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Caelum Dominus
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.07.08 14:36:00 -
[31]
Originally by: goodby4u Then the crusader can outrun the ranis... As even with a speedfit the ranis is slower then the crusader.
And my facts are straight, ive killed many ranis pilots with my crusader and im sure they all had that"my interceptor is overpowered"thought going through their head before they died.
You are wrong. As I've stated before, a Taranis does nearly twice the damage of a Crusader and has a far superior tank. Anyone with a clue and/or access to EFT can verify this.
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.08 14:39:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Caelum Dominus
Originally by: goodby4u Then the crusader can outrun the ranis... As even with a speedfit the ranis is slower then the crusader.
And my facts are straight, ive killed many ranis pilots with my crusader and im sure they all had that"my interceptor is overpowered"thought going through their head before they died.
You are wrong. As I've stated before, a Taranis does nearly twice the damage of a Crusader and has a far superior tank. Anyone with a clue and/or access to EFT can verify this.
Tank means nothing when your guns cant hit... And there is a point where dps means little and range means more, my crusader is smack dab in there.
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Caelum Dominus
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.07.08 14:42:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 08/07/2008 14:44:15
Originally by: goodby4u Tank means nothing when your guns cant hit... And there is a point where dps means little and range means more, my crusader is smack dab in there.
You're not making any sense at all.
I'm correcting you for stating that the Crusader has a superior tank compared to the Taranis, which is false. I'm also correcting you for claiming that the Crusader has "nearly the same damage" as a Taranis, which is also false.
I'm not sure if even a top-skilled Crusader pilot with a heat sink or even two would be able to kill a Taranis before it webs you and gets in range to unleash hell, but with overheating I think it might be possible.
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.08 14:46:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Caelum Dominus Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 08/07/2008 14:42:44
Originally by: goodby4u Tank means nothing when your guns cant hit... And there is a point where dps means little and range means more, my crusader is smack dab in there.
You're not making any sense at all. I'm only correcting you for stating that the Crusader has a superior tank compared to the Taranis, which is false. I'm not really sure if even a top-skilled Crusader pilot with a heat sink or even two would be able to kill a Taranis before it webs you and gets in range to unleash hell, but with overheating I think it might be possible.
This is the problem, either the taranis can get within range for its blasters... But in this situation it doesnt have a damage control and thus the tank isnt as good.
Or it cant get within range for its blasters and well... Why fight a battle where you cant hit the enemy?
Lastly, the only chance a taranis has is overheating its web, and hoping that the crusader didnt pack a web himself(most dont only 2 meds).
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Caelum Dominus
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.07.08 14:50:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 08/07/2008 14:51:26
Originally by: goodby4u This is the problem, either the taranis can get within range for its blasters... But in this situation it doesnt have a damage control and thus the tank isnt as good.
I'm assuming that you are using pulse lasers, since you are claiming that the Crusader does a lot of damage. This means that your optimal range is going to be 10km unless you're using rigs or tracking enhancers (in which case you will be nearly as slow as the Taranis, which is obviously not a good idea if you plan to stay out of web range). You can be webbed from 13km. You do the maths.
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.08 14:58:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Caelum Dominus Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 08/07/2008 14:51:26
Originally by: goodby4u This is the problem, either the taranis can get within range for its blasters... But in this situation it doesnt have a damage control and thus the tank isnt as good.
I'm assuming that you are using pulse lasers, since you are claiming that the Crusader does a lot of damage. This means that your optimal range is going to be 10km unless you're using rigs or tracking enhancers (in which case you will be nearly as slow as the Taranis, which is obviously not a good idea if you plan to stay out of web range). You can be webbed from 13km. You do the maths.
Distance with normal falloff+ no enhancers is 11km, double falloff(max limit before just hitting nothing)13.somethingkm.
Yes its a pain the micromanage at these tolerances but remember by the time the ranis pilot gets lucky his drones would probably be dead and he would be nearing hull.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:00:00 -
[37]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 08/07/2008 15:02:14 My crusader (TE, 2x Optimal rigs, Scorch) has an optimal of 15. Some use two TEs, which brings it to 17. That's with 2 (or 3) lowslots left for speed and or CPR/HS. With 2 ODs, it hits 6131m/s. Plus a nano, 6893.
