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Paying well for a PVP skill roadmap - new character.

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Author	Topic
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:09:00 - [61] My humble opinion. Planning is good but a 3 year plan? Something will happen in 3 years of playing Eve & you will need to adapt so I would take the exact order as a pinch of salt-any other expectation is unrealistic. Often the fun in Eve is establishing a new direction quickly & on the fly as situations change & sticking rigid to this plan may not be practicable. good to have goals though. wish you luck.
Salinity Now	Posted - 2008.07.23 16:15:00 - [62] Great post with a lot of info for we noobs. I am in my first week on EVE but I have fond memories of Trade Wars back before Al Gore invented the internet with pictures. All of the info given for the intial training helps a lot. All of the training options are a little overwhelming when first starting the game. I appreciate all the work you guys have put into this. Further analysis of each of the plans will be time well spent. Thanks.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.23 19:38:00 - [63] damn the first is a bad day for me to forum debate on... oh well :( I need a good advocate for me, any takers?
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.23 21:07:00 - [64] Originally by: Lance Fighter damn the first is a bad day for me to forum debate on... oh well :( I need a good advocate for me, any takers? The voting will take place over a few days, I believe. Alternately, just send your desired post to a corpmate or something, and have them post it here. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Kuzya Morozov Gallente L8L8L8	Posted - 2008.07.23 21:16:00 - [65] Wondering why you want Cybernetics V if you will never use +5s.
Beltantis Torrence	Posted - 2008.07.23 21:28:00 - [66] Originally by: Pteranodon My humble opinion. Planning is good but a 3 year plan? Something will happen in 3 years of playing Eve & you will need to adapt so I would take the exact order as a pinch of salt-any other expectation is unrealistic. Often the fun in Eve is establishing a new direction quickly & on the fly as situations change & sticking rigid to this plan may not be practicable. good to have goals though. wish you luck. Yeah but sometimes knowing the logic behind why a plan is setup as it is has more value than the specifics of the plan itself. If something gets nerfed maybe the exact skills would change but the reasoning for those skills at that stage of character development should still hold value.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.27 04:44:00 - [67] Poke, because i want this thread to be noticed
Chickai Hawk	Posted - 2008.07.28 05:00:00 - [68] My skill plan is done but I have to dash off to uni. When I get back tonight I'll upload it and provide a full wrie-up. It comes in at 1088 days, or 2 days shy of 3 years. You can fly everything BS class and below with the exceptiong of industry-based ships (barges, industrials, etc). By the end of it every ship should be a killing machine. Anyway, watch this space as I have to go Cheers Chickai
Mordred Shadow Battle Logistics and Mining Inc Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:07:00 - [69] I'm not sure the OP needs to do this contest, or is REALLY doing it to get a great plan. I think a lot of people on the Eve forums like to create something. An event, a competition, something they can read that they had a part in or created themselves. I can feel how exciting it must be for Runewitch that all these people are helping out and aiming for the money (and again I don't think the contestants are even trying for the money, they merely like being a part of something too). The result is a great plan for Runewitch and some satisfied customers with more isk in their wallets. But the pleasure is in the process. Welcome to the internet.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:30:00 - [70] Originally by: Mordred Shadow The result is a great plan for Runewitch and some satisfied customers with more isk in their wallets. But the pleasure is in the process. Welcome to the internet. This :D

Chickai Hawk	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:02:00 - [71] Edited by: Chickai Hawk on 28/07/2008 16:06:28 Edited by: Chickai Hawk on 28/07/2008 16:03:50 Ok, So I finally finished the plan, working on it in my spare time after I came back from overseas. The plan is broken into 12 (really 10) parts. The intention is to create a PvP Character from day one and as such I've spent as little time as possible on training learning skills. So without further procrastination, here's the breakdown 1) This is the number one priority group,it is mainly learnig skills but also a couple of skills which are really useful in the coming stages 2) Group 2 is all about frigates and getting your feet wet in assault ships. Why assault ships I here you ask? Well, quite frankly, they are pretty cool despite current draw-backs (weight etc). The really cool bit is that to fly assault ships well, you have to have support skills and these skills carry