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Author	Topic
FinnAgain Zero	Posted - 2008.07.18 21:02:00 - [31] Just so we're clear, we don't have to "take" conspiracy mongering lunacy that sees bias behind every corner and a plot to destroy EVE... via fan 'zine. It doesn't hurt our feelings. It doesn't make us engage in soul-searching at 3 a.m. on lonely nights. We can publish a fan 'zine and still laugh at emorage. Multitasking is awesome. ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, youÆre going to be Mister Finnagain! Comeday morm and, O, youÆre vine! SenddayÆs eve and, ah, youÆre vinegar! Hahahaha, Mister
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.18 21:03:00 - [32] Originally by: FinnAgain Zero Just so we're clear, we don't have to "take" conspiracy mongering lunacy that sees bias behind every corner and a plot to destroy EVE... via fan 'zine. It doesn't hurt our feelings. It doesn't make us engage in soul-searching at 3 a.m. on lonely nights. We can publish a fan 'zine and still laugh at emorage. Multitasking is awesome. I suppose this is another one of your "We don't care what you say la-la-la" posts, huh? Have you even read your own article? You're pretty stupid for a pretend news man. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
FinnAgain Zero	Posted - 2008.07.18 21:38:00 - [33] So, to sum up: it really burns you up when anonymous strangers on the internet have minds of their own and won't do what you tell them, especially when you're factually incorrect and your arguments are irrational? Sorry to hear that. Keep demanding that we do what you tell us. It's got to work sooner or later. Maybe if you call us more names. ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, youÆre going to be Mister Finnagain! Comeday morm and, O, youÆre vine! SenddayÆs eve and, ah, youÆre vinegar! Hahahaha, Mister
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.18 21:50:00 - [34] Originally by: FinnAgain Zero So, to sum up: it really burns you up when anonymous strangers on the internet have minds of their own and won't do what you tell them, especially when you're factually incorrect and your arguments are irrational? Sorry to hear that. What was factually incorrect? Are you saying that everything in your article is God's truth and I am bad to question it? Originally by: FinnAgain Zero Keep demanding that we do what you tell us. It's got to work sooner or later. Maybe if you call us more names. As I recall I haven't actually demanded anything. I have asked you to please accept my critisizm as such, and not as attacks on your writer. You responded by claiming I was a conspiracy nut that was emo-raging. I thought your reply was stupid, and I said as much. I was thinking about actually speaking to people to see what they thought about your little magazine, and maybe even write an article for you to debunk the one I critisized. Then I thought that your tripe of a magazine didn't deserve as much, and I'd do my best to make sure people know that you not only write lies, but you're actually proud of it. Now I've realised I don't have to do any of the former. You've pretty much buried yourself. GG. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Kneebone	Posted - 2008.07.18 22:44:00 - [35] Originally by: Ki An As I recall I haven't actually demanded anything. I have asked you to please accept my critisizm as such, and not as attacks on your writer. You responded by claiming I was a conspiracy nut that was emo-raging. I thought your reply was stupid, and I said as much. I was thinking about actually speaking to people to see what they thought about your little magazine, and maybe even write an article for you to debunk the one I critisized. Then I thought that your tripe of a magazine didn't deserve as much, and I'd do my best to make sure people know that you not only write lies, but you're actually proud of it. Now I've realised I don't have to do any of the former. You've pretty much buried yourself. GG. So write the article and debunk it! In the time it took you to respond to these threads you could have written the piece you thought about, submitted it, etc. And the pride doesn't come from writing truths, lies, opinions or whatever else pops into our minds, the pride comes from actually doing it.
