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Elfaen Ethenwe
Caldari
Invicta.
    |
Posted - 2008.07.16 16:20:00 -
[1]
As the corp i fly under has been taking a few days r&r after what has possibly been one of the most sucessful starts to the war from any of the capsuleer corperations. I decided to go spend some time with the caldari in one of there hi-sec agent hubs. I took along with me a friend from a capsuleer alliance to keep my company in the stations caffee and together we waged our own personal war against the clients of Kikosuda Partoh,a high ranking caldari navy agent. Im not normally one for advertising stats but the sheer numbers warrented listing.
Since friday evening i have managed to strip caldari forces of the following:
Caldari Navy Ravens 4
Battleships 12
Battlecruisers 5
Caracel Navy issue 1
Cruisers 5
logistic ships 1
Other kills 11
and 3 pod kills
this was all for the loss of one astarte.
Caldari, i really do hope this isnt the best you offer in defence.
I would like to thank Menace Ace, formally of Omen. for logistical support over the weekend. He has the patience of a saint.
rejoice my fellow allies, we are destined to win this war
<><><>Together we gank, devided we pop<><><><>
Kai made me a sig \o/
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lethario desrtuction
42 Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.16 16:25:00 -
[2]
Very nice
congrats from a old friend
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Hero Crane
Bilge Rats of Tortuga
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:13:00 -
[3]
Very nice, luv... you're a true asset to the federation
WHO'S...YOUR...HERO!!! |
Absolom Hues
Gallente
Strix Armaments and Defence
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 18:47:00 -
[4]
I likewise "tip my hat" to your success. It is good to see reports of the Caldari war effort being hampered.
___
Serving the Gallente Federation... one Caldari ship at a time.
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3ll3
Gallente
Tranquillity Nation
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Posted - 2008.07.16 20:32:00 -
[5]
Do not count your Minerals before they have been mined and hualed my friend. if I know any thing about the Caldari it is that while they are caught napping they are not so tough but when you awaken them they tend to come at you like Bear with a sore head.
Do not underestermate your enemy it is the golden unwritten rule of combat, I congratulate you on your victories but advice caution over premature victory celebrations.
Sorry about the spelling by the way
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Zagamesh
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2008.07.16 22:45:00 -
[6]
Excellent work Captain. Nowhere is safe for the enemies of freedom. |
Stitcher
Caldari
Duty.
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 23:18:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Zagamesh
Excellent work Captain. Nowhere is safe for the enemies of freedom.
Oh, that one's rich. "Enemies of freedom"? I've been called a lot of things in my time, but I've never been accused of that one before.
Anyway, thank you, Pilot Ethenwe, for providing some of our rookie pilots with a much-needed education. I assure you, those people were a LONG way from representing the best our forces have to offer.
-
Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Keorythe
Caldari
Terra Rosa Militia
Sev3rance
|
Posted - 2008.07.17 00:35:00 -
[8]
Originally by: El**** Ethenwe
Caldari, i really do hope this isnt the best you offer in defence.
You and a friend fought mission rigged ships in pvp rigged ships and you wonder why you did so well. Even a pvp rigged Brutix with a single ECM can trash a lone navy issue Raven thats rigged for pve.
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Keorythe
Caldari
Terra Rosa Militia
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2008.07.17 00:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zagamesh
Excellent work Captain. Nowhere is safe for the enemies of freedom.
Take your "enemies of freedom" quotes to the Amarr/Minmatar threads where they belong. The Gallente are no friends of freedom considering what they did to the Caldari before and during the exodus and what led up to the current war.
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Hero Crane
Bilge Rats of Tortuga
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Posted - 2008.07.17 01:06:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Keorythe
Originally by: El**** Ethenwe
Caldari, i really do hope this isnt the best you offer in defence.
You and a friend fought mission rigged ships in pvp rigged ships and you wonder why you did so well. Even a pvp rigged Brutix with a single ECM can trash a lone navy issue Raven thats rigged for pve.
mission rigged? whoa whoa...are you just guessing because if not cite your evidence. It seems a little moronic and whiny to just assume that all the ships were fitted for missioning with no proof.
and even if they were ALL mission fitted(however unlikely), still 39 ships in the SAME system!?! you'd think after the first three kills, they'd wise up and properly fit their ships or...do something useful other than add to the death toll.
So, again to the OP: congrats and well done
WHO'S...YOUR...HERO!!! |
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Zagamesh
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2008.07.17 04:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Keorythe
Take your "enemies of freedom" quotes to the Amarr/Minmatar threads where they belong. The Gallente are no friends of freedom considering what they did to the Caldari before and during the exodus and what led up to the current war.
The Caldari began the first war when their Corporation's deniable assets collapsed the dome of Nouvelle Rouvenor. The Federation had every right to respond to such an act of absolute betrayal and villainy on the part of the Caldari with every means at their disposal.