over into all other classes. As such it was the first skill set I have set for training 3) Group 3 is specialising in inteceptors and ewar as gallante has some pretty nice Ewar 'ceptors. This is a further development of support skills as you are now starting to branch out into ewar as well as DPS so you have a little variety in the kind of ship you fly. 4) Next up are cruisers. There's a few skills in here that start to build up your tank (the compensation skills) since before then you should be speed-tanking anyway. Once you have cruisers trained, you can have a great time in a small gang as DPS, Ewar and tackle if you follow the plan 5) While this may seem a backwards step, the next skill group is leaning on recons and electronic attack ships. This puts you into fleet combat as well with the ability to fly force recon and drop Cyno fields. While I personally dont fly recon, I imagine that the skills learnt here would be invaluable to a scout for a fleet 6) Now you start moving up into the big ships, after group 5 you can fly everything cruiser size and below. Group 6 is polishing off minor skills while focussing on battlecruisers and their associated weaponry 7) Pretty much the same as group 6 but with battleships 8) You specified that logistics should be part of your plan and I figured that they would probably be best suited after the battleships because DPS is usually considered more useful in a fleet-fight than spidertanking (as the primary usually dies pretty quick) As such all the logistic related skills are in this group 9) Another step forwards and time to be a pain in the arse. Black ops and interdictors are the name of the game. With all the other skills behind you, by this stage you should be able to uncloak and say "Mwahahaha, f*** off and die puny untanked foes!" or "None shall escape my web of destruction!". Ok, so its late at night, cut me some slack with the frivolities =P Point is, these are funky ships and really excel in fleet and small-gang combat 10) By now you're in the final stages of the plan and its time to get down and dirty with one of the requirements; Marauders. Again, with all the preceeding skills, you should be a nasty mofo of a pilot when you get into them as they are right at the end though, its a long time before you'll be able to fly them 11) Finally, for 2 years you've been a combat pilot to be feared in the pack, and now, you're taking the helm yourself. The final true training group is for command ships. By this stage of the game, there's no support skills other than the pre-requisates as you've trained them all! Yay! 12) Added astronomy for shitzen-giggles when you want to use probes =D And there we have it, 3 years worth of training. I assumed +2 implants across the board, taking it to 1104 days, or 3 year + 2 weeks. If you want to shave the extra 16 days off, bring the Lvl 5 learning skills in priority 4 to the front, will drop it down to 1088 days (3 year - 2 days) but I thought the extra 16 days would be worth it rather than spending an extra month waiting for learnign skills before you can learn other skills. Remeber that you can PvP right
Chickai Hawk	Posted - 2008.07.28 16:03:00 - [72] Edited by: Chickai Hawk on 28/07/2008 16:04:09 *just not as effectivly as after the plan, hence why I moved the lvl5 skills back to Pri 4 Hope this helps for anybody who wants a Gal/Cal hybrid :D Runewitch 3 year plan =D
Eina Shadowlancer Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:55:00 - [73] Edited by: Eina Shadowlancer on 28/07/2008 19:03:14 I have a start, but I don't have access to EveMon from this computer, so the fu might not be so strong. And remember that this is just a start, not the finished product. But it got a tad long possibly, and I might have duplicate skills somewhere or missed some pre-req somewhere (Another thing caused by lack of EveMon). I don't think it really is three years either, I made some quick calculations and got it to a bit less. But here goes! (Link to a properly formated version: http://aeris.is.dreaming.org/Runewitch.nfo open in a text editor with a fixed width font and it should look lovely) But my thought was that everyone was initially focusing on getting T2 ships up as soon as possible, and I would be a bit different by focusing on the humble cruiser/battlecruiser and add a lot of different skills like Logistics, Recons and other fun stuff. Sorry for the gigantic post of doom, I'll put up an EveMon plan soon. Or more likely a couple of them. After that I'll see if I need to add or remove skills from it! = Eina Shadowlancers fabulous skill plan for Runewitch = == Introduction == This is a plan that will stay down with the cruisers for a good long while. The cruiser sized ships are currently very viable in PvP and a HAC can easily bring down a battleship. No need to go up and max out the battleship skills early if you just want to do PvP and the HAC does it as good or better. The Caldari side is a bit behind, but I think you can fit every T2 ship on that side perfectly reasonable, even the Marauder. And if you want to it should be quite quick to bring up to full awesomeness (Just max out the missile skills) The Gallente side