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To the Amarr in service of Ushra'Khan.

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Author	Topic
BloodBird Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.07.12 15:57:00 - [1] I recently had an argument with Telemicus Thrace, of the Ushra'Khan. A long and somewhat annoying argument aside, I did ask him at one point, what his Ex-imperialist companions in UNITY felt about a few feelings he has made apparent. This will take you to the section of the forum where our discussion took place and it can be read in full. My question then, is aimed towards any Amarrian members of UNITY. I wonder what you think about this, and why you fly with the Ushra'Khan. Apparently you have your reasons, as all do, but I would like to know them, if you would like to share. For the record, I am not loyal, in any shape or form, to the Empire. I serve the Federation, I fight the Caldari out of need, however I hold sympaties towards the plight of the Matari and would see their kindred liberated. I disagree however, on the metods of some, and argue against the use of these. Sig source
Madrosynth Synthesis Deep Salvage	Posted - 2008.07.12 20:04:00 - [2] Edited by: Madrosynth on 12/07/2008 20:04:19 Originally by: BloodBird I recently had an argument with Telemicus Thrace, of the Ushra'Khan. A long and somewhat annoying argument aside, I did ask him at one point, what his Ex-imperialist companions in UNITY felt about a few feelings he has made apparent. This will take you to the section of the forum where our discussion took place and it can be read in full. My question then, is aimed towards any Amarrian members of UNITY. I wonder what you think about this, and why you fly with the Ushra'Khan. Apparently you have your reasons, as all do, but I would like to know them, if you would like to share. For the record, I am not loyal, in any shape or form, to the Empire. I serve the Federation, I fight the Caldari out of need, however I hold sympaties towards the plight of the Matari and would see their kindred liberated. I disagree however, on the metods of some, and argue against the use of these. You seem to be shocked by Thrace's genocidal position. What did you expect from a loincloth wearing, bone-through-the-nose savage who collects skulls and scribbles on them while chanting to the gods of "hatred and vengeance"? You thought someone as insane and backwards as him would show quarter to children? [SDEEP]
Scagga Laebetrovo Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.07.12 20:22:00 - [3] His words are thus as profound as his repugnant tattoos. San Matari Official forums
BloodBird Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.07.12 20:23:00 - [4] I guess I just expected someone that cares for his cause to not **** in every possible ally's moral-backyard. Also, I guess I did expect him to not want to sink to the level of some slavers I could mention... But I was asking for the oppinions of any Amarr in service to UNITY. I guess I can extend that to the Electus Matari as well, and any other pro-Matari faction. Sig source
Veron Daerth Amarr Blood Meridian	Posted - 2008.07.12 23:30:00 - [5] I am not sure if I count as a member of an Anti-Amarrian corp or faction, Pilot Bloodbird, but I do not support the current system of enslavement that exists in the Empire. As you know, I hold quite a few slaves and am working to have them one day gain the equality and freedoms of an Imperial Citizen (or to send them somewhere else if they so wish), but that day is now a long way off. The current war has also increased the foothold that the religious zealots and fanatics have in Imperial politics. This is of great concern to me because they, I feel, pose the greatest threat to the Empire. Unfortunately, they are succeeding in shouting down and intimidating those of us that would see changes brought to Amarr. Alas that I do not see any immediate solution to this problem. God grant you strength and wisdom.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.13 00:24:00 - [6] Edited by: Telemicus Thrace on 13/07/2008 00:25:57 Wow, my own hate thread. Now all I need is a Scope 60 Minute Special. Originally by: BloodBird I guess I just expected someone that cares for his cause to not **** in every possible ally's moral-backyard. It's called freedom. Grak has his views, I have mine. The Old Republic talked of peace with the Amarr for years, ask all the slaves that died in Amarrian chains that century what good it did them. The Slavers show no quarter to women and children, nor do I. They have the means to cease this war. Release our people. It’s that simple. Where was all this moral concern before the war when the Amarr Empire was mudering and enslaving my people en masse? Why call into question my methods and not the genocide commited by the Empire? Your entire argument is biased and has become nothing more than an inflammatory personal attack. Now if you will excuse me, I have an enemy to actually fight. Join Kinda'Shujaa
Madrosynth Synthesis Deep Salvage	Posted - 2008.07.13 03:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace The Slavers show no quarter to women and children, nor do I. We come for our people! Oh, and we come to murder your children as well! Fly on the wings of freedom! [SDEEP]
Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.	Posted - 2008.07.13 03:34:00 - [8] Originally by: Madrosynth Originally by: Telemicus Thrace The Slavers show no quarter to women and children, nor do I. We come for our people! Oh, and we come to murder your children as well! Fly on the wings of freedom! I cannot quite tell. Is that sarcasm, or a delcration that you really do wish to murder our children? ________________________________ This is not a signature.
