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| Author |
Topic |
Valandril
Caldari
Exiled.
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.17 16:18:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Valandril on 17/07/2008 16:22:53
Edited by: Valandril on 17/07/2008 16:20:19
It's about damn time to finaly make this change, rats MUST stop shooting drones. There is no condition where they should primary drones, while there are 1 milion situations it will fix.
Example:
- To make many lvl4 missions in drone ship u must take aggro of WHOLE room instead take it in parts simply because launching drones will pull rats aggro on em
- If you get disconnected becasue fo your isp/ccp server crash/mouse biting tho cable you loose now valuable 5 drones because before you will log back in and slowboat to them, they will be killed.
- To rat vs longrange 0.0 rats (ie. angels) you must also sit duck and wait for them to aggro you before you can start dpsing in drone boat, because otherwise they will get killed.
This change is requested over and over for more than year w/o response. What's going on ccp ? If you don't think we need it, try running some lvl4 missions in dominix ie. "Vengeance" with guristas.
Also when you log in after dc, drones should reconnect with your ship, slowboating 50km to get them is NOT FUNNY AT ALL.
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Valandril
Caldari
Exiled.
Un-Natural Selection
|
Posted - 2008.07.17 16:18:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Valandril on 17/07/2008 16:22:53
Edited by: Valandril on 17/07/2008 16:20:19
It's about damn time to finaly make this change, rats MUST stop shooting drones. There is no condition where they should primary drones, while there are 1 milion situations it will fix.
Example:
- To make many lvl4 missions in drone ship u must take aggro of WHOLE room instead take it in parts simply because launching drones will pull rats aggro on em
- If you get disconnected becasue fo your isp/ccp server crash/mouse biting tho cable you loose now valuable 5 drones because before you will log back in and slowboat to them, they will be killed.
- To rat vs longrange 0.0 rats (ie. angels) you must also sit duck and wait for them to aggro you before you can start dpsing in drone boat, because otherwise they will get killed.
This change is requested over and over for more than year w/o response. What's going on ccp ? If you don't think we need it, try running some lvl4 missions in dominix ie. "Vengeance" with guristas.
Also when you log in after dc, drones should reconnect with your ship, slowboating 50km to get them is NOT FUNNY AT ALL.
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TVPR
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Posted - 2008.07.17 16:59:00 -
[3]
I gotta say, I don't see any need for this. When running missions in a drone boat, half the point is the ability to fit a super-heavy tank with the CPU/PG you save on using big guns. Aggroing the whole room is just part of the deal - which, tbcfh, isn't much of a challenge even in the toughest L4's if you know what to do with your domi.
The point about slowboating to get drones after d/c; I see why you'd like it - hell, I'd like it myself - but think about it. How often does your average player suddenly crash (the scenario where drones warping out with you would be a good thing) compared to how often your average player suddenly go logoffski to avoid danger? In the latter scenario, should they really be able to save their drones as well this way?
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Phext
Gallente
Lux Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.07.17 17:11:00 -
[4]
If the interface at least could tell me if a drone gets aggro and/or who has a lock on the drone I could either recall or primary the npc aggressing it. Currently I can only see that the drone is taking damage (and guess who deals the damage) which in most cases mean, the drone will die before scooped to bay.
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Poba
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.07.17 17:30:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Poba on 17/07/2008 17:36:34
rats shooting drones ftl
4 y ?
disconnect with drones out = dead drones when u log back in, unstable internets ftl  no other weapon used by ships is penalized by DCs drones could at least get auto recalled like fighters when u get DCed if CCP insists that rats still shoot at them, nothing sucks more than having to go multiple jumps back to a station to get drones cause of a DC and logging back in to them all being destroyed, or better yet logging in to see 3 of them left 40 km away, and watching the last one pop when ur 5 km from it
me thinks more ppl would sympathize with drone users if they lost their lasers/launchers/guns when they DCed  , its not just for durring missions, any situation with rats around when you get a DC = dead drones. and when a DC while using drones costs 4-5 mil every time it really starts to get annoying 
rats targeting drones stops most people from using the faction drones in PVE, and i havnt seen anyone using them for PVP due to ridiculous price and low BPC drop rate, so thx alot CCP for faction drones that are completely impractical to use EVER 
~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~ |
Valandril
Caldari
Exiled.
