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Belmarduk
Amarr
de Prieure
Four Elements
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:06:00 -
[1]
The whole situation is very bad atm.
As far as I reckon it will go like this:
Prices will keep rising
The players who till now used isk to buy GTC will:
a) quit or cancel accounts
b) change to a different payment option
Then the demand will be lower and the GTC will start to crash..and I mean crash hard...
This situation is in the long run bad for BOTH buyers and sellers.
Making 400-700 mio isk in 2 months JUST TO PAY the account is going to be too much for MOST buyers
Whats the point in working for isk just be able to pay the account to be able to work for the isk to be able........................
Sure there are some players who are so rich that they could pay 1 milliarde for 60 days - well I am not and most others neither...
Greetings Belmarduk
CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
|
Siddy
Minmatar
Gay Nationalist Association of Amamake
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:11:00 -
[2]
laws of capitalism, you know not.
 |
Belmarduk
Amarr
de Prieure
Four Elements
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 18:24:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Siddy
laws of capitalism, you know not.
Yep I suppose so - Works perfect if one looks at what is going on in the U.S. atm...
CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
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Feng Schui
Minmatar
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:28:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Feng Schui on 16/07/2008 18:31:08
Originally by: Siddy
laws of capitalism, you know not.
Pot, meet kettle.
The laws of capitalism also dictate that there is varying products for the consumer to choose from.
Before this fiasco, the GTC market was, for the most part, stable, and at a good equilibrium. However, after the changes went through, and stock started selling out fast, the equilibrium was shattered. At the moment, there is a hell of alot more demand than there is supply. Prices are rising.
However, the OP does have a point, where they will keep rising, then crash due to there being a severe lack of demand. Once this happens, people will start buying, and it will go full circle.
In my opinion, I highly doubt we will see market equilibrium again with GTC's, since we are talking about real money being involved. It would be interesting to see Dr. Whatshisnuts give his opinion about it though, since I only have had a small class in macroeconomics, not like I have a Ph.D or anything 
Quote:
Yep I suppose so - Works perfect if one looks at what is going on in the U.S. atm...
The US isn't a capitalist country, and with that being said, China is actually more capitalistic than we are  . 10 ISK to the person that can list why 
Project:Gank
Pilgrim Guide
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Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:30:00 -
[5]
The current prices are still effectively lower than they were back in November.
Give it sometime to stabalize.
Don't forget that alot, if not most, GTC are bought by players maintaining additional accounts.
If GTC prices rise too high, those secondary accounts will simply be suspended until prices return to more reasonable levels.
Supply and demand will naturally work to balance itself out. It just takes time for it to return to an equalibrium since the balance was changed.
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Viqtoria
Caldari
Groping Hand Social Club
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 18:50:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Feng Schui
The US isn't a capitalist country, and with that being said, China is actually more capitalistic than we are . 10 ISK to the person that can list why
is it because the west's economy is highly service based now, mostly self indulgent bullshit, and in china masses of capital is being invested to exploit the ginormous latent profit potential?
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Siddy
Minmatar
Gay Nationalist Association of Amamake
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 18:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Viqtoria
Originally by: Feng Schui
The US isn't a capitalist country, and with that being said, China is actually more capitalistic than we are . 10 ISK to the person that can list why
is it because the west's economy is highly service based now, mostly self indulgent bullshit, and in china masses of capital is being invested to exploit the ginormous latent profit potential?
China has so much dollars that they culd start wiping they arses with them :D
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Viqtoria
Caldari
Groping Hand Social Club
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 18:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Siddy
Originally by: Viqtoria
Originally by: Feng Schui
The US isn't a capitalist country, and with that being said, China is actually more capitalistic than we are . 10 ISK to the person that can list why
is it because the west's economy is highly service based now, mostly self indulgent bullshit, and in china masses of capital is being invested to exploit the ginormous latent profit potential?
China has so much dollars that they culd start wiping they arses with them :D
I am learning how to speak and write Chinese (it's hard!) i shit you not
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Ibram Ancille
NightCrew
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 19:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Feng Schui
The US isn't a capitalist country, and with that being said, China is actually more capitalistic than we are . 10 ISK to the person that can list why
Regulation
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Bleeshtar
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 19:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Feng Schui
The US isn't a capitalist country, and with that being said, China is actually more capitalistic than we are . 10 ISK to the person that can list why
Well your half right.
