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Belmarduk
Amarr de Prieure Four Elements
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:06:00 -
[1]
The whole situation is very bad atm. As far as I reckon it will go like this:
Prices will keep rising The players who till now used isk to buy GTC will: a) quit or cancel accounts b) change to a different payment option
Then the demand will be lower and the GTC will start to crash..and I mean crash hard... This situation is in the long run bad for BOTH buyers and sellers.
Making 400-700 mio isk in 2 months JUST TO PAY the account is going to be too much for MOST buyers
Whats the point in working for isk just be able to pay the account to be able to work for the isk to be able........................
Sure there are some players who are so rich that they could pay 1 milliarde for 60 days - well I am not and most others neither... Greetings Belmarduk CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
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Siddy
Minmatar Gay Nationalist Association of Amamake
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:11:00 -
[2]
laws of capitalism, you know not.
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Belmarduk
Amarr de Prieure Four Elements
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:24:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Siddy laws of capitalism, you know not.
Yep I suppose so - Works perfect if one looks at what is going on in the U.S. atm... CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
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Feng Schui
Minmatar Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:28:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Feng Schui on 16/07/2008 18:31:08
Originally by: Siddy laws of capitalism, you know not.
Pot, meet kettle.
The laws of capitalism also dictate that there is varying products for the consumer to choose from.
Before this fiasco, the GTC market was, for the most part, stable, and at a good equilibrium. However, after the changes went through, and stock started selling out fast, the equilibrium was shattered. At the moment, there is a hell of alot more demand than there is supply. Prices are rising.
However, the OP does have a point, where they will keep rising, then crash due to there being a severe lack of demand. Once this happens, people will start buying, and it will go full circle.
In my opinion, I highly doubt we will see market equilibrium again with GTC's, since we are talking about real money being involved. It would be interesting to see Dr. Whatshisnuts give his opinion about it though, since I only have had a small class in macroeconomics, not like I have a Ph.D or anything
Quote: Yep I suppose so - Works perfect if one looks at what is going on in the U.S. atm...
The US isn't a capitalist country, and with that being said, China is actually more capitalistic than we are . 10 ISK to the person that can list why
Project:Gank
Pilgrim Guide
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:30:00 -
[5]
The current prices are still effectively lower than they were back in November.
Give it sometime to stabalize.
Don't forget that alot, if not most, GTC are bought by players maintaining additional accounts.
If GTC prices rise too high, those secondary accounts will simply be suspended until prices return to more reasonable levels.
Supply and demand will naturally work to balance itself out. It just takes time for it to return to an equalibrium since the balance was changed.
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Viqtoria
Caldari Groping Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:50:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Feng Schui
The US isn't a capitalist country, and with that being said, China is actually more capitalistic than we are . 10 ISK to the person that can list why
is it because the west's economy is highly service based now, mostly self indulgent bullshit, and in china masses of capital is being invested to exploit the ginormous latent profit potential?
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Siddy
Minmatar Gay Nationalist Association of Amamake
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Viqtoria
Originally by: Feng Schui
The US isn't a capitalist country, and with that being said, China is actually more capitalistic than we are . 10 ISK to the person that can list why
is it because the west's economy is highly service based now, mostly self indulgent bullshit, and in china masses of capital is being invested to exploit the ginormous latent profit potential?
China has so much dollars that they culd start wiping they arses with them :D
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Viqtoria
Caldari Groping Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Siddy
Originally by: Viqtoria
Originally by: Feng Schui
The US isn't a capitalist country, and with that being said, China is actually more capitalistic than we are . 10 ISK to the person that can list why
is it because the west's economy is highly service based now, mostly self indulgent bullshit, and in china masses of capital is being invested to exploit the ginormous latent profit potential?
China has so much dollars that they culd start wiping they arses with them :D
I am learning how to speak and write Chinese (it's hard!) i shit you not
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Ibram Ancille
NightCrew
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Posted - 2008.07.16 19:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Feng Schui
The US isn't a capitalist country, and with that being said, China is actually more capitalistic than we are . 10 ISK to the person that can list why
Regulation
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Bleeshtar
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Posted - 2008.07.16 19:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Feng Schui The US isn't a capitalist country, and with that being said, China is actually more capitalistic than we are . 10 ISK to the person that can list why
Well your half right.
