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TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.05.25 00:10:00 -
[31]
Edited by: TornSoul on 25/05/2004 00:16:22
Originally by: Helison Splitting the money into more rounds is a very bad idea. We have already calculated of winning the whole pot and not the half.
It's incredible...
By not splitting the money: You would *not* have won the whole pot. You would have won the first prize (if lucky).
Why? - Becuase ppl asked us to split up the prize.
As we decided this, we furthermore decided (again listening to those posting on the fourms) on a top prize of 1 billion. This seemed to be about the amount most ppl found 'reasonable' any one persone should win in one go.
So *noone* is/was going to win the full pot of 3.8 billion for themself, becuase of the wish for this cap.
Splitting the pot over more rounds or not : The most ISK in one go people can win will be 1 billion (Again : This by ways of 'popular demand')
So *nothing* has been taken away from anyone (as the prize is 'capped')
You are furthermore given the *option* of trying to win 1 Billion again in further rounds if you so desire.
The rules changed : Yes they did - "By popular demand"
It was asked that there was a max on what you could win. It was asked to split up the prize. (more or less saying the same thing really)
We have made both changes.
Also : By having 3 prizes instead of the usual one prize only, everyones chance of winning 'something' has tripled. BIG Lottery
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Geller
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Posted - 2004.05.25 00:26:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Geller on 25/05/2004 00:30:27 Edited by: Geller on 25/05/2004 00:28:54 Edited by: Geller on 25/05/2004 00:27:49 I'm sorry but this is absolutely rediculous - it's fraud and there is no doubt about it.
Initially we stood to see a payout of approximately 3,825,000,000 ISK of which approximately 3,800,000,000 was from ticket sales. This works out as a 100.65% payout - pretty impressive - most Vegas Casinos offer a max payout at 98.5% so that the Casino makes a profit.
Once we change the payout to 1,750,000,000, but take 3,825,000,000 ISK in ticket sales the payout drops to 46.05% which has got to be considered the most pathetic payout ever - most national lotteries (which are notoriously poor gambles) payout at least 65%.
But this doesn't cover the full horror of it. The payout will not increase as people put money in. Each ticket pought will reduce that percentage making this the most inadvisable gamble of all time.
Previous Big Lotteries have been to good too be true - any payout over 100% means that the organisers are running at a loss, but this draw will make up for it, completely reversing the trend with a draw that is clearly fixed.
I'm not going to demand my money back - I feel that it was well invested in the draw for the Imp Apoc, but I will never again put money into a BIG lottery if this travesty goes ahead.
Please think about what you are doing, to your customers, to your lottery and above all to your reputation. If you carry on with this BIGs name will be dirt.
Annoyed,
Geller
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.05.25 00:41:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Shevar on 25/05/2004 00:42:33
Originally by: tornsoul So *nothing* has been taken away from anyone (as the prize is 'capped')
Yes there is, i wouldnt have had a problem with ie. 8 prize drawings of lower prices, as long as the total pot would be given out it would be cool with me. But since it has not you will take something away from us, basicly said if you choose not to pay out everything the chances become fubarred (the first way(s) isk would have been devided would mean a bigger total pot, either meaning a bigger prize or more prizes).
Also I'll most likely petition against it since the reason the imperial apoc was sponsored was basicly because BIG was not profitting. No matter how you put it, I wouldnt call being able to hold bigger lotteries the next 8 weeks with the money people put in to get the apoc and a shot at the pricemoney (which to me is kinda more interesting since the apoc would only collect dust in my hangar somewhere) something BIG isnt profitting from... -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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sableye
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Posted - 2004.05.25 00:43:00 -
[34]
I feel like you ripped me off now, I guess you seen that big amount of money and wanted to keep it, i don't blame you its a large amount of money, but I bought tickets for the full pot, I don't care how that pot is split it up the more prizes the merrier I just think all that pot should be used in round 28 like it originally said it would be.
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.05.25 00:48:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Shevar on 25/05/2004 00:50:03
Originally by: sableye I feel like you ripped me off now, I guess you seen that big amount of money and wanted to keep it, i don't blame you its a large amount of money, but I bought tickets for the full pot, I don't care how that pot is split it up the more prizes the merrier I just think all that pot should be used in round 28 like it originally said it would be.