As for the current war, the Caldari again were the aggressors. So envious are they of our Federation's prosperity and freedom and once again we are in the right to use every tactic at our disposal to prosecute this war. Even though today we may only be fighting a CONCORD sponsored proxy war, I for one cannot wait for the day when the full might of the Federation is unleashed upon your pathetic State and every planet is nothing more than plains of glass.
Perhaps this time the Federation will have the strength and conviction to finally end the Caldari menace. |
Vieve Tisserand
Gallente
Strix Armaments and Defence
|
Posted - 2008.07.17 04:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Zagamesh
Even though today we may only be fighting a CONCORD sponsored proxy war, I for one cannot wait for the day when the full might of the Federation is unleashed upon your pathetic State and every planet is nothing more than plains of glass.
Perhaps this time the Federation will have the strength and conviction to finally end the Caldari menace.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is precisely why I have no desire to be a diplomatic officer.
Effective immediately, my leave of absence from corporate military operations is extended indefinitely.
Oh, Captain Ethenwe, since I completely failed to see any mention of it in your initial announcement of your recent activities in Aramachi -- could you please clarify for the cluster whether or not the pilots you targeted were all members of the State Protectorate militia? Thank you. That would be kind.
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Zagamesh
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2008.07.17 04:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Vieve Tisserand
Effective immediately, my leave of absence from corporate military operations is extended indefinitely.
Such is your right. A combat zone is probably no place for a bleeding heart, limp-wristed leftist such as yourself. Why don't you go organize a protest or go write to your Senator about how this war so badly affects your sensitive sensibilities while good men and women fight and die to secure the freedoms you enjoy.
I'm disappointed, I truly am. |
Hero Crane
Bilge Rats of Tortuga
|
Posted - 2008.07.17 05:01:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zagamesh
Such is your right. A combat zone is probably no place for a bleeding heart, limp-wristed leftist such as yourself. Why don't you go organize a protest or go write to your Senator about how this war so badly affects your sensitive sensibilities while good men and women fight and die to secure the freedoms you enjoy.
I'm disappointed, I truly am.
QFT
WHO'S...YOUR...HERO!!! |
Vieve Tisserand
Gallente
Strix Armaments and Defence
|
Posted - 2008.07.17 05:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Zagamesh
Such is your right. A combat zone is probably no place for a bleeding heart, limp-wristed leftist such as yourself. Why don't you go organize a protest or go write to your Senator about how this war so badly affects your sensitive sensibilities while good men and women fight and die to secure the freedoms you enjoy.
I'm disappointed, I truly am.
Leftist.
I think that is likely the first time I have ever been called that.
Organize a protest?
Write to my Senator?
Fate, you truly do know nothing about me, do you?
But, call me and suggest to me whatever you wish.
It will not compel me to support your or anyone else's endorsing genocide.
As for your disappointment, consider the feeling more than mutual. |
Zagamesh
Strix Armaments and Defence
|
Posted - 2008.07.17 06:13:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Zagamesh on 17/07/2008 06:13:16
Originally by: Vieve Tisserand
It will not compel me to support your or anyone else's endorsing genocide.
Genocide? Not at all. I endorse the destruction of the State's Corporations and their immoral culture.
Although some Caldari are capable of cultural enlightenment and are more than capable of integrating into the Federation; a far greater number cling steadfastly to their obsolete anachronism of a "culture".
A culture which endorses blatant militarism and an almost feudal loyalty to the Corporations.
Corporations which in turn do nothing more than stamp their boots on the backs of their employees as they endeavour to drain every last ISK from them. While the priviledged heirs of families which own the stocks of the Megacorps down some more long-limbed roes.
Corporations that attempt to destroy every shred of individuality, freedom, and humanity until all their employees march in goose-step together as they chant their corporate lines. Control every aspect of their lives until the only reality they know is that which the Corporation so carefully creates for them. Their only thoughts those the Corporation's memeticists conjure up.
Corporations ,and by extension their employees, which willingly support and condone the actions of their Dictator, Tibus Heth. A xenophobic madman whom put Federal citizens into camps and stripped them of their belongings all the while being terrorrized by his "provists". A man who dragged our Federation into a war for no other reason than ignorance and to satiate his hatred.
The Corporations and their employees have shown their utter lack of morality, civility and just plain human decency in their support for this man. So long as the State's culture and Corporations support men such as Heth then the only way our Federation will ever know peace is in the complete and utter eradication of their State, their corporations and their culture.
If it requires the destruction of the State on an such a scale as to be compared to genocide, then so be it. I won't be shedding any tears for the Caldari.
