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Killer Kelly
Allied Tactical Unit Scalar Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.18 17:17:00 -
[1]
What skills are necessary to run an effective armor tank?
My list so far: Hull Upgrades Mechanic REpair Systems Compensations Cap skills
Can anyone help me prioritize this list of skills or add more? ___________ I Get Money in the Scalar Federation |
Barbicane
TGUN Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.18 17:27:00 -
[2]
1. Hull Upgrades 1-3 2. Energy Management 1-3 3. Energy Systems Operations 1-3 4. Repair Systems 1-3 5. repeat #1-4 training to level 4 6. Mechanic 1-4 7. Armor Comp skills 1-4 8. repeat #1-4 training to level 5 9. repeat #5-6 training to level 5
Something like that... and don't be afraid to interleave with other skills, like gunnery, navigation, EW, whenever you need them
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Ghengis Tia
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.07.18 19:19:00 -
[3]
Armor compensation skills only work with passive modules. Active Hardeners (which most Armor tank setups use) are not affected by bonuses you get with comp skills.
They do say that you get "3% increase with each level when active modules are not activated". Who would fit an active module and not activate it when you need it?
Check the setups for ships you want to fly. If they refer to active modules in the tank then I would make training Armor Compensation Skills my lowest priority.
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Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
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Posted - 2008.07.19 04:00:00 -
[4]
Get them all to IV first.
Then I would go:
Energy System Operations V Hull Upgrades to V Mechanic V Energy Management V Repair Systems V
Then the armor comp skills to V. __________________________________________________
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.19 10:14:00 -
[5]
EANM is a passive mod. . .its worth going to 4 on all the comps just for that. Also, with armor comps to 5, its just as good to use a passive then an active mod. It is a different story with shields (where the invul is active).
It seems like you have a lot of the skills you need already - just remember to train remote armor rep too... ----
GO BLUE!! |
Blue Disk
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Posted - 2008.07.20 14:16:00 -
[6]
Armor compensation isn't worth it on passive hardeners either. When it says you get a 3% boost, that is 3% of the 15% that the EANM gives you. 3% of 15% is .45%. Not worth it at all. Plus, remember that an increase of .45% doesn't mean your 60% hardening goes to 60.45% since you get .45% of the remaining 40%, so you really get even less.
I assume this skill was nerfed at some point long ago.
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z0de
Gallente The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.07.20 15:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky EANM is a passive mod. . .its worth going to 4 on all the comps just for that. Also, with armor comps to 5, its just as good to use a passive then an active mod.
Care to back this up? I've seen it said before but with no actual numbers/fits and cant make it work myself.
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Marine HK4861
Caldari Radical Technologies
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Posted - 2008.07.20 17:48:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Blue Disk Armor compensation isn't worth it on passive hardeners either. When it says you get a 3% boost, that is 3% of the 15% that the EANM gives you. 3% of 15% is .45%. Not worth it at all. Plus, remember that an increase of .45% doesn't mean your 60% hardening goes to 60.45% since you get .45% of the remaining 40%, so you really get even less.
Did you mean active hardeners when turned off? Otherwise you're reading the wrong part of the skill description.
To passive hardeners like the EANM, you get a 5% bonus per level, so with the comp skills to 5, you get a 25% boost to the module's effectiveness.
A T2 passive hardener goes up to 46.9% with the skill to 5, while a T2 active hardener has a resist of 55%. The main reason for using passives over actives (aside from fitting reasons) is that the passive hardener doesn't draw cap, which in a long fight or against ships using neuts/nos, can be of critical importance.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2008.07.20 18:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Marine HK4861 The main reason for using passives over actives (aside from fitting reasons) is that the passive hardener doesn't draw cap, which in a long fight or against ships using neuts/nos, can be of critical importance.
Another main reason is that passive adaptive platings are only passive. There is no active adaptive plating.
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Blue Disk
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Posted - 2008.07.21 14:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: z0de Care to back this up? I've seen it said before but with no actual numbers/fits and cant make it work myself.
