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Help me place some freed slaves.

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Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.07.15 04:47:00 - [31] Originally by: AsheRaven My people can either make good cizitens out of them or.... well we'd be happy to take them out of your hands and offer them the freedoms and privlidges of any freemman in this Galaxy I think you missed a very important piece of information... they would prefer to live a life of servitude. They are looking for new masters because some foolish owner mistreated your ancestors causing them to rise up against the Amarr. Not all masters are cowards who hide behind stores of Vitoc and slave drivers with whips (and not the good kind either). And it is fools like yourself that have caused a lot of the unemployment problems, over population, and starvation issues. When a slave is properly taken care of, they never go hungry (or at least more than the average working person), their family is provided for, they have shelter and protection provided, and they have a sense of stability in their lives. This idea that being a slave is the end of their existence is rather taxing on my nerves. Show me any other "profession" in which the health and wellbeing of the "employees" is as paramount as it is with slaves... if I have someone working for me who breaks their leg and won't be able to work, I'll fire them; but if one of my slaves has the same accident the local medical facilities get some spare ISK to patch them up. Some people prefer the safety and security that comes with slavery, and you have no right to take their right to be a slave (and these people have made an obvious declaration of their intent to live in servitude).
AsheRaven Minmatar The Stormcrow Milita	Posted - 2008.07.15 20:30:00 - [32] The we shall make servitude to the Clan one of their choices. Better to serve the greater plan of ones own people than to serve a basic whim ---------------------------------
Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.07.15 21:02:00 - [33] Originally by: AsheRaven The we shall make servitude to the Clan one of their choices. Better to serve the greater plan of ones own people than to serve a basic whim absolute glee is spread across Inara's face as she opens the Comm And the free slave offers to put others into slavery... the irony of that is beyond comprehension. Not only that, the last time I checked, the Minmatar frowned upon ownership of their people (at least, I'm guessing that's why your local police were shooting at me). the glee is quickly replaced by concern as her eyes narrow to dark slits Please, explain how you plan on owning these people when your own government would shoot you for the thought? Do you have the facilities to house and feed them, not to mention the finances to properly take care of them (food, clothing, life support, medical, etc...)? I guess I should expect as much from the short sighted servants of "the Clan". As for what is better for them, I fail to see how forcing them to fight in a "freedom fight" for freedoms they obviously don't want is better than serving someone who is relatively unbound by the restrictions of any particular faction (I am an equal opportunity owner, and hold no allegiances to any of the 4 States).
AsheRaven Minmatar The Stormcrow Milita	Posted - 2008.07.15 23:06:00 - [34] Child, everyone in the cllan is in service to the greater whole to the clan. Perhaps that is irony to you as slavery, but to use it is a core service that benefits the whole. Each is awarded to his work and achievements. It s amazing that the opportunity to serve the needs of the whole than to serve the whims of the powerful is lost on even you. Grin all you want, just enjoy the yoke ---------------------------------
BloodBird Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.07.15 23:21:00 - [35] Originally by: Silver Night Edited by: Silver Night on 11/07/2008 23:56:54 The Nation has use for those who are willing to do hard work. Of course, they would not be slaves anymore. They would be free to practice religion as they see fit, and there is always plenty of work to do. Originally by: BloodBird (OOC: Cute story, but keep in mind capsuleers can NOT leave their capsules during flight. We can only leave them once docked, as we 'board' a ship by having the pod inserted/removed by a lifting device especially made for the job. Only when the pod is placed on the Station's deck can it be opened to allow the Capsuleer out, or back in.) ((You're wrong, pod can be modified so you can leave it during flight. Not that you would want to in most cases, but it is possible. Also, even if he is slightly wrong, there is really no need to be so nitpicky. Finally, even if you think he is wrong, you can mail him IG. There is, after all, no need to embarass someone in front of others for their error)) (Sorry for the constant ooc, but I was not aware of this, far as I understood it your unable to leave the pod while in space. I might have been wrong though. Also, I notified him here as I'm unable to log in and play EVE at the time, so I can't send any mails or anything in-game.) Sig source
Sallera Zephyr Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.07.16 01:53:00 - [36] Originally by: BloodBird (Sorry for the constant ooc, but I was not aware of this, far as I understood it your unable to leave the pod while in space. I might have been wrong though. Also, I notified him here as I'm unable to log in and play EVE at the time, so I can't send any mails or anything in-game.) ((As he said, standard is no you can't, but it can be modified. The reference is in the novel, so it may be completely new to the PF, but it is out there.))
Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.07.16 03:53:00 - [37] Originally by: AsheRaven Child, everyone in the cllan is in service to the greater whole to the clan. Perhaps that is irony to you as slavery, but to use it is a core service that benefits the whole. Each is awarded to his work and achievements. It s amazing that the opportunity to serve the needs of the whole than to serve the whims of the powerful is lost on even you. Grin all you want, just enjoy the yoke shakes head and unintelligible mumblings are heard as the Comm flickers to life All loyal citizens of the Amarr empire should thank you, I now actually have some respect for them compared to the philosophy you have thrown into that transmission. First off though, don't address someone who is superior to you as child, I'm liable to turn you over my knee. You condemn slave owners who (following the true Amarrian beliefs) wish only to enlighten and redeem those under their care, or slave owners such as myself that wish to use their expertise for profit while giving them a relatively safe environment to raise their families. Yet you will steal people away from their chosen lives and families only to put them into service removing others from their chosen lives and families... the very logic behind that almost locked my Nemesis' interface in a logic loop. Fortunately, I was able to dock up and reset the memory and access this without endangering any other vital systems. The opportunity to serve the needs of the whole is not lost on me, however the whole that the individual is serving should be one that they themselves have faith in. These individuals are free, not by their choice, and have the option of choosing what to do with their lives (assuming their original owners can not claim them); given this choice, they choose to return to service for someone else. Why would they choose to go to work for someone who has the intention of removing others from their chosen lives, when their own lives were ruined by the same type of people? That is like asking an Amarr pilot who is devout in his faith to show support for those that support the Sani Sabik and it's rather dark teachings. The idea would probably make the good Archbishop visibly shudder. And maybe you missed it, but when a "freeman" fighting for the freedom of others decides to take slaves... you have defined irony. a rather loud laugh is heard rolling through the broadcast at this point If you believe you are capable of putting a yoke on my neck, by all means please attempt to do so. I bow before no one, and to suggest that I would submit myself to the likes of you is enough to make a Civire laugh when the market is bad. And to the originator of this conversation, have you found those people good homes? My offer still stands, I have a few 'house servants' who have offered to record a communication for those that are still undecided on where they would like to go. My foreman in the ammunition storage area has also informed me that I am in need of several specialists with missile detonation triggers, apparently a small portion of my recent supply of Mjolnir Torpedoes had faulty circuits. mumbles about dirty Gallente traders cutting corners as the comm goes dark
Veron Daerth Amarr Blood Meridian	Posted - 2008.07.16 05:12:00 - [38] Indeed, Pilot Madrosynth, I too would be most honored to accept these poor souls into my care. If you wish to, please contact me privately to arrange a pick up or delivery. God grant you wisdom, Pilots.
AsheRaven Minmatar The Stormcrow Milita	Posted - 2008.07.16 12:22:00 - [39] Originally by: Inara Subaka shakes head and unintelligible mumblings are heard as the Comm flickers to life Please continue to educate us on Ammarian stupidty, lets listen on Originally by: Inara Subaka All loyal citizens of the Amarr empire should thank you, I now actually have some respect for them compared to the philosophy you have thrown into that transmission. True true, but then I am an arrogant, flesh easting, blood drinking monster, so what di you expect? Civilty? I'm sorry I dissapointed you... no wait.. I am not. Originally by: Inara Subaka First off though, don't address someone who is superior to you as child, I'm liable to turn you over my knee. You clearly have never met a free Brutor. If you're willing to put that to the test, child, name the time and place, I will be there, with cane in hand. Originally by: Inara Subaka You condemn slave owners who (following the true Amarrian beliefs) wish only to enlighten and redeem those under their care, or slave owners such as myself that wish to use their expertise for profit while giving them a relatively safe environment to raise their families. Yet you will steal people away from their chosen lives and families only to put them into service removing others from their chosen lives and families... the very logic behind that almost locked my Nemesis' interface in a logic loop. Fortunately, I was able to dock up and reset the memory and access this without endangering any other vital systems. The irony here is the term "care". Care is the nurturing and education of a child who you eventually set free into the harsh world to fend for themsellves, for good or bad. Care is not the armada of battleship stroming down onto your ancestors homeworld, wiping out their well established hostories and forcing their decesndents to see your point of view. That is dictorship at it's very best, brutality and, if you forgive me for usining a cvile reference, the ** of a soceiety. In short it is about bpower, not nuture or care or even love. The act itself is destructive, even if it benefits your beliefs. You do not wish to know how it is I see you, this is a public channel. Originally by:** Inara Subaka The opportunity to serve the needs of the whole is not lost on me, however the whole that the individual is serving should be one that they themselves have faith in. These individuals are free, not by their choice, and have the option of choosing what to do with their lives (assuming their original owners can not claim them); given this choice, they choose to return to service for someone else. Why would they choose to go to work for someone who has the intention of removing others from their chosen lives, when their own lives were ruined by the same type of people? That is an easy aurgument to make, when you have told them there is no other way but your way. Answer me these questions. Without knowing of another life outside of what you have taught them alll their lives, what other options are there for them? Again your aurgument is flawed by it's very premise, child. Of course they will return to you for service, they know nothing else. Does that ake it right? I refer you to the references of my previous paragraph, as vile as the may seem to you, the point still sticks and you prove the aurgument oh so well. Originally by: Inara Subaka That is like asking an Amarr pilot who is devout in his faith to show support for those that support the Sani Sabik and it's rather dark teachings. The idea would probably make the good Archbishop visibly shudder. Why? I am devout follower of Sani Sabik's teachings. To be honest I can think of a few Amarians, especially my old keeper, Archbishop, who would benefit from the teachings of Sani Sabik. I would never force you to do so, neither would I enslave your descendetns to believe what I believe. There is the fundamental difference. ---------------------------------
