best. This will be a difficult decision, I really wish I could find a better, more learned adjudicator to decide the most suitable plan. It'll feel as though I'm not qualified to give an opinion never mind determine the winner.
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.07.31 16:08:00 -
[19]
Good idea Trev, but much as Herschel stated, I do love me some Sniper Rokh
 Get 'em in!
End date for submissions: August 1, 2008 at 1800 server time. Payment to commence 48 hrs. following a period of debate here on the forums.
I'm gonna have a busy few days :) Going to spend a goodly amount of time checking and rechecking submissions. Tonight, I'll post a list of everyone who made appropriate submissions. Hopefully I'll be able to divvy up the initial 250 mil ISK and distribute following the deadline. Then, knives out everyone (j/k) for the 250 mil ISK prize. Good luck, and thanks to everyone once again for making this a successful (and hopefully entertaining) exercise.
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.08.01 18:33:00 -
[20]
Ok, I think time's up. The participants thus far (please tell me if I've missed anyone):
Receiving 32 Mil ISK: (I count eight entries)
Lance Fighter
Herschel Yamamoto
Solariian Lytebringer
VariableK
Demon Azrakel
Toharan
Chickai Hawk
Eina Shadowlancer
=======================
I'm going to log in now to send out the initial payment. Please let me know if you haven't received your share or if I've missed anyone. Otherwise, good luck to you all and hope you receive an even larger chunk of my wallet
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.08.03 10:41:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Runewitch on 03/08/2008 10:42:11
Still choosing indeed :) At work atm, so I'm not able to do too much in terms of careful evaluation.
If no one debates the merits of their propsal, I might change the terms of the 250 mil ISK payout only slightly. I propose sticking everyone's names in a hat and drawing the winner. Does this sound fair, or is it too far askew from the original intent? There are plans I certainly prefer to use (and will use over others), but tbh, I'll probably use something of a hybrid working of 2-4 of your plans to suit my tastes.
If anyone opposes, I will rescind this propsal and just stck to the original plan; give the proceeds to the plan I deem most suitable to my needs. If possible, I'd like to payout within the next 12 hrs, so let me know asap. I'll try to do a comprehensive wrapup at that time. Thanks everyone for all your hard work; I hope there's been some measure of reward in the process and be assured a lot of new players have (and hopefully continue to) benefit from your work 
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.08.03 12:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
Originally by: Runewitch
Edited by: Runewitch on 03/08/2008 10:42:11
Still choosing indeed :) At work atm, so I'm not able to do too much in terms of careful evaluation.
If no one debates the merits of their propsal, I might change the terms of the 250 mil ISK payout only slightly. I propose sticking everyone's names in a hat and drawing the winner. Does this sound fair, or is it too far askew from the original intent? There are plans I certainly prefer to use (and will use over others), but tbh, I'll probably use something of a hybrid working of 2-4 of your plans to suit my tastes.
If anyone opposes, I will rescind this propsal and just stck to the original plan; give the proceeds to the plan I deem most suitable to my needs. If possible, I'd like to payout within the next 12 hrs, so let me know asap. I'll try to do a comprehensive wrapup at that time. Thanks everyone for all your hard work; I hope there's been some measure of reward in the process and be assured a lot of new players have (and hopefully continue to) benefit from your work
so, those pages of explanations accompanying links in this thread, do not count as someone speaking on behalf of their proposal? 
Not at all. But should you care to re-read the discussion which unfolded following the initial post, 48 hrs would be alllotted for debate on which proposal had the strongest merits against the other proposals. As there has been no debate post deadline, other options may present in which participants in the contest may feel better ( or more equitably) serves their chances for winning.
As you have not posted an entry, why such concern? I'm presenting this to the participants to guage their interest in how best to pay for their efforts.
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.08.04 03:09:00 -
[23]
Ty for your patience, I'm back from work and have had a good look at everyone's plans. Basically, the way it breaks down as I see it (correct me if I'm wrong):
Lance: Deimos in no time flat with T2 Blasters. A fun plan that gets me into many ships very quickly. Despite my statement, Quote:
0 Interest in Cap ships or associated skills
, my alliance certainly does and your plan does give a good launchboard to caps should I change my views.
Solariian Nice focus on support skill training right from the start. Will be quite a boost for T1 ships prior to development for their T2 variants.
Herschel A strong plan that goes for the gusto with strong fitting and engineering skills. This is so important to new pilots; I just lost 50 mil worth of Brutix to a Neut Domi while omw to a pvp OP. This, despite carrying 800 charges in a cap booster. Had I better skills in this dept, perhaps I could have made it back to the gate and survived long enough for the jump. Rambling aside, a well thought out plan and a solid contender for the prize. Nothing is rushed, everything is in its due time.
VariableK Early focus on navigation and gunnery skills. Will definitely get into (and out of) trouble early on. Gets me into a Nighthawk before a Raven (I've had great success with Nighthawks in the past). A fun plan that differs from the others.
Demon Gets climbing up the Caldari tree early on. Provides mission-running options should I go into receivership without much cost. T2 weapons across 3 platforms (Heavy Assault Missiles/Hybrids/Drones) well within the first year.
Toharan Another brilliant plan with many T2 modules trained up very quickly. T2 tank, capacitor and focus on drones (my strong suit) off the hop. Delays gratification for getting into T2 ships until skills needed to fly them properly are trained. This is not a negative by any means as many newbs, (as myself when I have money to burn - see my dead Brutix), rush into ships they cannot properly fly.
Chickai Hawk Multifaceted, getting support and fitting skills out of the way. Provides mission (COSMOS) running options later on if pvp becomes draining (esp financially :) ).
Eina I love this plan. Modular, allows for options to deal with changing circumstances and playstyles. Well thought and reasoned. HAC's and Recons with T2 Heavy and Sentry drones well within a year. A solid contender for the money as well.
=======================================================================================================
Now comes the difficult choice. As the majority of your ( I think pretty much all of you, anyhow) have stated that the final prize is not as important as the process, here is what I'm going to do. I've decided on using three plans provided by Herschel, Toharan and Eina. As I will use a combination of all three, all three of you will receive a share of the payout. As none of you have objected to sharing the sum, I will up the payout to 150 mil ISK each (for a total of 450 mil ISK). I hope this is equitable, and I apologize to every else who put the effort in.
Your plans all had strengths; the winning plans will suit my needs best as I can forsee at this time. I really thank everyone for making this project a success; many new players have viewed this post and hopefully our efforts will go to creating stronger, more focused players to fill the ranks of your corps and alliances. In time, I hope to compile your work into a tutorial primer directed towards younger players; and although the plans are Caldari and Gallente focused; there are principles and requirements which span across all racial ships.
Fly safe, my thanks and congratulations to all the participants
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Runewitch
Gallente
Legion Federation
The Black Isle
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Posted - 2008.08.04 19:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Chickai Hawk
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Chickai Hawk: The plan you linked doesn't even come close to matching the plan you described. I assume a link got corrupted somewhere along the way, but without a real copy I can't judge what you did. That said, if the file you linked is actually your plan, you should refund your initial payment out of embarrassment - it's truly awful.
Ouch, I appreciate that my plan wouldn't be to everybody's liking but I think thats a little harsh.
The only link I could find on this thread was in post #72, to http://www.mediafire.com/?gtyzxejtz0b which is about six years long and awful. The plan you described is three years long and reasonable. Like I said, I'm pretty sure it's a problem with a link, or perhaps with me being blind.
Lol! I think you linked to mine (it was six years long and hosted on Mediafire).
See? I really did need the help :) Thanks again everyone
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