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.17 18:00:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Valandril on 17/07/2008 18:05:00
 Originally by: TVPR
I gotta say, I don't see any need for this. When running missions in a drone boat, half the point is the ability to fit a super-heavy tank with the CPU/PG you save on using big guns. Aggroing the whole room is just part of the deal - which, tbcfh, isn't much of a challenge even in the toughest L4's if you know what to do with your domi.
The point about slowboating to get drones after d/c; I see why you'd like it - hell, I'd like it myself - but think about it. How often does your average player suddenly crash (the scenario where drones warping out with you would be a good thing) compared to how often your average player suddenly go logoffski to avoid danger? In the latter scenario, should they really be able to save their drones as well this way?
Did you every try lvl4 mission in dominix with t2 heavy drones ? No ? ztry it and come back then, you will understand. And tell me how extra "heavy on pg and cpu" tank you wanna fit when you got limited slot count ? With just t2 and rigs u cannot perma tank all missions, there is no way fro that.
Poba: that's actualy good idea, whenever you get lagged on next wave/disconnected they should loove half of theyr highslots (should be around 5 mil) then i think ccp would change it right away.
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xOm3gAx
Caldari
Stain of Mind
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Posted - 2008.07.17 18:38:00 -
[7]
T2 is optional and expensive if you dont want to risk losing 4-5mil worth of drones every time from a mission that your making 10-100mil from depending on drops (not even counting bounty). Then use T1 you will only lose around 500K-1M in drones =P
No one forces you to use a drone ship to NPC each ship has advantages and disadvantages.
Use a Caldari ship for NPC they pwn missions, and thats about it lol.
Quote:
- To make many lvl4 missions in drone ship u must take aggro of WHOLE room instead take it in parts simply because launching drones will pull rats aggro on em
This is pure bs, if your that bad with using drones just fit a single gun and take a shot at 1 group... they aggro you you release drones.. rinse repeat...
Quote:
- If you get disconnected becasue fo your isp/ccp server crash/mouse biting tho cable you loose now valuable 5 drones because before you will log back in and slowboat to them, they will be killed.
Dont use T2 drones. And always carry spares.
Quote:
- To rat vs longrange 0.0 rats (ie. angels) you must also sit duck and wait for them to aggro you before you can start dpsing in drone boat, because otherwise they will get killed.
Try targeting them with a gun and shooting.. it doesnt need to hit it'll pull aggro and your drones dont die. You also dont need to wait if u do this.
Quote:
Also when you log in after dc, drones should reconnect with your ship, slowboating 50km to get them is NOT FUNNY AT ALL.
BM your drones and warp to 0. Problem solved.
Maybe its just me but i dont see the problem.
Originally by: CCP Abraxas
Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights.
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xOm3gAx
Caldari
Stain of Mind
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Posted - 2008.07.17 18:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Valandril
Edited by: Valandril on 17/07/2008 18:05:00
Originally by: TVPR
I gotta say, I don't see any need for this. When running missions in a drone boat, half the point is the ability to fit a super-heavy tank with the CPU/PG you save on using big guns. Aggroing the whole room is just part of the deal - which, tbcfh, isn't much of a challenge even in the toughest L4's if you know what to do with your domi.
The point about slowboating to get drones after d/c; I see why you'd like it - hell, I'd like it myself - but think about it. How often does your average player suddenly crash (the scenario where drones warping out with you would be a good thing) compared to how often your average player suddenly go logoffski to avoid danger? In the latter scenario, should they really be able to save their drones as well this way?
Did you every try lvl4 mission in dominix with t2 heavy drones ? No ? ztry it and come back then, you will understand. And tell me how extra "heavy on pg and cpu" tank you wanna fit when you got limited slot count ? With just t2 and rigs u cannot perma tank all missions, there is no way fro that.
Poba: that's actualy good idea, whenever you get lagged on next wave/disconnected they should loove half of theyr highslots (should be around 5 mil) then i think ccp would change it right away.
And in response to this, its called a multiplayer game get some friends to help you and you wont need to tank as much damage. You might not be able to kit to permatank every mission but you shouldnt be able to anyway. Removes multiplayer from the game if you ask me. Get some friends to help you you wont need to permatank.
Originally by: CCP Abraxas
Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights.