Madrosynth Synthesis Deep Salvage	Posted - 2008.07.13 03:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Garion Avarr Originally by: Madrosynth Originally by: Telemicus Thrace The Slavers show no quarter to women and children, nor do I. We come for our people! Oh, and we come to murder your children as well! Fly on the wings of freedom! I cannot quite tell. Is that sarcasm, or a delcration that you really do wish to murder our children? Madrosynth stares blankly into the screen [SDEEP]
Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.	Posted - 2008.07.13 05:16:00 - [10] Edited by: Garion Avarr on 13/07/2008 05:18:52 Nevermind, of course it was sarcasm. It seems I misidentified who you were at first, I have been overworked lately and am in dire need of rest. My appologies. ________________________________ This is not a signature.

Corelous Alterrian Amarr Kingdom of Kador Kingdom of Redemption	Posted - 2008.07.13 05:28:00 - [11] U'K doesn't fight they hide, They don't take a stand they run. All smack and no attack.
Micia Minmatar Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.13 07:48:00 - [12] Edited by: Micia on 13/07/2008 07:48:47 Originally by: Corelous Alterrian U'K doesn't fight they hide, They don't take a stand they run. All smack and no attack. After Kingdom of Redemption surrendered... what was your point?
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.07.13 08:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Edited by: Telemicus Thrace on 13/07/2008 00:25:57 Wow, my own hate thread. Now all I need is a Scope 60 Minute Special. jusy means you are famouse. Originally by: Telemicus Thrace ask all the slaves that died in Amarrian chains that century what good it did them. depends entirely if God exists. If He does, then their lives gained them access to God's Grace. Indeed if God exists then all those who died and did not have a chance at Salvation are the unfortunate ones. you think in such mortal terms Telemicus. What is life but a short blink of suffering in the journey of the soul towards salvation? You think you way, the Amarr think theirs. It matters little because all those who walk on either side of the line end up just a dead.
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.07.13 08:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Micia Edited by: Micia on 13/07/2008 07:48:47 Originally by: Corelous Alterrian U'K doesn't fight they hide, They don't take a stand they run. All smack and no attack. After Kingdom of Redemption surrendered... what was your point? I think he was being sarcastic? UK is a nasty and dangerous enemy who fights and dies by the hauler load. perhaps some UK were smacking and this was a reminder that such commentary is for the young?
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.13 10:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Corelous Alterrian U'K doesn't fight they hide, They don't take a stand they run. All smack and no attack. You pathetic animal. Twice we have been at war with you, twice we have crushed you while your leader flees to the far side of the cluster. Please, declare war again, we will make it mutual again. Then we can crush you, again. I'll leave my guns to do the debating. It is impossible to debate with morons and liars. Join Kinda'Shujaa
Belatu Cadro Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.07.13 12:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Corelous Alterrian U'K doesn't fight they hide, They don't take a stand they run. All smack and no attack. As much as I prefer to not engage in this debate, you comments made me laugh, ask any of UK's long term enemies, and any who have crossed them in the past and the answer will allways be the same, UK stands back for noone. We come for our people and if you stand in the way you will be destroyed.