They wouldnt want to keep it in corp or whatever, they want to use it to sponsor upcoming lotteries (for which you gotta buy seperate tickets, and they might start taking 15% adminstrative fees off the isk brought in from those lotteries through ticket sales). So its definatly not THAT ebil, the issue is that they shouldnt use the pot for upcoming lotteries because it was stated that it would be used for this lottery... -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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sableye
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Posted - 2004.05.25 00:51:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Shevar
Originally by: sableye I feel like you ripped me off now, I guess you seen that big amount of money and wanted to keep it, i don't blame you its a large amount of money, but I bought tickets for the full pot, I don't care how that pot is split it up the more prizes the merrier I just think all that pot should be used in round 28 like it originally said it would be.
They wouldnt want to keep it in corp or whatever, they want to use it to sponsor upcoming lotteries (for which you gotta buy seperate tickets, and they might start doing 15% adminstrative fees to the isk brought in from those lotteries through tiket sales). So its definatly not THAT ebil, the issue is that they shouldnt use the pot for upcoming lotteries because it was stated that it would be used for this lottery...
Yer I meant they are hopeing to generate large profits though off the back of the money, they are probably counting on taking in way more than 1.75 billion per lottery now (which is'nt hard to imagine given the pot) the excess each week will be effectivly thiers.
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.05.25 00:53:00 -
[37]
Originally by: sableye
Yer I meant they are hopeing to generate large profits though off the back of the money, they are probably counting on taking in way more than 1.75 billion per lottery now (which is'nt hard to imagine given the pot) the excess each week will be effectivly thiers.
I might be naive or whatever but BIG is an honorable corp if they say they wont, they wont... -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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MiloMorai
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Posted - 2004.05.25 00:54:00 -
[38]
Hi TornSoul, Kinda overwhelming in the drawing today, huh? It was fun tho.
I think the point these ppl are trying to make is that a large portion of isk is being moved to the following drawing that they won't have tickets carried over to. I don't like that at first thought but when calmly looked at I realize that it will be really great for the lottery as it could mean a 1 BILLION isk grand prize EVERY drawing!
That is HUGE! If I am correct in my interpretation of what you said. If so ppl need to calm down and think about this.
I collect ships. Can I have yours? |
Geller
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:00:00 -
[39]
Originally by: MiloMorai I don't like that at first thought but when calmly looked at I realize that it will be really great for the lottery as it could mean a 1 BILLION isk grand prize EVERY drawing!
Its not great for the lottery.
1 Billion ISK in Every draw would be an attractor, but who in their right mind is going to buy tickets in a lottery where the organisers have clearly shown they will not abide by their own rules.
Once BIG have set a precident of taking peoples money, invested in a lottery, and using it for other endevours (even if those other endevours happen to be another lottery) noone will ever trust them again.
In real life purchasing a ticket in any sort of lottery is a binding contract between the vendor and the customer. People would go to jail for attempting what BIG are proposing becasue it is faudulent use of the customers money.
Regards,
Geller
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:03:00 -
[40]
@Geller
I'm sorry - Your math is so way of the mark, I'm not even going to try...
Quote:
the excess each week will be effectivly thiers
Huh? That kinda makes it impossible to argue with you, if thats what you think. "We are here to scam you" seems to be the only thing on your mind.
BIG is making zero ISK on the lottery, we have actually *lost* ISK on it (by living up to our guarantee of a 50M ISK pot in the past)
We are doing this for the community - The *only* thing we get out of it, is some goodwill for actually bothering to run it.
And then I have to hear c.rap like that from you... At least go educate yourself a bit about the BIG Lottery before making accusations like that.
You are all moannig and *****ing about made up things. Guess what - How about we simply pack up the lottery and let someone else run the damn thing.
Many have tried - No one have been able to stick with it. They quickly find out the amount of work involved in it 2-3 weeks is the most I think I've seen other lotteries last.
Please realize you *have* a lottery in the first place.