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Naran Darkmood
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.17 18:49:00 -
[9]
90% of the drones I lose in mission is due to my own stupidity of not picking them up before leaving.
I don't see a point in this request. There are solution. If you compare drones to other weapons, keep in mind, that drones don't use PG/CPu and this gives you a lot of leeway in fitting a omfg tank. Try setting up a Megathron with 2 LAR and Neutron Blasters. It just doesn't word.
A domi can perma run a 2 LAR - 4 hardener tank and still field both long range and short range weapons. What es do you want?
Originally by: DroneCommander
MMORPG: Many Men Online Role Playing Girls.
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Valandril
Caldari
Exiled.
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.17 19:13:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Valandril on 17/07/2008 19:14:27
Edited by: Valandril on 17/07/2008 19:13:47
I ****ing love when ppl instead talking about issue just nitpick soemone examples. Don't we all love this ?
And right, it's pure bs that Quote:
"- To make many lvl4 missions in drone ship u must take aggro of WHOLE room instead take it in parts simply because launching drones will pull rats aggro on em"
because as you say Quote:
This is pure bs, if your that bad with using drones just fit a single gun and take a shot at 1 group... they aggro you you release drones.. rinse repeat...
It's not like you didn't even read to what you are replying or sthng. Because i wrote that u MUST get aggro from whole room instead just groups because drones will pull not-aggroed groups.
Quote:
Quote:
- To rat vs longrange 0.0 rats (ie. angels) you must also sit duck and wait for them to aggro you before you can start dpsing in drone boat, because otherwise they will get killed.
Try targeting them with a gun and shooting.. it doesnt need to hit it'll pull aggro and your drones dont die. You also dont need to wait if u do this.
It's not like angel long range rats won't aggro you back unless they get on certain distance, you ofcourse knew about this when replying that 1 shoot with gun will do the job. You did, right ?
As for narvan you must sell me that devhax that lets you fit tank and large guns on dominix, setup that will actualy be valuable in missions.
Ok enought nitpicking for me, either discuss idea or stfu.
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Fars
Gallente
Rome
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Posted - 2008.07.17 22:12:00 -
[11]
As a domi pilot, I have to disagree with the op.
I am fairly much a mission runner, and still have to disagree.
Now for reasons:
a. No ammo use, try buying torps and feel the pain.
b. Not having to worry about the size of your target, try hitting frigs with 425's then use your ogres, or better yet, throw out those spare hammerhead II's. You'll understand the difference.
c. Make your own drones, drops the cost by quite a bit (sometimes)
d. You make so much stupid amounts of isk as a mission runner how can you complain about 500k? Seriously.
e. Compared to other things, the risk v. reward of drone use in pvp is pathetically low. Its up to you to screw it up, not another player(s) wtfbbqpwning you. In pvp everybody just assumes their drones will die eventually. (probably sooner than later, since they are gone every time a less than favorable fight comes your way. either you died or warped out, drones lost.)
f. I dont understand why people cant realize that loss is a good thing in a game. If anybody has tried Age of Conan one of the things I disliked the most was the lack of loss, there is no way to lose, no penalty. The greater the penalty the less worth there is to the accomplishments in my mind. I LIKE loss.
g. I understand that this is probably coming from a person who runs missions to make isk. And that is your primary goal, whether to return to pvp to get that uber ship, or whatever, and are ****ed because once again you lost your drones, however, gunboats need to worry about angular velocity etc... missile boats worry about damage type and
ship speed, drone users worry about aggro. Its the same in pvp as in pve. When a domi or an ishtar attacks me, I kill its drones. I dont bother with the ship. A drone ship is useless without its drones and its the ONLY drawback to using drones. We can choose damage type, we can choose size and we can choose speed. And with faction drones close to any mixture of the above. The only reason they are not totally overpowered is the fact that any ship can use them.
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FlameGlow
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.17 22:28:00 -
[12]
Hurray for afk missioning!
1)Get mission
2)Fly there
3)launch drones
4)profit!
Srsly, it's too easy on drone boats already - 100% selectable damage type, no ammo use, no targeting required, no worries about ewar rats, no hard choices between dps and tank, wtf?
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Jennifer Celeste
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Posted - 2008.07.17 23:45:00 -
[13]
lol, nope? learn to sit at ur keyboard and run missions you dumb ****.
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Valandril
Caldari
Exiled.