Its not the captilists fault though seeing as how they meet resistance from the left at every turn they take.
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brinelan
Caldari
Victory Not Vengeance
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.07.16 19:16:00 -
[11]
Werent 30 day gtc's up around 320 - 350 isk at one point? lets see, 320 * 2 = 640.. 350*2 = 700. Sounds like 700 is about right for 60 days.
--------------------------
Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield |
Ralara
Caldari
Vivicide
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 19:24:00 -
[12]
Why don't you just pay with real money?
--
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Darknesss
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.16 19:33:00 -
[13]
If people stop paying those prices and start deactivating their accounts the price will naturally come down.
Welcome to basic economics.
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Darius Falc
Gallente
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 19:33:00 -
[14]
Prices don't seem much higher than they were three weeks ago.
DF.
***********************************************
 |
Malcanis
We are Legend
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 19:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Belmarduk
The whole situation is very bad atm.
As far as I reckon it will go like this:
Prices will keep rising
The players who till now used isk to buy GTC will:
a) quit or cancel accounts
b) change to a different payment option
Then the demand will be lower and the GTC will start to crash..and I mean crash hard...
This situation is in the long run bad for BOTH buyers and sellers.
Making 400-700 mio isk in 2 months JUST TO PAY the account is going to be too much for MOST buyers
Whats the point in working for isk just be able to pay the account to be able to work for the isk to be able........................
Sure there are some players who are so rich that they could pay 1 milliarde for 60 days - well I am not and most others neither...
Greetings Belmarduk
Seriously, if you can't make 400M in 60 days, then quit. If you don't want to pay for playing EvE, then you have to put a little effort in instead. Since you don't have much money, I assume you have plenty of free time. A simple T2-fit Raven can be used to make 400M in 2 days. In fact you can make 2 billion in a couple of weeks, which is enough to pay for 10 months of play. Plus you'll have a load of LP to cash in for faction ammo and implants, which can get you more ISK.
When you get sick of missioning, make money trading. There are lots of opportunities there, although you'll need some starting capital (use 400M of your 2 bill haul to get a 60-day, use the other 1.5B to buy stuff to sell). With some thought and a little knowledge you can turn that 1.5B into about 2.0-2.5B easily, provided you're prepared to wait for it.
400M for 2 months is the same as 200M for 1 month, and it's not that long since 30-day cards were 200M or even more.
tl;dr: you suck at eve, and players set GTC ISK prices not CCP.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Ekrid
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 20:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Feng Schui
Edited by: Feng Schui on 16/07/2008 18:31:08
Originally by: Siddy
laws of capitalism, you know not.
Pot, meet kettle.
The laws of capitalism also dictate that there is varying products for the consumer to choose from.
Before this fiasco, the GTC market was, for the most part, stable, and at a good equilibrium. However, after the changes went through, and stock started selling out fast, the equilibrium was shattered. At the moment, there is a hell of alot more demand than there is supply. Prices are rising.
However, the OP does have a point, where they will keep rising, then crash due to there being a severe lack of demand. Once this happens, people will start buying, and it will go full circle.
In my opinion, I highly doubt we will see market equilibrium again with GTC's, since we are talking about real money being involved. It would be interesting to see Dr. Whatshisnuts give his opinion about it though, since I only have had a small class in macroeconomics, not like I have a Ph.D or anything
Quote:
Yep I suppose so - Works perfect if one looks at what is going on in the U.S. atm...
The US isn't a capitalist country, and with that being said, China is actually more capitalistic than we are . 10 ISK to the person that can list why
labor laws, and anti-monopoly laws(not like that means anything, look at any industry such as oil, coca-cola, car companies, microsoft, telephone companies, etc.). Actually, by subverting the rules by outsourcing is even more capitalist than china, cause you're selling your own country and soul out for a little better profit margin, at the cost of lots of people's livelyhoods.
At least china corps doesn't outsource and make its own country destitute to try to get a little more money for its ceos.
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Viqtoria
Caldari
Groping Hand Social Club
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 20:24:00 -
[17]
god damn fukken coca cola industry 
|
Alexios Komnenos
Minmatar
Byzantine Holding Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 20:31:00 -
[18]
The GTC price increase happened because CCP wanted to make more money off isk sales. No other reason, else they'd have increased the price for other payment options.
While they preach at us on one hand about how isk farming/selling harms the game, they are profiting off isk farming/selling on the other.