Now the taranis.. with 2x OD and a DC, goes 5582. 2x ODs and a nano 6273. One OD (+ MFS + DC) is 4755.
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Caelum Dominus
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:00:00 -
[38]
Originally by: goodby4u Distance with normal falloff+ no enhancers is 11km, double falloff(max limit before just hitting nothing)13.somethingkm.
Yes its a pain the micromanage at these tolerances but remember by the time the ranis pilot gets lucky his drones would probably be dead and he would be nearing hull.
Right. Let me get this straight - when you fight a Taranis, you pilot manually so that you remain between 13km and 13.5km?
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:00:00 -
[39]
Edited by: goodby4u on 08/07/2008 15:01:47
Originally by: AstroPhobic My crusader (TE, 2x Optimal rigs, Scorch) has an optimal of 15. Some use two TEs, which brings it to 17. That's with 2 (or 3) lowslots left for speed and or CPR/HS. With 2 ODs, it hits 6131m/s. Plus a nano, 6893.
Now the taranis.. with 2x OD and a DC, goes 5582. 2x ODs and a nano 6273.
Damnit dont give the lackies good crusader setups!
Originally by: Caelum Dominus
Originally by: goodby4u Distance with normal falloff+ no enhancers is 11km, double falloff(max limit before just hitting nothing)13.somethingkm.
Yes its a pain the micromanage at these tolerances but remember by the time the ranis pilot gets lucky his drones would probably be dead and he would be nearing hull.
Right. Let me get this straight - when you fight a Taranis, you pilot manually so that you remain between 13km and 13.5km?
No I dont, im just saying its possible.
I dont like giving away my crusader setup.
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Caelum Dominus
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:04:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 08/07/2008 15:07:01
Quote: No I dont, im just saying its possible.
No, it's not possible to stay between 13km and 13.5km when both ships are going faster than 5km/s. You're making yourself look like a fool, and the same goes for the chap above with the massive wall of theorycrafting.
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Spectre3353
Gallente The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:05:00 -
[41]
Originally by: goodby4u Yes its a pain the micromanage at these tolerances but remember by the time the ranis pilot gets lucky his drones would probably be dead and he would be nearing hull.
Taranis nearing hull = Taranis with 60% of it's HP still remaining = Taranis isn't even close to dead. ----- http://evenewb.blogspot.com/
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:16:00 -
[42]
Unless your sader has a web it will go down to a decent wll flown ranis. It really is that simple. The only ceptors that can stand a midly decent chance against a ranis IME is the stiletto (I know, sounds odd but try it) and the crow. Oh and the malediction will prob do well but never tried it.
The reason the sader will go down is because a decent speed fit ranis + heat will web you and as soon as that happens unless he is already half way into hull you can wave goodbye to your sader.
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Caelum Dominus
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:21:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 08/07/2008 15:23:17
Originally by: AstroPhobic My crusader (TE, 2x Optimal rigs, Scorch) has an optimal of 15. Some use two TEs, which brings it to 17. That's with 2 (or 3) lowslots left for speed and or CPR/HS. With 2 ODs, it hits 6131m/s. Plus a nano, 6893.
Now the taranis.. with 2x OD and a DC, goes 5582. 2x ODs and a nano 6273. One OD (+ MFS + DC) is 4755.
You don't really fly interceptors yet, do you? When agility and the inevietable lag is taken into an account, a Taranis doing 5km/s can catch a Malediction attacking from 26km+ doing over 8km/s. It requires some clever manuevering, granted, but it's perfectly possible and decent Taranis pilots make this happen very often.
Taranis vs Crow Taranis vs Crusader
Quote: No I dont, im just saying its possible.
If you really think it's possible to stay between 13km and 13.5km when both ships are going faster than 5km/s, you need to reconsider posting in this thread (and any other thread about interceptors, for that matter).
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Caelum Dominus
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:22:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 08/07/2008 15:22:04 Double post.
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:24:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Caelum Dominus Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 08/07/2008 15:07:01
Quote: No I dont, im just saying its possible.
No, it's not possible to stay between 13km and 13.5km when both ships are going faster than 5km/s. You're making yourself look like a fool, and the same goes for the chap above with the massive wall of theorycrafting.
Its not a theory... Ive used that setup before and it works.