Its not the captilists fault though seeing as how they meet resistance from the left at every turn they take.
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brinelan
Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.07.16 19:16:00 -
[11]
Werent 30 day gtc's up around 320 - 350 isk at one point? lets see, 320 * 2 = 640.. 350*2 = 700. Sounds like 700 is about right for 60 days. --------------------------
Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield |
Ralara
Caldari Vivicide
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Posted - 2008.07.16 19:24:00 -
[12]
Why don't you just pay with real money? --
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Darknesss
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.16 19:33:00 -
[13]
If people stop paying those prices and start deactivating their accounts the price will naturally come down.
Welcome to basic economics.
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Darius Falc
Gallente M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.07.16 19:33:00 -
[14]
Prices don't seem much higher than they were three weeks ago.
DF. ***********************************************
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.16 19:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Belmarduk The whole situation is very bad atm. As far as I reckon it will go like this:
Prices will keep rising The players who till now used isk to buy GTC will: a) quit or cancel accounts b) change to a different payment option
Then the demand will be lower and the GTC will start to crash..and I mean crash hard... This situation is in the long run bad for BOTH buyers and sellers.
Making 400-700 mio isk in 2 months JUST TO PAY the account is going to be too much for MOST buyers
Whats the point in working for isk just be able to pay the account to be able to work for the isk to be able........................
Sure there are some players who are so rich that they could pay 1 milliarde for 60 days - well I am not and most others neither... Greetings Belmarduk
Seriously, if you can't make 400M in 60 days, then quit. If you don't want to pay for playing EvE, then you have to put a little effort in instead. Since you don't have much money, I assume you have plenty of free time. A simple T2-fit Raven can be used to make 400M in 2 days. In fact you can make 2 billion in a couple of weeks, which is enough to pay for 10 months of play. Plus you'll have a load of LP to cash in for faction ammo and implants, which can get you more ISK.
When you get sick of missioning, make money trading. There are lots of opportunities there, although you'll need some starting capital (use 400M of your 2 bill haul to get a 60-day, use the other 1.5B to buy stuff to sell). With some thought and a little knowledge you can turn that 1.5B into about 2.0-2.5B easily, provided you're prepared to wait for it.
400M for 2 months is the same as 200M for 1 month, and it's not that long since 30-day cards were 200M or even more.
tl;dr: you suck at eve, and players set GTC ISK prices not CCP.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.07.16 20:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Feng Schui Edited by: Feng Schui on 16/07/2008 18:31:08
Originally by: Siddy laws of capitalism, you know not.
Pot, meet kettle.
The laws of capitalism also dictate that there is varying products for the consumer to choose from.
Before this fiasco, the GTC market was, for the most part, stable, and at a good equilibrium. However, after the changes went through, and stock started selling out fast, the equilibrium was shattered. At the moment, there is a hell of alot more demand than there is supply. Prices are rising.
However, the OP does have a point, where they will keep rising, then crash due to there being a severe lack of demand. Once this happens, people will start buying, and it will go full circle.
In my opinion, I highly doubt we will see market equilibrium again with GTC's, since we are talking about real money being involved. It would be interesting to see Dr. Whatshisnuts give his opinion about it though, since I only have had a small class in macroeconomics, not like I have a Ph.D or anything
Quote: Yep I suppose so - Works perfect if one looks at what is going on in the U.S. atm...
The US isn't a capitalist country, and with that being said, China is actually more capitalistic than we are . 10 ISK to the person that can list why
labor laws, and anti-monopoly laws(not like that means anything, look at any industry such as oil, coca-cola, car companies, microsoft, telephone companies, etc.). Actually, by subverting the rules by outsourcing is even more capitalist than china, cause you're selling your own country and soul out for a little better profit margin, at the cost of lots of people's livelyhoods.
At least china corps doesn't outsource and make its own country destitute to try to get a little more money for its ceos.
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Viqtoria
Caldari Groping Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.07.16 20:24:00 -
[17]
god damn fukken coca cola industry
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Alexios Komnenos
Minmatar Byzantine Holding Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.16 20:31:00 -
[18]
The GTC price increase happened because CCP wanted to make more money off isk sales. No other reason, else they'd have increased the price for other payment options.
