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Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
113
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Posted - 2012.03.16 19:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
I really salute the guys at Team Avatar and their work on improving 'little things' on the UI.
But I don't believe it is anywhere near enough, and I think it's as effective as patching a ship up that's already sunk.
CCP are asking what we can do to encourage new players to join and to stay. Well I think one of the key factors to this would be by creating a vastly improved UI.
I like the changes to the market system, but there's SO much more that could be done to improve it. I can never understand why we need so many different pop-up windows to perform different tasks. Invention for example take a ridiculous amount of unnecessary clicking and windows to perform one single task, and you will find yourself repeating this task OVER AND OVER AGAIN!
The overview is another example of how poor the UI is. If I were a new player I would be utterly perplexed as to how to save settings for different tabs and what a bracket is meant to be. I still find it ludicrous that adding ab object to the overview will add it to every tab rather then just the one selected.
The amount of windows I can only imagine is utterly daunting to a new player, and it's not like nay of them have a simple help icon which would immediately take you to a help page to explain how to use them.
I really think CCP should really consider devoting some real resources to just starting again. The objective would be to.
1. Make a far more space efficient layout. 2. Reduce clicking substantially. 3. Reduce the amount of windows needs substantially, by making all tasks possible to complete in just one window rather then several pop-ups. 4. Make it far more intuitive. Again Invention is so laborious. 5. Improve scalability so that future expansions gel nicely with the current layout. 6. Simplify - Why does right clicking a BPC give you the option to invent, ME, or PE even though this isn't possible? 7. Make it far more informative - This doesn't have to mean more text, just make things more self-explanatory.
Another problem I have with iteration is that it's just creating work-around to fix current problems. For instance adding the view market details button was a nice idea. But it's actually still slower than me right clicking one of my orders and selecting 'Modify', then immediately right-clicking again and selecting 'View Market details'. So that was a waste of time I'm afraid. The market window should have been completely redesigned and in this instance one column should have had your orders, and the second should have the market details, and your order should be 'Highlighted' in the detail view and you should be able to modify it from the detail view. One window, instead of three!
TL:DR
Please seriously consider this CCP. I strongly believe that the UI puts off a lot of new players and probably makes quite a few old one's sick to death too. Give us a UI that belongs in the 21st century and one that this great game and great community truly deserve.
Time to-áCOMPLETELY REDESIGN THE U.I. FROM SCRATCH: - End the click fest & Multiple Window fest - Streamline and Simplify it-á - Improve scalability-á |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
19
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Posted - 2012.03.16 19:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
The UI is a sunken ship now? I agree there are some things that could do with a little less clicking, but missy... I remember a time where there even wasn't a overview. So how about a little bit of appreciation? [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif[/img]
This needs fixin' |
masternerdguy
Navy of Xoc
1
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Posted - 2012.03.16 19:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:The UI is a sunken ship now? I agree there are some things that could do with a little less clicking, but missy... I remember a time where there even wasn't a overview. So how about a little bit of appreciation?
That must have made target calling a hoot. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
19
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Posted - 2012.03.16 19:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Tobiaz wrote:The UI is a sunken ship now? I agree there are some things that could do with a little less clicking, but missy... I remember a time where there even wasn't a overview. So how about a little bit of appreciation? That must have made target calling a hoot.
Well different times, and way smaller fleets. The type of engagements null gets these days would have crashed the servers so bad, back then, it would have left a glowing crater. I don't remember when exactly but it didn't take too long before we got some sort of overview, but it was a really messy and clunky interface. Nothing so sleek and adaptable as the overview is now.
My only gripes with EVE's interface now is that's almost unplayable if you don't have a big, widescreen monitor. [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif[/img]
This needs fixin' |
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
114
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Posted - 2012.03.16 19:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:The UI is a sunken ship now? I agree there are some things that could do with a little less clicking, but missy... I remember a time where there even wasn't a overview. So how about a little bit of appreciation?
I bet you remember when all this was fields too. :P
I do have appreciation that CCP is trying to improve things, but I really do think it's a very token effort right now.
I also appreciate it's no small thing I'm asking for. But the UI makes Windows 95 look cutting edge! If Steve Jobs were alive today and he saw EVE's UI, it would kill him!
Too soon? Time to-áCOMPLETELY REDESIGN THE U.I. FROM SCRATCH: - End the click fest & Multiple Window fest - Streamline and Simplify it-á - Improve scalability-á |
Famble
Three's a Crowd
303
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Posted - 2012.03.16 20:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:The UI is a sunken ship now? I agree there are some things that could do with a little less clicking, but missy... I remember a time where there even wasn't a overview. So how about a little bit of appreciation?