is a lot more developed with almost maxed gunnery and drone skills if you pick a Gallente Marauder in the end and train the "Specialization: Drones"-block, I guess you will have a setup that might just BBQ everything on the receiving end before they can make a cup of hot tea. At a point in time you might want to add the "Ship: Transport"-block to move some stuff, or simply help a friend haul or something. There are a few more blocks under the "Can wait" header that you might want to look at, some are quick, some take more time. But they all add something to your character. Just pick them up when you need them, or train a bit in advance. == Start of the guide == 1. Support: Learning skills Boring, but still essential. It will take a couple of weeks, but you'll probably be able to have lots of fun with your current skills. It has enough to do some basic PvP or FW if you feel like you need to get the real skills ready. They cut your training time by a couple of weeks, so don't skip the basic ones to V. I skipped bringing the Charisma one to V though, only leadership needs that and I don't think it removes any time. Training: Spatial Awareness V Iron Will V Instant Recall V Clarity V Focus IV Empathy IV Presence IV Gives: Shorter training time Takes: Time, but you have enough skills to fly around a frigate reasonably, so just play it out, or chat it out. 2. Support: Basic tackling equipment You'll need some tackling equipment, they are stuck on most PvP fits somewhere. And an MWD is almost on every fit, so you need to train that one ASAP. Frigate sized T2 is good enough for now, beware of the nano-nerf though. Training: Propulsion Jamming II Navigation IV Afterburner IV High Speed Maneuvering III Gives: Webifiers, Scramblers (T2) and MicroWarpdrives (T2, 1MN), about what is required for a good tackler 3. Support: Basic gunnery Brings your gunnery skills up to what is necessary to fly around and shoot in combat. Training: Gunnery IV Weapon Upgrades IV Medium Hybrid Turret IV Rapid Firing III Sharpshooter III Controlled Bursts III Surgical Strike III Gives: Adds quite a nice amount of dps
Eina Shadowlancer Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:56:00 - [74] 4. Ship: Gallente Cruiser The Thorax is awesome, you can use it as bait, dps or even as a tackler if you really need to. But the Vexor shouldn't be underestimated either. Training: Gallente Cruiser IV Mechanic IV Repair Systems IV Hull Upgrades IV Engineering IV Electronics IV High Speed Manouvering IV Acceleration Control III Evasive Maneuvering III Drone Interfacing III Gives: A reasonable ability to fly the Thorax, possibly one of the best T1 ships out there Prepares for the armor compensation skill tree, which boosts your resistances with Adaptive Nano Membranes Better ability to tank T2 MicroWarpdrives (10/100 MN) At this point should you be able to fly a thorax with confidence, you'll need a gang to do it. But you still have a good way to go before you are able to fit a fully T2 cruiser, and even longer until you can fly HACs and other T2 ships. Your support skills are acceptable at this point but we need to bring them up more. The Vexor requires a little less skills possibly, and would be a good option since you already have many drone skills. The Caldari has not got much love until this point, but they will come after the support skills are a bit better, you need them support skills in a T2 ship. 5. Support: Fitting and capacitor Maxes out basic fitting skills, and boosts the capacitor skills Training: Electronics V Engineering V Energy Grid Upgrades IV Energy Management IV Energy Systems Operation IV Gives: T2 Cap Rechargers and a lot more capacitor and capacitor recharge More power grid and CPU 6. Support: Advanced gunnery and drones Training: Gunnery V Combat Drone Operations IV Propulsion Jamming IV Signature Analysis IV Motion Prediction IV Rapid Firing IV Surgical Strike IV Long Range Targeting III Gives: Easier targeting More dps with guns T2 Webifiers A bit more drone dps 7. Ship: Battlecruiser Since I happen to be in love the Myrmidon, it will get some love here and it allows you to seriously move into a battlecruiser for both PvP and PvE. If you prefer the brutix, it requires exactly the same skills, so they are a must have anyhow. And some additional tank and dps has never hurt anyone, except your opponents that is... Training: Battlecruisers IV Drone Interfacing IV Drone Durability III EM Armor Compensation III Explosive Armor Compensation III Kinetic Armor Compensation III Thermic Armor Compensation III Gives: Gallente Battlecruisers, both of which I consider excellent Better resistances for passive armor mods If you want to do missions, move quickly down to the "Missions: Gallente" and "Support: Drones" blocks, it allows you to be passable with a Dominix class battleship for missions quite quickly. If you don't want to do missions, skip that block for now and bring up the hybrids to T2. They are useful for PvP and that is what you need, right? Priorotize one type, possibly blasters to make your Brutix deliver a lot more dps right into the belly of your opponent. A Myrmidon is better served by rails in my oppinion.