While they preach at us on one hand about how isk farming/selling harms the game, they are profiting off isk farming/selling on the other.
The GTC price increase has already had very damaging effects on the game, most notably a certain demographic going after all high end moons in the game in order to continue to be able to afford the isk to buy cards all the time...
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RaTTuS
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.07.16 20:36:00 -
[19]
ccp don't make money off isk sales ... well not directly -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve, USERPROFILE
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Caldreean
Dawnwalkers
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Posted - 2008.07.16 20:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Alexios Komnenos The GTC price increase happened because CCP wanted to make more money off isk sales. No other reason, else they'd have increased the price for other payment options.
While they preach at us on one hand about how isk farming/selling harms the game, they are profiting off isk farming/selling on the other.
The GTC price increase has already had very damaging effects on the game, most notably a certain demographic going after all high end moons in the game in order to continue to be able to afford the isk to buy cards all the time...
Can I have some of what you are smoking?
CCP raised prices on GTCs because there is a middleman involved when us the customer buys them. That means (wait for it...) CCP mades less money off GTCs than they do from people who pay directly. So they fixed it.
The GTCs you see selling for above normal isk (all of them) is simply people trying to take advantage of a market that's just been shaken a bit. It will self-correct.
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Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.07.16 20:41:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Viqtoria god damn fukken coca cola industry
Im sure you've heard about the fact that coca-cola production creates deadly concentrations of byproducts that actually make it ILLEGAL to manufacture in the united states, so they go to some backwater country that has poor to no policing of this stuff, pollute the water until nearby farmers and tribes get killed off by it, then move on to another spot.
See hitchhikers guide to the galaxy on the subject of the guide's corporation tactics of leaving planets just before they are destroyed as an ironical correlation to the same thing being done today to real living people who are killed so you can drink that soda infused with high fructose corn syrup, which is processed from corn genetically modified to produce huge amounts of the sugar, which can only be processed by your liver (just like alcohol, hmm), while natural sugar can be processed by your blood. And you wonder why The U.S. has such high obesity rates and other health problems, such as liver failure.
I'm glad humans are ******ed and selfish, cause it means they wont last much longer.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.07.16 20:41:00 -
[22]
Well, prices in isk rise, because prices in real money rises. Either way, your real money subscription is essentially unchanged. You just have a little more effort for your FREE gametime.
*shrug*. If you can't afford an EVE sub, then perhaps you might want to consider that getting a job would be a good idea instead. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Alexios Komnenos
Minmatar Byzantine Holding Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.16 20:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: RaTTuS
ccp don't make money off isk sales ... well not directly
They do now, directly. GTC's now being more expensive than any other subscription method means that the premium above what the GTC should cost ($5) is direct profit via isk sale.
IMHO, this puts CCP in the same "moral" class as IGE and the other farmer companies, since they are basically now selling isk for dollars.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.07.16 20:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Alexios Komnenos
Originally by: RaTTuS
ccp don't make money off isk sales ... well not directly
They do now, directly. GTC's now being more expensive than any other subscription method means that the premium above what the GTC should cost ($5) is direct profit via isk sale.
IMHO, this puts CCP in the same "moral" class as IGE and the other farmer companies, since they are basically now selling isk for dollars.
Nope. What they are selling is subscription time!
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.16 21:03:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Alexios Komnenos
Originally by: RaTTuS
ccp don't make money off isk sales ... well not directly
They do now, directly. GTC's now being more expensive than any other subscription method means that the premium above what the GTC should cost ($5) is direct profit via isk sale.
IMHO, this puts CCP in the same "moral" class as IGE and the other farmer companies, since they are basically now selling isk for dollars.
I'm sorry, but I don't follow your logic there. I'm not disagreeing with you (yet), I'm just not quite sure how you get from A to B.
GTCs cost CCP more in admin overhead that direct-debiting a bank account. Why should they not charge more? Virtually every provider will charge a premium for this kind of service access compared to a "full member".
