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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.07.20 04:12:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Ong
Just about to get into this myself (along with the mega) as far as i can see the hype is for gate camping and long fleet engaments with multiple fights, both of which require active tanking.
The mega is for small fleet, hit and gun ganking, or as part of LARGE fleets where no tank is gunna save u if made primary, in which case u kill as much as u can before u go pop.
tbh its better then the maelstrom, as it gets much the same damage and tank, but can tackle also, but not quite as good as a Rokh & Abbadon.
Very few fleet engagements today are best served with an active tanked ship, and even fewer 'require' an active tank. Even in situations where you need an active tank, it's not clear that the hyperion is the superior choice over the mega. As far as comparisons to other ships, to be honest you need to look at a role/setup in assessing this. Comparing the ships in the abstract really doesn't accomplish much.
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Ong
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Posted - 2008.07.20 04:30:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: Ong
Just about to get into this myself (along with the mega) as far as i can see the hype is for gate camping and long fleet engaments with multiple fights, both of which require active tanking.
The mega is for small fleet, hit and gun ganking, or as part of LARGE fleets where no tank is gunna save u if made primary, in which case u kill as much as u can before u go pop.
tbh its better then the maelstrom, as it gets much the same damage and tank, but can tackle also, but not quite as good as a Rokh & Abbadon.
Very few fleet engagements today are best served with an active tanked ship, and even fewer 'require' an active tank. Even in situations where you need an active tank, it's not clear that the hyperion is the superior choice over the mega. As far as comparisons to other ships, to be honest you need to look at a role/setup in assessing this. Comparing the ships in the abstract really doesn't accomplish much.
first off the guy asked what the role of the hype is, that is what, imo the role is, a close range bs that can ade in tackling in situations where some prefer active tanks to plate.
second, i compared it to those ships as the other race's t3 bs's, and assuming closeup setups, which is how they would be mainly setup.
and as for accomplishing things, im not quite sure what trolling accomplishes, but you seem to like it :S
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.07.20 04:37:00 -
[33]
Touchy touchy. A little disagreement and you scream troll? Get off the defensive, heh, it's a forum. People will respond to your post, and they aren't all trolls. 
From reading your post, I got the impression, right or wrong, that you were suggesting an active tank is useful in all but the largest fleet situations, which isn't true really. It doesn't take much DPS at all before you reach the point where a buffer tank would be preferred (a few ships maybe).
As far as T3 BS's, I have to just say el oh el. Rokh is almost always a close-range setup? Sure, I guess, if you forget the fact it's one of the better snipers. Maelstrom is also the best sniper the Matar can field, so I wouldn't say it's a slam dunk that it will be fit with autocannons. Abaddon, sure, ok, I'll agree it's typically a close-range ship. When 2/3 are their race's best snipers, I don't think you can 'assume' they'll be close-range ships.
That said, I don't think we're disagreeing on all that much. The Hyp is only useful atm in a handful of situations, but that's mainly due to the fact that active tanking in general is only useful in a handful of situations.
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Ong
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Posted - 2008.07.20 04:57:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Boz Well
Touchy touchy. A little disagreement and you scream troll? Get off the defensive, heh, it's a forum. People will respond to your post, and they aren't all trolls.
From reading your post, I got the impression, right or wrong, that you were suggesting an active tank is useful in all but the largest fleet situations, which isn't true really. It doesn't take much DPS at all before you reach the point where a buffer tank would be preferred (a few ships maybe).
As far as T3 BS's, I have to just say el oh el. Rokh is almost always a close-range setup? Sure, I guess, if you forget the fact it's one of the better snipers. Maelstrom is also the best sniper the Matar can field, so I wouldn't say it's a slam dunk that it will be fit with autocannons. Abaddon, sure, ok, I'll agree it's typically a close-range ship. When 2/3 are their race's best snipers, I don't think you can 'assume' they'll be close-range ships.
That said, I don't think we're disagreeing on all that much. The Hyp is only useful atm in a handful of situations, but that's mainly due to the fact that active tanking in general is only useful in a handful of situations.
lol well if you would have made those points rather then just saying everything i posted was wrong and that i didnt accomplish much i wouldn't have said you trolled.
anyway........ your quite right the mael and rokh are both good snipeing bs's no question, however i must say that about 75% of the times ive flown with them in fleet they have been upclose setups. the rokh can have one hell of a tank and dps, it must be said though that outside of 0.0 snipeing bs's arent used all that much anymore, infact i cant actually remember the last time i was in a fleet with a snipe fitted bs.
but yeh essentially i think the hype has a very limited role on the battlefield, be it snipe or close up.