Eina Shadowlancer Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:57:00 - [75] 8. Training for T2 medium hybrid blasters Training: Small Hybrid Turret V Medium Hybrid Turret V Small Blaster Specialization IV Small Railgun Specialization IV Medium Blaster Specialization III Medium Railgun Specialization III Gives: The T2 guns make all the difference in the world, they are simply awesome. With them your Brutix can out-dps anything T1 in the class. 9. Ship: Heavy Assault Cruiser They need even more support skills just to train the skill, and here they come, with a few useful mix ins and it will be an awesome ship. It doesn't really matter if you choose a Deimos or Ishtar, but read my comment below if you choose the Ishtar. Training: Mechanic V Weapon Upgrades V Spaceship Command V Gallente Cruiser V Hull Upgrades V Assault Ships IV Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV EM Armor Compensation IV Explosive Armor Compensation IV Kinetic Armor Compensation IV Thermic Armor Compensation IV Controlled Bursts IV Sharpshooter IV Heavy Assault Ships IV Gives: Access to the Heavy Assault Cruisers, a nifty class of ships that are considered quite awesome currently Weapons use less CPU/Power grid, not only useful but necissary for most of the good fits Assault frigates, they might not be considered very good at the moment but if that changes they are soon unlocked A bit more tank, and access to T2 hardeners and Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes, useful for PvP and PvE alike Less capacitor usage with guns and they shoot farther If you want to fly an Ishtar, jump down to the "Support: Drones" and "Support: Heavy drones (T2)" and/or "Support: Sentry Drones (T2)" blocks. They are pretty much required to fly one, unless you want to look pathetic on the kill mail (And you don't want to look like you have a lol-fit on a kill mail now do you?). The Deimos flies perfectly well with only medium drones, but look at the "Support: Electronic Warfare Drones" and "Support: Repair Drones" blocks, they might well be just what your gang needs. Now you have a very reasonable level of skills to do PvP in mostly T2 equipment (You seem to have the isk to do it) and we are going to bring some Caldari love into the mix, and that requires some shield tanking skills, some missiles and a bit of space ship command. I can't honestly say I know much about what is required here, so I am mostly an EveMon warrior in the Caldari part. 10. Support: Caldari Training: Missile Launcher Operation V Shield Management V Shield Operation V Shield Upgrades V Navigation V Tactical Shield Manipulation IV Standard Missiles IV Guided Missile Precision IV Heavy Missiles IV Missile Bombardment IV Missile Projection IV Rapid Launch IV Target Navigation Prediction IV Warhead Upgrades IV Cruise Missiles IV Acceleration Control IV Gives: Currently nothing, but wait my child, wait and the treat will come Missile DPS if you happen to find something to fit a launcher on, I think the Tristan has one A good shield tank if you happen to need it sometime Adds a bit of speed 11. Ship: Covert ops/Stealth bomber Since that last part was boring, we're doing something fun to make up for it. Just make sure you're not hit, a covert ops is made of paper even with reasonable skills. Make sure also that you have fun pwn:ing people that can't even see you, waiting isn't awesome, but when you get them. Muhaha! Training: Electronics Upgrades V Caldari Frigate V Covert Ops IV Cloaking IV Gives: Covert ops ships and T2 cloaks Stealth bomber
Eina Shadowlancer Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:58:00 - [76] 12. Ship: Caldari Recons To make the Caldari recons shine, you really need some good ECM, and that is what we're bringing in here. At least in theory. It adds the Caldari HAC:s too, and that is a nice addition, a sniping Cerberus is useful sometimes. My EFT-fu is too low to reccomend setups for it though, so a sniper one might not be as good as I think it might be. Training: Signature Analysis V Caldari Cruiser V Recon Ships IV Electronic Warfare IV Frequency Modulation IV Long Distance Jamming IV Signal Dispersion IV Gives: Awesome ECM capabilities Ability to utilize the recon ships bonuses to good effect Caldari Recons and heavy assault cruisers We have added a good amount of base skills. But now we're taking the skills to the max, a first will be to enter the wonderful world of less theory and more leadership skills. To reach the current goal of command ships. But before we get there, we will take the armor tanking skills to the edge, except the compensation skills which we keep at IV, they simply are not useful enough IMHO when you are using a armor/shield-hybrid. But the new skills will be needed in