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CCC vs Semicon. Mem. Cell

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Author	Topic
shavada	Posted - 2008.07.08 15:36:00 - [1] CCC gives cap recharge Semiconductor Memory Cell gives +cap (and thus cap recharge aswell) Is it wise to go for 3x mem. cell in some cases instead of 3x CCC? EFT says the recharge is almost the same on a Chimera and you get an added load of cap, so it seems the better choice.
Arvald Caldari Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.08 15:38:00 - [2] i prefer semi but ccc are much cheaper, so depends on your price range Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw Stealthbomber combat (or as i like to call it: Just because you *are* paranoid don't mean there isnt a invisible demon about to eat your face)
NoNah	Posted - 2008.07.08 15:42:00 - [3] For caps, no, never worth going Semiconductors imho. 1. You need cap for everything you do, it's the very essence of life. You want to recharge back up as soon as possible ones neuts are dead in small scale engagements. You want as low amount of cap as possible keep hostile noses as useless as possible. 2. After a jump a large portion of cap is used, and you need it back up to jump again, CCC's make this faster, semiconductors makes aid from allies less useful(cap transfers). Biggest two reasons the way I see it. Dreads is a slightly different thing, but if you have to go cap rigs I'd still go CCC > Semiconductor probably mostly due to 2. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 236390
shavada	Posted - 2008.07.08 15:50:00 - [4] Ah yes didnt think of jumping as it needs a % of your cap :( hmm tough one...
Caffeine Junkie 2 Guys In Motherships	Posted - 2008.07.08 15:50:00 - [5] Afaik: CCC = Improved Regen (cap/sec) SMC = Increased Total Cap and therefore improved Regen (cap/sec) However while the SMC does improve you cap/sec regen by almost as much as a CCC, because it increases your total cap size it takes longer for you to reach the 71.25% cap you need to jump, therefore on capital ships at least you would always go for CCC. Nothing special, not big or clever, just 20 fighters and one hell of a tank....
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.08 16:06:00 - [6] Originally by: Caffeine Junkie However while the SMC does improve you cap/sec regen by almost as much as a CCC, because it increases your total cap size it takes longer for you to reach the 71.25% cap you need to jump, therefore on capital ships at least you would always go for CCC. Not true. The time it takes to reach 71% stays exactly the same. I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.08 16:08:00 - [7] This topic comes up quite a bit. The simple breakdown is: CCC - Increase Cap Recharge Rate SMC - Increase Cap Size CCC's yield More cap/s SMC's yield a longer maximum sustained effort. CCC's work best on ships that are looking for sustained effeciency (Mission ships primarily) where SMC's work best for ships that only care how long they can work at maximum potential (PVP ships, and most importantly cap ships) It is rare to find a ship that consists of pure SMC rigs for a number of reasons. First, they are significantly more expensive than CCC's, making them less attractive for PVP as it increases your total loss when your ship inevitably explodes. Second, on the most common ships you'll find these guys SMC's may boost your max sustainable effort but it also means your movement speed is low. Cap ships rely on their jump drives to move about and using said drive consumes a huge portion of thier cap - CCC's decrease the time they spend waiting for cap to recharge and as such a combination of CCC's and SMC's are generally used.
N3oXr2ii	Posted - 2008.07.08 16:30:00 - [8] so for a lv4 mission ship i would be better with 2 ccc rather than 2 semi's considering i only had 2 rig slots left ?