Argumentum ad hominem.
OP is dead right. It needs a total overhaul. I wouldn't want to lead that team over at CCP but it doesn't change the fact that that's exactly what it needs, a complete overhaul.
If anyone ever looks at you and says, "Hold my beer, watch this,"-á you're probably going to want to pay attention. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
786
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Posted - 2012.03.16 20:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Remember this isnt wow where everyone can script down their entire ui to pressing 3 keys. |
Famble
Three's a Crowd
303
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Posted - 2012.03.16 20:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:Remember this isnt wow where everyone can script down their entire ui to pressing 3 keys.
No this is Eve where you just download a bot to do it for you in zero.
If anyone ever looks at you and says, "Hold my beer, watch this,"-á you're probably going to want to pay attention. |
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
116
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Posted - 2012.03.16 20:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:Remember this isnt wow where everyone can script down their entire ui to pressing 3 keys.
I'm not sure I understand. If this your argument for keeping a poor User Interface? Time to-áCOMPLETELY REDESIGN THE U.I. FROM SCRATCH: - End the click fest & Multiple Window fest - Streamline and Simplify it-á - Improve scalability-á |
Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
632
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Posted - 2012.03.16 21:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm pretty certain they've already designed a completely new and excellent UI scheme that would work just fine.
I'm also pretty certain they decided to tweak the current one to avoid annoying the established user base....just look at the whinging that renaming modules has caused! |
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Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
281
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Posted - 2012.03.16 22:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Solhild wrote:I'm pretty certain they've already designed a completely new and excellent UI scheme that would work just fine. I'm also pretty certain they decided to tweak the current one to avoid annoying the established user base....just look at the whinging that renaming modules has caused!
Yeah, but re-naming modules was, arguably, un-necessary--but a full UI re-vamp? Different thing entirely.
(@CCP: Give us player-selectable/customisable velocity-vectors and Inertial/probability-based target-tracking already! Huge boost to solo/small-gang PvP, right there.)
In irae, veritas. |
ivar R'dhak
STK Scientific
10
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Posted - 2012.03.16 22:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Miss Whippy wrote:Too soon? Not soon enough.
And agreed! I also remember a time when all we had were red exclamation marks to figure out what horrific acts that specific entry in the overview wanted to inflict on us.
And quite frankly the current "sleek" overview isn-¦t that much better. That thing should be just an information window instead of the main tactical tool we actually do our fighting in.
When was the last time you checked your market when you jumped into a hostile system? Opened the PI screen after warping into a mission?
We don-¦t have an UI we have an OS! But we need a space fighting UI instead of a "space OS" that only confuses the newbies with it-¦s ridiculous option overload.
After returning 2 weeks ago the first thing I did in the new NEOCOM was dumping ALL those icons into a folder. Now I-¦m retraining myself to minimize the windows I currently use instead of outright closing them.
This first baby step of an UI that adapts to your current task is the right way. Problem is, it-¦s only a band aid.
The UI has to be redesigned with being a SPACE GAME UI foremost instead of an "OS in SPACE". |
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
117
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Posted - 2012.03.16 22:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Solhild wrote:I'm pretty certain they've already designed a completely new and excellent UI scheme that would work just fine. I'm also pretty certain they decided to tweak the current one to avoid annoying the established user base....just look at the whinging that renaming modules has caused!
Is there any source for this new UI? Time to-áCOMPLETELY REDESIGN THE U.I. FROM SCRATCH: - End the click fest & Multiple Window fest - Streamline and Simplify it-á - Improve scalability-á |
iOSJake
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.03.16 22:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Miss Whippy wrote:If Steve Jobs were alive today and he saw EVE's UI, it would kill him!
Too soon? Yes |
Rixiu
PonyTek
112
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Posted - 2012.03.16 23:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Solhild wrote:I'm pretty certain they've already designed a completely new and excellent UI scheme that would work just fine. :awesome: is the word you're looking for. |
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
117
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Posted - 2012.03.17 00:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rixiu wrote:Solhild wrote:I'm pretty certain they've already designed a completely new and excellent UI scheme that would work just fine. :awesome: is the word you're looking for.