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.07.20 05:08:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ong
Originally by: Boz Well
Touchy touchy. A little disagreement and you scream troll? Get off the defensive, heh, it's a forum. People will respond to your post, and they aren't all trolls.
From reading your post, I got the impression, right or wrong, that you were suggesting an active tank is useful in all but the largest fleet situations, which isn't true really. It doesn't take much DPS at all before you reach the point where a buffer tank would be preferred (a few ships maybe).
As far as T3 BS's, I have to just say el oh el. Rokh is almost always a close-range setup? Sure, I guess, if you forget the fact it's one of the better snipers. Maelstrom is also the best sniper the Matar can field, so I wouldn't say it's a slam dunk that it will be fit with autocannons. Abaddon, sure, ok, I'll agree it's typically a close-range ship. When 2/3 are their race's best snipers, I don't think you can 'assume' they'll be close-range ships.
That said, I don't think we're disagreeing on all that much. The Hyp is only useful atm in a handful of situations, but that's mainly due to the fact that active tanking in general is only useful in a handful of situations.
lol well if you would have made those points rather then just saying everything i posted was wrong and that i didnt accomplish much i wouldn't have said you trolled.
anyway........ your quite right the mael and rokh are both good snipeing bs's no question, however i must say that about 75% of the times ive flown with them in fleet they have been upclose setups. the rokh can have one hell of a tank and dps, it must be said though that outside of 0.0 snipeing bs's arent used all that much anymore, infact i cant actually remember the last time i was in a fleet with a snipe fitted bs.
but yeh essentially i think the hype has a very limited role on the battlefield, be it snipe or close up.
Meh, read my post again and I think you'll see you're just being a bit defensive here. I'm pretty sure I never said you're 100% wrong. I'm pretty sure I never even mentioned whether you're right or wrong, either in whole or in part. And why would I, since on most points I tend to agree with you? Just because I made a point about one minute thing, that doesn't mean that I'm trashing you or your post, heh.
With regard to comparing the ships, I stand by the statement that comparing Maelstrom to Hyperion, without more, doesn't accomplish much. I suppose you can take all reasonable fits for those ships and take an average somehow (?) and compare them that way. But aside from that, you need to look at the ships fit for a specific role if you want to do a valid comparison. I'm not saying your post was worthless (again, actually read what I wrote, instead of just assuming flames). I'm simply saying that any comparison in the abstract doesn't accomplish much.
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Ong
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Posted - 2008.07.20 05:34:00 -
[36]
so every time i respond to your post im being defensive, although when u do your not? not quite sure how that works, but oh well.
and yeh your totally right comparing a snipe fit to a close up fit, obviously doesent work. i did however say "assuming closeup setups", and assuming this, and that the mael and hype's bonus's are both to rep and both to gun (damage and rof are very simmilar) im not sure your right about not gaining much in comparing them.
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.07.20 05:44:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ong
so every time i respond to your post im being defensive, although when u do your not? not quite sure how that works, but oh well.
and yeh your totally right comparing a snipe fit to a close up fit, obviously doesent work. i did however say "assuming closeup setups", and assuming this, and that the mael and hype's bonus's are both to rep and both to gun (damage and rof are very simmilar) im not sure your right about not gaining much in comparing them.
I simply said you're being defensive because you assumed immediately I was trolling/flaming and then expected me to spell out my post, heh, when I think you just misread my post to begin with.
Still, comparing Mael and Hyp, one difference is going to be range. At least with some setups, the Maelstrom can reach out fairly far and touch someone with AC/barrage. Still, I have no doubt blasters will win in their range and even a bit past it (AC's don't really outdamage anything atm unless you're deep into falloff and the opponent doesn't have a viable long-range ammo like scorch). As far as how the active tanks match up between hyp/mael in pvp, I have no idea, lol. I know a cap boosting Mael can get a pretty nice active tank with an XL booster, but I've never tried fitting a Hyp for pure active tankage. I'd guess it comes out about the same as the Mael, but I honestly don't know. This of course leads back to active tanking being a real niche role atm, haha.