Atlas Oracle Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.07.18 22:46:00 - [36] Originally by: FinnAgain Zero Just so we're clear, we don't have to "take" conspiracy mongering lunacy that sees bias behind every corner and a plot to destroy EVE... via fan 'zine. It doesn't hurt our feelings. It doesn't make us engage in soul-searching at 3 a.m. on lonely nights. We can publish a fan 'zine and still laugh at emorage. Multitasking is awesome. great marketing tactics. i really want to read your stuff now.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.18 22:51:00 - [37] Originally by: Kneebone So write the article and debunk it! In the time it took you to respond to these threads you could have written the piece you thought about, submitted it, etc. Like I said, I'd rather stay away from your little pretend newspaper in the future. That's the thing about capitalizm. People can chose where they get their fill of things. You don't respond well to critique of your articles. As such, I'll chose not to read you. Also, your articles suck. Originally by: Kneebone And the pride doesn't come from writing truths, lies, opinions or whatever else pops into our minds, the pride comes from actually doing it. Yeah, that pretty much sums it up for me. Feel proud about your rep's behaviour in this thread. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.07.18 22:55:00 - [38] @ Ki-An's long winded rants. At least you can't say the guy has spunk. Or sass. You can't the guy doesn't have some form of sass. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
FinnAgain Zero	Posted - 2008.07.18 23:20:00 - [39] Edited by: FinnAgain Zero on 18/07/2008 23:23:51 Originally by: Kneebone So write the article and debunk it! In the time it took you to respond to these threads you could have written the piece you thought about, submitted it, etc. The problem is, there's really nothing to "debunk". That CCP, objectively, published player news that was clearly pro-BoB propaganda is beyond dispute. That we stated, correctly, that by posting it CCP was posting pro-BoB propaganda and effectively taking BoB's side and repeating their rhetoric is, likewise, not really debatable. Even if CCP didn't mean to do that, that's what happens when each and every single EVE player who signs in is met by "The Max Age" complete with 100% uncritical acceptance of quotes directly from Shrike himself. The only debunking the rage-filled boy conducted was of, quite frankly, conspiracy theories which he has to invent first, such as the Tribune publishing an article that "was nothing else than a propaganda piece for a current 0.0 conflict". I fail to see how saying that CCP should remain impartial and not publish player news articles that obviously favor one alliance, is propaganda. In fact, we went out of our way to publish another article pointing out that Bob were talented, dedicated, well motivated and well backed by their industrial base. Some people, it seems, are reacting quite strongly to the mockery used to point out the absurdity of the player news article's position. Denying that BoB is somehow the defining feature of EVE is not propaganda for or against any alliance at all. It's just pointing out silly rhetoric. I suppose, of course, that someone could argue against the conventional EVE wisdom that you can only destroy an alliance by destroying its morale, but that'd be tough. Arguing for BoB being able to "control" people without controlling their space or their actions would be a much harder argument, but I suppose someone could make it. Still, do you think he ever had anything to contribute other than "You are wrong, do what I tell you and don't talk back!" Originally by: Kneebone And the pride doesn't come from writing truths, lies, opinions or whatever else pops into our minds, the pride comes from actually doing it. The funny thing, of course, is that he's alleged lies while pointing out... none. That while making numerous demands and then playing all innocent. It's very weird for someone to continually demand that we do some things and refrain from doing others, and then act as if he wasn't actually making demands. I'm not quite sure what those type of people actually believe the word "criticism" means. Someone offers their view, we think about it (and probably thought about it long before we were challenged), decide to trust our own judgment, and don't do what they're demanding. Then they say that we can't "take criticism". I don't even know what the heck they think that means. Does "taking criticism" mean we have to do anything other than see what they say, disagree with it, and go have a beer? Something tells me that with the dishonesty he's shown, "responding well" to his criticism means obeying his demands. I've tried politely telling him he was wrong, and why. I've tried a bit of gentle mockery. Then I had to sit back and laugh as he hit meltdown. It's funny that someone can insult someone's integrity by claiming that they were shilling for an alliance, and pretend that he wasn't attacking anybody. (Just like calling me stupid, and then saying he was really talking about my argument.) Emoraging children who demand that I "respond well" to their demands, not by listening and making up my own mind, but by obeying their commands are... funny. Originally by: Atlas Oracle great marketing tactics. i really want to read your stuff now. I was marketing? I should accept unfounded and untrue charges that we were publishing propaganda, otherwise you won't read the 'zine? You also think that "taking criticism" means demands should be obeyed? Somehow, we'll manage. ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, youÆre going to be Mister Finnagain! Comeday morm and, O, youÆre vine! SenddayÆs eve and, ah, youÆre vinegar! Hahahaha, Mister
fuze InfoMorph Services Ltd	Posted - 2008.07.19 00:19:00 - [40] Originally by: Ki An Have you even read your own article? You're pretty stupid for a pretend news man. Hi mr condescending BOB COAD spunky flame alt. The article itself was criticizing a fellow journalist who wasn't being objective with their report. That in itself is a valid subject for an article. ISD is for reporting on Eve events but not being a bulletin board for alliances. But he simply went too far with his anti-BOB and CCP rant.