Weak men and women such as yourself Mlle. Tisserand prevented us in finally ending the threat of the Caldari Corporations in the first war. I only hope we have learnt from history and do not repeat the mistakes of the past.
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Ereka Nihil
Crux Offensive Systems
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Posted - 2008.07.17 08:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Zagamesh
...I for one cannot wait for the day when the full might of the Federation is unleashed upon your pathetic State and every planet is nothing more than plains of glass.
Perhaps this time the Federation will have the strength and conviction to finally end the Caldari menace.
So is this what the average Federal citizen thinks of the Caldari? Nothing more than a disease to exterminate, an error to correct?
How barbaric. Maybe I was mistaken all these years, seeing the Gallente as a noble group of people who strove to defend peace and freedom, liberated intellect in a sea of conformity and dogma.
Wishing this upon an entire race of people is nothing short of genocide. There are innocents in this conflict, people who literally have no choice but to endure Heth's rule or starve in the streets at night, parents who have children to feed and provide a future for. Yet you treat them all as little puppets of that dictatorial monster, fit for nothing but eradication.
Incredible.
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Kade Jeekin
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.07.17 09:32:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Zagamesh
Weak men and women such as yourself Mlle. Tisserand prevented us in finally ending the threat of the Caldari Corporations in the first war. I only hope we have learnt from history and do not repeat the mistakes of the past.
Zagamesh, without denying your justified vitriol against the Caldari state I wish to point you to the real historical reason for the signing of peace between your Federation and the State. ie stalemate followed by realisation of a greater threat, the Amarrian Empire. Source
It is disingenuous of you to infer that the very liberalism you fight for is the cause of your failure to beat the Caldari state militarily. That this liberalism was so economically successful is what has led the Caldari to attempt to disrupt it, through jealousy.
As to the OP. Well done.
---------------------------------------
Outface the depths of evil with clarity
--------------------------------------- |
Elfaen Ethenwe
Caldari
Invicta.
|
Posted - 2008.07.17 10:11:00 -
[19]
Vieve,
Not all poilots engaged were state militia, some were supporters. owever no neutral entities were enaged.
And in response to those who say i engaged only defensless money farming mission runners, think again. The caldari did at times put up quite a lot of resistance, however i crushed it.
<><><>Together we gank, devided we pop<><><><>
Kai made me a sig \o/
|
Cypher Deus
Caldari
Strix Armaments and Defence
|
Posted - 2008.07.17 11:32:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Cypher Deus on 17/07/2008 11:33:19
Originally by: Zagamesh
Even though today we may only be fighting a CONCORD sponsored proxy war, I for one cannot wait for the day when the full might of the Federation is unleashed upon your pathetic State and every planet is nothing more than plains of glass.
Perhaps this time the Federation will have the strength and conviction to finally end the Caldari menace.
I'm afraid that I will have to disagree with you on this point Captain Zagamesh. I believe it is a gross generalisation to consider the entire Caldari State to be a menace - as with all such things, it is a minority that our argument is with, with the majority being innocent in this matter. Our argument being with the monster Heth and his cronies, who have subverted the Caldari system for their own ends. The Caldari people in general are good but lack the power to rise up against Heth - witness the recent "Brothers of Freedom" actions to see how swiftly and effectively the State deals with those who strive to fight the inadequacies of the system from within.
 |
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Gerrard DuNord
Strix Armaments and Defence
|
Posted - 2008.07.17 12:47:00 -
[21]
I think it's vital here to distinguish between the Caldari people and the murderous, fascist dogs that support the current political make-up of the Caldari State. To this end, any references to the 'State' that I make should be seen in this context.
Racial or ethnic divisions are soley useful when wishing to identify a group of people by their origin. Wishing ill on any person based on their place of birth is to be condemned. However, wishing ill on those who support the fascist regime that currently reigns in the State is to be wholeheartedly commended. I would not go as far as Captain Zagamesh in desiring the Caldari planets to be turned 'to glass', but I would support his desire to eradicate any supporters of the State from the face of the galaxy. When individuals are cohersed, bullied or forced to bend to the wishes of a ruling elite it should be opposed by any right minded person. Not that I'd argue that the Federation is perfect, as it is not by any means. However, the difference is that the Federation attempts to place individual liberty at the heart of it's policy. When dealing with populations of countless billions it is very difficult to achieve true consensus, but that does not mean the goal is any less valid.
The State is guilty of crimes against both it's own people and those of other nations. I fight just as much for the rights of the downtrodden masses in Caldari space as I do for the defence of the Federation. When dealing with those who seek to oppress I neither give quarter, nor expect to receive it. If the cost of freedom has to be paid for in blood, then so be it, I will shed mine on the front line alongside those who seek to create a galaxy where all peoples can live in freedom and prosperity regardless of ethnic origin.