I tend to just plate my Phoon and use that, instead of active tanking a Mael. I'd probably recommend gallente plate their mega and do the same. 
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BiggestT
Caldari
Fun Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.20 05:55:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Akuma Tsukai
some sort of perversion which is interesting to try.
poudly annoying fc's since 2007 |
Ong
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Posted - 2008.07.20 06:05:00 -
[39]
ok so assuming both the mael and hype are actve tanked, close range setups, the hype can tank 880dps and put out 763, the mael can tank 834 and put out 908 dps, both simillar, the reason i would say the hype is better is that a mwd is almost essential in pvp and the mael cant fit that. the mael also cant tackle so anyone fighting a mael can simply just warp off. so and this is imo the hype is better :)
im also a matar pilot, does a plated phoon work? i always think of a plate ship needing high dps as well, and no matter how many fits ive tried on a phoon ive never got decent damage out of it, mainly due to the split highslot lay-out.
and yeh the plate mega is awesome (in all honesty im training gael to get the gankathron, the hype is simply a bonus lol)
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Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.20 07:07:00 -
[40]
Honestly the hyp is good for fights with only a few people, anything more than that and buffer anything is better. Active tanking in general seems to just suck really. Fix that and you fix the hyp, thats it.
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.20 07:49:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Grimpak on 20/07/2008 07:50:18
the hype suffers from the same problems that plague the minmatar and the amarr tier3 BS'es, wich is a repetition of the role other ships have. Obvious exception goes to the rohk, wich pretty much completes the BS family.
while it's true that either the abbadon, the maelstrom and the hype do have good things going for them, the truth is that they are either shadowed by their tier1 or tier2 brothers, or make them obsolete.
in the case of amarr, the abbadon role can be somewhat debatable, since it can pack a nice buffer tank and firepower, while the maelstrom introduction made the tempest somewhat redundant, and the hype is just the repetition of the megathron.
tbh and in my opinion, if making the mega a more multi-purpose ship (good blaster ship, good rail ship), the hype should be the blaster BS of choice, by swapping the repping bonus for a RoF bonus. Would pack nearly overpowered damage, true, but it would be balanced by the fact that it would eat cap faster than a fat kid eats burgers and have the same resistance of a paper-thin tank.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Captator
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.07.20 08:50:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Grimpak
it would eat cap faster than a fat kid eats burgers and have the same resistance of a paper-thin tank.
I like your turn of phrase sirrah 
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Dormuth Purifier
Decorum Inc
Tygris Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.20 10:12:00 -
[43]
The Hype is the best looking bs, 'nuff sad.And good for ratting with style.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2008.07.20 12:15:00 -
[44]
Hype is quite nice for Low Sec when you need to tank the Sentrys to. Also it has the adition of a extra Med Slot that comes quite handy for a Sensorbooster.
Other than that I allways prefere the Mega it packs more punch in general and is more flexible with smaller Targets because of the Tracking Bonus.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Jimmycs83
Gallente
The Angry Mob
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Posted - 2008.07.20 13:35:00 -
[45]
Agreeing with the people above me that basically active tanking isn't very viable in most pvp situations and that's pretty much the problem with the hype atm. Sure it can be useful for some very small gang low sec stuff but that doesnt really account for a significant enough part of eve to have it left as it is for that alone. It should also be noted that running dual rep and 8 blaster with the extreme close range of blasters (and therefore having to run an MWD) really gives you big problems with cap.
Also agreeing with the people who wrote that having two bs that fulfill the same role just seems a bit wrong, same as with the Amarr BS. I would personally like to see CCP do a big change round with all the Gal/Amarr BS to make them fit in with the cruiser/frig type roles to add a bit of variety to the whole class.
so... Gallente Tech 1 BS :
Tier 1 - Sensor Damp and Hybrid Turret Bonus
Tier 2 - Domi - Drones
Tier 3 - Turret BS for blaster/fleet
Tech 2 would also make alot more sense with this as you could then go :
Marauder - Domi hull (which tbh is by far the best tech 1 NPCing ship anyway)
Cloaky BS - Designed for sniping. (Which again make more sense as you really dont want these expensive bs bieng designed for close range with drones  )
Amarr should also then follow the same bonus types as with the cruisers with one bs with neut and Tracking disruptor bonus, one Fleet/tank BS and one gank boat.
Jimmy
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