BloodBird Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.07.13 14:50:00 - [17] This here people, is not a place where you are free to argue over your mutual enemies and conflicting ideologies, even though I kind of asked for it. This tread is not about Mr. Thrace, or the ability of Kingdom of redemtion to wage war or anything in that regard. This tread was to see what the Amarr loyal to the cause of the Matari think of the statements that Mr. Thrace and a number of other Minmatar have made regarding their desired treatment of the imperial civilian population. I'll admit it might have been a mistake to mention his name but it was him that I argued with. This is not a Thrace hate tread. Now, you wish to argue your diffrences, do it elsewhere. I await statements from Mimatar loyal Amarr, though it seem the likelyhood of those people responding here are slim. Very slim... Sig source
Aria Jenneth Caldari Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.07.13 15:47:00 - [18] Hm. Well, knowing Mirrorgod, I somehow doubt he minds. Did you notice his actions during, or rather, "against" the recent race? Not that I'm really one to talk, of course. Still, there are clearly a few non-Demented Amarr among the Minmatar ranks, and I'd be interested to see how deep their sympathy for the Minmatar runs. Really, I don't think they need to take comments like those by Mr. Thrace all that seriously unless and until 1) the Minmatar regular forces start making similar noises or 2) Ushra'Khan declares that it's going to be proceeding with the genocide regardless of official policy. ... Just a thought. Ghost Festival is recruiting!
Father Goose Amarr Order of the Lamp	Posted - 2008.07.13 17:08:00 - [19] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Still, there are clearly a few non-Demented Amarr among the Minmatar ranks, and I'd be interested to see how deep their sympathy for the Minmatar runs. I don't believe I have sympathy for the Minmatar. Sympathy I save for the downtrodden, the weak, the blind, the defenseless. Respect. Admiration. Appreciation. Affection. Hope. Love. What I see the Minmatar do, earns them these things from me. Serving the Spiritual needs of the Matari, and all Children of Eve, by the Grace of God
Aria Jenneth Caldari Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.07.13 17:47:00 - [20] Hm. The connotation sensor on the translator must be broken. Sympathy, noun. Harmony of or agreement in feeling, as between persons or on the part of one person with respect to another. That's the first possible meaning. I have to go down to definition four to reach the version you're using, Father Goose, and even then it's an "especially" definition, as in "especially in sorrow or trouble," etc. So ... well, maybe the translation's got a stronger "thrust" to it in Amarrian. No matter. So, Father Goose, accepting this all to be true, what reaction do you then have when the people you respect, admire, appreciate, hope for, and love start talking about, for instance, skewering your family? Well-- not that, really. More like "the families of everybody you knew as a child," assuming you grew up in the Empire? Leaving out any slaves, of course. Ghost Festival is recruiting!

Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services	Posted - 2008.07.13 19:38:00 - [21] To paraphrase what Telemicus said in the post you mentioned: * Supporters of slavery will not be tolerated. They will be shot, and exceptions will not be made based on gender, age, etc. "As far as I am concerned support of the Amarr Empire makes you a valid target of war. Civilians keeping slaves or Imperial Navy with slave crews, they are both enemy." * Amarrians who reject slavery are not targets, and can be friends, even though their slaver brethren are our enemies. We care not for race, so much as the choice to embrace slavery. "The ethnic Amarrians & Ni Kunni in the Ushra'Khan are as much Ushra'Khan as me. You may be suprised to learn they do not serve the Amarr Empire. You need to seperate politics from genetics." * If the Empire chooses to end slavery, we can embrace peace with them "The Empire has the option to release our people and enjoy an age of peace." He never claimed to support genocide, he has repeatedly stated our policy of choosing targets based on a choice made to suuport slavery. This choice is independent of race or any other factors, though the fact is that due to the state religion of the Empire, in practice Amarrian is often synonomous with slaver. He has also said that should a slaver reform and reject slavery, they will no longer be a target. Only slavers and their supporters talk of geneocide, which is ironic, considering their beliefs, which call them to conquer and kill or enslave all non-Amarrians, and to destroy the cultures of those who survive their brutality and replace it with their own: "I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13, The Scriptures "There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe" -Book of Reclaiming, 25:10 Quit being an Imperial tool. Listen to the truth, not what the your nominal enemies, the Imperials, claim. -- Becq Starforged The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Scagga Laebetrovo Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.07.13 22:32:00 - [22] Originally by: Becq Starforged To paraphrase