Its helpful because that means youll hit any interceptor that has the testiclular fortitude to fight you.
Also, your the one who started the EFT war, I see my setup beating yours by .5km on EFT so that means I win does it not? Now if you wanted to talk about eve and not EFT then I wouldnt be able to as my setup is highly classified... But I assure you the ranis while being an awesome interceptor, capable of taking on bigger ships then itself solo, doesnt do very well against ships such as the crusader which is made almost solely to take out other intys.
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:27:00 -
[46]
Originally by: AstroPhobic Edited by: AstroPhobic on 08/07/2008 15:02:14 My crusader (TE, 2x Optimal rigs, Scorch) has an optimal of 15. Some use two TEs, which brings it to 17. That's with 2 (or 3) lowslots left for speed and or CPR/HS. With 2 ODs, it hits 6131m/s. Plus a nano, 6893.
Now the taranis.. with 2x OD and a DC, goes 5582. 2x ODs and a nano 6273. One OD (+ MFS + DC) is 4755.
I'm sorry but it really does annoy me when you only rig 1 ship (ranis +2 OD + 2 aux thrusters = 6067m/s (8699 with heat))
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:29:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: AstroPhobic Edited by: AstroPhobic on 08/07/2008 15:02:14 My crusader (TE, 2x Optimal rigs, Scorch) has an optimal of 15. Some use two TEs, which brings it to 17. That's with 2 (or 3) lowslots left for speed and or CPR/HS. With 2 ODs, it hits 6131m/s. Plus a nano, 6893.
Now the taranis.. with 2x OD and a DC, goes 5582. 2x ODs and a nano 6273. One OD (+ MFS + DC) is 4755.
I'm sorry but it really does annoy me when you only rig 1 ship (ranis +2 OD + 2 aux thrusters = 6067m/s (8699 with heat))
Oh he put rigs on it? then in that case ive never used that ship before.
But it can still fly outside web overload range without them.
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Caelum Dominus
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:32:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 08/07/2008 15:34:31
Originally by: goodby4u Its not a theory... Ive used that setup before and it works.
Its helpful because that means youll hit any interceptor that has the testiclular fortitude to fight you.
Also, your the one who started the EFT war, I see my setup beating yours by .5km on EFT so that means I win does it not? Now if you wanted to talk about eve and not EFT then I wouldnt be able to as my setup is highly classified... But I assure you the ranis while being an awesome interceptor, capable of taking on bigger ships then itself solo, doesnt do very well against ships such as the crusader which is made almost solely to take out other intys.
I expect most people with a clue don't need EFT to know that the tank of a Taranis is superior to that of a Crusader, not to mention the vast difference in damage output of these two ships. I'm talking about EVE, and it is not a game where you can stay between 13km and 13.5km of another interceptor. If you had any experience with interceptors, you would know this.
If you'd like, we can arrange a 1v1 with your Crusader and my Taranis and I'm sure you will realize.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:33:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: AstroPhobic Edited by: AstroPhobic on 08/07/2008 15:02:14 My crusader (TE, 2x Optimal rigs, Scorch) has an optimal of 15. Some use two TEs, which brings it to 17. That's with 2 (or 3) lowslots left for speed and or CPR/HS. With 2 ODs, it hits 6131m/s. Plus a nano, 6893.
Now the taranis.. with 2x OD and a DC, goes 5582. 2x ODs and a nano 6273. One OD (+ MFS + DC) is 4755.
I'm sorry but it really does annoy me when you only rig 1 ship (ranis +2 OD + 2 aux thrusters = 6067m/s (8699 with heat))
I'm fairly certain most crusaders out there are fit with optimal rigs... taranis' tend to die more often, therefore I'm not sure that most taranis pilots fit aux thrusters. Price difference should be taken into consideration, however I don't think it's accurate to say that the majority of taranis pilots fit 2 aux thrusters.
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:36:00 -
[50]
Edited by: goodby4u on 08/07/2008 15:38:04
Originally by: Caelum Dominus
Originally by: goodby4u Its not a theory... Ive used that setup before and it works.
Its helpful because that means youll hit any interceptor that has the testiclular fortitude to fight you.