If this is true, it's excellent/awesome/over the rainbow. But is this speculation or is it on Sisi, or what? Time to-áCOMPLETELY REDESIGN THE U.I. FROM SCRATCH: - End the click fest & Multiple Window fest - Streamline and Simplify it-á - Improve scalability-á |
Menoeceus
0
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Posted - 2012.03.17 06:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Solhild wrote:I'm pretty certain they've already designed a completely new and excellent UI scheme that would work just fine. I'm also pretty certain they decided to tweak the current one to avoid annoying the established user base....just look at the whinging that renaming modules has caused!
Does anyone know this for a fact? I've seen nothing about this. |
Docter Daniel Jackson
Hendrix Angels Fabricated Confabulations
25
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Posted - 2012.03.17 07:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
This is some thing I have been talking to my friends about, they have all said this is why they cant get into eve is because the UI is too hard to get into. People are not asking to make the game easier but all we ask is that you give us the tools to play the game the way its meant to be, and not make so much crap in out faces that is not meant to be there at all.
The most smallest of things in eve could make it so much less painful to play rely, cleaning up the UI and removing things that dont not need to be there will help new and old players navigate the growing game so much more easier. |
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
121
|
Posted - 2012.03.17 16:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Docter Daniel Jackson wrote:This is some thing I have been talking to my friends about, they have all said this is why they cant get into eve is because the UI is too hard to get into. People are not asking to make the game easier but all we ask is that you give us the tools to play the game the way its meant to be, and not make so much crap in out faces that is not meant to be there at all.
The most smallest of things in eve could make it so much less painful to play rely, cleaning up the UI and removing things that dont not need to be there will help new and old players navigate the growing game so much more easier.
Case in point. I think the new UI in development is just rumor. Come on CCP, I'd love hear your thoughts on this. Time to-áCOMPLETELY REDESIGN THE U.I. FROM SCRATCH: - End the click fest & Multiple Window fest - Streamline and Simplify it-á - Improve scalability-á |
Andski
GoonWaffe
3189
|
Posted - 2012.03.17 16:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
Famble wrote:Obsidian Hawk wrote:Remember this isnt wow where everyone can script down their entire ui to pressing 3 keys. No this is Eve where you just download a bot to do it for you in zero.
look at you
you think nobody bots in highsec "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
950
|
Posted - 2012.03.17 16:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Andski wrote:Famble wrote:Obsidian Hawk wrote:Remember this isnt wow where everyone can script down their entire ui to pressing 3 keys. No this is Eve where you just download a bot to do it for you in zero. look at you you think nobody bots in highsec
Deflection.
Best defense.
As to the OP. I have to agree that the UI needs significant work. A complete remake though? I don't think they have the inclination or resources for it.
Mr Epeen
Me too!-á I ate one sour, too! |
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
125
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Posted - 2012.03.18 15:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Andski wrote:Famble wrote:Obsidian Hawk wrote:Remember this isnt wow where everyone can script down their entire ui to pressing 3 keys. No this is Eve where you just download a bot to do it for you in zero. look at you you think nobody bots in highsec Deflection. Best defense. As to the OP. I have to agree that the UI needs significant work. A complete remake though? I don't think they have the inclination or resources for it. Mr Epeen
They definitely have the resources, but I think you could be right about the inclination. Which is a real shame and shows a lack of foresite on par with Incarna if true. I'm still hoping it's not true, but my enthusiasm for EvE is already waning fast again as I really do think the UI iteration is a very token effort and their priorities seem to be wrong - I mean, who cares about improving the character creation interface? Something that you will only use a small handful of times in your entire EvE career. Time to-áCOMPLETELY REDESIGN THE U.I. FROM SCRATCH: - End the click fest & Multiple Window fest - Streamline and Simplify it-á - Improve scalability-á |
Varve
Oredustries
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 16:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Miss Whippy wrote: If I were a new player I would be utterly perplexed as to how to save settings for different tabs and what a bracket is meant to be.
The tutorials go over this and point you to the relevant Evelopedia page
Miss Whippy wrote: I still find it ludicrous that adding an object to the overview will add it to every tab rather then just the one selected.
Just tried this and nope it doesn't add things to all of my tabs when I add an object
So there's two problems that are, infact, not problems
But yeah the UI does still need polishing and improving.
"...You could still be a hero!" "I'd rather be a protagonist." |
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
125
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 16:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
Varve wrote: The tutorials go over this and point you to the relevant Evelopedia page
A good UI would be self explanatory. I can't think of many games (In fact non come to mind) where I've had to start by trawling through the manual. Also many of the good UI's I've seen have simple mouse-over help options, which can be turned on or off.