</going to bed> BIG Lottery
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Fruny
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:06:00 -
[41]
Originally by: TornSoul Edited by: TornSoul on 25/05/2004 00:16:22
Originally by: Helison Splitting the money into more rounds is a very bad idea. We have already calculated of winning the whole pot and not the half.
It's incredible...
By not splitting the money: You would *not* have won the whole pot. You would have won the first prize (if lucky).
Why? - Becuase ppl asked us to split up the prize.
As we decided this, we furthermore decided (again listening to those posting on the fourms) on a top prize of 1 billion. This seemed to be about the amount most ppl found 'reasonable' any one persone should win in one go.
So *noone* is/was going to win the full pot of 3.8 billion for themself, becuase of the wish for this cap.
Splitting the pot over more rounds or not : The most ISK in one go people can win will be 1 billion (Again : This by ways of 'popular demand')
So *nothing* has been taken away from anyone (as the prize is 'capped')
You are furthermore given the *option* of trying to win 1 Billion again in further rounds if you so desire.
The rules changed : Yes they did - "By popular demand"
It was asked that there was a max on what you could win. It was asked to split up the prize. (more or less saying the same thing really)
We have made both changes.
Also : By having 3 prizes instead of the usual one prize only, everyones chance of winning 'something' has tripled.
I am one of the people that agree to split the pot. But at the same time I disagree with not using the whole pot (3.8 Billon) in 28. Unless the original ticket buyers has a chance to win it over multiple events/lotteries (in 28 and 29). If I bought 1000 tickets for lottery 27 and 28, (which at the time rule was 27 is for ship, 28 is isk from lottery 27) then those 1000 tickets should apply to the chance of winning 27(ship) and 28(isk from 27).
What it seems to me, what BIG is doing is splitting the pot and allowing more players to enter so it will add to future pots. Kind of a pyramid scheme. Which in the long run will benifit BIG, as players are more intrested in the bigger pots. Currently your not taking isk out, but if it works you could in the future with great success.
No offense to BIG, as I like what they are doing. But this big of a rule change should have been prior to lottery 27.
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Gaheris
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:06:00 -
[42]
...
are all you people thick?
or maybe just selfish?
or too greedy for your own good perhaps?
i think its pretty plain that the 3.5b or whatever total fund was NEVER gonna be given to just ONE person, due quite simply to the amount of public opinion that said it was totally unfair (which tbh, it kinda is). so INSTEAD of having this one time chance to win 1b, or 500m, or 250m or whatever way they broke down all that isk for ONE DRAWING, you will instead have a chance to win 1b or 500m or 250m next drawing, then you can enter again the following one, and have a chance all over again, and then, possibly enter AGAIN and have a chance to win, and hell, if its popular, you might even get the chance AGAIN to enter the next one for the same chance of winning 1b.
so instead of having one chance at 2b, where the odds are against you (simply due to the amount of people in the pot), you have 4 chances to win 1b, where there will possibly be LESS people entering, yet the same prize fund.
now, im no mathematician, but i think if i possibly stretch that little amount of brainpower from my toe into thinking about all this for a second, i have.. 1.. oh noes wait.. 2, or hold on? 3? OMFG NO!! 4 CHANCES TO WIN 1B ISK.
get a fkin grip people. take a deep breath and think about all this for a minute and im quite sure you'll agree that this makes perfect sense for BIG (keeps the lottery pot high)and makes even better sense for the players (more chances to win ludicrous sums of isk), rather than blowing it all the next draw, and then no one ever playing again since all they can win is 50m or 75m or something which pales in comparison to a 1b jackpot for quite possibly the next 8 weeks or more...
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MiloMorai
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:07:00 -
[43]
Try lookin at the Oregon state lottery and what they've gotten away with doing and the low payouts they have. Or look at Powerball, you really think they are giving out all they take in? Yeah right.
BIG is making a change that was suggested BY PARTICIPANTS. Is everyone happy with it? NO. Will ppl get used to it? YES. Are ppl overreacting? PROBABLY.
Oh well, we'll get thru it. I collect ships. Can I have yours? |
sableye
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:09:00 -
[44]
Originally by: TornSoul @Geller
I'm sorry - Your math is so way of the mark, I'm not even going to try...