As for selling ISK... um, if that's what they wanted to do, what would stop them from doing just that? They can just go ahead and spawn as much as they like and sell it right here on their website. They have every legal and moral right to do so, and it would be vastly simpler and cheaper for them to do so than messing around with GTCs. What you and the other people make this accusation consistently fail to do is see the transaction from CCP's perspective: they sell GTCs for money, period. That's the only thing they do. No $/Euros = no GTC. You can offer them a billion trillion ISK and a Titan to carry it away in, and they will not credit a single minute to your account. What they do instead is allow you to sell them for ISK from other players. That might not seem like an important distinction to you - what do you care who gives you the ISK for your dollars, right? - but it makes a big difference to them. It's a little like the difference between paying someone to mow your lawn, and buying a slave to do it. Hey, you're paying money and receiving labour - what's the difference, right? But who you pay makes all the difference to the nature of the transaction.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
KapnKaboom
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.07.16 21:04:00 -
[26]
Look on the bright side. Maybe this will finally drive a final nail into the GTC coffin and eliminate this method of CCP sanctioned cheating in Eve by making it not worth the effort.
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.16 21:08:00 -
[27]
Originally by: KapnKaboom Look on the bright side. Maybe this will finally drive a final nail into the GTC coffin and eliminate this method of CCP sanctioned cheating in Eve by making it not worth the effort.
Plenty of people were paying these prices 6 months ago. Since 200M is far less than even a mediocre mission runner can make in a month, we're nowhere near the point you predict.
Disclaimer: I have never either bought or sold a GTC.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Xaen
Caldari Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.07.16 21:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ekrid
Originally by: Viqtoria god damn fukken coca cola industry
Im sure you've heard about the fact that coca-cola production creates deadly concentrations of byproducts that actually make it ILLEGAL to manufacture in the united states, so they go to some backwater country that has poor to no policing of this stuff, pollute the water until nearby farmers and tribes get killed off by it, then move on to another spot.
See hitchhikers guide to the galaxy on the subject of the guide's corporation tactics of leaving planets just before they are destroyed as an ironical correlation to the same thing being done today to real living people who are killed so you can drink that soda infused with high fructose corn syrup, which is processed from corn genetically modified to produce huge amounts of the sugar, which can only be processed by your liver (just like alcohol, hmm), while natural sugar can be processed by your blood. And you wonder why The U.S. has such high obesity rates and other health problems, such as liver failure.
I'm glad humans are ******ed and selfish, cause it means they wont last much longer.
Dude, did you know you're made of chemicals?! - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
bluebeyond
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.07.16 21:25:00 -
[29]
Edited by: bluebeyond on 16/07/2008 21:25:50
Originally by: brinelan Werent 30 day gtc's up around 320 - 350 isk at one point? lets see, 320 * 2 = 640.. 350*2 = 700. Sounds like 700 is about right for 60 days.
No
You could get 30 days as cheap as 150mill before CCP put this shite change into effect.
Impossible to run my four accounts on GTCs nowadays... Real kick in the teeth for some people.
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Pesky LaRue
Minmatar L.O.S.T. Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.07.16 22:00:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Alexios Komnenos
Originally by: RaTTuS
ccp don't make money off isk sales ... well not directly
They do now, directly. GTC's now being more expensive than any other subscription method means that the premium above what the GTC should cost ($5) is direct profit via isk sale.
IMHO, this puts CCP in the same "moral" class as IGE and the other farmer companies, since they are basically now selling isk for dollars.
not in the least. they didn't invent or promote the market for this, they're just managing the fallout as best they can.
a good example of this in the real world is probaly The Netherlands - years ago the police realised that they weren't going to be able to stop the trade in pot and nor was it worth the time/effort invested, so they decriminalised it. they don't grow it, they don't sell it and they don't really condone it, they just accept that people are going to do this anyway and give them a semi-legimized outlet that can be taxed and in some ways goverened and policed.
as for the other points - people need to realise that CCP are a corporation and as an entity, they're in this for no other reason to make money. The individuals working at CCP might have more altruistic reasons for working there, but EVE is a commodity and CCP are there to make every last penny off of it that they can.
does anyone REALLY think McDonalds are in business because, well, oh my gosh, they just LOVE serving people good food and it makes them all warm and fuzzy inside?
wake up, guys - the GTC's are 'premium service' and you pay more for it because of that simple fact. don't like the price hikes then get a credit card/debit card/job or whatever it takes and pay a monthly sub.
This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++ |
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