a ship that is built for tanking and miss Runewitch's gunnery skills is going to need some good chocolate chip cookies too, which I will be happy to supply next. 13. Support: Tanking and ganking Training: Motion Prediction V Rapid Firing V Sharpshooter V Advanced Weapon Upgrades V Repair Systems V Energy Grid Upgrades V Energy Management V Energy Systems Operation V Medium Railgun Specialization IV Medium Blaster Specialization IV Armor Rigging IV Jury Rigging III Gives: More dps Better tank Access to tanking rigs. And a bit less CPU usage for some modules (And a pre-requisite to the Marauders) A bit more capacitor and capacitor recharge 14. Support: Leadership Now you should have the experience to lead a gang, if not you're starting to become a gang booster at least. Training: Leadership V Warfare Link Specialist IV Wing Commander III Gives: Additional Armor HP, very nice in gangs Additional Shield HP, nice in gangs Warfare links, nice for the command ship Preparation in skills for future fleet command 15. Ship: Commandships Training: Battlecruisers V Long Range Targeting V Logistics IV Command Ships IV Gives: Both fleet and field command ships, and the logistics ships Jump down to the "Support: Logistics"-block if you want to use a logistics cruiser in addition to what you have now.
Eina Shadowlancer Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.28 18:59:00 - [77] 16. Support: Warfare links And now the warfare links, for added awesomeness. With a fleet command ship, you can't simply fly around without them, at least not in a large gang. They are simply too good. Training: Armored Warfare IV Armored Warfare Specialist IV Siege Warfare IV Siege Warfare Specialist IV Skirmish Warfare IV Skirmish Warfare Specialist IV 17. Support: Advanced Caldari Time to give the Caldari some love and be able to field the Caldari Command Ships with a better tank and with serious (T2) launchers. Training: Heavy Assault Missiles V Heavy Missiles V Heavy Assault Missile Specialization IV Heavy Missile Specialization IV EM Shield Compensation IV Explosive Shield Compensation IV Kinetic Shield Compensation IV Thermic Shield Compensation IV Gives: Quite a bit more Caldari DPS A better passive resistance Now you should possibly train some of the optionals down below before you train for the Marauders, but you can just lock, load and run straight into one if you want it. 18 (Gallente). Kronos If you have not trained the "Support: Drones" and "Support: Heavy Drones (T2)" it is a good time to do so now Training: Gallente Battleship V Large Hybrid V Large Blaster Specialization IV Large Railgun Specialization IV Marauders IV 18 (Caldari). Golem Training: Caldari Battleship V Cruise Missiles V Torpedoes V Cruise Missile Specialization IV Torpedo Specialization IV Marauders IV == Blocks that can wait == Support: Drones When: At the moment you want to fly a ship with a large drone bay (125 Mbit/s bandwidth) Training: Heavy Drone Operations IV Sentry Drone Interfacing IV Drone Durability IV Gallente Drone Specialization IV Support: Heavy Drones (T2) When: After "Support: Drones" Training: Heavy Drone Operation V Support: Sentries (T2) When: After "Support: Drones" Training: Sentry Drone Interfacing V Specialization: Drones When: At any point after the "Support: Drones" block Training: Amarr Drone Specialization IV Caldari Drone Specialization IV Minmatar Drone Specialization IV Drone Sharpshooting V Drone Interfacing V Gives: Additional varieties of T2 drones More drone dps == Optional blocks == Support: Logistics When: At the moment you want to fly a logistics cruiser Training: Energy Emission Systems IV Shield Emission Systems IV Remote Armor Repair Systems IV Support: Repair Drones (T2) When: At the moment you need them, they are useful in PvP from day one and awesome together with a logistics cruiser Training: Repair Drone Operation V Support: Electronic Warfare Drones (T2) When: At the moment you need them, they are useful in PvP from day one Training: Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing IV Support: Cynosural Field Generator When: At any point you need a cyno Training: Cynosural Field Theory I (Might want to pull it up to IV) Optional: Speed When: CCP has changed it's mind and not nerfed nano-ships, then this might be valuable. Otherwise it will probably be a waste of time. Training: Acceleration Control V High Speed Maneuvering V Optional: Cybernetics When: When you want to use good implants Training: Cybernetics IV (V if you need it) Gives: The ability to use some awesome implants Optional: Jump clones When: You can get jump clones, they are simply awesome Training: Infomorph Psychology I (Maybe all the way up to V if you really like them) Gives: Jump Clones, need I say more?