And just to pre-empt anticipated replies from State lapdogs, I don't support Federation expansion into areas where the people do not desire to be part of the Federation. I do believe, however, that the true desires of the Caldari people are not heard due to their throats being trodden upon by the jackboots of a small minority of their own kin who seek to exploit them. Once those boots are forever removed by force of arms, whatever the will is of the Caldari people for their future can be brought to fruition.
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Drethon
Gallente
Selinir
|
Posted - 2008.07.17 14:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Vieve Tisserand
Effective immediately, my leave of absence from corporate military operations is extended indefinitely.
Vieve, just remember there are still just battles to be fought. If you don't feel it right to participate in battles against the State militia there are still innocents to be protected. Pacifism has its place but only when those who cannot defend themselves are not under attack and fighting to defend is always worthwhile, even if it means I may have to fight alongside the State militia if the Federation do not stop once the State stop attacking Federation space.
If I read too much into your statement and you do not intend to go fully pacifist, please ignore my statement.
Originally by: Ereka Nihil
So is this what the average Federal citizen thinks of the Caldari? Nothing more than a disease to exterminate, an error to correct?
Ereka, my closest friend is an Achura. I do not respect any race of the State or other empires any less or more than I do my own people. I had hoped this war could be avoided but now it is too late.
This war places many in the Federation in a very hard position. We see Caldari forces invading our space and killing Federation people in the process. Most in the Federation have never personally met Heth or any of those directly involved in the attack and cannot fight directly against these people. As a result they lash out against what they can find, any Caldari, whether or not they were involved in the attacks.
It is part of the nature of all people to want to lash out when attacked and if they cannot lash out at their attackers they will lash out at the next closest thing they can find, sometimes even their own families.
Help us by showing that Caldari are not some evil demons intent on destroying the Federation. There are many who simply wish for blood and will not listen but many others can be swayed.
I regret every life I must take but laying down your sword for peace with an implacable enemy can instead mean your enemy is the only one who has peace. I will end fighting for the Federation when no hostile ships are occupying Federation space.
____
"Some times peace must be purchased at the tip of a sword." |
Vieve Tisserand
Gallente
Strix Armaments and Defence
|
Posted - 2008.07.17 17:41:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Drethon
...even if it means I may have to fight alongside the State militia if the Federation do not stop once the State stop attacking Federation space.
I think you understand me better than you initially believed.
I did say 'corporate' military operations. Please do not be terribly surprised at the idea of Ereka and I hosting ... hmm ... a girls' night out in Placid.
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Trent Valtine
Gallente
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2008.07.17 18:25:00 -
[24]
Captain Nihil, Zagamesh speaks for no one but himself. His views are certainly those of the far-right minority.
Zagamesh, I disagree with your views of the State completely. Though the current incarnation of the Caldari State is ruled by a facist, warmongering fool who murdered countless Gallente citizens in the destruction he caused on Caldari Prime, it is not the role of the Federation to dismantle the whole State government. Only the Caldari people can do that. It must be a choice from the inside, not something forced on it from the outside.
The Caldari people I've known throughout my life are good, practical, hard working people who are able to put the needs to society above their own needs. They were some of the best members of any union I helped organize before my time as a capsuleer. I firmly believe that they will put up with only so much of Heth's racist stupidity before realizing that it's bad for society and bad for business. Hopefully that tipping point comes sooner rather than later.
It is, however, the duty of the Federation to protect its citizens. If that means keeping our low sec territory uncontested, that is what I will work towards. However, if it comes to a point that the only way we can protect ourselves from Caldari aggression is to push our walls right up to the edge of Caldari high-sec, I will do that as well.
However, I will not be a part of actively taking down the State. The Federation and its people is better than that. We can work with the State side-by-side, peacefully, as long as the State keeps its hands to its self. However, it has not been doing that recently. All we truly want is peace. It is the State that has forced us to fight for it.
 |
Kora Bequin
Strix Armaments and Defence
|
Posted - 2008.07.17 20:42:00 -
[25]
I must agree with Mme. Tisserand and Monsieur Valtine.
I for one have not been actively engaged in militia matters despite my corporation's alliance. However, I do support the war as long as it's restricted to Heth's forces and those who would follow such a murderer.
Most of the Federation did not and still do not want this war. It has been forced on us by Heth. But that does not mean we will not fight back.
In fact, I believe this war will end the way the previous one did, in a stalemate. All the Caldari will get out of this is perhaps Caldari Prime (which they should have been given back long ago) when everything is over.
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Elfaen Ethenwe
Caldari
Invicta.
|
Posted - 2008.07.17 23:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kora Bequin
I must agree with Mme. Tisserand and Monsieur Valtine.
I for one have not been actively engaged in militia matters despite my corporation's alliance. However, I do support the war as long as it's restricted to Heth's forces and those who would follow such a murderer.