Mr M	Posted - 2008.07.19 00:33:00 - [41] What Finn said. Oh... and if you're still upset about T20 two years later you really should think about you priorities. It's a game, and we're not even playing about real money here. EVE Tribune \| EVEgeek
FinnAgain Zero	Posted - 2008.07.19 01:08:00 - [42] Fuze: While I can respect that opinion, I have to argue against it. Was the article harsh, even mordant? Yes, without a doubt. It also raised some valid questions about the backstory that both the 'player news' and NYT articles left out. Namely, that BoB had indeed claimed in the past that their goal was complete galactic domination is interesting considering that they now admit that is impossible... without ever admitting defeat. Even then, when they suffered a fairly notable defeat, their response, via ISD, was literally that they could not be stopped unless they chose to stop. That's not anti-BoB. BoB are, of course, elite PvP'ers with an awesome alliance war machine at their back. Stating that their rhetoric sometimes gets away from them doesn't take away from the very real skill and talent that BoB possesses. It's also not anti-CCP to point out that by posting uncritical alliance propaganda in the player news section, they end up, by effect even if not by design, taking BoB's side in a propaganda slinging contest. I doubt there even would have been an article, in the first place, if Magnus Balteus had titled his article something like "BoB initiates their 'Max Campaign'". But the title, plus the content, was simply too much. Even now, someone logging in and just casually browsing the news items would only see: Quote: The Max Age Has Begun reported by: ISD Magnus Balteus \| 2008.07.10 22:48:42 Band of Brothers has initiated an operation they call ôMaximum Damageö, or the ôMax Ageö for short. In the first of four planned deployments, Shrike has led the first team of over 350 capital ships and 600 support ships into a staging area in Saranen, Lonetrek. Magnus took what he himself said was BoB's name for the campaign, "Max Age", and then uncritically used that as his title, as if it wasn't just BoB's name for it, but that they were correct and it was, indeed, a new Age for EVE that was totally directed by and due to BoB, and BoB alone. Even putting "Max Age" in quotes in the title would have worked to separate the ISD article (and thus, CCP's tacit endorsement by posting it), and BoB's claims. We would've definitely published the same article if the player news section treated us to an article titled "The Goon Age Has Begun" and provided claims from Goon leadership about how they were about to dine in NOL. So, to get back to your last point, was the article too harsh on BoB and/or CCP? I honestly don't think so. I think it provided valid criticism on CCP's inclusion of alliance propaganda in the player news section, the history and use of BoB's rhetoric and why CCP shouldn't allow something that is essentially one-sided propaganda to be posted as 'required reading' to each and every single player who logs in. Reasonable people can disagree on that point, of course. One man's rousing verbal sparring is anther's rhetorical bar brawl. I think, however, that we have a very good mechanism to prevent any institutional bias. Anybody who can write passingly well is always able to submit their counter arguments. Even now, if anybody wants to argue that it's perfectly proper for CCP to publish pro-BoB propaganda, we'll publish it. Of course, we may have a counter-rebuttal, but that's only fair. For obvious reasons, we wouldn't publish anything in our own 'zine that amounted to tinfoil hattist accusations that we were engaging in propaganda for the northern powers. That's not a rebuttal, that's a smear. But the offer is still open. Anybody in this thread, or reading it, or thinking about its subject is invited to write a rebuttal and earn 20 mil ISK per page for it. ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, youÆre going to be Mister Finnagain! Comeday morm and, O, youÆre vine! SenddayÆs eve and, ah, youÆre vinegar! Hahahaha, Mister