Eina Shadowlancer Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.28 19:00:00 - [78] Edited by: Eina Shadowlancer on 28/07/2008 19:06:22 == Shortcuts == Missions: Gallente When: When you want to do level 4 missions before you have trained up your missile skills Training: Gallente Battleship III Large Hybrid Turret III Jury Rigging I Missions: Caldari When: When you want to do level 4 missions after you have good shield tanking and missile skills Training: Caldari Battleship III Jury Rigging I == Additional ship types that might be useful == Ship: Gallente Transport When: At any point Training: Gallente Industrial V Industry V Transport Ships IV Gives: Gallente Transport ships, a simple way to transport all your stuff. Or somebody elses, yarr! Ship: Interceptor When: Wiiiieeeeeeee, speeeeed! Training: Evasive Maneuvering V Interceptors IV The end, as of right now. But I realize now that spell checkers might not be only for whimps, sorry. But there are quite a few of them evil typoes in there, but they shall be purged soon. But with this plan you should be able to bring in lots of fun, you can ride any kind of Gallente or Caldari T1 ship, and in addition to that you can ride Assault Frigates, Heavy Assault Cruisers, Recon Ships, Covert Ops, Command Ships, Logistics and Marauders which should give you an all round role which will benefit every fleet you are in. From a small gang to a large 0.0 fleet. If someone manages to read this, any kind of comments would be appreciated, just more if they are positive.
Runewitch Gallente Legion Federation The Black Isle	Posted - 2008.07.29 07:30:00 - [79] Zounds! Thanks Chickai and Eina for the detailed skills you've provided. Tbh, I'm surprised by how many positive (and exhaustive) results thus far. It will be a challenge to work through all the plans; I really expected at most to receive a handful at best. This will be a difficult decision, I really wish I could find a better, more learned adjudicator to decide the most suitable plan. It'll feel as though I'm not qualified to give an opinion never mind determine the winner.
Solariian Lytebringer State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:35:00 - [80] Originally by: Runewitch I really wish I could find a better, more learned adjudicator to decide the most suitable plan. It'll feel as though I'm not qualified to give an opinion never mind determine the winner. Considering you are the ones the plans are designed for, it makes you uniquely qualified to determine the "winner". I'm sure everyone will agree that these are just rough guidelines anyway. You should expect your training to be a dynamic process. It's good to have fixed short- and long-term goals, but those should change with your knowledge, experience, and environment. Patches like the impending nano-nerf might have dramatic game-play changes that impact your training schedule, and as such you should adjust accordingly. You may find that while E-war and logistics are fun, viable segments of PvP, they just aren't for you - which eliminates a whole segment of skills and ships from some plans. Anyway... the point I was trying to make is that you should judge them on the merits of what you think best suits YOUR needs - it's all subjective. As for the "winner" I htink everyone that participated did it for their own reasons and the monetary reward was tertiary at best. As for me - I was bored at work and I fget paid by the hour. Originally by: Jenna Shame I think it takes 12 minutes to send a command to the mars rovers, so basically EvE might as well have their servers on Mars when it comes to fleet combat.