Most of the Federation did not and still do not want this war. It has been forced on us by Heth. But that does not mean we will not fight back.
In fact, I believe this war will end the way the previous one did, in a stalemate. All the Caldari will get out of this is perhaps Caldari Prime (which they should have been given back long ago) when everything is over.
we may have or have not wanted this war, regardless of the feeling its here, happening right now. I just intend to hurt financially and mentally as many caldari members who participate. If my sensors show that the navy raven in front of me is alligned to or a member of the state protectorate, you can guarentee it wont be a navy raven for much longer. As a corp, in our hi-sec adventures since friday evening we have totalled well over 25 billion damage done. Including some very suspect pith, gist and dread gurrista fitted ravens.
All proceeds of our attacking will of course go to strengthening our attacking forces.
<><><>Together we gank, devided we pop<><><><>
Kai made me a sig \o/
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Gervais Zhang
Strix Armaments and Defence
|
Posted - 2008.07.18 14:20:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Gervais Zhang on 18/07/2008 14:22:18
In case there is any question, official Strix corporate policy remains unchanged. In this time of crisis, we stand behind President Foiritan, the Senate, and Navy. We continue to support our members' rights to express themselves, so long as they do not support illegal activities within Federation territory or any surrender of Federation sovereignty. As for strategy, we will sustain our operations beside the Federation Navy, Federal Intelligence Office, and Federal Defence Union in accordance with national civil and military leadership within the bounds of common sense.
I can assure the community at-large that Strix will not pursue the "glassing" of any planet, Caldari or otherwise. Anyone who has actually bothered to monitor Strix's actions since its inception should have no problem accepting that. As for muzzling our members' ability to express themselves, I'd rather see Gallente Prime burn.
What the **** are we fighting for if not for freedom tempered by the rule of law?
Strix is recruiting Federation patriots. |
Jonny Damordred
Stimulus
|
Posted - 2008.07.18 20:20:00 -
[28]
To all those who ask why we Freecaptians lump the Federation in with the Amarrians and Caldari: This is why.
One hopes that the Matari become better than that.
Jonny D.
-------------------------
CEO and Professor of Gunboat Diplomacy |
Zagamesh
Strix Armaments and Defence
|
Posted - 2008.07.19 03:50:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ereka Nihil
So is this what the average Federal citizen thinks of the Caldari? Nothing more than a disease to exterminate, an error to correct?
That sums up the State pretty well.
Originally by: Ereka Nihil
How barbaric. Maybe I was mistaken all these years, seeing the Gallente as a noble group of people who strove to defend peace and freedom, liberated intellect in a sea of conformity and dogma.
Pffft, yeah I'm a noble knight of Garoun riding out to protect fair damsels from the lecherous advances of dirty peasants. Why don't you leave such naive notions and fairytales in the kindergarten classrom where it belongs. A certain degree of barbarity is required in this war - to ensure the safety and survival of the Federation against an evil and immoral enemy.
Originally by: Ereka Nihil
Wishing this upon an entire race of people is nothing short of genocide. There are innocents in this conflict, people who literally have no choice but to endure Heth's rule or starve in the streets at night, parents who have children to feed and provide a future for. Yet you treat them all as little puppets of that dictatorial monster, fit for nothing but eradication.
All the citizens of a state are responsible for the actions of that state. All the Caldari are just as guilty as their leaders for instigating this war against the Federation.
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Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
|
Posted - 2008.07.19 04:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Zagamesh
Originally by: Ereka Nihil
Wishing this upon an entire race of people is nothing short of genocide. There are innocents in this conflict, people who literally have no choice but to endure Heth's rule or starve in the streets at night, parents who have children to feed and provide a future for. Yet you treat them all as little puppets of that dictatorial monster, fit for nothing but eradication.
All the citizens of a state are responsible for the actions of that state. All the Caldari are just as guilty as their leaders for instigating this war against the Federation.
Now I am confused; I thought it was the general opinion of Federation propaganda that the employees of State corporations had no say in the actions of those corporations?
Zagamesh, you appear to have taken an extreme view with such zeal that I would mistake it for an Amarrian preaching the enslavement of a world for the purposes of bringing them into their God's light.
 Founder Heiian Society |
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Julianus Soter
Gallente
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 04:55:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Julianus Soter on 19/07/2008 05:10:25
Mr. Damordred... you understand that this man... Zagamesh... does not speak for all of us. I am as disgusted by his commentary as with any Amarrian or Caldari ultra-nationalist calls for destruction.
Yes, I am in this war to finish it. Tibus Heth and his affront to the freedom of all pilots and citizens of our universe will be taken down from power and justly tried for his crimes.