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.07.08 17:32:00 - [9] Originally by: N3oXr2ii so for a lv4 mission ship i would be better with 2 ccc rather than 2 semi's considering i only had 2 rig slots left ? The Triple-Cs work out better in many cases, but SMCs do help prevent alpha strikes against your capacitor (such as from a mwd or heavy tank). I've found a few cases where the SMCs worked out better cap stability than triple Cs. Play around with the two in EFT. ---
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.07.08 18:45:00 - [10] In PVE CCCs will do mostly better than SMCs(exept buffer style Setups like a Tach Abaddon). CCCs are better in the long run(that is not allways needet ofc). Where SMCs are realy efficent are PVP Setups that live and die with the Cap. This setups are very powerfull but can¦t substain herself very long, not even with a permarunning Cap Booster. As a expample I would name a Dualrepp Blastermega, the ship can take serious Damage, deal it and is quite mobile. In exchange it¦s lives and dies with his Cap the extra Cap don¦t prevent it from caping out but slows down the process quite a bit in actual combat. Cap Recharge can¦t buy time here since the Cap need is simply overwhelming but the extra Cap can make it less painfull. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.

Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.07.08 18:50:00 - [11] Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 08/07/2008 18:53:32 Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 08/07/2008 18:52:49 Originally by: Sokratesz Not true. The time it takes to reach 71% stays exactly the same. Nope. With CCCs, it takes less time to reach 71% cap (recharge time is reduced). With semiconductors, the time it takes to recharge stays the same, but you recharge more per second simply because there is more cap to recharge. If one ship had one billion cap and the other had 1000, it would take the 1000 ship less time to reach 71% if it has less recharge time, and more time if it has a longer recharge time. My favorite part was the skill remark. That made my day
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.08 19:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Edit: Wait, am I agreeing with you? Yes, yes you are I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.07.08 19:03:00 - [13] You have a tradeoff. You have slightly more peak regen with 3x CCC. You have more cap with 3x SMCs, so you can suck up being neuted longer. I'd come down with CCCs for capitals, for the rejump delay as mentioned above. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.07.08 19:19:00 - [14] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Edit: Wait, am I agreeing with you? Yes, yes you are Thought so My favorite part was the skill remark. That made my day
Caffeine Junkie 2 Guys In Motherships	Posted - 2008.07.08 19:39:00 - [15] Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 08/07/2008 19:42:42 Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Caffeine Junkie However while the SMC does improve you cap/sec regen by almost as much as a CCC, because it increases your total cap size it takes longer for you to reach the 71.25% cap you need to jump, therefore on capital ships at least you would always go for CCC. Not true. The time it takes to reach 71% stays exactly the same. The time it takes to get to 71.25% remains the same as the base ship with no rigs, but is not the same as one with 3x CCCs on it. Nothing special, not big or clever, just 20 fighters and one hell of a tank....
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.08 19:56:00 - [16] Thats not how it works. Regardless of the capacitor size, the time to 71% will be equal if the total recharge time is equal. I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them.
Caffeine Junkie 2 Guys In Motherships	Posted - 2008.07.08 19:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Sokratesz Thats not how it works. Regardless of the capacitor size, the time to 71% will be equal if the total recharge time is equal. But the recharge time won't be equal. Ship with 3x CCC will have lower recharge time than one with 3x SMC. Correct? Nothing special, not big or clever, just 20 fighters and one hell of a tank....
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.08 20:01:00 - [18] Originally by: Caffeine Junkie Wyvern with Maxed Skills (T2 Travel fit (CPRs + Cap Rechargers)): With 2x CCC II / 1x CCC I: Peak Regen: 2105 / sec Cap Size: 79688 = (79688 / 100) * 71 = 56578 / 2105 = 26 seconds. With 2x SMC II / 1x SMC I: Peak Regen: 1896 / sec Cap Size: 131963 = (131963 / 100) * 71 = 93693 / 1896 = 49 seconds. That is wrong on many levels. First of all cap recharge time is the time it takes for a full recharge from 0 to 100%. Second, the peak recharge is only valid at about 30%, at any point other than that the recharge is much lower. Due to the nature of the formula, it's not possible to simply work off of that number to calculate the time it takes to get to a certain percentage. I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them.