The GTC price increase has already had very damaging effects on the game, most notably a certain demographic going after all high end moons in the game in order to continue to be able to afford the isk to buy cards all the time...
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RaTTuS
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.07.16 20:36:00 -
[19]
ccp don't make money off isk sales ...
well not directly
--
BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve,
USERPROFILE
|
Caldreean
Dawnwalkers
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 20:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Alexios Komnenos
The GTC price increase happened because CCP wanted to make more money off isk sales. No other reason, else they'd have increased the price for other payment options.
While they preach at us on one hand about how isk farming/selling harms the game, they are profiting off isk farming/selling on the other.
The GTC price increase has already had very damaging effects on the game, most notably a certain demographic going after all high end moons in the game in order to continue to be able to afford the isk to buy cards all the time...
Can I have some of what you are smoking?
CCP raised prices on GTCs because there is a middleman involved when us the customer buys them. That means (wait for it...) CCP mades less money off GTCs than they do from people who pay directly. So they fixed it.
The GTCs you see selling for above normal isk (all of them) is simply people trying to take advantage of a market that's just been shaken a bit. It will self-correct.
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Ekrid
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 20:41:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Viqtoria
god damn fukken coca cola industry
Im sure you've heard about the fact that coca-cola production creates deadly concentrations of byproducts that actually make it ILLEGAL to manufacture in the united states, so they go to some backwater country that has poor to no policing of this stuff, pollute the water until nearby farmers and tribes get killed off by it, then move on to another spot.
See hitchhikers guide to the galaxy on the subject of the guide's corporation tactics of leaving planets just before they are destroyed as an ironical correlation to the same thing being done today to real living people who are killed so you can drink that soda infused with high fructose corn syrup, which is processed from corn genetically modified to produce huge amounts of the sugar, which can only be processed by your liver (just like alcohol, hmm), while natural sugar can be processed by your blood. And you wonder why The U.S. has such high obesity rates and other health problems, such as liver failure.
I'm glad humans are ******ed and selfish, cause it means they wont last much longer.
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 20:41:00 -
[22]
Well, prices in isk rise, because prices in real money rises.
Either way, your real money subscription is essentially unchanged. You just have a little more effort for your FREE gametime.
*shrug*. If you can't afford an EVE sub, then perhaps you might want to consider that getting a job would be a good idea instead.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Alexios Komnenos
Minmatar
Byzantine Holding Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 20:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: RaTTuS
ccp don't make money off isk sales ...
well not directly
They do now, directly. GTC's now being more expensive than any other subscription method means that the premium above what the GTC should cost ($5) is direct profit via isk sale.
IMHO, this puts CCP in the same "moral" class as IGE and the other farmer companies, since they are basically now selling isk for dollars.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 20:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Alexios Komnenos
Originally by: RaTTuS
ccp don't make money off isk sales ...
well not directly
They do now, directly. GTC's now being more expensive than any other subscription method means that the premium above what the GTC should cost ($5) is direct profit via isk sale.
IMHO, this puts CCP in the same "moral" class as IGE and the other farmer companies, since they are basically now selling isk for dollars.
Nope. What they are selling is subscription time!
Originally by: Dianabolic
Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Malcanis
We are Legend
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 21:03:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Alexios Komnenos
Originally by: RaTTuS
ccp don't make money off isk sales ...
well not directly
They do now, directly. GTC's now being more expensive than any other subscription method means that the premium above what the GTC should cost ($5) is direct profit via isk sale.
IMHO, this puts CCP in the same "moral" class as IGE and the other farmer companies, since they are basically now selling isk for dollars.
I'm sorry, but I don't follow your logic there. I'm not disagreeing with you (yet), I'm just not quite sure how you get from A to B.
GTCs cost CCP more in admin overhead that direct-debiting a bank account. Why should they not charge more? Virtually every provider will charge a premium for this kind of service access compared to a "full member".
As for selling ISK... um, if that's what they wanted to do, what would stop them from doing just that? They can just go ahead and spawn as much as they like and sell it right here on their website. They have every legal and moral right to do so, and it would be vastly simpler and cheaper for them to do so than messing around with GTCs. What you and the other people make this accusation consistently fail to do is see the transaction from CCP's perspective: they sell GTCs for money, period. That's the only thing they do. No $/Euros = no GTC. You can offer them a billion trillion ISK and a Titan to carry it away in, and they will not credit a single minute to your account.