AsheRaven Minmatar The Stormcrow Milita	Posted - 2008.07.16 12:29:00 - [40] Originally by: Inara Subaka And maybe you missed it, but when a "freeman" fighting for the freedom of others decides to take slaves... you have defined irony. I'm sorry that the obvious is lost on you child. If they choose servitude to the clan that is their business. However they will also know the options and opportunities avaialbe to them shoudl they decide to take them. The difference between you and me is that what you term slaves would always be free in my care. They will profit, they will learn what it means to profit. They will learn what it means to be free, without dogma, with out faith and without the limited one sided knowledge that their masters are right all the time. Did I say master? I see no contraditiction here. I am lord and master of the Blood Clan, but not by right of force, by right tradition and practice. Don't believe for one minuite we are a democratic clan, but we understand the concepts of freedom and the nesseacry. Originally by: Inara Subaka a rather loud laugh is heard rolling through the broadcast at this point If you believe you are capable of putting a yoke on my neck, by all means please attempt to do so. I bow before no one, and to suggest that I would submit myself to the likes of you is enough to make a Civire laugh when the market is bad. That was a prety loud laugh I have to admit, but you know whhat they say about empty vessels.... Originally by: Inara Subaka And to the originator of this conversation, have you found those people good homes? My offer still stands, I have a few 'house servants' who have offered to record a communication for those that are still undecided on where they would like to go. My foreman in the ammunition storage area has also informed me that I am in need of several specialists with missile detonation triggers, apparently a small portion of my recent supply of Mjolnir Torpedoes had faulty circuits. mumbles about dirty Gallente traders cutting corners as the comm goes dark You get what you pay for. ---------------------------------

Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.07.16 15:15:00 - [41] Originally by: AsheRaven True true, but then I am an arrogant, flesh easting, blood drinking monster, so what di you expect? Civilty? I'm sorry I dissapointed you... no wait.. I am not. I never accused you of such blood thirst (the arrogance, I will agree with however), one of my good comrades is very deeply involved with the Sani Sabik. Just another religion to tame the masses if you ask me, but that is another discussion for another time. Originally by: AsheRaven You clearly have never met a free Brutor. If you're willing to put that to the test, child, name the time and place, I will be there, with cane in hand. a gleam of joy shines in Inara's eye as she penders the best way to reply Brutor's have serve my... needs for almost as long as I've owned slaves. I am very well versed in their need to dominate, and take pleasure in watching them break and beg. Fly Sing Laison sometime, and we'll talk. Originally by: AsheRaven The irony here is the term "care". Care is the nurturing and education of a child who you eventually set free into the harsh world to fend for themsellves, for good or bad. Care is not the armada of battleship stroming down onto your ancestors homeworld, wiping out their well established hostories and forcing their decesndents to see your point of view. That is dictorship at it's very best, brutality and, if you forgive me for usining a cvile reference, the ** of a soceiety. In short it is about bpower, not nuture or care or even love. The act itself is destructive, even if it benefits your beliefs. You do not wish to know how it is I see you, this is a public channel. I have never abandoned my slaves, nor do I have any intention to. If they serve me long enough they are no longer able to carry on their duties, I have a small community set up planet side near one of the lakes that they are allowed to spend their remaining days enjoying the company of their grandchildren. The thought that I would is appalling enough the first time I read it I was forced to calm down a Brutor that read your words while working out a knot I had in my shoulder at the time (I believe his phrase was something to the effect of ripping your head off and deprecating down your throat). I may be a harsh master, but I am fair in my treatment, and take care of those under my control. Yes, power does play a part in it. And nurture and care are not my reasons for owning slaves. My reasons for owning slaves is far from selfless, I need laborers. I find it is more productive, and incites a dedication to quality, to use slave labor over hired labor. A hired man could simply move on to the next job if the quality is poor, a slave knows that they will have to wake up to my small domain if they fail. However, if I didn't show them the care they need when they perform admirably, their work would be found lacking. And no worries, if you would take the time to read my bio at some point, you will understand that your words are nothing more than compliments. Originally by:** AsheRaven Without knowing of another life outside of what you have taught them alll their lives, what other options are there for them? Ahh, this one is a prime example. I have many slaves (at last count 13%) that were either born free, or were freed by "liberators" such as yourself. They know and have discussed their bouts of freedom with the others and do not wish to return to that life (I do have security feeds in the common rooms). So that logic goes right out the window... bye, bye. con't...
Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.07.16 15:16:00 - [42] Originally by: AsheRaven That is an easy aurgument to make, when you have told them there is no other way but your way. Answer me these questions. Without knowing of another life outside of what you have taught them alll their lives, what other options are there for them? Again your aurgument is flawed by it's very premise, child. Of course they will return to you for service, they know nothing else. Does that ake it right? I refer you to the references of my previous paragraph, as vile as the may seem to you, the point still sticks and you prove the aurgument oh so well. I have never told them that my way is the only way there is. Assuming I didn't allow them an education and have access to information about life outside of my care, you would be correct in assuming they don't have any other options. However, as things are, they have access to the same information the two of us do. In fact there are a few amongst my ranks that have expressed a desire to become pod pilots themselves, if for no other reason than to join the Amarrian forces in repelling the rebellious few that pilot those flying scrapyards some people call ships. While I will be sad to see such good workers leave, when they fulfill their requirements to me and have the opportunity to leave I will do nothing to stop them. Now if they attempted to fight their way to freedom before their service to me has come to an end I will use force to reign them, and if my hand is forced I would have to employ a manor of control I prefer to avoid... Vitoc (or the Gallente version, Tri-Vi, for those that are rather resilient). Originally by: AsheRaven Why? I am devout follower of Sani Sabik's teachings. To be honest I can think of a few Amarians, especially my old keeper, Archbishop, who would benefit from the teachings of Sani Sabik. I would never force you to do so, neither would I enslave your descendetns to believe what I believe. There is the fundamental difference. One of the few pilots in this cluster I trust reads the Sani Sabik more than I read market logs. I personally have no issues with any particular religion, as long as you don't let it interfere with your day to day interactions with those of us who see such things as being trivial. I don't force those under my domain to believe anything, however I would have no problems with the thought of enslaving your descendants if the opportunity presented itself. But, forcing someone with opposing views to fight for something they are perpendicularly against is the worst kind of slavery there is. Why else do you think they wish to return to a slave owner? Originally by: AsheRaven The difference between you and me is that what you term slaves would always be free in my care. They will profit, they will learn what it means to profit. They will learn what it means to be free, without dogma, with out faith and without the limited one sided knowledge that their masters are right all the time. They don't want to be free, they have expressed this feeling after being freed by those that think like you. They don't want to have to live from paycheck to paycheck, not knowing if they will be able to sustain their families. Slavery is not a horrible thing that you apparently have stuck in your mind. Some find comfort in knowing they have a master to turn to. Originally by: AsheRaven You get what you pay for. No kidding. I thought I'd found a good deal, they best hope they don't happen to visit Sing Laison lowsec, their names and the names of their vessels have been relayed to all in my corp.
AsheRaven Minmatar The Stormcrow Milita	Posted - 2008.07.16 16:41:00 - [43] Like I said, it's easy "Not to want to be free" when not being free is all you know. You miss the point as enitrely as anyAmaerrian fool. They wouldnt be in that position if you didn't put them there, ergo, you ****d them of all dignity. The instigator never see's this of course becasue in a position of absolute power, what has he got to loose in a society that doesn't outlaw the debasement of others. ---------------------------------
AsheRaven Minmatar The Stormcrow Milita	Posted - 2008.07.16 16:43:00 - [44] On that point, I wasn't aware I was forcing anyone to fight anyone? Where in my sentence did I say I would tell them to take up arms? ---------------------------------
Kathryn Dougans Amarr B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm	Posted - 2008.07.16 18:17:00 - [45] I would trust Maalan to take care of people.
Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.07.16 18:51:00 - [46] Originally by: AsheRaven Like I said, it's easy "Not to want to be free" when not being free is all you know. Then could you explain the current populace of Gallente, Caldari, and Amarrians that are currently under my control? Most (if not all) of these people started out as free men and women, that when times became tough sought out an honorable slave owner. Am I denying that there is a certain level of institutionalization? Of course not, to say so would be to lie in the face of all logic. However, to say that institutionalization is always a bad thing is just as faulty. You say you want to give them choice, yet you try to take away the choice they have made. Basically telling them they have any choice they want... except what they actually want. And people say that I'm a Btch. eye roll* Originally by: AsheRaven You miss the point as enitrely as anyAmaerrian fool. They wouldnt be in that position if you didn't put them there, ergo, you **d them of all dignity. The instigator never see's this of course becasue in a position of absolute power, what has he got to loose in a society that doesn't outlaw the debasement of others. I'm choosing to ignore your insults for the time being, just be ready to say those words should you fly through Sing Laison. As for stripping my servants of their dignity? Have you gone mad? I owe many things to those that are under me, the fact that I don't have to worry about the trivial things around the base, the organization of my materials, the logistics of handling volatile materials, etc... I live in a society that has outlawed slavery, I was born in the State, and currently reside in the Federation's territory. I have only visited Amarr Prime one a few occasions, and most of those were social in nature. As for my few brief stints in Matari space, they simply exhausted my dock crew, it took them weeks to get the corrosion off my Cerberus, and now I only visit there when I have to. To suggest that I have absolute power is foolishness. I depend on my slaves to be there, almost as much as they depend on me to watch over them and provide for them. If I had to wager, I'd guess the term symbiosis is lost to a cretin such as yourself... Originally by:** Kathryn Dougans I would trust Maalan to take care of people. Maalan does seem to be a good employer, and a practical business woman. However, these particular people seem to be more interested in returning to a life of safe servitude. Were they looking to pursue a free life under employ, I would agree that Maalan would be a great place to start.