Quote:
the excess each week will be effectivly thiers
Huh? That kinda makes it impossible to argue with you, if thats what you think. "We are here to scam you" seems to be the only thing on your mind.
BIG is making zero ISK on the lottery, we have actually *lost* ISK on it (by living up to our guarantee of a 50M ISK pot in the past)
We are doing this for the community - The *only* thing we get out of it, is some goodwill for actually bothering to run it.
And then I have to hear c.rap like that from you... At least go educate yourself a bit about the BIG Lottery before making accusations like that.
You are all moannig and *****ing about made up things. Guess what - How about we simply pack up the lottery and let someone else run the damn thing.
Many have tried - No one have been able to stick with it. They quickly find out the amount of work involved in it 2-3 weeks is the most I think I've seen other lotteries last.
Please realize you *have* a lottery in the first place.
</going to bed>
so say you make more than 1.75 billion each lottery just for example say you take in 4 billion again this time around, the next lottery will still be 1.75 billion pay out right? (which this money has already come from round 27) then say you get 4 billion in ticket sales that round , what happens to that 8 billion you made off the back of the round 27 money? now you might not make 4 billion each round but with large handouts you might.
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Geller
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:12:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Geller on 25/05/2004 01:23:52
Originally by: TornSoul @Geller
I'm sorry - Your math is so way of the mark, I'm not even going to try...
Try.. because i am sure my maths i spot on, and at the moment I am try to find even a modicum of sense in the madness that you are proposing.
Also I would prefer if you didnt quote other people and make it look (unintentionally or not) as if I said things which I didn't.
The problem I see isn't what deciding what is good for your lottery. It is deciding what is fair and just for you customers. By swindling your customers you are doing yourselves major diservice. You have spent over a year now building up a reputation which you could destroy within a couple of weeks. Wise up - treat the pundits with some respect and don't just steal their money. Even if you plan to use it to finance some other lottery it is still theft.
Geller
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:14:00 -
[46]
sableye : Take a really really wild guees at what would then happen.
I dare you to come up with something constructive. BIG Lottery
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sableye
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:15:00 -
[47]
Originally by: TornSoul sableye : Take a really really wild guees at what would then happen.
I dare you to come up with something constructive.
You'll keep the money? the point is you have'nt stated what you will do with all the excess if there is any.
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Gaheris
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:20:00 -
[48]
Originally by: sableye
You'll keep the money? the point is you have'nt stated what you will do with all the excess if there is any.
...
are you missing the point intentionally?
or did the fact TS stated in his original post that excess isk from each lottery would carry over into the next drawing, and so on until there was none left, completely elude your vision?
i really had no idea people could be this dim :(
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Geller
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:21:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Gaheris ... are all you people thick?
or maybe just selfish?
or too greedy for your own good perhaps?
To be quite honest I don't think I'm thick, selfish or greedy. I will however stand up on a matter of principle, and what BIG are proposing is wrong.
Originally by: Gaheris
i think its pretty plain that the 3.5b or whatever total fund was NEVER gonna be given to just ONE person, due quite simply to the amount of public opinion that said it was totally unfair (which tbh, it kinda is).
I don't agree with BIG changing the rules after the tickets have been sold, but if all they were propsoing was to split the pot into a number of smaller prives I would not have complained.
This isn't what they are proposing however. They are proposing taking over half the pot and using it for something else entirely.
Geller
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sableye
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:23:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Gaheris
Originally by: sableye
You'll keep the money? the point is you have'nt stated what you will do with all the excess if there is any.
...
are you missing the point intentionally?
or did the fact TS stated in his original post that excess isk from each lottery would carry over into the next drawing, and so on until there was none left, completely elude your vision?
i really had no idea people could be this dim :(
but what happens if that does'nt happen and the excess keeps building each week, will they increase the prize value give out's? they have'nt stated this?
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Gaheris
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:24:00 -
[51]
Originally by: sableye
but what happens if that does'nt happen and the excess keeps building each week, will they increase the prize value give out's? they have'nt stated this?
they also havent stated that they will spend the isk on a smurgleblaster V original blueprint, so where are you jumping to these conclusions from?