But the People of the State are where we must place our hopes for a lasting peace. Otro Gariushi's death must not have been in vain... his life must not have been lived in vain. Peaceful coexistence between our two civilizations and cultures is the only bulwark we have against total annihilation.
And Zagamesh, before you criticize me, or attack me ad hominem... know that my corporation has toiled and worked in this cause since the inception of this conflict. Know that we have done more to damage Heth's reputation than, quite frankly, your vitriol and blustering and genocidal threats ever can. Unless you plan on destroying several dozen billion ISK in Provist assets any time soon.
"We can be united in purpose...but we will never, ever be united in hate."
I only pray that we will not all be judged by your statements here, Zagamesh... that you don't jeopardize everything.
I will no longer be coordinating with Strix corporate authorities. I will remove them from my moderated channels and they will continue to be banned until the present situation and attitude changes.
These things must have consequences. Calls for murder, and premeditation of that murder, are completely intolerable.
---
This post is not the official statement of my alliance or corporation.
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Gervais Zhang
Strix Armaments and Defence
|
Posted - 2008.07.19 06:08:00 -
[32]
Irony:
"Don't judge the Federation by the opinions of one citizen. Strix, we now hate you because, in spite of a long history of humanitarian aid and charity work, you have one member with extreme opinions."
Incidentally, I think you better start vetting your own corporation, mate. Based on current trends amongst the Federation population, I expect a large number of every Federation corporation's membership, from capsuleers down to janitorial staff, are being particularly bloodyminded these days.
Yay for overreaction!
Strix is recruiting Federation patriots. |
Shroomer
Minmatar
Calamitous Enterprise
|
Posted - 2008.07.19 09:56:00 -
[33]
Good work Elf old friend. Maybe I will have the chance to fight with you again soon.
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Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.07.19 10:30:00 -
[34]
Well, it's good to hear that someone's teaching those capsuleers who hunt conventional assets in expensively tricked-out battleships for a living to stay on their toes.
Just please do keep your Demented in check. Talking about glassing planets is foolish bravado; doing it would be a much less forgivable stupidity.
Ghost Festival is recruiting! |
Stitcher
Caldari
Duty.
|
Posted - 2008.07.19 11:19:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Zagamesh
A certain degree of barbarity is required in this war - to ensure the safety and survival of the Federation against an evil and immoral enemy.
I daresay, pilot, that the Caldari standard for morality by which most of our citizens live leaves your own looking shriveled and embryonic by comparison.
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Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Stitcher
Caldari
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 11:35:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Stitcher on 19/07/2008 11:39:43
Originally by: Julianus Soter
Yes, I am in this war to finish it. Tibus Heth and his affront to the freedom of all pilots and citizens of our universe will be taken down from power and justly tried for his crimes.
But the People of the State are where we must place our hopes for a lasting peace. Otro Gariushi's death must not have been in vain... his life must not have been lived in vain. Peaceful coexistence between our two civilizations and cultures is the only bulwark we have against total annihilation.
...
"We can be united in purpose...but we will never, ever be united in hate."
...
These things must have consequences. Calls for murder, and premeditation of that murder, are completely intolerable.
I...
Captain Soter, I feel I may owe you an apology for any accusations I may have leveled at you in recent weeks. It seems that I misjudged you. I fear your chest-beating and self-aggrandizing over your corporation's little prank in Jita managed to rub me the wrong way, and set me against you.
Assuming you're in earnest about quoting Mr. Gariushi and his message, and more importantly in upholding the intent behind them (I'll do you the credit of assuming that you are) then I can only say that you're a better man than I had you pegged as, and offer my immediate apology for any injustice I may have done you. In my family's tradition, I'm offering you a "Joitunmei" - a conditional retraction of any personal hostility I feel towards you and your corporation. My condition is that, in future when you gain victory over Caldari forces in this senseless war (as is inevitable), you try not to be quite as insufferably smug about it as you have been in the past.
Do you accept?
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Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Julianus Soter
Gallente
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 13:22:00 -
[37]
Of course, Verin. But you must know that my beliefs have always been the same... I have no hatred of the Caldari, rather, I respect the strength of their convictions and values. The purpose of my earlier antagonism was to smudge the image of Tibus Heth enshrouded in glory at Arcurio.
I agree to your conditions.
Mssr. Zhang.
Allowing that member to continue to ramble on unremittedly about the wholesale slaughter of billions of individuals does not shine kindly upon the reputation of our cause. Yes, our people are angry, as I am, and they thirst for justice, but is our duty as capsuleers to lead them and direct their anger towards the real nemesis, Heth.
And we can only lead by example. If we do not have the courage to do so, then we risk an endless war and untold bloodshed on both sides.
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This post is not the official statement of my alliance or corporation.
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Gervais Zhang
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2008.07.19 16:20:00 -
[38]
"Mssr. Zhang.