Also, your the one who started the EFT war, I see my setup beating yours by .5km on EFT so that means I win does it not? Now if you wanted to talk about eve and not EFT then I wouldnt be able to as my setup is highly classified... But I assure you the ranis while being an awesome interceptor, capable of taking on bigger ships then itself solo, doesnt do very well against ships such as the crusader which is made almost solely to take out other intys.
I expect most people with a clue don't need EFT to know that the tank of a Taranis is superior to that of a Crusader, not to mention the vast difference in damage output of these two ships. I'm talking about EVE, and it is not a game where you can stay between 13km and 13.5km of another interceptor. If you had any experience with interceptors, you would know this.
If you'd like, we could arrange a 1v1 with your Crusader and my Taranis and I will prove my point(s).
I told you before the reason behind me thinking the crusader has a better tank, its because I was comparing the two with speed mods and since the crusader has more armor then it wins.
And like I said, your starting an EFT war and since I win by .5km on paper I win period.... And also like I said I cannot give you my current crusader setup so I cant debate against you whilst giving proof, but I can say I usually dont die to a ranis pilot unless there is either lag, or I have some bodily problems atm.
Lastly, atm its 10 am, and im about to go on my morning jog.
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Caelum Dominus
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:37:00 -
[51]
Originally by: goodby4u I told you before the reason behind me thinking the crusader has a better tank, its because I was comparing the two with speed mods and since the crusader has more armor then it wins.
And like I said, your starting an EFT war and since I win by .5km on paper I win period.
Lastly, atm its 10 am, and im about to go on my morning jog.
Feel free to contact me tomorrow for a 1v1, if it interests you to get a clue.
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:45:00 -
[52]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: AstroPhobic Edited by: AstroPhobic on 08/07/2008 15:02:14 My crusader (TE, 2x Optimal rigs, Scorch) has an optimal of 15. Some use two TEs, which brings it to 17. That's with 2 (or 3) lowslots left for speed and or CPR/HS. With 2 ODs, it hits 6131m/s. Plus a nano, 6893.
Now the taranis.. with 2x OD and a DC, goes 5582. 2x ODs and a nano 6273. One OD (+ MFS + DC) is 4755.
I'm sorry but it really does annoy me when you only rig 1 ship (ranis +2 OD + 2 aux thrusters = 6067m/s (8699 with heat))
I'm fairly certain most crusaders out there are fit with optimal rigs... taranis' tend to die more often, therefore I'm not sure that most taranis pilots fit aux thrusters. Price difference should be taken into consideration, however I don't think it's accurate to say that the majority of taranis pilots fit 2 aux thrusters.
In all fairness the majority of sader pilots don't fly with optimal rigs (the other poster arguing its case for a start) and like I said in another thread, they are only 2mil more expensive and you really shouldn't be dying any more in a ranis than in a sader if all your doing is anti ceptor.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.08 15:53:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Dheorl
In all fairness the majority of sader pilots don't fly with optimal rigs (the other poster arguing its case for a start) and like I said in another thread, they are only 2mil more expensive and you really shouldn't be dying any more in a ranis than in a sader if all your doing is anti ceptor.
The only fit I've seen agreed upon is the 2x optimal fit. Maybe that's just a forum thing, I don't know and there's no real way to know. All I'm really saying is crusader tends to have a bit more GTFO ability whereas the taranis either kills or gets killed.
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.08 16:00:00 -
[54]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Dheorl
In all fairness the majority of sader pilots don't fly with optimal rigs (the other poster arguing its case for a start) and like I said in another thread, they are only 2mil more expensive and you really shouldn't be dying any more in a ranis than in a sader if all your doing is anti ceptor.
The only fit I've seen agreed upon is the 2x optimal fit. Maybe that's just a forum thing, I don't know and there's no real way to know. All I'm really saying is crusader tends to have a bit more GTFO ability whereas the taranis either kills or gets killed.
I would have said in a ceptor fight the ranis has waaay more GTFO ability, purely because of its extra hp and web. With the crusader once your webbed your either gona die or kill the guy whos webbing you, ranis you just web back, overload and zoom off (or of course just blast them).