FinnAgain Zero	Posted - 2008.07.19 01:15:00 - [43] Oh, and, sorry for the double post, but: Originally by: Kuar Z'thain On-topic: You can't count on anything to be unbiased and honestly, writing your own article would be the best way. I also think the ET's staff response of "STFU and let's see you do better" may be a good response, but definitely not the right way to say it. It really isn't "STFU and let's see you do better." If I had to put it in a quote, it'd be: "We're doing this for fun, and people shouldn't take it too seriously. If you like it, great. If you don't, that's too bad, but we're not going to change what we're doing because a few people get angry at us. This is a hobby, not our job. If all you have is criticism, there really isn't anything to be done as we're not going to go back and censor a previous issue to remove a writer's opinion simply because some readers found it offensive. We will, however, provide you a public forum, on our bandwidth, so that you can write a rebuttal. And we'll even pay you 20 mil ISK per page to do it. But just berating us won't do any good. We're not idiots, we've already looked at the situation, and the only offer we'll make is that we'll provide a forum, on our dime, for dissenting viewpoints." Heck, we'd be happy to interview any and all BoB FC's/leaders/what-have-you who'd like to defend claims that Max is unstoppable barring BoB's consent, that it defines the current era of EVE, or even if they just want to chew the fat a bit and tell the gaming community a bit more about the nature of Max. Feel free to forward the offer along. If they email editor.evetribune@gmail.com, we can schedule something. ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, youÆre going to be Mister Finnagain! Comeday morm and, O, youÆre vine! SenddayÆs eve and, ah, youÆre vinegar! Hahahaha, Mister
John Holt Caldari Tovil-Toba's Elite Guard	Posted - 2008.07.19 05:12:00 - [44] This has become much more than I ever intended when I made the opening post. I would argue that my original points still stands. The Tribune representative says... Quote: Even putting "Max Age" in quotes in the title would have worked to separate the ISD article (and thus, CCP's tacit endorsement by posting it), and BoB's claims. The fact is he still doesn't understand the unique place that ISD IC holds. CCP does not post their articles; they post their own articles. They have their own oversight, and chose their own subjects for their articles. When opinions are given they represent the opinion of the reporter, not of CCP. Its true that CCP provides guidelines for ISD IC, but these guidelines pertain to conduct, not to a point of view about certain alliances and such things. The second main point of the opening post still stands as well. Bob is not Bob because CCP favors it or endorses it. Bob is Bob because they are dedicated to a common cause with strong leadership. I don't have to agree with their cause (and I don't) to respect how Bob has become Bob. At the same time, my opening post was not meant to be a general criticism of all that the Tribune is. I critiqued the under lying assumption of one article; nothing more. John Holt My Personal Eve Site
astowv Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.07.19 06:22:00 - [45] Originally by: Max Teranous Originally by: Chribba Who is this Max anyway? Is it the guy that won the FanFest tournament that time? You called ? Max I am not sure I want to know what you did to whom to get this campaign named after you :D ---- --- CCP Navigator is watching me. It scares me !