Caffeine Junkie 2 Guys In Motherships	Posted - 2008.07.08 20:02:00 - [19] Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 08/07/2008 20:04:55 Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Caffeine Junkie Wyvern with Maxed Skills (T2 Travel fit (CPRs + Cap Rechargers)): With 2x CCC II / 1x CCC I: Peak Regen: 2105 / sec Cap Size: 79688 = (79688 / 100) * 71 = 56578 / 2105 = 26 seconds. With 2x SMC II / 1x SMC I: Peak Regen: 1896 / sec Cap Size: 131963 = (131963 / 100) * 71 = 93693 / 1896 = 49 seconds. That is wrong on many levels. First of all cap recharge time is the time it takes for a full recharge from 0 to 100%. Second, the peak recharge is only valid at about 30%, at any point other than that the recharge is much lower. Due to the nature of the formula, it's not possible to simply work off of that number to calculate the time it takes to get to a certain percentage. Ok i was certain before and now i'm not so sure! lol. But I am positive that SMCs will take longer to get back to jump level than CCCs. "First of all cap recharge time is the time it takes for a full recharge from 0 to 100%. Second, the peak recharge is only valid at about 30%, at any point other than that the recharge is much lower." I'll grant you that this is indeed true, however as both cap regens will follow the same curve, its moot. Nothing special, not big or clever, just 20 fighters and one hell of a tank....
Caffeine Junkie 2 Guys In Motherships	Posted - 2008.07.09 00:51:00 - [20] Ok the more I think about this, the more I am conviced we are both wrong, if someone out there (a dev maybe) can tell me for sure I would appreciate it, else its just going to bug me. Nothing special, not big or clever, just 20 fighters and one hell of a tank....

Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.09 01:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Caffeine Junkie Ok the more I think about this, the more I am conviced we are both wrong, if someone out there (a dev maybe) can tell me for sure I would appreciate it, else its just going to bug me. I can't even tell what you guys are arguing about, but as I understand it you'll regenerate to a %'age faster with CCC's. With the +capacity rigs, 1% means more, and so your regen per second will be competitive with the CCC's (albeit less). That's in raw regen though, and not as a %'age.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.07.09 01:49:00 - [22] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Caffeine Junkie However while the SMC does improve you cap/sec regen by almost as much as a CCC, because it increases your total cap size it takes longer for you to reach the 71.25% cap you need to jump, therefore on capital ships at least you would always go for CCC. Not true. The time it takes to reach 71% stays exactly the same. While his REASONING was flawed, the final conclusion was correct. Yes, you do jump faster with CCCs. However, it's not because SMCs increase cap amount, but because CCCs reduce cap recharge time. _ *The mineral/moonstuff balance \|\| THE* nanofix**
The 0verseer	Posted - 2008.07.09 02:02:00 - [23] Originally by: Akita T However, it's not because SMCs increase cap amount, but because CCCs reduce cap recharge time. Bingo. They don't have the same recharge time
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.09 04:33:00 - [24] Originally by: The 0verseer Originally by: Akita T However, it's not because SMCs increase cap amount, but because CCCs reduce cap recharge time. Bingo. They don't have the same recharge time I'll be honest - I'm confused by the confusion. SMC's increase cap/s regenen by increasing base cap (Cap/recharge time * whatever the multiplier is for your current level of cap) but the amount of time it takes to get from 0 - 71% remains the same. The time it takes to go from 100% - 0% is increased thanks to substantially improved cap amounts. CCC's increase charge rate and as such decrease the time it takes to get from 0 - 71% and slightly reduce the time it takes to get from 100 - 0% (thanks to the offset in how much cap/s your losing in total - it may or may not a huge improvement depending upon just how close you toe the line of cap stability and your cap amount). I don't think that helped.