Vex Cachet Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.30 15:27:00 - [81] I've downloaded some of the plans, unzipped them into .emp files but don't know how to read them. When I double click them, it loads EVEMon but brings up my character and his plans. I don't see a way to import anything other than XML plans and these aren't xml's. How do you view someone's proposed .emp plan file? Thanks,
Spectre3353 Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.07.30 15:37:00 - [82] Originally by: Salinity Now Great post with a lot of info for we noobs. I am in my first week on EVE but I have fond memories of Trade Wars back before Al Gore invented the internet with pictures. All of the info given for the intial training helps a lot. All of the training options are a little overwhelming when first starting the game. I appreciate all the work you guys have put into this. Further analysis of each of the plans will be time well spent. Thanks. TW2002 = ****ing awesomest game ever. I have been waiting for a modern day equivalent for so long and so far Eve is as close as it comes. ----- http://evenewb.blogspot.com/
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.30 17:57:00 - [83] Originally by: Vex Cachet I've downloaded some of the plans, unzipped them into .emp files but don't know how to read them. When I double click them, it loads EVEMon but brings up my character and his plans. I don't see a way to import anything other than XML plans and these aren't xml's. How do you view someone's proposed .emp plan file? Thanks, Use Runewitch's API data in the OP to add the character to EveMon, then import the plans. For a more detailed explanation, see my post #53. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.30 18:45:00 - [84] I know that if I leave this much longer, I'll forget and miss the deadline, so I'll upload my new version now. So, here it is. Note that all dates in this plan assume no implants, making the plan almost 4 years long. +2s across the board shave off 145 days, if you're so interested. Right now, you can fly any Gallente frigate as a tackler with some effectiveness, as well as a Vexor or even a Myrmidon when a larger ship is warranted. Since you are currently capable of flying some number of reasonable ships, I see no great need to delay learning skills. Thus, the plan is to finish all useful(non-Charisma) learnings by August 24. There are a couple Charisma skills in there too, but they serve to make the useful parts of the plan shorter. Following that, increase proficiency with the ships you currently have, focusing on the Vexor and the Incursus. This section of the plan is heavy on skills applicable to all ships - HP and capacitor boosts, Drone Interfacing, Navigation, MicroWarpdrives, jump clones, and so on. This phase of the plan finishes on October 18. With most of the baseline supports out of the way, you can start expanding your ships flown aggressively. The first stop on the plan is T2 frigates, since they're the easiest direction to expand in as well as being one of the more valuable ones. Assault ships are now much more valuable if the proposed speed changes go through, and you have all the requisites already, so they come first. After that are Interceptors, of course. Next up come the Myrmidon, a few Iterons(I know you picked up an alt for that, but being able to fly a cheap hauler without swapping characters is worth 18 hours), the Thorax and Brutix, followed by the Ishtar and Deimos, and then the first move to Caldari for the Blackbird, Moa, and Ferox. This phase of the plan, including the EWar skills to use the Blackbird properly, takes you through until March 18, 2009. Another round of support skills gives you perfect HP, perfect capacitor, good shield-tanking skills, full use of all relevant rigs, sensor disruptors, overheating, and most implants. It also greatly improves your skills with drones and turrets. This round ends on July 2, 2009. At this point, almost a year in, you've got over 15 million SP, and very good skills with Gallente frigate-class and cruiser-class ships, topping out with HACs and BCs. You've also gotten to the verge of several new ships - Drakes and all the Gallente battleships, most notably. It's time for another expansion of the ships you can fly, so I'm going to grab battleships, then the Drake(backfilling basic missile skills), then the Crow, then head up the CovOps/EAS/Recon tree. Once you have Caldari Cruiser 5, for their HACs and recons, you can also skill into the Basilisk, which is a quality logistics ship(unlike the Oneiros, which is mediocre). Caldari battleships are freebies, since you've already got almost all the weapons, so we'll grab those too, and torpedoes, for Raven-based PvP. You finish that batch on November 24, 2009. You have decent missile skills, but not great, and your drone and turret skills are starting to look a bit shabby. Thus, a whole pile of weapon support skills are in order. At the end of this phase, all the good support skills for drones, turrets, and missiles will be at 5, and all the bad ones will be at 4, you get T2 versions of all non-mining drones, and your EWar skills are in good shape too. This is a long batch, lasting until September 24, 2010, but it means you'll never again have to touch weapon support skills for any weapon in the game. (to be continued) ------------------ Fix the forums!