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.07.19 06:24:00 - [46] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Discordia Duenna You must not read rl journalism then, it's full of it...or are you deluding yourself? Depends on what you read, and what you know about those that wrote it. The problem here is that Eve Tribune has (had) a good reputation. We are merely critizising it for something we thought was bad journalism. The Tribune can either acknowledge this critizism or do as they have done in this thread and go "why don't you do a better job then". Persnally, I'd have preferred if they had gone with the former approach. I for read the onion for truthful news :)
FinnAgain Zero	Posted - 2008.07.19 07:00:00 - [47] Edited by: FinnAgain Zero on 19/07/2008 07:04:34 Edited by: FinnAgain Zero on 19/07/2008 07:03:35 Several things John. First, I have a name. If you're going to quote me, you can use it. It's just weird for you to quote me and then talk about me in the third person. I'm also not a "rep". Second, you're playing Lawyerball. I understand full well what ISD is. I also know full well who runs EVE and gets to decide on what content is there, even if they choose not to exercise that control (thus giving tacit endorsement to what's there). I'm most certainly not wrong and your point does not stand. ISD operates at the will of CCP, not the other way around. If ISD submits a story that they want published, CCP has every right to say "no". Your claim that CCP does not post ISD's articles, that ISD posts them is disingenuous. They're posted on CCP's official website, and on CCP's official login screen on CCP's official EVE client. If ISD posted to its own website, you might have a point. As it is, they don't, so you don't. They post on CCP's property. And even if an ISD employee is the person to physically input the actual text, it's not like CCP couldn't remove it if they wished. I guarantee you, an ISD article on how to engage in RMT without getting caught would not last long. Ditto for any number of subjects. One of which, obviously, should be alliance propaganda masquerading as official news. CCP has, in addition, shown that it can and will dismiss ISD members. The argument that CCP sets the rules, and that means that ISD can post whatever they want, within those rules, because those are the rules, is circular. CCP can decide to change the rules. That they let ISD post pro-BoB propaganda on each and every single player's login screen was a screwup. Claiming that CCP's rules made them powerless to not have pro-BoB propaganda posted on the login screen ignores the fact that CCP made and can change those rules. ISD cannot simply post whatever they want. Again, do you really want to place a bet on how long a pro RMT post, with links and instructions, would stay up? The argument that CCP is powerless, and not responsible for, and does not tacitly endorse content on their own official news section is absurd. CCP can, and would, remove a large number of objectionable topics even if ISD slipped them in. That an article titled "Goons are the best and those who don't like them are bastards" would, or should be allowed to be posted on CCP's official news section, just because an ISD writer submitted it, is risible. There's also the fact that being able to hijack ISD to provide alliance propaganda directly violates the spirit of CCP's rule that ISD cannot give players an unfair advantage. Your second point falls just like the first, but for a much simpler reason. You're arguing against something that nobody on the Tribune said. Nobody. At all. Nobody said, implied, hinted at, suggested or communicated via ouija board or smoke signals that "BoB is BoB" because of CCP's actions. In fact, one of the articles in that issues goes on, in specific detail, to talk about BoB's strengths. Not once is CCP mentioned as a cause or contributor to those strengths. You're doing battle with a strawman and crowing about how you're winning a fight with a real person. As nobody made the claims you're arguing against, your rebuttal to imaginary claims cannot exactly be said to "stand". Which brings me to your outlandish suggestion that you are only "free" to critique the Tribune one way. You can rant your head off anywhere you like (other than our proprietary forums). We're also free to tell you that you're wrong, that we've already thought about the issue and/or that we're not bothered by your disagreement. You're free to post whatever you want as long as the forum rules allow it. You simply won't accomplish anything other than venting or getting others to vent with you. And of course, much like "BoB is BoB ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, youÆre going to be Mister Finnagain! Comeday morm and, O, youÆre vine! SenddayÆs eve and, ah, youÆre vinegar! Hahahaha, Mister
FinnAgain Zero	Posted - 2008.07.19 07:03:00 - [48] Originally by: MotherMoon I for read the onion for truthful news :) Amusingly enough, the only time we really did make stuff up, we had one merry time watching some of the fallout, like this. Next year's April can't come fast enough. ------------------------------------------------ Hohohoho, Mister Finn, youÆre going to be Mister Finnagain! Comeday morm and, O, youÆre vine! SenddayÆs eve and, ah, youÆre vinegar! Hahahaha, Mister
