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| Author |
Topic |
AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:18:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Amandin Adouin
yeah I've thought about that actually. The Sleipnir looks like a great ship. So it can really do Level 4 missions alright? I'm not too worried about using the quickest ship, I just don't want to get blown up 
No. You can make a stupid tank, but you can make a stupid tank on the maelstrom too. Sleip has awful mission DPS and range.
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Amandin Adouin
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:26:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Boz Well
Sleip will survive level 4's no problem, but it tends to either have range or damage and not both, heh. All in all, battleships are the choice for level 4's, but command ships can work (less efficiently).
Cool, I may actually go that route. It just sucks that the Minmatar line of Battleships suck so bad right now. I really love the overall design and feel of Matari ships (except the Typhoon, which just looks like a floating garbage pile). My secret reason for wanting the Maelstrom is how f***g beatiful the ship is 
Anyway because of the crappy BS lineup, and I've just spent an inordinate amount of time obsessing about which ship I'm going to work towards... Oh well at least my new Eve obsession (why didn't I find this game sooner?!) has provided a wonderful and much needed escape recently.
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Amandin Adouin
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:30:00 -
[33]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Amandin Adouin
yeah I've thought about that actually. The Sleipnir looks like a great ship. So it can really do Level 4 missions alright? I'm not too worried about using the quickest ship, I just don't want to get blown up
No. You can make a stupid tank, but you can make a stupid tank on the maelstrom too. Sleip has awful mission DPS and range.
??? What exactly is a "Stupid" tank? 
I understand that neither is optimal. But I'm a fairly casual player. That said, which one, in your opinion, would be slightly better?
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:31:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Amandin Adouin
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Amandin Adouin
yeah I've thought about that actually. The Sleipnir looks like a great ship. So it can really do Level 4 missions alright? I'm not too worried about using the quickest ship, I just don't want to get blown up
No. You can make a stupid tank, but you can make a stupid tank on the maelstrom too. Sleip has awful mission DPS and range.
??? What exactly is a "Stupid" tank?
I understand that neither is optimal. But I'm a fairly casual player. That said, which one, in your opinion, would be slightly better?
"Stupid" tank being overtanked, and having no DPS (therefore being safe.. and also inefficient). The maelstrom is much better for missions.
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:33:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Boz Well on 18/07/2008 22:32:54
Originally by: Amandin Adouin
Originally by: Boz Well
Sleip will survive level 4's no problem, but it tends to either have range or damage and not both, heh. All in all, battleships are the choice for level 4's, but command ships can work (less efficiently).
Cool, I may actually go that route. It just sucks that the Minmatar line of Battleships suck so bad right now. I really love the overall design and feel of Matari ships (except the Typhoon, which just looks like a floating garbage pile). My secret reason for wanting the Maelstrom is how f***g beatiful the ship is
Anyway because of the crappy BS lineup, and I've just spent an inordinate amount of time obsessing about which ship I'm going to work towards... Oh well at least my new Eve obsession (why didn't I find this game sooner?!) has provided a wonderful and much needed escape recently.
But the pest has teh pirate mast ! 
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Amandin Adouin
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:49:00 -
[36]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
"Stupid" tank being overtanked, and having no DPS (therefore being safe.. and also inefficient). The maelstrom is much better for missions.
Gotcha. Well I suppose it's best that I overtank at first anyway. I'll have plenty of time to play around with the higher damage ones later, when I know what I'm doing 
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Amandine Andoiun
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:51:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Amandine Andoiun on 18/07/2008 22:52:08
Edited by: Amandine Andoiun on 18/07/2008 22:51:50
Originally by: Boz Well
But the pest has teh pirate mast !
Yarr
p.s. It sucks that it's like the worst battleship out there, I've heard.
grr stupid alt.
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.07.18 23:18:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Amandine Andoiun
Edited by: Amandine Andoiun on 18/07/2008 22:52:08
Edited by: Amandine Andoiun on 18/07/2008 22:51:50
Originally by: Boz Well
But the pest has teh pirate mast !
Yarr
p.s. It sucks that it's like the worst battleship out there, I've heard.
grr stupid alt.
I don't think it's really absolutely terrible, but it is pretty much the worst I'd say. The problem is all of its advantages have basically been removed one by one through patches. It's left with fairly poor gank/tank in the era of gank/tank.