Allowing that member to continue to ramble on unremittedly about the wholesale slaughter of billions of individuals does not shine kindly upon the reputation of our cause. Yes, our people are angry, as I am, and they thirst for justice, but is our duty as capsuleers to lead them and direct their anger towards the real nemesis, Heth.
And we can only lead by example. If we do not have the courage to do so, then we risk an endless war and untold bloodshed on both sides. "
Strix has been leading by example since before you graduated the Academy mate. As for your suggestion that we deny our members the right to express themselves as individual citizens of the Federation, I wonder what country you are actually from; at the moment, you're not sounding like a Gallentean. Or do you propose that we cease following the liberal traditions of free speech and expression on which our nation was founded?
Strix is recruiting Federation patriots. |
Remy Valios
Gallente
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2008.07.19 17:03:00 -
[39]
As with such times, there will always be extremists on every side of the conflict- it is an inevitable circumstance that arises and must simply be faced for what it is, spoken against, and moved past.
I'd never wish to see any world glassed, so much more for the fact that I am from the dirtside, and still hold strong ties to my planet-side origins.
I... it's hard to know where to start. I had thought that this war was thickening my skin and hardening my heart to the atrocities of war- but this sheer, genocidal, irrational hatred has gotten through.
Before this war began, before I joined Strix, I took a time to head out from the Federation, and travel in my unarmed frigate (having removed the turrets, not that they'd have done much anyways), into the State. There, I reached out to the corporations both grand and small, in seek of aid for humanitarian efforts- but more, to learn what it means to be Caldari. To serve the corporation, to... well, there's so much more to it than mere words can describe.
I did this, and perhaps some of you who spoke with me, or spoke with that Remy from that time remember, because understanding was key to remembering that the enemy is human, and has human wishes as much as you or I, and that many are just good people doing what good people do.
I warned that if we didn't understand our foe, we would dehumanize them, and we could do inhuman things to them, when we did. My greatest fear, it was- and having failed in trying to show others what it meant to be Caldari, someone with such a hateful, extremist, zealous belief can hold such beliefs. That, or despite it, he still does, which would be worse.
I pray for and wish for, a return to the way things were- I fight, along with the rest of the Federation Defense Union, for my home, and my beliefs, but I would much rather the guns be put down and we all returned to being rational people.
Remy Valios, Strix
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What a terrible, necessary, dissapointing pursuit, peace is. |
Julianus Soter
Gallente
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 17:50:00 -
[40]
Monsieur Zhang.
I do not want to go down this road. You're more than this... more than personal attacks against my patriotism, my commitment to the beliefs that all Gallente know to be sacred.
But is it so hard to bring yourself to say that killing billions of innocent civilians stuck on planets is wrong ? If it is... then I fear that the whole of your cause is lost.
When a person that was previously a diplomatic representative of your corporation makes such statements, people tend to take them seriously. Beyond that, these views are entirely incompatible and adverse to the doctrines of human self-determination and individual liberty that you claim to protect.
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This post is not the official statement of my alliance or corporation.
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Trent Valtine
Gallente
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2008.07.19 18:42:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Julianus Soter
But is it so hard to bring yourself to say that killing billions of innocent civilians stuck on planets is wrong ? If it is... then I fear that the whole of your cause is lost.
Captain Soter, I respectfully suggest that you read what Gervais has already said before flying off the handle and declaring Strix banned from your channels and operations.
Quote:
In case there is any question, official Strix corporate policy remains unchanged. In this time of crisis, we stand behind President Foiritan, the Senate, and Navy. We continue to support our members' rights to express themselves, so long as they do not support illegal activities within Federation territory or any surrender of Federation sovereignty. As for strategy, we will sustain our operations beside the Federation Navy, Federal Intelligence Office, and Federal Defence Union in accordance with national civil and military leadership within the bounds of common sense.
I can assure the community at-large that Strix will not pursue the "glassing" of any planet, Caldari or otherwise. Anyone who has actually bothered to monitor Strix's actions since its inception should have no problem accepting that. As for muzzling our members' ability to express themselves, I'd rather see Gallente Prime burn.
What the **** are we fighting for if not for freedom tempered by the rule of law?
Was that not an official statement from Strix leadership that the corporation as a whole does not support the wholesale wholesale slaughter of billions of innocent civilians through planetary bombardment? Or through any other method?
Hell, Jules, just look at mine and Vieve's comments on this thread and see that Zag's statements aren't supported by us.
However, to bar him from making those comments would be to restrict the freedoms granted to him as a citizen of the Federation, and that is not the way we operate in Strix.