NoNah	Posted - 2008.07.09 05:07:00 - [25] Edited by: NoNah on 09/07/2008 05:08:05 My god, it's really not that complicated. A capacitor control circuit I reduces the cap recharge time by 15%. A semiconductor memory cell reduces it by 0%. Yes, they will give a comparable amount of cap per second extra. So three CCC's lowers the cap recharge time to 0.85^3 approximately equal to 61% in any given interval, it does not matter wether you go from 0->100%, 0->71% or x-y it'll _always_ take 61% of the time. No exceptions. As for SMC's they lower the cap recharge time by 1^3 approximately equal to 100%, in any given interval, it does not matter wether you go from 0->100%, 0->71% or x-y it'll _always_ take 100% of the original time. No exceptions. Using 3 CCC's you will gain 1% cap 62.8% faster than using 3 SMC's. Using 3 CCC's you will gain 1 cap 7% faster than using 3 SMC's. Using 3 CCC's you will have 52% more cap as a buffer. Edit: As a reservation y must be greater than x. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 732396
shavada	Posted - 2008.07.09 10:46:00 - [26] Edited by: shavada on 09/07/2008 10:51:21 Edited by: shavada on 09/07/2008 10:49:53 The thing people seem to get confused with (and I think is clear to me): SMC give more cap, thats all they do. CCC increase your ships recharge, thats all they do. Understand that we are talking about the ship's cap recharge, which is the time it takes for the ship to fill its capacitor from 0% to 100%, with no mods or anything activated. So if your ship fills its capacitor in 5 minutes it will fill it in 5 minutes, if you have 10 cap or 10 million, doesnt matter, yet in the first case your recharge will be 2 cap / minute and in the latter it will be 2 million / minute If you then add cap quantity (by SMC) say from 10 million to 12 million Your recharge time stays the same, 5 minutes But now you recharge 12 million in 5 minutes instead of 10, so your recharge is 2.4 million / minute So your recharge goes up aswell, but not because of the SMC but because of how the ships work. So if a SMC gives the same recharge as a CCC (they dont, SMC's are lower but if) you would be able to jump just as fast, sadly the SMC's induced regen is lower then a CCC.
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.09 11:03:00 - [27] Edited by: Boz Well on 09/07/2008 11:04:26 Quote: So if a SMC gives the same recharge as a CCC (they dont, SMC's are lower but if) you would be able to jump just as fast, sadly the SMC's induced regen is lower then a CCC. I don't do caps, heh, but the quoted number earlier in this post was something like 71%... if all that matters is the percentage, and not a fixed amount of cap, then your statement is incorrect. The SMC's will recharge to 71% at the same rate as a ship with no SMC's on. The difference is that 71% on the ship with SMC's is a lot more cap than a ship without. The time to reach 71% is the same. No so for a ship with CCC's. Nonah/Derek explain it pretty well I think. See - Quote: So three CCC's lowers the cap recharge time to 0.85^3 approximately equal to 61% in any given interval, it does not matter wether you go from 0->100%, 0->71% or x-y it'll _always_ take 61% of the time. No exceptions. As for SMC's they lower the cap recharge time by 1^3 approximately equal to 100%, in any given interval, it does not matter wether you go from 0->100%, 0->71% or x-y it'll _always_ take 100% of the original time. No exceptions.
shavada	Posted - 2008.07.09 12:01:00 - [28] Quote: I don't do caps, heh, but the quoted number earlier in this post was something like 71%... if all that matters is the percentage, and not a fixed amount of cap, then your statement is incorrect. The SMC's will recharge to 71% at the same rate as a ship with no SMC's on. The difference is that 71% on the ship with SMC's is a lot more cap than a ship without. The time to reach 71% is the same. No so for a ship with CCC's. Nonah/Derek explain it pretty well I think. See - Thats what I said =)
Viqtoria Caldari Groping Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.07.09 12:22:00 - [29] wtf ofcourse 3xccc will get you to 71% or whatever faster than 3xsmc, how can you even begin to argue over that? do any of you even play this game outside of EFT?
Caffeine Junkie 2 Guys In Motherships	Posted - 2008.07.09 12:39:00 - [30] Originally by: Viqtoria wtf ofcourse 3xccc will get you to 71% or whatever faster than 3xsmc, how can you even begin to argue over that? do any of you even play this game outside of EFT? Yes, which is why I know its true, what we was being explained, was why. Nothing special, not big or clever, just 20 fighters and one hell of a tank....

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