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.18 02:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: FlameGlow
Hurray for afk missioning!
1)Get mission
2)Fly there
3)launch drones
4)profit!
Srsly, it's too easy on drone boats already - 100% selectable damage type, no ammo use, no targeting required, no worries about ewar rats, no hard choices between dps and tank, wtf?
This is how domi ALREADY HAVE TO fly missions due to said drone aggro, maybe read whole topic before posting next time ? Or at least OP first post. Also it's slowest way to run lvl4 so it seems pretty fine with me, drake running lvl3 can prolly earn more isk/h thank afk domi. Damn, a drawback!
And it's not coming from mission runner, last time i runned lvl4 was about year ago, thanks for assuming tho. This topic is not about money cost of drones, or profit you make from lvl4 missions. It's about simple thing that makes pveing in eve not harder, not more complicated but actualy more frustrating. There is NO gain from current situation, only frustraion for players.
Also are you saying that only drawback of domi dronebay is "look for aggro" factor ? When last time sir did you try to fit it with resonable high slots and armor tank ? So how about fitting issues beeing another drawback ? There are couple more but i will leave it for you to find.
And wtf pvp ? We are not talking here about whatever big omfgbbq balance change but for removal of unnesesary frustration level from the game, for everyone not only domi pilots.
Missions were only example, but ppl instead speaking of idea, speak of examples :]
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Imperial Servants
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Posted - 2008.07.18 11:37:00 -
[15]
Sorry, but no. You have several advantages with drones but also some disadvantages. One of them being killable. If anything, NPC's should switch targets more often (every 3-5 minutes) to make them less predictable. The way I run lvl 4's at the moment, I have a logistic alt backing me up. The only time I have to give her any attention, is when new waves spawn. I just have to cloak to prevent them from killing her, then uncloak and continue tanking. If they switched target, there might be some more challenge in lvl 4's.
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Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2008.07.18 12:18:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
Sorry, but no. You have several advantages with drones but also some disadvantages. One of them being killable.
And about half as much DPS as with other ships.
Quote:
If anything, NPC's should switch targets more often (every 3-5 minutes) to make them less predictable.
Say what?
Why not just make drones randomly explode instead? It'd be the same effect.
If a drone of mine gets aggro at 57KM, I usually can just as well abandon it and release a new one, because it won't survive the travel back to me.
(That is, using heavy drones, of course. They're primary weapon, and otherwise there isn't much DPS.)
I'd say leave it as it is. New spawns may aggro, sure, but not cycling. At least not until we have a good drone UI and ways to protect them. Or enough drone bay to carry a LOT of them.
--------------------------------------------------
I'm a rich person. How I know? I can afford to be a miner. |
Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Imperial Servants
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Posted - 2008.07.18 12:24:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Jaketh Ivanes on 18/07/2008 12:25:30
Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
Sorry, but no. You have several advantages with drones but also some disadvantages. One of them being killable.
And about half as much DPS as with other ships.
Quote:
If anything, NPC's should switch targets more often (every 3-5 minutes) to make them less predictable.
Say what?
Why not just make drones randomly explode instead? It'd be the same effect.
If a drone of mine gets aggro at 57KM, I usually can just as well abandon it and release a new one, because it won't survive the travel back to me.
(That is, using heavy drones, of course. They're primary weapon, and otherwise there isn't much DPS.)
I'd say leave it as it is. New spawns may aggro, sure, but not cycling. At least not until we have a good drone UI and ways to protect them. Or enough drone bay to carry a LOT of them.
If a big ship turns to shoot the drones close by, it won't hit them as long as they stay in orbit. If it's a cruiser that turns on the drones, you might lose the Hvy drone or they might manage to kill the cruiser first. You can help the drones by fitting a disruptor.
If it's a frigate, just pull the big drone home. It should be able to get back in time.
But random suiciding drones could be fun to (yes, over exatterated responses get's stupid replies )
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.07.18 14:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Valandril
Edited by: Valandril on 17/07/2008 18:05:00
Originally by: TVPR
I gotta say, I don't see any need for this. When running missions in a drone boat, half the point is the ability to fit a super-heavy tank with the CPU/PG you save on using big guns. Aggroing the whole room is just part of the deal - which, tbcfh, isn't much of a challenge even in the toughest L4's if you know what to do with your domi.