what Telemicus said in the post you mentioned: * Supporters of slavery will not be tolerated. They will be shot, and exceptions will not be made based on gender, age, etc. "As far as I am concerned support of the Amarr Empire makes you a valid target of war. Civilians keeping slaves or Imperial Navy with slave crews, they are both enemy." * Amarrians who reject slavery are not targets, and can be friends, even though their slaver brethren are our enemies. We care not for race, so much as the choice to embrace slavery. "The ethnic Amarrians & Ni Kunni in the Ushra'Khan are as much Ushra'Khan as me. You may be suprised to learn they do not serve the Amarr Empire. You need to seperate politics from genetics." * If the Empire chooses to end slavery, we can embrace peace with them "The Empire has the option to release our people and enjoy an age of peace." He never claimed to support genocide, he has repeatedly stated our policy of choosing targets based on a choice made to suuport slavery. This choice is independent of race or any other factors, though the fact is that due to the state religion of the Empire, in practice Amarrian is often synonomous with slaver. He has also said that should a slaver reform and reject slavery, they will no longer be a target. Only slavers and their supporters talk of geneocide, which is ironic, considering their beliefs, which call them to conquer and kill or enslave all non-Amarrians, and to destroy the cultures of those who survive their brutality and replace it with their own: "I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13, The Scriptures "There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe" -Book of Reclaiming, 25:10 Quit being an Imperial tool. Listen to the truth, not what the your nominal enemies, the Imperials, claim. Misrepresenting truth is a form of lying, Mr Starforged. I thought you'd be above that, well I'd be lying if I meant that. San Matari Official forums
BloodBird Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.07.15 23:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Becq Starforged Quit being an Imperial tool. Listen to the truth, not what the your nominal enemies, the Imperials, claim. So what is the truth then? I'm no imperial tool, I'm just relatively ignorant about your methods and don't like the ideas brough about by Mr. Thrace. Let me ask you some questions, and I'd like you to answer them truthfully. First... If a man in the empire visits an estate owned and operated by a slaver, and you landed to free those slaves that day, would you kill the visitor and/or the Amarr that work in handling the slaves, even if they present no threat to you in the act of freeing the people in chains? I am not including slave-drivers or guards in this, but perhaps, employeed cooks, gardeners, and the likes of Amarrian origin, that serve the slave-owner out of service, being paid to do thier job? Would you, upon arriving in a major Amarrian town on any imperial planet kill random people in the streets as you rush for the slave-pens? Again, I am not including any defenders of the city or guards of the slave-pens in this, they would most assurantly try to stop you (unless they try and flee) so you would have to kill them anyways. Let's say you conquered a planet from the Amarr (a possible scenario given the TLF's victories thus far in low-sec) and land to swep it of slaves. By this time any plant-side resistance would be obvious targets, I will not get into that. However, your average person on this planet appears to be your run of the mill free Amarrian civilian going about their lives, and just now hiding in their homes. Naturally you search each house looking for any possible house-slaves, for those with enough money to afford such a thing. How would you treat any families you found owning a slave? How would you treat all the others who don't own any? You see Mr. Starforged, the thing is, I have no qualms about you freeing your people by any needed means. I'm merely afraid you will not leave many living things behind while doing this needed job. I'm sure even you would not waste ammo on anything that's not an all-out threat regardless of what the hard-liners in the Empire say about you, so I want to make sure. I'd love to aid you in any means needed to reach your goals. I just ain't sure what those mean exactly, or how you desire to go about reaching them. I've explained in more detail Here. Again, I wonder what any Amarrian freedom Fighters think of all this. Come on, I know you can read this summit and I know you exist. Sig source
Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.07.16 04:34:00 - [24] If I may add to BloodBird's line of questions... I am curious to know, what about those slaves that don't want to be freed? Are you going to force them to leave what they know as home, kill those that may have provided for many generations of their family, and destroy all they knew as a good life? As a slave owner myself, that has no ties to the Empire, the State, the Federation, or the Matari, I would like to know if you are making those like myself "war targets" in your crusade. with sarcasm almost visibly dripping off her words she adds And it would be unwise to destroy my ships, for you would be killing the very slaves you claim you wish to free. They seem more bloodthirsty than starved swine.