Sarah Tuttle Plato Academy	Posted - 2008.07.19 07:21:00 - [49] Edited by: Sarah Tuttle on 19/07/2008 07:25:33 Edited by: Sarah Tuttle on 19/07/2008 07:24:08 Sorry for posting on my wife's toon...I was on checking markets for her when I saw your post. John FinnAgain Zero, I don't intend to get into an extended argument with you. This will be my last post in this thread and if you wish to have the last word, so be it. On the first issue you are arguing generalities (CCP controls its sites) and applying it specifically (CCP endorses Bob through the ISD IC article). I'm arguing that in the specific CCP does not, though ISD IC, endorse specific alliances. The news there is player written and player driven. Yes, they operate under rules laid out by CCP, but those rules do not include the idea of supporting specific alliances. On the second issue, what is the point of the article if it is not to argue that CCP supports Bob? I don't think you are being above board with us when you argue this wasn't said when its the very point being made through implication. Again you reply that any critique of the Tribune not written and submitted to the Tribune for publication is merely a "rant." You are simply wrong about this. If the NY Times wishes to critique the Washington Post, must it submit an article for publication in the Post before it can do so? Sarah Tuttle My Eve Site
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.19 07:37:00 - [50] Can this threads title be changed? I was hoping to read something entertaining or informative about max.. Perhaps I can humbly suggest: 'the editorial policies of CCP and Eve Tribune [rant and wall of text warnings]' would be more accurate. Rabies is unexpected ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ dealing with the UNDERPANTS of eve since 2004

El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.07.19 10:08:00 - [51] There could be a bias in the author of course, that's pretty common. When all news programs and papers in the United States are biased one way or another its hard for people to know what an unbiased report is. I've seen in the past folks try to do news events and such, just players. The problem is that everyone thinks they are spies and thus they either are fed incorrect information or ignored. In time they either move on to other pursuits in game or leave EVE.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.19 11:30:00 - [52] Finn, I started out this thread with the intent to give honest cirtique to in my view a simply bad and damaging article. It is clear to me that you still hold bitterness from past events involving BoB and CCP. As an Eve player (not a BoB alt, but certainly biased in favor of BoB nowadays) I find it really sad to still encounter this kind of bitterness. There are loads of it floating around in CAOD, but in my naivity, I thought it would remain there. Your article proved to me that the bitterness is spilling over into other venues, and I reacted with passion. I started off as vehemently anti-BoB. Over time, I have changed my opinion drastically. I have come to see that in 0.0 there are no good guys, and I have become increasingly annoyed with one side trying to play the moral-highground card over and over again, despite the fact that they are as bad, if not worse, than the other side. Now I post in CAOD, painting myself in the light of a BoB-fanboi, all because of the backlash from the T20 scandal. You claim to be over it. Your article proves that you're not. Please, I'm just saying that your article went over the line. Far over the line. If you're going to critisize CCP for their editorial policies, keep the article neutral. You didn't, because your evident bitterness kept you from it. I'm done posting here. Just wanted to defend my self a bit, since I've been made out, by you and others, as some kind of conspiracy toting BoB-alt, which I'm most definately not. I'm just annoyed that one side of the conflict can't seem to play fair. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Polly Prissypantz Dingleberry Appreciation Society	Posted - 2008.07.19 11:44:00 - [53] Logging in to Eve Forums Online. Loading useless posts [123,567 / 5,359,104]. Please wait...
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.19 11:55:00 - [54] Well the EVE tribune guys in this thread has at least convinced me to never visit their site again.
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2008.07.19 12:33:00 - [55] First off, I as an EVE player and writer for www.Eve-Mag.com saw the "max age" article for what it was. That is someone reporting that an alliance was preparing for a massive move that involved 12 of the biggest most expensive ships that most alliances have maybe 1 of. The article covered something that is "big" economically, SP wise,numbers wise. regardless if it was player generated and run through a player useable pipeline for their article to be shown in a ccp product OR a ccp created article to be posted on eve, it was covering something that was intended to be big. Like or hate bob, what the move proposed is out of the ability of the majority of eve players. A lot of us wont ever see a single titan, the idea of seeing 12 or so in the same system is out of question unless we join an alliance purely to see it. A titan takes more isk then most players will ever generate so again, 10+ is a big move. 300 capitals were also tagging along IIRC , again another sight most eve players wont see nor ever have enough for 2 caps of their own. Even if a CCP employee wrote the article it was unbiased. Anyone suggesting that it is is clearly a fool. You can say "all a noob will see is the endoresement of bob". Strange because it was a snippet of an article that I saw after logging in. There was also that ever present, confusing,perplexing "click here for more" link hovering next to the tidbit. IF someone gives a damn they will click that link. That link will take them to the entire article. The "sound bite" means nothing when reading the entire article as most mindless drones will realize something. That something is that