Sleip is a nice ship, although I wouldn't fly one for PVE. Then again, I tend to fly the most efficient ship I possibly can. Sleip is very nice to have for PVP though, so it's not wasted training.
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Amandine Andoiun
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.19 00:59:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Amandine Andoiun on 19/07/2008 00:59:57
My mom just came over for a surprise visit out of the blue to help me clean my apartment... on a Friday night, no less. 
Anyway I just wanted to thank all you guys - Boz and Astrophobic you've been especially helpful (to me and to others in all the other posts on this/these forum(s)).
I just wanted to thank you for all of your helpfulness and wicked senses of humor 
edit: f**k i hate this alt
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.19 01:14:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Amandine Andoiun
Edited by: Amandine Andoiun on 19/07/2008 00:59:57
My mom just came over for a surprise visit out of the blue to help me clean my apartment... on a Friday night, no less.
Anyway I just wanted to thank all you guys - Boz and Astrophobic you've been especially helpful (to me and to others in all the other posts on this/these forum(s)).
I just wanted to thank you for all of your helpfulness and wicked senses of humor
edit: f**k i hate this alt
I'm not very humorous on these forums, so I think you mean Boz. However I am funny in person...
...
...
Okay Boz, I get it, you called dibs. 
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Faye Valerii
Caldari
Exeunt Omnes
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Posted - 2008.07.19 01:16:00 -
[41]
if you go maelstrom, just be ABSOLUTELY sure to get t2 med drone skills, or you'll get scrambled to death in some missions. arty sucks against frigs and you wont have the mids for web, so those precious few drones are all you'll have!
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2008.07.19 07:45:00 -
[42]
Maybe Im nuts, but what is it the Tempest sucks at?
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
I'm the Juggernaut, *****! |
Amraphel
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Posted - 2008.07.21 03:46:00 -
[43]
I use a Mael for lvl4 mission running, and used a Cyc for all the lvl3s. I think the skills needed for Cyc (both SP-wise and player-wise) translate very well to the Mael. The missile skills you need to invest in for the Cyc are pretty cheap, and they'll come in handy if you ever want to switch to a missile boat later.
They're great for casual mission runners, I think. You can get a crazy active shield tank on both, which lets you make a few mistakes while learning the missions without losing the ship. Then, as you get more comfortable with the missions, you can swap some of that tanking for DPS. I'm almost exclusively a mission runner, and I've only lost one Cyc so far. I'm still using the same Mael I jumped into last year.
There are a few things to keep in mind though:
- They are quite skill intensive to run well (like most Minnie ships) and, unlike the perma-tanked fire-and-forget Raven style that's so popular with mission runners, they require constant attention in battle (cap management, optimal range/speed management, transversal management, etc).
- If you're an arty fan, you'll need to learn how to manage rat transversal, since tracking is your biggest weakness. For the Mael, you'll need decent drone skills to deal with frigs. The frigs can be a problem for the arty Cyc too, but at least there you can rely on your missiles to (inefficiently) handle them if they get too close.
- The DPS is subpar compared to other races' BS. With T2 1400s, T2 gyros and almost max gunnery skills (all at 4 or 5) I get about 500 DPS on the Mael, a bit more if I switch to fleet ammo. It gets the job done, but isn't anything to write home about.
All that being said, they're great fun, and I have yet to run into a mission I couldn't handle. I don't think you'll regret taking the Mael route for lvl4s if you're not looking for total optimization.
As for saving money for it, with the very good money that can be made from salvaging, you won't have a lot of trouble saving up for one. Minnie agent missions against Angels give you trit bars, which sell quite well. Also, some of the good lvl3 Brutor and Fleet agents give a lot of missions that result in melted cap consoles (against blood raiders I think, can't remember), which also sell very well.
Finally, see if you can find someone that will build you the ship if you provide the minerals and BPC. That's how I got mine built in the days before salvage, when isk was harder to come by. About half of the minerals in my Mael came from melting down junk loot from lvl3 missions :)
Feel free to convo me in game with any questions. I've been running missions with this setup for a while now, and I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.07.21 03:51:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Maybe Im nuts, but what is it the Tempest sucks at?