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Great Artista
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.08 16:15:00 -
[55]
Hi,
As a crusader pilot, I have to say that I am afraid of webbing ceptors. I roll with 2x optimal rig + tracking enhanter, 2x CPR's and overdrive II. So I'm rather slow, 5km/s as max speed (acceleration control 5). It runs perma with this setup, cap skills are 5/5. I do abouts 105 dps, from which generally none is lost to tracking (maximum transferal speed being bigger than my max speed at 15km), some is lost to fall-off issues because the range needs to vary only couple of km's to drop the dps to half. The damage is sick when you take account that we're talking about a frigate, the massive tracking, reasonable speed, 15km range and small signature radius.
IMO it's safe to say that crusader is the best overall-ceptor, while others come first in specialized situations; stiletto = tackling, taranis = up-in-the-face (dies to webs and drones easily, but good in gangs). _______
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.08 16:18:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Great Artista Hi,
As a crusader pilot, I have to say that I am afraid of webbing ceptors. I roll with 2x optimal rig + tracking enhanter, 2x CPR's and overdrive II. So I'm rather slow, 5km/s as max speed (acceleration control 5). It runs perma with this setup, cap skills are 5/5. I do abouts 105 dps, from which generally none is lost to tracking (maximum transferal speed being bigger than my max speed at 15km), some is lost to fall-off issues because the range needs to vary only couple of km's to drop the dps to half. The damage is sick when you take account that we're talking about a frigate, the massive tracking, reasonable speed, 15km range and small signature radius.
IMO it's safe to say that crusader is the best overall-ceptor, while others come first in specialized situations; stiletto = tackling, taranis = up-in-the-face (dies to webs and drones easily, but good in gangs).
The crow will do better at taking out cruisers though and tbh I'd rather have the crow for anti ceptor as well purely because of the web.
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.08 17:30:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: Great Artista Hi,
As a crusader pilot, I have to say that I am afraid of webbing ceptors. I roll with 2x optimal rig + tracking enhanter, 2x CPR's and overdrive II. So I'm rather slow, 5km/s as max speed (acceleration control 5). It runs perma with this setup, cap skills are 5/5. I do abouts 105 dps, from which generally none is lost to tracking (maximum transferal speed being bigger than my max speed at 15km), some is lost to fall-off issues because the range needs to vary only couple of km's to drop the dps to half. The damage is sick when you take account that we're talking about a frigate, the massive tracking, reasonable speed, 15km range and small signature radius.
IMO it's safe to say that crusader is the best overall-ceptor, while others come first in specialized situations; stiletto = tackling, taranis = up-in-the-face (dies to webs and drones easily, but good in gangs).
The crow will do better at taking out cruisers though and tbh I'd rather have the crow for anti ceptor as well purely because of the web.
Crusader melts crows, and if your referring to a rocket crow then why not just use a malediction?
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Dheorl
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.08 18:03:00 -
[58]
Originally by: goodby4u Crusader melts crows, and if your referring to a rocket crow then why not just use a malediction?
Due to range. Also I never said anything about crow vs sader (because depending on fits it can be a pretty close fight), just that a crow would do better against cruisers and other ceptors.
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Horizon Taker
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.07.08 18:08:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Dheorl
Originally by: goodby4u Crusader melts crows, and if your referring to a rocket crow then why not just use a malediction?
Due to range. Also I never said anything about crow vs sader (because depending on fits it can be a pretty close fight), just that a crow would do better against cruisers and other ceptors.
If the malediction had a missile bonus instead of a rocket bonus... /drool
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MITSUK0
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Posted - 2008.07.08 18:24:00 -
[60]
Edited by: MITSUK0 on 08/07/2008 18:25:02 If the 'sader has a point instead of a web then its advantage taranis. Though the crusader can still win if it gets enough of a dps lead before the web lands. Crusader can fit a dmg control aswell and in that config its actually not that far behind a ranis in EHP.
If crusader has a web and not a point which is how it should run for pure dogfighting then its advantage crusader, it is fast enough to pin the taranis at the edge of web range and can deal enough dps to wtfpwn it.
Tried and tested by many pvp'ers, I first saw it used by ifni who you may know as an expert from eve tv and alliance tourneys.
If the crusader is running beams and point then its basically like a crow only better since it can deal dps to things that go faster than 5k.
Personally I love the malediction. EDIT: stay the **** away from my rocket bonus please, missles suck for dogfighting and javlin rockets can pwn cruisernoobs just aswell as std missiles.
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