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.30 18:46:00 - [85] (continued from above) Again, back to ships. You've got everything but heavy interdictors, command ships, and marauders(I exclude interdictors, since it sounds like you're not planning to head to 0.0, and black ops, because they're difficult to get into and unlikely to be useful to you even if they do get buffed), and good skills in everything you do have. Some of the weapon skills could use work too. Thus you'll get, in order, HICs, T2 large hybrids, T2 missiles of all classes, command ships, and marauders. Due to the sudden appearance of Charisma-based skills in the form of Leadership, we'll also finally finish the learning tree at this point, bringing in the Charisma skills. Again, we're getting into large batches here, and this one will finish on October 4, 2011, giving you access to every ship you want to be able to fly. The last batch of skills is focused on leadership skills, to supplement your newfound command ship skills - specifically for the Vulture, but you'll be able to use all of them, as well as give perfect gang-boost bonuses. You get all Warfare Specialist skills to 4, as well as Wing Command 4, just in case your gang gets big. After that, you get a Siege Warfare Mindlink, to make your Vulture crazy-good(ignoring stacking penalties it'll nearly double the size of an active shield tank in gang). After that, a final cleanup of support skills - you gain the ability to use combat boosters, T2 rigs, and perfect EANMs. Thus finishes the plan in its entirety on May 29, 2012, or almost four years from now, with 58,658,923 SP, some 148 unique skills, and the ability to fly every subcapital Gallente or Caldari ship you'd fine useful with near-perfect skills. Some of these last skills are probably unnecessary, but they're just about all you can do with a subcapital Gallente/Caldari PvPer without investing in really useless skills, so I included them. If you want to be less of a purist you should probably skip some of these skills(Armour Compensations to 5 and T2 rig skills, mostly), to pick up things like Amarr and Minmatar, or new ship classes that are released between now and then. Since I can't see the future, however, I'll leave that up to your future judgment, and include the skills I have in case you're bored come four springs from now. ------------------ Fix the forums!
TrevHead M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.07.30 22:23:00 - [86] I thought i might make a suggestion though i have not read all the posts so some1 might of mentioned it 1st You said u want to fly both caldari and gallente ships, If u could fly the gallente ships for dps/gank and just fly ecm ships for the caldari to begin with, If u do this u wont need to train for any shield skills as most ppl fill their mids with just jammers and just fit a large amour plate for a tank and/or remote armour rep. Hope this is of some use to u
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.30 22:41:00 - [87] Originally by: TrevHead I thought i might make a suggestion though i have not read all the posts so some1 might of mentioned it 1st You said u want to fly both caldari and gallente ships, If u could fly the gallente ships for dps/gank and just fly ecm ships for the caldari to begin with, If u do this u wont need to train for any shield skills as most ppl fill their mids with just jammers and just fit a large amour plate for a tank and/or remote armour rep. Hope this is of some use to u Problem is, you're making it so you've got nice pretty railgun skills for the Rokh, but no ability to tank it. Your method works fine for the Scorpion, but the Caldari rail platforms need shield tanks. ------------------ Fix the forums!
TrevHead M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.07.30 23:11:00 - [88] Thats why i said to only fly the EW ships for the caldari, gallente should be ok to start off with. This should free up alot of training time which can be alocated to other skills which he needs to get him on a level playing field with most other players.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.31 05:39:00 - [89] Originally by: TrevHead Thats why i said to only fly the EW ships for the caldari, gallente should be ok to start off with. This should free up alot of training time which can be alocated to other skills which he needs to get him on a level playing field with most other players. Oh, sure, if you want to prioritize like that, go for it. My plan did that to a fairly large extent. But you ahve to train it up eventually, is my point. ------------------ Fix the forums!
Runewitch Gallente Legion Federation The Black Isle	Posted - 2008.07.31 16:08:00 - [90] Good idea Trev, but much as Herschel stated, I do love me some Sniper Rokh Get 'em in! End date for submissions: August 1, 2008 at 1800 server time. Payment to commence 48 hrs. following a period of debate here on the forums. I'm gonna have a busy few days :) Going to spend a goodly amount of time checking and rechecking submissions. Tonight, I'll post a list of everyone who made appropriate submissions. Hopefully I'll be able to divvy up the initial 250 mil ISK and distribute following the deadline. Then, knives out everyone (j/k) for the 250 mil ISK prize. Good luck, and thanks to everyone once again for making this a successful (and hopefully entertaining) exercise.

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