What they do instead is allow you to sell them for ISK from other players. That might not seem like an important distinction to you - what do you care who gives you the ISK for your dollars, right? - but it makes a big difference to them. It's a little like the difference between paying someone to mow your lawn, and buying a slave to do it. Hey, you're paying money and receiving labour - what's the difference, right? But who you pay makes all the difference to the nature of the transaction.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
KapnKaboom
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 21:04:00 -
[26]
Look on the bright side. Maybe this will finally drive a final nail into the GTC coffin and eliminate this method of CCP sanctioned cheating in Eve by making it not worth the effort. 
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Malcanis
We are Legend
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 21:08:00 -
[27]
Originally by: KapnKaboom
Look on the bright side. Maybe this will finally drive a final nail into the GTC coffin and eliminate this method of CCP sanctioned cheating in Eve by making it not worth the effort.
Plenty of people were paying these prices 6 months ago. Since 200M is far less than even a mediocre mission runner can make in a month, we're nowhere near the point you predict.
Disclaimer: I have never either bought or sold a GTC.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Xaen
Caldari
Caritas.
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 21:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ekrid
Originally by: Viqtoria
god damn fukken coca cola industry
Im sure you've heard about the fact that coca-cola production creates deadly concentrations of byproducts that actually make it ILLEGAL to manufacture in the united states, so they go to some backwater country that has poor to no policing of this stuff, pollute the water until nearby farmers and tribes get killed off by it, then move on to another spot.
See hitchhikers guide to the galaxy on the subject of the guide's corporation tactics of leaving planets just before they are destroyed as an ironical correlation to the same thing being done today to real living people who are killed so you can drink that soda infused with high fructose corn syrup, which is processed from corn genetically modified to produce huge amounts of the sugar, which can only be processed by your liver (just like alcohol, hmm), while natural sugar can be processed by your blood. And you wonder why The U.S. has such high obesity rates and other health problems, such as liver failure.
I'm glad humans are ******ed and selfish, cause it means they wont last much longer.
Dude, did you know you're made of chemicals?!
-
Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
bluebeyond
MicroFunks
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 21:25:00 -
[29]
Edited by: bluebeyond on 16/07/2008 21:25:50
Originally by: brinelan
Werent 30 day gtc's up around 320 - 350 isk at one point? lets see, 320 * 2 = 640.. 350*2 = 700. Sounds like 700 is about right for 60 days.
No
You could get 30 days as cheap as 150mill before CCP put this shite change into effect.
Impossible to run my four accounts on GTCs nowadays... Real kick in the teeth for some people.
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Pesky LaRue
Minmatar
L.O.S.T. Defence Force
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 22:00:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Alexios Komnenos
Originally by: RaTTuS
ccp don't make money off isk sales ...
well not directly
They do now, directly. GTC's now being more expensive than any other subscription method means that the premium above what the GTC should cost ($5) is direct profit via isk sale.
IMHO, this puts CCP in the same "moral" class as IGE and the other farmer companies, since they are basically now selling isk for dollars.
not in the least. they didn't invent or promote the market for this, they're just managing the fallout as best they can.
a good example of this in the real world is probaly The Netherlands - years ago the police realised that they weren't going to be able to stop the trade in pot and nor was it worth the time/effort invested, so they decriminalised it. they don't grow it, they don't sell it and they don't really condone it, they just accept that people are going to do this anyway and give them a semi-legimized outlet that can be taxed and in some ways goverened and policed.
as for the other points - people need to realise that CCP are a corporation and as an entity, they're in this for no other reason to make money. The individuals working at CCP might have more altruistic reasons for working there, but EVE is a commodity and CCP are there to make every last penny off of it that they can.
does anyone REALLY think McDonalds are in business because, well, oh my gosh, they just LOVE serving people good food and it makes them all warm and fuzzy inside?
wake up, guys - the GTC's are 'premium service' and you pay more for it because of that simple fact. don't like the price hikes then get a credit card/debit card/job or whatever it takes and pay a monthly sub.
This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations
Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah
Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon!
++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++ |
|
Ekrid
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 22:05:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: Ekrid
Originally by: Viqtoria
god damn fukken coca cola industry
Im sure you've heard about the fact that coca-cola production creates deadly concentrations of byproducts that actually make it ILLEGAL to manufacture in the united states, so they go to some backwater country that has poor to no policing of this stuff, pollute the water until nearby farmers and tribes get killed off by it, then move on to another spot.