The point about slowboating to get drones after d/c; I see why you'd like it - hell, I'd like it myself - but think about it. How often does your average player suddenly crash (the scenario where drones warping out with you would be a good thing) compared to how often your average player suddenly go logoffski to avoid danger? In the latter scenario, should they really be able to save their drones as well this way?
Did you every try lvl4 mission in dominix with t2 heavy drones ? No ? ztry it and come back then, you will understand. And tell me how extra "heavy on pg and cpu" tank you wanna fit when you got limited slot count ? With just t2 and rigs u cannot perma tank all missions, there is no way fro that.
Poba: that's actualy good idea, whenever you get lagged on next wave/disconnected they should loove half of theyr highslots (should be around 5 mil) then i think ccp would change it right away.
Yes I do ... and I use the drones to tank even.
The only problem are missile based rats that have the alpha strike to strip the shileds of a sentry drone fast. Generaly I recycle drone groups very fast, because a sentry Domi does not move and you can scoop/redeploy instantly and the rats in 90% of cases pick a fresh drone to attack.
There are L4 mission that don't even touch my shields because they all concentrate on the drones.
I see it as an issue with regular combat drones, but I am using those only minimal (to clean up frigates).
--- SIG ---
CSM: your support is needed ! |
Naran Darkmood
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.18 19:58:00 -
[19]
Sorry to disagree, but I'm not aware of any drone-aggro bugs. All the ones (WC4, AE4) have gotten fixed or removed.
You definitly don't have to aggro the full room.
Even if your drones are set to active.
Also, keep in mind, that you made a mistake if you heavy drone is so far away, that you can't recall it before it pops. For this range there are sentry drones.
Originally by: DroneCommander
MMORPG: Many Men Online Role Playing Girls.
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Feilamya
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.07.18 21:19:00 -
[20]
I disagree with the OP.
It's about time rats START shooting drones. Rats not shooting drones just because they weren't there when the rats picked their target is not only lack of AI, it's artificial stupidity ...
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Valandril
Caldari
Exiled.
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:55:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Valandril on 18/07/2008 23:04:15
Originally by: Feilamya
I disagree with the OP.
It's about time rats START shooting drones. Rats not shooting drones just because they weren't there when the rats picked their target is not only lack of AI, it's artificial stupidity ...
And what GOOD it will add to the game ? Beside making caldari even more overpowered when it comes to pve.
And yea, mighty sentry drones and theyr 10 minutes to kill something =)
Why you keep looking in prism "i can't don't let him!!" instead "hey, it's different way". Now raven is king of missions for ppl who fly them, it can actualy do them around 2 times faster than dominix (if faction/officer geared then more than that). Downside ? You must sit in front of pc.
Now on the totaly oposite site we got dominix, it fly missions slow as hell, wastes buttload of time waiting for aggro, drone traveling time, low dps. Good side ? You can run them half-afk.
Something for something, if for you it's better to run them totaly afk but buttslow, then train for domi. On the other hand if you wanna run them fast and earn a lot of iskies, raven is your way.
And missions is only small and actualy less affecting me part of this idea. Often disconnects, unstable connection, node crashess, client crashes, these things are really frustrating, especialy when it hapends x jumps from nearest station and your stack of drones is running low.
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BigWhale
Gallente
Three WiseMen Association
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Posted - 2008.07.19 16:57:00 -
[22]
Being a domi mission runner with T2 fitted domi, 2x LARs, 4 active hardeners that can run indefinetly and 5 medium guns. Drones that get killed make my mission running at least a wee bit more interesting.
So, I'd say, hell no, to this idea. :)
--
R, U & Y are letters, not words... |
Casino Alkasar
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.19 18:01:00 -
[23]
Just give us a *reconnect* if my ship reappears after
a client crash or disconection.
wouldnt be so unlogical that drones *search* for TeH
Master, and it would cut down drownlosses/iskloss
by a cause not connected to the gameplay
You cannot honestly tell me that million Iskloss by disco is a *feature* to balance drones vs other weapons..
thats silly
_________________
itze mine
RockŠn roll |
MarleWH
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Posted - 2008.07.20 02:19:00 -
[24]
I accidentally warped out of a belt I was ratting in and left my drones, I warped back and they were in my drone menu, I said return to drone bay and they did! yar
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