Freedom of speech is central to democracy. How can we muzzle those with extreme positions and still pretend that we support individual liberty? To do so would be hypocracy. Zagamesh, just like me and you, speaks only for himself here. Even when I speak of the Federation as a whole, I'm still only speaking my views, my interpretation. If Zag can't speak his mind, why can we?
Several Strix members have already commented in disagreement with Zagamesh, even before you decided to bar our corporation from coordinated war efforts. Does that not show quite obviously that he doesn't speak for anyone but himself? What purpose, then, does all this serve? Why not just bar him from all your channels and operations? To cut off Strix, an organization with a long history of level-headed service to the Federation and humanitarian pursuits, just for the extreme views of one of its members makes no sense at all.
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Zagamesh
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2008.07.19 22:52:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Zagamesh on 19/07/2008 22:55:00
Originally by: Julianus Soter
But the People of the State are where we must place our hopes for a lasting peace. Otro Gariushi's death must not have been in vain... his life must not have been lived in vain.
You seem to have alot of respect and admiration for a man whose corporation he ran profited greatly from the sale of transcranial microcontrollers to the Khanid Kingdom. Devices which were promptly used on the enslaved peoples of that nation. Devices which removed all semblance of individual thought, will or action on those that were subjected to such an abhorrent implement. Perhaps you also condone contributing to the enslavement and oppression of entire peoples in order to satisfy your greed just like Otro Gariushi? It wouldn't surprise me, you Caldari-loving dog. Fortunate indeed that the hero Alexander Noir martyred himself to end the existence of such a disgusting man at Malkalen.
Originally by: Julianus Soter
Peaceful coexistence between our two civilizations and cultures is the only bulwark we have against total annihilation.
We gave them peace once. We extendended our hands in friendship towards them and all we recieved in turn was to be bitten again by war and aggression on the part of the Caldari. The only way the Federation shall know peace is in the total annihilation of the Caldari State. Do you wish for peace Captain Solter, or to simply repeat the mistakes of the past so that our descendents will have to continue to face the threat of Caldari aggression?
Originally by: Julianus Soter
Calls for murder, and premeditation of that murder, are completely intolerable.
I agree, although if this is in reference to myself it is erroneous. I have never participated in a killing that was unlawful either by those of CONCORD or that of the Federation and never will. If it is in reference to the tactic of planetary "glassing" then all that I have to say is this: If a lawful order was given by the government of the Federation to sanction such a tactic then I fail to see how it would be classified as murder as it would not be an illegal action to enforce.
On that point, I fail to find the basis of the outrage on such a tactic. Full planetary destruction of key strategic planets within the State should remain as a viable alternative where planetary occupation would be unfeasible; or if it is determined that the ability to hold the system the planet is located in is untentable such a tactic will deny the use of that planet's resources to the enemy. Besides, if enough damage is inflicted it will bring a speedy resolution to this war as a State in diaspora presents little credible threat to the safety of the Federation. Although, personally I would see it as a great tragedy to see such destruction in the Irridente of Lonetrek, The Forge, The Citadel, and Black Rise I am certain those planets would be habitable again in possibly a century or two.
At the end of the day Captain Solter, I should remind you in case you have forgotten or indeed if you have ever even known that in the Federation there is a difference between what a man thinks and what a man does. I have the unalienable right to think and believe what I damn well please, just as any other citizen of the Federation has. Do you presume now that you wish Strix to censor me for simply excercising my right to state those thoughts and beliefs simply because they do not fall in line with your own? Do you, like your hero Otro Gariushi want to stick a transcranial microcontroller in my head so that I think and believe as you do in line with your "cause"? If so, I will call you for what you are:
A Fascist.
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Stitcher
Caldari
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 23:26:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Stitcher on 19/07/2008 23:30:58
This is just a thought here, but...
I know Strix is so very much opposed to the sort of things that Zagamesh here is spouting off, but can't go so far as to actually silence him without abandoning your principles. (welcome to one of the reasons the Caldari reject democracy, incidentally) However...
Is there anything to stop you from taking a vote on the issue of, say, kicking him out of the corporation? If he's at liberty to say what he damn well pleases, controversy or no, then you're at liberty to disassociate yourself from the bigoted madman, surely?
Besides, my interpretation of Democracy is "majority rule". If ninety percent of you are opposed to Zagamesh's brand of irrational hatred, then the remaining ten percent has to abide by the majority decision, as I understand it. If the ninety percent reckon that Zagamesh should shut that hole in his face before something bad comes out of it (too late) then, presumably, the galaxy becomes a slightly more pleasant place for not having to listen to him any longer.
Liberty's a bit of a raw deal if you can't tell the people who are making the rest of you look bad to shut the frag up.
Say hello to the biggest flaw in liberty - you're free to think whatever the hell you like. even if what you think is crayon-up-the-nose stupid.
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Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Marcel Bigeard
Strix Armaments and Defence</ |