See hitchhikers guide to the galaxy on the subject of the guide's corporation tactics of leaving planets just before they are destroyed as an ironical correlation to the same thing being done today to real living people who are killed so you can drink that soda infused with high fructose corn syrup, which is processed from corn genetically modified to produce huge amounts of the sugar, which can only be processed by your liver (just like alcohol, hmm), while natural sugar can be processed by your blood. And you wonder why The U.S. has such high obesity rates and other health problems, such as liver failure.
I'm glad humans are ******ed and selfish, cause it means they wont last much longer.
Dude, did you know you're made of chemicals?!
AFAIK, im not made of mercury and lead. And also AFAIK, its a well known fact that lead and mercury ingestion is destructive and fatal in higher doses, to your body.
but you're an idiot troll so..
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Ekrid
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 22:06:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Pesky LaRue
Originally by: Alexios Komnenos
Originally by: RaTTuS
ccp don't make money off isk sales ...
well not directly
They do now, directly. GTC's now being more expensive than any other subscription method means that the premium above what the GTC should cost ($5) is direct profit via isk sale.
IMHO, this puts CCP in the same "moral" class as IGE and the other farmer companies, since they are basically now selling isk for dollars.
not in the least. they didn't invent or promote the market for this, they're just managing the fallout as best they can.
a good example of this in the real world is probaly The Netherlands - years ago the police realised that they weren't going to be able to stop the trade in pot and nor was it worth the time/effort invested, so they decriminalised it. they don't grow it, they don't sell it and they don't really condone it, they just accept that people are going to do this anyway and give them a semi-legimized outlet that can be taxed and in some ways goverened and policed.
as for the other points - people need to realise that CCP are a corporation and as an entity, they're in this for no other reason to make money. The individuals working at CCP might have more altruistic reasons for working there, but EVE is a commodity and CCP are there to make every last penny off of it that they can.
does anyone REALLY think McDonalds are in business because, well, oh my gosh, they just LOVE serving people good food and it makes them all warm and fuzzy inside?
wake up, guys - the GTC's are 'premium service' and you pay more for it because of that simple fact. don't like the price hikes then get a credit card/debit card/job or whatever it takes and pay a monthly sub.
So, does that mean WoW GTCs are a "premium service' too? cause thats what bliz offers, at the same rate as paying by CC. idiot much?
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Hieronimus Rex
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Posted - 2008.07.16 22:13:00 -
[33]
tl;dr - GTC market is fine, stop whining. Prices are the same in USD/ISK terms as they were before.
OP - 400-700mil is a rather large range no?
Feng Schui - I wouldn't call a market where 90d GTCs sell from 350mil-400mil "equilibrium"...prices are all over the place. The only time we really had equilibrium was when the unsecure methods was legit, so people traded GTCs and there was actually a single equilibrium price.
GTC sellers are probably lazy, since they can't even make enough ISK ingame to support themselves, so I don't see why they would try too hard to get more ISK for their $. I guess now they're realizing that they can, but really they're only charging a bit more ISK/$...before it was 350mil/$30, now its 400mil/$35.
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Pesky LaRue
Minmatar
L.O.S.T. Defence Force
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 22:15:00 -
[34]
Originally by: EkridSo, does that mean WoW GTCs are a "premium service' too? cause thats what bliz offers, at the same rate as paying by CC. idiot much?[/quote
wait, is CCP being run by Blizzard now, or are you just happily comparing apples to oranges?
funny, for someone who isn't making any valid points, you just LOVE throwing the word "idiot" around, don't you? then again, you probably don't get to call many people that in real life, so have at it :)
This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations
Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah
Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon!
++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++ |
Alexa Komnenos
Minmatar
Byzantine Holding Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 22:18:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Pesky LaRue
Originally by: Alexios Komnenos
Originally by: RaTTuS
ccp don't make money off isk sales ...
well not directly
They do now, directly. GTC's now being more expensive than any other subscription method means that the premium above what the GTC should cost ($5) is direct profit via isk sale.