Veron Daerth Amarr Blood Meridian	Posted - 2008.07.16 19:43:00 - [47] Pilot Subaka, while I respect that Pilot AsheRaven has his views, I have found that arguing with him to be a rather tedious exercise in circular logic. Ergo, "They MUST be free to choose for themselves, but if they choose slavery, they MUST be freed to choose....again.... preferably something more to the liking of the majority of us freedmen and women." Truly, the thing that I think frightens all these fools that prattle on about "freedom" and "choice" is that if truly given the chance to choose and be free, many would freely choose to not be free. This, of course, would put the "freedom fighters" out of business, and they would have to go find something else to howl and moan about. That said, there ARE many people that would "freely choose" another life, perhaps one without the Master/Slave dichotomy that exists as it is now. I cannot help them, though, only try to change things for the better for their descendants. I also readily agree with you on the matter of reciprocity of loyalty and care to the slaves. Being a Master is no different than being a CEO, a Senator, or a Tribal Chieftain. You (as the leader) are responsible for those under you, be they employees, voters, or tribesmen. I make great efforts to ensure the good care and conditions of my slaves. (Yes, there is a lot of info there, but its a bit complicated, the system my House has with slaves.) I will also FREELY ADMIT, FEW IN THE EMPIRE TAKE SUCH PAINS, but I cannot help that either. Perhaps in time, things will be different, but that is for the future. At any rate, Pilot AsheRaven, please remember that "freedom" is simply the freedom to starve. However much you dislike this sentiment, it is nonetheless, true. Each of us is constrained by rules and regulations in our daily lives. There are customs and traditions and laws and propriety and all the limits on what we may and may not do. I admit that the "cons" of slavery are there, but so are the "pros". There are many who would give up a life of "freedom" in the Federation or the State or even the Republic (or whatever you end up calling it) in exchange for the guarantee of equitable care and employment. It is also perhaps sad that the care that is available is so... inequitable, for the most part. But, alas, I only do what I can. God bless and guide you all, Pilots.
AsheRaven Minmatar The Stormcrow Milita	Posted - 2008.07.16 19:51:00 - [48] Originally by: Inara Subaka Then could you explain the current populace of Gallente, Caldari, and Amarrians that are currently under my control? Most (if not all) of these people started out as free men and women, that when times became tough sought out an honorable slave owner. Say what? Thats a new one ((Just a point, but how can one aurgue against something that cannot be backed up. Not trying to be difficult but we both know the actual likeyhood of your claim is very slim indeed, unless they were slaves to begin with)) ---------------------------------
AsheRaven Minmatar The Stormcrow Milita	Posted - 2008.07.16 19:52:00 - [49] Edited by: AsheRaven on 16/07/2008 19:53:18 Originally by: Veron Daerth Truly, the thing that I think frightens all these fools that prattle on about "freedom" and "choice" is that if truly given the chance to choose and be free, many would freely choose to not be free. This, of course, would put the "freedom fighters" out of business, and they would have to go find something else to howl and moan about. If that is your philsophy then the master was poor teacher on freedom, wouldn't you agree? I was a slave once, and I do not starve, in fact I find myself partucarly wealthy. You'll find the same with most of the "slave Child" pilots these days. Just a small point. Asa for going out of business, that woould be a good day indeed, think about that ---------------------------------
Veron Daerth Amarr Blood Meridian	Posted - 2008.07.16 20:26:00 - [50] Pilot AsheRaven. I am not teaching my slaves about freedom by telling them they are free and than they must remain free at all costs. Nor am I telling them that they were freed and must now serve me and my cause if they wish to not continue being free. Something you seem not to grasp is that "freedom" is an illusion. Dont believe me? Go try to walk into a session of the Federation's Senate and espouse your views on any topic to the Senator there. Try to argue with any topic you dont like. Then argue with the guards that toss you out the door on your ass. Try to hold a public rite of the Sani Sabik faith in an open station. See how far your precious "religious freedoms" get you when you try to drain the blood out of passersby for that ritual. All I am saying is that there are rules. There are always rules. Some people LIKE knowing that they dont have to worry about where their next meal is coming from, they LIKE knowing that they dont have to make decisions concerning what they are going to do for work, or a home or schooling. It is a form of mental security. Some people are most comfortable with a net of rules and regulations that defines what you can and cannot do. Thats slavery in a nutshell. Someone else tells you what to do and where and when. Thats slavery. Forget all that crap about good and bad masters, and good and bad slaves. Thats window dressing, and you and every "freeman" takes the same chance of getting a "bad boss" or a "corrupt Senator" or whatnot when it comes to the people in power over you. And before you say it, yes I am aware that the employee and voter can rectify that, whereas a slave cant do so so easily. I never said it was perfect. Now, as to "Slave children being wealthy." I applaud you for succeeding. I pray and give thanks to God that one person at least has made something of themselves after being freed. Many more than you do not. Many are processed into a machine that the Republic calls "re-education" and then are sent off with minimal skills and almost no way to make their way in Matari society. Most slaves today are of mixed stock. Some have no idea of their ancestry. They have no Tribe to turn to, and no-one to aid them save for the occasional handout from the various charities. They make their way as they can, often in degrading and unstable working conditions. The Republic has a huge unemployment rate, and its economy is shot. Matari immigrants flock to the Federation to find work and send money back home to the Republic to support their families as best they can. What is a slave with no Tribe or family to do? I can tell you. If your female and good looking, there is always work, but not of the particularly "reputable" kind. If your male and strong, there is always the various criminal organizations and outright piracy to turn to. All slaves that are freed do not fall into this cycle of abuse and despair, no. But a great many do. Those "freedmen" that do would often rather return to life on the estates where they may have done equally terrible or laborious things. But they at least could tell themselves that they didnt have a choice about it. That the Master made them do it. The "freed" slave working for the Cartel to feed himself and his family has no such comfort, after all, he "chose" to be where he is... didnt he? Think about that, Pilot. ((OOC: AsheRaven, many different races are enslaved by the Amarr and others. It is not inconceivable that many "freed slaves" would seek the stability and comfort of a situation they "know" over a situation they dont, namely a society they arent comfortable with any more. There are several psychological papers on it, but it explains why abused children/spouses often try to "excuse" or defend the abusive parent/spouse. It also can be attributable to the infamous "Stockholm Syndrome", where kidnapping victims come to sympathize and even care for their kidnappers/abusers. The mind is a funny thing.))

Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.07.16 20:30:00 - [51] Originally by: AsheRaven Originally by: Inara Subaka Then could you explain the current populace of Gallente, Caldari, and Amarrians that are currently under my control? Most (if not all) of these people started out as free men and women, that when times became tough sought out an honorable slave owner. Say what? Thats a new one ((Just a point, but how can one aurgue against something that cannot be backed up. Not trying to be difficult but we both know the actual likeyhood of your claim is very slim indeed, unless they were slaves to begin with)) Agreed, it is difficult to verify these claims without they themselves taking the time to enter these conversations (unfortunately these channels are only available to Pod Pilots). However, if you would note that I have mentioned different races serving different needs in the past (link for your viewing pleasure, there are several examples in this thread). And some of them were slaves when I acquired them, but through discussion (and information provided to me by my trusted foremen) I know of their previous lives. Some were born into slavery, some became slaves out of necessity, and others were originally forced into slavery because of some debt they owed and have decided they prefer the security a life of servitude provides them and theirs (a small minority have paid off their debts to me, yet have asked to remain in my service). I see nothing wrong with any of these situations, and am curious why you are so strongly opposed to these simple workings that have worked for centuries? Originally by: AsheRaven I was a slave once, and I do not starve, in fact I find myself partucarly wealthy. You'll find the same with most of the "slave Child" pilots these days. Just a small point. Asa for going out of business, that woould be a good day indeed, think about that You were one of the lucky few that had the opportunity to become a Pilot, there are millions who, once "liberated", are forced to live in refugee camps trying to scrounge together a living. Many of which die due to the finances of the "Great Clan" being directed towards liberating more people to stick in those same refugee camps. (I will admit that these refugee camps are fewer due to the intervention of the Federation, but they still exist). And yes, it would be a good day indeed to see your kind go out of business... allowing me to carry on with mine, without having to worry about my slaves fighting you off while I'm running errands. May you fly safe until your hull reaches my sights... (I am a pirate after all)
AsheRaven Minmatar The Stormcrow Milita	Posted - 2008.07.16 20:35:00 - [52] Originally by: Inara Subaka You were one of the lucky few that had the opportunity to become a Pilot, there are millions who, once "liberated", are forced to live in refugee camps trying to scrounge together a living. Many of which die due to the finances of the "Great Clan" being directed towards liberating more people to stick in those same refugee camps. (I will admit that these refugee camps are fewer due to the intervention of the Federation, but they still exist). And yes, it would be a good day indeed to see your kind go out of business... allowing me to carry on with mine, without having to worry about my slaves fighting you off while I'm running errands. May you fly safe until your hull reaches my sights... (I am a pirate after all) I was more than just lucky, I scrounged and fought until my Mentor, Corin, found me. I learned all to well form him that to free aman was moran just to give him food and shelter. It was to show him opportunity and the heart to take it. Many of our fleets fail on this, nutring, "rededucating" them. To the Old Clan Raven and the Blood Cllan Raven, there is but one teacher. Opportunity doesn't make the man, it's taking it, and one cannot learn to take it ignorance. I can say this, as my clan are largely made up slaves or the decendents of slaves, we have mastered this skill of reducation extreamly well. Men are not men until they learn to live. ---------------------------------
Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.07.16 20:44:00 - [53] Originally by: AsheRaven I was more than just lucky, I scrounged and fought until my Mentor, Corin, found me. I learned all to well form him that to free aman was moran just to give him food and shelter. It was to show him opportunity and the heart to take it. Many of our fleets fail on this, nutring, "rededucating" them. To the Old Clan Raven and the Blood Cllan Raven, there is but one teacher. Opportunity doesn't make the man, it's taking it, and one cannot learn to take it ignorance. I can say this, as my clan are largely made up slaves or the decendents of slaves, we have mastered this skill of reducation extreamly well. Men are not men until they learn to live. Forgive me, but I about missed the control laughing at this point. Your "reeducation" sounds a lot like brain washing... just saying. If you and your clan are former slaves that wished for freedom, congratulations. I hope you earned it and didn't take the easy way out and spill blood; I hope you were a man and earn your right to call yourself free. As I have already stated, there are a few that when they no longer owe anything to me have full intentions of becoming Pilots. It saddens me that they will be leaving my service, as some of them hold positions that are difficult to fill, but they will have earned the right to choose freedom. There's an old axiom that comes to mind, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force them to drink". It would do you well to remember that in your crusade.