Quote: Just tried this and nope it doesn't add things to all of my tabs when I add an object
So there's two problems that are, infact, not problems
But yeah the UI does still need polishing and improving.
It's hard to say if it's a bug or intentional, but I've just tried it again, and adding things (from the space overview) will often add the chosen object to other if not all tabs. It's not consistent in this though, so try again.
The UI needs more polishing and improving that it would be easier just to start again. Even if you were right, that's only two problems out of hundreds. In any case it's not just the problems with the UI, it's that the UI isn't half as good as it should be. Time to-áCOMPLETELY REDESIGN THE U.I. FROM SCRATCH: - End the click fest & Multiple Window fest - Streamline and Simplify it-á - Improve scalability-á |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
425
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Posted - 2012.03.18 16:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP could save a lot of time, effort and money if they would release an API for the community to build a UI off of.
they basically need to create a list of /slash commands we have access to and allow us to hook into them and create / hide / skin elements of the UI.
Then allow the community to create the ui and CCP can just develop the api and focus on ships/content.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Moghwai
Cult of the Fluffy Bunny
0
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Posted - 2012.03.18 18:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:CCP could save a lot of time, effort and money if they would release an API for the community to build a UI off of.
they basically need to create a list of /slash commands we have access to and allow us to hook into them and create / hide / skin elements of the UI.
Then allow the community to create the ui and CCP can just develop the api and focus on ships/content.
Like i already suggested earlier. Got not much response despite the usual whining:-(
Thread in Features and Ideas ------------------------------> While encountered together in captivity, in the wild, the stapler and the staple remover are natural enemies. ------------------------------> |
St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
536
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Posted - 2012.03.19 05:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
As eloquently as Mara Rinn put it in this thread, I somehow doubt CCP has resources to spare to "replace every strut in the Eiffel Tower without shutting the tourist flow down." |
Ender Karazaki
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2012.03.19 06:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
The UI is fine for those who live for solving the Rubix cube and play Tetris. |
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
126
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Posted - 2012.03.19 06:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Moghwai wrote:Zagdul wrote:CCP could save a lot of time, effort and money if they would release an API for the community to build a UI off of.
they basically need to create a list of /slash commands we have access to and allow us to hook into them and create / hide / skin elements of the UI.
Then allow the community to create the ui and CCP can just develop the api and focus on ships/content. Like i already suggested earlier. Got not much response despite the usual whining:-( Thread in Features and Ideas
While it would be interesting, I'm not a fan of this idea. One of the fundamental principles of EVE is that it's an equal playing field. Custom build UI's would lead to all sorts of in game advantage and it would also become macro hell.
Let's just stick to the plan and get CCP to bring EVE into the current decade. If that isn't possible, then I think EVE's days will ultimately be numbered. Sooner of later, someone is going to make something very similar to EVE, but with a better UI and a better Engine. For all I know it already be too late. I'm not being melodramatic, I'd just be amazed if a developer out there hasn't already looked at EVE and seen how they can do it much better. Time to-áCOMPLETELY REDESIGN THE U.I. FROM SCRATCH: - End the click fest & Multiple Window fest - Streamline and Simplify it-á - Improve scalability-á |
Chingy Chonga
The Concilium Enterprises Spectrum Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.03.23 15:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
Miss Whippy wrote:Moghwai wrote:Zagdul wrote:CCP could save a lot of time, effort and money if they would release an API for the community to build a UI off of.
they basically need to create a list of /slash commands we have access to and allow us to hook into them and create / hide / skin elements of the UI.
Then allow the community to create the ui and CCP can just develop the api and focus on ships/content. Like i already suggested earlier. Got not much response despite the usual whining:-( Thread in Features and Ideas While it would be interesting, I'm not a fan of this idea. One of the fundamental principles of EVE is that it's an equal playing field. Custom build UI's would lead to all sorts of in game advantage and it would also become macro hell. Let's just stick to the plan and get CCP to bring EVE into the current decade. If that isn't possible, then I think EVE's days will ultimately be numbered. Sooner of later, someone is going to make something very similar to EVE, but with a better UI and a better Engine. For all I know it already be too late. I'm not being melodramatic, I'd just be amazed if a developer out there hasn't already looked at EVE and seen how they can do it much better.
That, plus I think implementing a system for "add-ons" (more or less) would make the system susceptible to more exploits since it is created with python, but that is just my opinion. |
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