IMHO, this puts CCP in the same "moral" class as IGE and the other farmer companies, since they are basically now selling isk for dollars.
not in the least. they didn't invent or promote the market for this, they're just managing the fallout as best they can.
a good example of this in the real world is probaly The Netherlands - years ago the police realised that they weren't going to be able to stop the trade in pot and nor was it worth the time/effort invested, so they decriminalised it. they don't grow it, they don't sell it and they don't really condone it, they just accept that people are going to do this anyway and give them a semi-legimized outlet that can be taxed and in some ways goverened and policed.
as for the other points - people need to realise that CCP are a corporation and as an entity, they're in this for no other reason to make money. The individuals working at CCP might have more altruistic reasons for working there, but EVE is a commodity and CCP are there to make every last penny off of it that they can.
does anyone REALLY think McDonalds are in business because, well, oh my gosh, they just LOVE serving people good food and it makes them all warm and fuzzy inside?
wake up, guys - the GTC's are 'premium service' and you pay more for it because of that simple fact. don't like the price hikes then get a credit card/debit card/job or whatever it takes and pay a monthly sub.
Premium service?
How?
CCP's GTC's aren't even... CARDS. All they have to do to produce them is have their computer generate them and literally e-mail them to their re-sellers.
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Pesky LaRue
Minmatar
L.O.S.T. Defence Force
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 22:26:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Alexa Komnenos
Premium service?
How?
CCP's GTC's aren't even... CARDS. All they have to do to produce them is have their computer generate them and literally e-mail them to their re-sellers.
read it again, i put 'quotation marks' around it to denote i was using someone else's term, not justifying the practice.
the point being made (in this case by others, not by me) is that the GTC's are there as a service above and what they would otherwise provide, they're not a mandatory purchase that we ALL have to buy and are thereby ALL being milked by CCP for. GTC's weren't available at launch, IIR they were presented as an alternate - legitimate - method of payment after much fuss had been made about macroers.
again, no one HAS to buy a GTC, it's possible to pay for this like i pay for most other internet-tied services - with a credit card.
now, i'm sure there are always the 'i can't get a credit card because...' crowd, but again, THOSE are the ones that need to take advantage of a 'premium service.' if you're in the US and you can't get a bank account there are services that'll cash checks for you - and guess what? they charge you more for that privilege. this may screw the "i can't get a bank account because..." crowd, but again, that's not anyone's fault but their own.
by the way...you DO know what premium actually means, right? it means "the excess value of one form of money over another of the same nominal value" so these cards are almost to the letter the definition of a "premium service" - if you had it in your mind i was saying "premium" as in "better", then you're sadly mistaken.
This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations
Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah
Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon!
++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++ |
Ralara
Caldari
Vivicide
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Posted - 2008.07.16 22:53:00 -
[37]
Why don't you just pay with real life cash?
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Sinulan Kahn
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.16 23:31:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Bleeshtar
Originally by: Feng Schui
The US isn't a capitalist country, and with that being said, China is actually more capitalistic than we are . 10 ISK to the person that can list why
Well your half right.
Its not the captilists fault though seeing as how they meet resistance from the left at every turn they take.
Well, i have lived to witness the 15nth sign of the Apocalypse, a conservative praising China for its capitalist ethos.
Just 14 more signs to go before we're really fscked.
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Feng Schui
Minmatar
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.07.16 23:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex
Feng Schui - I wouldn't call a market where 90d GTCs sell from 350mil-400mil "equilibrium"...prices are all over the place. The only time we really had equilibrium was when the unsecure methods was legit, so people traded GTCs and there was actually a single equilibrium price.
I would have to semi-disagree actually. Pure equilibrium? No, since prices did fluctuate, however, they didn't go +/- 200m.
For the most part, people sold them for 350-400 mill, most of the time (that i saw), 380 mill for 90 days. The same could have said for the 30d cards. The reason being, was the the supply met the demand. Even after the secure method went into effect, the changes didn't change all that much. Now though...
Pre-change, the market was as stable as it could get considering (equilibrium). Now however, its crap.
Project:Gank
Pilgrim Guide
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Hieronimus Rex
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Posted - 2008.07.16 23:51:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Feng Schui
I would have to semi-disagree actually. Pure equilibrium? No, since prices did fluctuate, however, they didn't go +/- 200m.
For the most part, people sold them for 350-400 mill, most of the time (that i saw), 380 mill for 90 days. The same could have said for the 30d cards. The reason being, was the the supply met the demand. Even after the secure method went into effect, the changes didn't change all that much. Now though...