AsheRaven Minmatar The Stormcrow Milita	Posted - 2008.07.16 21:04:00 - [54] Originally by: Inara Subaka Originally by: AsheRaven I was more than just lucky, I scrounged and fought until my Mentor, Corin, found me. I learned all to well form him that to free aman was moran just to give him food and shelter. It was to show him opportunity and the heart to take it. Many of our fleets fail on this, nutring, "rededucating" them. To the Old Clan Raven and the Blood Cllan Raven, there is but one teacher. Opportunity doesn't make the man, it's taking it, and one cannot learn to take it ignorance. I can say this, as my clan are largely made up slaves or the decendents of slaves, we have mastered this skill of reducation extreamly well. Men are not men until they learn to live. Forgive me, but I about missed the control laughing at this point. Your "reeducation" sounds a lot like brain washing... just saying. If you and your clan are former slaves that wished for freedom, congratulations. I hope you earned it and didn't take the easy way out and spill blood; I hope you were a man and earn your right to call yourself free. As I have already stated, there are a few that when they no longer owe anything to me have full intentions of becoming Pilots. It saddens me that they will be leaving my service, as some of them hold positions that are difficult to fill, but they will have earned the right to choose freedom. There's an old axiom that comes to mind, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force them to drink". It would do you well to remember that in your crusade. Wow, frst I am telling them to go to arms, implied by a sentence as yet to be revealed by you, and second of all I am brain washing them by telling them... well.. to think for themselves... I find you're logic most... illogical. How do you explain the Slave Child mentalirty... oh don't tell me, we were brain washed from the light... yes of course... ---------------------------------
Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.07.16 21:35:00 - [55] Originally by: AsheRaven Wow, frst I am telling them to go to arms, implied by a sentence as yet to be revealed by you, and second of all I am brain washing them by telling them... well.. to think for themselves... I find you're logic most... illogical. How do you explain the Slave Child mentalirty... oh don't tell me, we were brain washed from the light... yes of course... An exasperated chuckle is heard as Inara's shaking head appears on the screen No, no, you misunderstood that statement, I do not believe you are brainwashing. Perhaps I should expound on my thoughts... I was simply stating that it would appear to a casual observer that you are brainwashing, when in fact it is no more brainwashing than the religious enlightenment followers of the Amarrian faith provide (you can take that as you will). My logic is quite sound, but I'm not sure what "mentalirty" means. Assuming you are referring to the Slave Child Mentality, those that wished to be free while they were under bond... no, you were not brainwashed. However, even you must agree that not all people think the same way. Even those amongst the Matari have disagreements and infighting because of differing opinions. And I apologize for overlooking your first remark here, I did not say that you would be forcing them to take up arms, but as many that fly under the same "moral banner" as yourself have stated: Even those that don't take up arms but simply support the system are to be held responcible for the system they are in (they were speaking of non-slave owning Amarrians that still support the Empire). If this logic is to be accepted, then those that don't take up arms, yet support the Clan are to be held responsible, at least in part, for the actions of the Clan (including ripping people from their homes by force of arms). I encourage my slaves to think for themselves, it allows me to work on the larger issues without having to micromanage. I have foremen (simply slaves that have shown great loyalty and dedication over the years) that I trust implicitly, and there isn't a slave amongst mine that fears speaking their mind. Obviously there is a time and place to present these concerns to me, and most know well enough that when I'm entertaining company they should hold their tongue. The freedom to think for themselves is something that no one can take away, and one would be foolish to attempt to. Why is it you fear an honest slaver? Do you have family or friends still in bonds? If that is the case, why not attempt to buy them out of slavery, you yourself have claimed to have become quite profitable. And what will you do if they request, directly to you, that you allow them to live their lives the way they see fit, and make the choice to stay with their current owner? If you are unable to buy their freedom, or earn it in some fashion, are you going to spill blood to free them (whether against their will or not)? If your answer to that last question is yes, you are more barbaric than I gave you credit for.