there is an alliance rep from the opposition of the proposed shift of major assets by alliance A(which happens to be bob). Alliance B rep says "hah! those noobs can try but we'll send em packing in no time!". okay so he didn't say that but their actions did. The point is that the writer of the article gave the other side a chance to respond. There was nothing that suggested the writer was probob. Any ohhing and aahhing about the proposed bob plan was aimed at the assets that they intended to bring to the fight. Any alliance that can bring +1 titan and +10 capships to a fight over what bob's plan called for and that allaince will be ohhed and ahhed. Not at the alliance itself but at the audacious plan and astronomical costs of the fleet on paper. As for the ensuing bs on this thread I have to say that I am glad I only read the first half of the article that was linked. I didn't need to read anymore of it because I already knew it was off by that point. It ran on about something that didn't matter even if ccp was on bob's side with the article. it is ccp's product and people know what bob stands for, for one reason or another. Even if you like or hate bob or have no opinion at all its one of the first alliances you hear about when joining eve. Its a player run group that proposed to attempt to cause big waves. If ccp wants to promote that then its up to them. The only problem would be if CCP were to "endorse" bob by giving them free ships, isk or titans that fell off a super freighter. I remember a group making their own station. I saw the article after logging in but i didnt feel ccp endorsed their action nor condoned it. it had no effect on my pov of the group. same with bob. at worst it was ccp promoting player generated "events". At best no one cared. Oh and the responses from those from that little site, you didn't really do yourselves a favor. I never heard of the site before todayand after this I can sincerely say that I had more interest in reading its content 2 months ago then I do now. I'm sure several others will see this thread as a reason NOT to visit the site ever again. GG on getting worked up over uninterested people not clicking "click here to see the entire article". GG on ****ing off potential readers. GG, thanks for the laffz.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.07.19 15:45:00 - [56] Originally by: Heartstone sad fact is that it seems to be perfectly acceptable these days to have personal rants and uninformed "experts" opinions being headline news. For a second there I was thinking you were talking about the media in todays real world...wait I think you said it just right. Slade "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self"
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.07.19 15:59:00 - [57] I find that eve-tribune is a good resource for links to use in my articles for massively.com. I google for a specific topic and eve-tribune will sometimes have an article on it that's a decent read. It's especially useful if you're looking for info on something that happened in the past. That said, I would not link to this particular article if I were doing an article on the topic. It's not written very well and there are alternative sources that are more factual and less presumptuous. The quality of eve-tribune seems to have been fairly consistent overall. I'd say there are a few more crap articles making it in these days but it's still a good resource. Pillowsoft - Join the Pillowsoft Gallente Militia, get free ships and support.
Jennai The Greater Goon	Posted - 2008.07.19 17:31:00 - [58] Originally by: John Holt Its true that CCP provides guidelines for ISD IC, but these guidelines pertain to conduct, not to a point of view about certain alliances and such things. CCP does not read each article before it is posted. The leaders of ISD, who are players, do that. well then they should recruit more ISD or institute an equal time rule because it seems like we only ever get articles about BoB and roleplayers. we need more follow-up articles and viewpoints from the other side, like the recent MAX follow-up.
fuze InfoMorph Services Ltd	Posted - 2008.07.19 22:06:00 - [59] Originally by: Ki An Just wanted to defend my self a bit, since I've been made out, by you and others, as some kind of conspiracy toting BoB-alt, which I'm most definately not. I'm just annoyed that one side of the conflict can't seem to play fair. What do you regard as being fair? Fraternizing with devs and get knowledge of game mechanics before everyone else? People are still sensitive when it comes to favoring BOB. If you want to play a game and have fun it should be on an equal level for everybody. And CCP has to be very carefull not to upset this because in the end their jobs are on the line.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.19 22:11:00 - [60] Originally by: fuze What do you regard as being fair? Fraternizing with devs and get knowledge of game mechanics before everyone else? People are still sensitive when it comes to favoring BOB. If you want to play a game and have fun it should be on an equal level for everybody. And CCP has to be very carefull not to upset this because in the end their jobs are on the line. I agree fully with this. That's why I made that post regarding the T20 scandal. Thing is, that should be behind us now. CCP have implemented several fail safe systems to prevent it from happening again. I can understand that a lack of trust in CCP is lingering, but if you STILL think that CCP are screwing you over, after almost two years, you really should quit playing the game. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting

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