There used to be a sticky thread that explained how these skills work. Now I can't find it. However, the sticky post confirmed what EFT told me. And here's a post I found while trying to find that sticky one where someone trained one of the skills to level 5 and got a 1.33% bonus. Another person claimed 5%, but that's not what I get in EFT on any of the ships I've tried. I also checked the Eve Wiki and I can't find the article that I was looking for.
Originally by: Marine HK4861 To passive hardeners like the EANM, you get a 5% bonus per level, so with the comp skills to 5, you get a 25% boost to the module's effectiveness.
That's 25% of whatever the item gave you. So for an EANM II that's 25% of 20% which is 5% (BTW - I did write that post off the top of my head, so I may have mixed-up the 3% and 5% bonus numbers.)
Originally by: Marine HK4861 A T2 passive hardener goes up to 46.9% with the skill to 5, while a T2 active hardener has a resist of 55%...
Go run this though EFT and you will see that training armor compensation from 0 to 5 has no more than a few percentage points (probably less than that) of difference. I don't know where you are getting 46.9% from unless that includes the resistances that were already on the armor.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.21 15:49:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Estel Arador on 21/07/2008 15:51:26
Originally by: Blue Disk There used to be a sticky thread that explained how these skills work. Now I can't find it.
I don't know if you mean this one, but this thread (my thread )is linked to in a sticky and does explain it in a detailed manner.
Originally by: Blue Disk
Originally by: Marine HK4861 A T2 passive hardener goes up to 46.9% with the skill to 5, while a T2 active hardener has a resist of 55%...
Go run this though EFT and you will see that training armor compensation from 0 to 5 has no more than a few percentage points (probably less than that) of difference. I don't know where you are getting 46.9% from unless that includes the resistances that were already on the armor.
If you "dont know" where Marine HK4861 got that number it shows 2 things: 1) Your ignorance on this subject; and 2) Your over-reliance on EFT - that is assuming you're right about EFT adding just a few percentage points - which I honestly doubt, I think you just pulled that "a few percentage points (probably less than that)" from thin air.
Instead of using/referring to EFT just use the information from ingame and some simple math to see the effect.
Energized <type> Membrane II (passive armour hardener) Base resist modifier: 37.5% Bonus from skill at level 5: 25% Simple math: -37.5 * 1.25 = 46.875
The skill adds more than 9 percentage points for these mods, that's a cold, hard fact which you really should've figured out before going clackity click on your keyboard.
Estel Arador corp services (high-sec POS/JCs) just 120M isk! |
Grods
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Posted - 2008.07.22 18:50:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Blue Disk Armor compensation isn't worth it on passive hardeners either. When it says you get a 3% boost, that is 3% of the 15% that the EANM gives you. 3% of 15% is .45%. Not worth it at all. Plus, remember that an increase of .45% doesn't mean your 60% hardening goes to 60.45% since you get .45% of the remaining 40%, so you really get even less.
I assume this skill was nerfed at some point long ago.
Uh, not sure what you are on about. Leveling armor compensation from 0 to 4 increased my explosive resistance from 71 to 76 when using EANM. So it IS worth it.
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Shereza
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Posted - 2008.07.23 03:54:00 -
[13]
If you use active hardeners and you PvP with them you really should train in the compensation skills. If you use active hardeners and you run missions where you get a lot of Blood Raiders, and therefore cap warfare, training compensation skills is a smart idea.
Why?
Well, a T2 hardener provides 55% resistance bonus, and that's great, really, but what happens when someone neutralizes your cap or something vamps your cap to 0? That wonderful 55% resistance bonus drops to 1%, unless you have compensation skills.
I don't know about anyone else but I'd take a few days to train to at least 4 in compensation skills just to have 12% resistance when I have no cap instead of having just 1%. That is, however, just my opinion.
Though it is really amusing how the bonuses are applied differently. Offline active booster bonus is (1% * (skill level * 3%)) while the passive booster bonus is (base bonus * (1+(skill level * 5% / 100))).
It's really fun stuff when you look at shield hardeners though. At max compensation skills an invulnerability field is 25% online but 15% offline. ____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
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