I don't think it "sucks" per se but it is generally worse than it's peers in every department. If flexability was what made the ship great the simple fact that it doesn't specialize well at all proves to be it's downfall, especially given how much modern Eve PVP relies on gank/Buffer and all the fancy tricks that made the Pest all but unstoppable in the past have been nerfed into obscalescence.
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Norwood Franskly
Minmatar
Fleet of the Damned
Dark Trinity Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.21 03:57:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Norwood Franskly on 21/07/2008 04:05:29
Originally by: Amraphel
- The DPS is subpar compared to other races' BS. With T2 1400s, T2 gyros and almost max gunnery skills (all at 4 or 5) I get about 500 DPS on the Mael, a bit more if I switch to fleet ammo. It gets the job done, but isn't anything to write home about.
That number seems insanely low to me I do about 450 dps with my 720 mm sleipnir setup and have a lot better tracking against the small ships, which leads me to believe the sleipnir is not as bad for missions as people are making out.
edit: Just played around with EFT, you get about 70 more dps from the maelstrom (8 * 1400 II with 3 gyros vs 7 * 720mm II + HML II with 3 gyros), 522 for maelstrom 454 for sleipnir.
what you forgot to add in was the drone bay which adds a significant fortion to your dps with 3 ogres and 2 hammerheads the maelstrom goes up to 722 dps.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.07.21 04:02:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Norwood Franskly
Originally by: Amraphel
- The DPS is subpar compared to other races' BS. With T2 1400s, T2 gyros and almost max gunnery skills (all at 4 or 5) I get about 500 DPS on the Mael, a bit more if I switch to fleet ammo. It gets the job done, but isn't anything to write home about.
That number seems insanely low to me I do about 450 dps with my 720 mm sleipnir setup and have a lot better tracking against the small ships, which leads me to believe the sleipnir is not as bad for missions as people are making out.
I ran level 4's in a Drake spitting 315 DPS (now it's up to a whopping 374!). My Raven only does 500 DPS including drones. Yep more dps is always nice to have but the Sleip can at least sling the damage required to perform the mission, especially considering how stout it's tank is. Of course, if the rats are resistant to Exp damage then you'll be awhile. . .
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Amraphel
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Posted - 2008.07.21 04:41:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Norwood Franskly
Edited by: Norwood Franskly on 21/07/2008 04:05:29
Originally by: Amraphel
- The DPS is subpar compared to other races' BS. With T2 1400s, T2 gyros and almost max gunnery skills (all at 4 or 5) I get about 500 DPS on the Mael, a bit more if I switch to fleet ammo. It gets the job done, but isn't anything to write home about.
That number seems insanely low to me I do about 450 dps with my 720 mm sleipnir setup and have a lot better tracking against the small ships, which leads me to believe the sleipnir is not as bad for missions as people are making out.
edit: Just played around with EFT, you get about 70 more dps from the maelstrom (8 * 1400 II with 3 gyros vs 7 * 720mm II + HML II with 3 gyros), 522 for maelstrom 454 for sleipnir.
what you forgot to add in was the drone bay which adds a significant fortion to your dps with 3 ogres and 2 hammerheads the maelstrom goes up to 722 dps.
You're right, I didn't include the drone bay. I really only use the drones (med scouts) for close frig cleanup duty since I prefer to engage at 50-70km (depending on ammo) and at that range they're useless. Once my drone skills get better (they're my current training chain, I've been neglecting them a bit) I might reconsider my tactics.
And yeah, the DPS approximation was on the low end. It's for the full tanking setup (XL booster II, 3x rat specific active hardners II, inv II and AB). The XL booster eats up a lot of CPU so I only have room for 2 gyros. Switching it out to a best named lets me add a 3rd gyro, which as you noted ups the DPS.
So I consider low to mid 500s a reasonable estimate for a 1400s using Mael in "real world" scenarios, especially when you take into account the reload time. I could be wrong though, I never paid close attention to it. The steps of my DPS measurements really consist of: "too low", "gets the job done", and "OMGWTF?!" :) |
BiggestT
Caldari
Fun Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.21 04:50:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Boz Well
But the pest has teh pirate mast !
the mael has two :P
note: two as in "2" NOT too as in also :P
poudly annoying fc's since 2007 |
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