Pre-change, the market was as stable as it could get considering (equilibrium). Now however, its crap.
Have you looked at the GTC sell forums at all? The huge majority of sell orders are 380-420mil (about the same size spread as before).
Originally by: Pesky LaRue
the point being made (in this case by others, not by me) is that the GTC's are there as a service above and what they would otherwise provide, they're not a mandatory purchase that we ALL have to buy and are thereby ALL being milked by CCP for. GTC's weren't available at launch, IIR they were presented as an alternate - legitimate - method of payment after much fuss had been made about macroers.
I think its sort of a false dichotomy... GTCs are part of EVE just like, say, Amarr ships. CCP would **** a lot of people off by removing the GTC trade, just as they would **** a lot of people off by removing amarr ships (well, maybe not as much).
If you read the ToS CCP is actually obligated to do basically nothing. They can terminate your service at will, without reason or notice with no reimbursement. The biggest incentive they have not to is all the future payments you are giving them.
Furthermore, I would hardly call a methods CCP uses to generate additional revenue a "premium service" by any definition of the term.
Originally by: Malcanis
What they do instead is allow you to sell them for ISK from other players. That might not seem like an important distinction to you - what do you care who gives you the ISK for your dollars, right? - but it makes a big difference to them.
IGE does this too...it allows you to buy ISK from other players. The only difference is that instead of CCP capturing the USD, IGE does. That's no good for CCP at all, so they attempt to capture 100% of the USD going towards buying other players' ISK.
Not saying it's a bad thing, but in some sense CCP and IGE are in the same boat...trying to divert USD to themselves in exchange for other players' ISK.
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.07.16 23:55:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Siddy
laws of capitalism, you know not.
Hey Yoda, go back to your slimy mudhole (without an internet connection). 
Black Hand.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.17 00:10:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex
IGE does this too...it allows you to buy ISK from other players. The only difference is that instead of CCP capturing the USD, IGE does. That's no good for CCP at all, so they attempt to capture 100% of the USD going towards buying other players' ISK.
Not saying it's a bad thing, but in some sense CCP and IGE are in the same boat...trying to divert USD to themselves in exchange for other players' ISK.
Lol. So do you work for an ISK seller or do you just buy from them?
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Hieronimus Rex
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Posted - 2008.07.17 00:15:00 -
[43]
Originally by: KapnKaboom
Look on the bright side. Maybe this will finally drive a final nail into the GTC coffin and eliminate this method of CCP sanctioned cheating in Eve by making it not worth the effort.
Wow yeah I really hope CCP chooses to voluntarily reduce its revenues....great business decision there. I don't see how a voluntary, non-coercive transaction between two parties in a game can be "cheating." I don't see how being unable/unwilling to spend USD on ISK makes it "cheating" when other people are able/willing.
Originally by: Ekrid
soda infused with high fructose corn syrup, which is processed from corn genetically modified to produce huge amounts of the sugar, which can only be processed by your liver (just like alcohol, hmm), while natural sugar can be processed by your blood. And you wonder why The U.S. has such high obesity rates and other health problems, such as liver failure.
I'm glad humans are ******ed and selfish, cause it means they wont last much longer.
The only reason they use HFCS is because the stupid corn farmers in the US whine and whine and whine until the government taxes sugar imports, so they can get more revenue by growing corn (as companies inevitably substitute HFCS for sugar). So you have nobody to blame for that but the US's spendthrift federal government.
Being ******ed and selfish has gotten us this far (pop 6bil, top predator on the planet, etc), so we must be doing something right.
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Napro
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.17 00:19:00 -
[44]
Oh please please don't cancel your 5 alts, making real players on single accounts enjoy the game more and have actual value.
Please, no! Think of the children
If you don't like them , don't use them.
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RedClaws
Amarr
Dragon's Rage
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.07.17 00:35:00 -
[45]
I started paying for my 2 accounts with RL money from this month on. I only ever paid for the first few months of my first account. 700mil every 2 months is just a tiny bit too much for me Mainly cause I don't play enough and spin my ship around too much.
I used to pay 300mil a month though and that wasn't too bad, its only 100mil difference but the thing is that you have to pay it in 1 time now. It makes things a lot harder.
I still think it's worth it though but I wouldn't want to be somebody with more than 2 accounts right now.
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.17 06:57:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex
IGE does this too...it allows you to buy ISK |