Karn Mithralia Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.17 08:43:00 - [25] War target? Probaly not, I suspect you wouldn't be worth the isk. However as a self-admitted 'slave owner' you'll be marked KOS. -----------------------------------------
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.17 16:14:00 - [26] Originally by: BloodBird My question then, is aimed towards any Amarrian members of UNITY. I wonder what you think about this, and why you fly with the Ushra'Khan. Apparently you have your reasons, as all do, but I would like to know them, if you would like to share. Most of these traitors wil likely spout some rhetoric about freedom and such. Mostly they simply desire to fly around in their spaceships and fire upon others without being hindered by the multitude of restrictions, rules and regulations Amarr society bestows upon them. Perhaps they will cal it 'the freedom to engage anyone anywhere in any ship if I want to', I simply call it bloodlust. As you can probably deduce, people joining them for bloodlust won't particularly concerned with a few threats of genocide by their fellows. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.17 16:26:00 - [27] Originally by: BloodBird Would you, upon arriving in a major Amarrian town on any imperial planet kill random people in the streets as you rush for the slave-pens? Perhaps you should read up about the policy the Ushra Khan followed after being driven from Providence. In short, they thought it would be grand idea to condemn those that did not activitely fought slavery to be supporters of slavery and thus open to attack. Some mention of things like 'supporting CVA by trading with them' were made. I do not know if mr. Thrace will actually shoot anyone in the streets of some random Amarrian city, perhaps there is still some humanity in him left, but I have no doubt he will certainly reserve the right to shoot anyone and everyone if it suits him. After all, he is a free man, and a free man should be free to shoot everything he wants to, right? Killing people for freedom and all that. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.07.18 08:52:00 - [28] It has been over a year now since the fall of Unity Station to the CVA and their numerous allies. Unsurprisingly almost a full solar day since it has been brought up again by the Amarr. Since this policy is still technically in effect I will reproduce the original statement here. It would be unfair to expect the average pilot to remember, so few are stuck quite as firmly in the past as PIE. Quote: This is the voice of the Ushra’Khan. Our campaign continues, Providence burns. This haven of evil is infested with slavers and those who continue to trade with them. If you do business in Providence or Catch you are an enemy of Freedom and considered a target of war. Leave Providence now if you wish to survive. Those who profit from the suffering of our people are our blood enemies and will be hunted down. There is no neutral ground in Providence. Identify yourselves as Warriors of Freedom or die under the fire of our guns. We fly on the wings of freedom, we come for our people. Join Kinda'Shujaa
Scagga Laebetrovo Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.07.18 08:59:00 - [29] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace It has been over a year now since the fall of Unity Station to the CVA and their numerous allies. Unsurprisingly almost a full solar day since it has been brought up again by the Amarr. What was that? I couldn't hear you over the endless bleatings of your co-illusionists about the ills they claim to have suffered under slavery whilst studying at the Pator Tech School...every day... San Matari Official forums
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2008.07.18 11:53:00 - [30] What the hell is wrong with you people? If you, in any way, support the ownership of slaves, then you are an enemy of those who wish to stamp out this practise. It's not rocket science. Yes, in every war there is collateral damage, of course there is, but simply because innocent lives are lost this does not mean that one side or the other had set out to kill the innocent. Thrace and his boys are out for blood, for revenge against those who enslave, harbor enslavers, and those who encourage the activity of slavery by continuing to do business with their 'owners' as if nothing is wrong. This is war gentlemen, not a debate. You've been given your terms of surrender. If you wish to see the end to this conflict I recommend you consider meeting them. Or do you wish to counter these terms with those of your own? I mean, you could carry on here, bleating about the loyalties of individuals, regardless of race, or you could meet with your people and ascertain some terms of your own. Seriously... some of the topics of debate in this summit are way beyond desperate and far into the reaches of panic. Jump Bridges? Shit idea.

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