AsheRaven Minmatar The Stormcrow Milita	Posted - 2008.07.16 22:08:00 - [56] Originally by: Inara Subaka Originally by: AsheRaven Wow, frst I am telling them to go to arms, implied by a sentence as yet to be revealed by you, and second of all I am brain washing them by telling them... well.. to think for themselves... I find you're logic most... illogical. How do you explain the Slave Child mentalirty... oh don't tell me, we were brain washed from the light... yes of course... An exasperated chuckle is heard as Inara's shaking head appears on the screen No, no, you misunderstood that statement, I do not believe you are brainwashing. Perhaps I should expound on my thoughts... I was simply stating that it would appear to a casual observer that you are brainwashing, when in fact it is no more brainwashing than the religious enlightenment followers of the Amarrian faith provide (you can take that as you will). My logic is quite sound, but I'm not sure what "mentalirty" means. Assuming you are referring to the Slave Child Mentality, those that wished to be free while they were under bond... no, you were not brainwashed. However, even you must agree that not all people think the same way. Even those amongst the Matari have disagreements and infighting because of differing opinions. And I apologize for overlooking your first remark here, I did not say that you would be forcing them to take up arms, but as many that fly under the same "moral banner" as yourself have stated: Even those that don't take up arms but simply support the system are to be held responcible for the system they are in (they were speaking of non-slave owning Amarrians that still support the Empire). If this logic is to be accepted, then those that don't take up arms, yet support the Clan are to be held responsible, at least in part, for the actions of the Clan (including ripping people from their homes by force of arms). I encourage my slaves to think for themselves, it allows me to work on the larger issues without having to micromanage. I have foremen (simply slaves that have shown great loyalty and dedication over the years) that I trust implicitly, and there isn't a slave amongst mine that fears speaking their mind. Obviously there is a time and place to present these concerns to me, and most know well enough that when I'm entertaining company they should hold their tongue. The freedom to think for themselves is something that no one can take away, and one would be foolish to attempt to. Why is it you fear an honest slaver? Do you have family or friends still in bonds? If that is the case, why not attempt to buy them out of slavery, you yourself have claimed to have become quite profitable. And what will you do if they request, directly to you, that you allow them to live their lives the way they see fit, and make the choice to stay with their current owner? If you are unable to buy their freedom, or earn it in some fashion, are you going to spill blood to free them (whether against their will or not)? If your answer to that last question is yes, you are more barbaric than I gave you credit for. You encourage them to be ccreative, that doesn't equate to being free to think ---------------------------------
Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.07.17 17:02:00 - [57] Originally by: AsheRaven You encourage them to be ccreative, that doesn't equate to being free to think It doesn't? And I hate to repeat myself, so let me replay a portion of my last recording... Originally by: Inara Subaka Why is it you fear an honest slaver? Do you have family or friends still in bonds? If that is the case, why not attempt to buy them out of slavery, you yourself have claimed to have become quite profitable. And what will you do if they request, directly to you, that you allow them to live their lives the way they see fit, and make the choice to stay with their current owner? If you are unable to buy their freedom, or earn it in some fashion, are you going to spill blood to free them (whether against their will or not)? Please, don't be shy.
Hero Crane Bilge Rats of Tortuga	Posted - 2008.07.17 17:30:00 - [58] Edited by: Hero Crane on 17/07/2008 17:31:27 Originally by: Inara Subaka ...Why is it you fear an honest slaver?... I'm sorry but wtf is an honest slaver? Is there some sort of committee that goes around handing out that title: 'Ladies and Gentleman, that man may have slaves but BOY is he honest. Let's give him a hand.' Thunderous Applause But in all seriousness, could someone, please, send me a list of guidelines that show what makes an honest slaver? Help me fight my own ignorance on this matter. WHO'S...YOUR...HERO!!!
Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.07.17 17:58:00 - [59] comm activates and appears to be moving down a hallway Originally by: Hero Crane Edited by: Hero Crane on 17/07/2008 17:31:27 Originally by: Inara Subaka ...Why is it you fear an honest slaver?... I'm sorry but wtf is an honest slaver? Is there some sort of committee that goes around handing out that title: 'Ladies and Gentleman, that man may have slaves but BOY is he honest. Let's give him a hand.' Thunderous Applause But in all seriousness, could someone, please, send me a list of guidelines that show what makes an honest slaver? Help me fight my own ignorance on this matter. Mr. Crane, pleasure to see you again. As you can see I'm in a bit of a hurry, but I'll make this short and sweet. You want to see an honest slaver?.. Well, you've just seen one. If you want to see another, go look at Archbishop, he's quite the gentleman (a bit uptight for my tastes, but that is irrelevant). I'm sure there are many others (more than likely the majority of them) in the Amarr Empire that would also qualify as honest slavers. No there are no committee's, that would be a waste of resources and sounds like something the Gallente would do rolls eyes and mutters about being bureaucrats. looks up at something past her mobile comm Well, it looks like I'm out of time.
AsheRaven Minmatar The Stormcrow Milita	Posted - 2008.07.17 18:01:00 - [60] Originally by: Inara Subaka Originally by: AsheRaven You encourage them to be ccreative, that doesn't equate to being free to think It doesn't? And I hate to repeat myself, so let me replay a portion of my last recording... Originally by: Inara Subaka Why is it you fear an honest slaver? Do you have family or friends still in bonds? If that is the case, why not attempt to buy them out of slavery, you yourself have claimed to have become quite profitable. And what will you do if they request, directly to you, that you allow them to live their lives the way they see fit, and make the choice to stay with their current owner? If you are unable to buy their freedom, or earn it in some fashion, are you going to spill blood to free them (whether against their will or not)? Please, don't be shy. I'll make it clearer then, so even your Amarian brain can understand it. Being taught to be creative at tyour job is not the same is being taught to think for yourself and choose for yourself. Please continue with the circular logic, it only goes to define who and what you really are. Without an excuse ---------------------------------

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