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:24:00 -
[52]
Edited by: TornSoul on 25/05/2004 01:25:08
@Geller Answer me this one question : How does this in any way change your chance of winning the first prize of 1 billion? BIG Lottery
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Geller
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:26:00 -
[53]
Originally by: MiloMorai Try lookin at the Oregon state lottery and what they've gotten away with doing and the low payouts they have. Or look at Powerball, you really think they are giving out all they take in?
No I don't - I think they are giving out about 65% of what they take in.
What I don't think they are doing is selling tickets under false pretences and changing the rules subsequent to ticket sales.
Geller
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sableye
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:30:00 -
[54]
Originally by: TornSoul Answer me this one question : How does this in any way change your chance of winning the first prize of 1 billion?
It does'nt but it affects my chance of winning a share of the full pot I paid my 1 million isk to win, I'm not that bothered anyway, just I don't think you should have taken the money then decided to change the rules, now if I want a share of the pot I originally paid to enter I have to pay to enter each lottery from here till the end of time...
anyway you'll still get my 5 million for the next lottery, as a billion is still a billion.
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:32:00 -
[55]
Edited by: TornSoul on 25/05/2004 01:34:31
Originally by: Geller
<snip> selling tickets under false pretences and changing the rules subsequent to ticket sales. Geller
Again - We where asked by the particiapnts, posting on these forums, to change the rules.
We did as was asked - Well knowing that whatever change made would not satisfy everyone. No matter how we would do it - *Someone* would be dissatisfied. I'm sad to see you are one of those.
Just the ways things go... BIG Lottery
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Geller
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:37:00 -
[56]
Originally by: TornSoul Edited by: TornSoul on 25/05/2004 01:25:08
@Geller Answer me this one question : How does this in any way change your chance of winning the first prize of 1 billion?
It doesn't - you know perfectly well it doesn't. The chance of winning in any single draw, with a set number of tickets sold will not vary. You are purposefully trying to avoid the actual issue but not taking into account what is being won.
You are reducing the total pot which by the original rules of your lottery is effectively the property of the people who bought your tickets. You are stealing money from it.
I dont care if you hand out one prize of 3.8Billion, or 1 Prize of 1 Billion plus 28 Prizes of 100 Million or any other combination so long as they add up to the pot. If you reduce the pot at this point however people have a very valid right to complain, loudly.
In real life if I had reason to believe a lottery organiser was doing what you propose I would report them to the police. I guess that means in Eve I should report you to Concord but thats not goinbg to have much effect, so I am making my displeasure known here.
Geller
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Geller
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:40:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Geller on 25/05/2004 01:51:38
Originally by: TornSoul Again - We where asked by the particiapnts, posting on these forums, to change the rules.
We did as was asked - Well knowing that whatever change made would not satisfy everyone.
Its true - you were asked to change the rules, but nowhere can I find a single post suggesting that you grab a big chunk of the winnings pot and reserve if for later weeks.
Lots of people suggested splitting the pot, and sharing it between those who had entered for week 28 in various splits - which would seem fair, but this insanity you have dreamed up is not even remotely fair. Did you consider that it might be important to keep you rules changes "fair"?
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:53:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Shevar on 25/05/2004 01:55:43
Originally by: TornSoul Edited by: TornSoul on 25/05/2004 01:25:08
@Geller Answer me this one question : How does this in any way change your chance of winning the first prize of 1 billion?
Because alot more tickets have been sold then that there should have been to get a 1.75b prizepot, so now chance winning/prize money spent is ALOT lower then it should be:
Current situation (assuming you sell tickets for 5 billion isk, since the drawing is still 2 weeks away i guess you can get another billion orso isk, also im not taking the fa/BIG contribution into account):
5 billion isk in pot means 5.000.000 tickets
1/5.000.000 * 5 billion = 1000 (the original ticket ammount)
while if you only give out 1.75 billion in isk prices:
1/5.000.000 (still same ammount of tickets sold) * 1.75 billion = 350
So the tickets for this round are under the old rules basicly only 350 isk each worth... If it was announced up front i wouldnt have considered much of a biggie (besides confirming with CCP if they consider BIG lottery so important for the gaming community that they should get the right to be able of charging 10% from future lotteries, and the extra advertisement this would generate)
(and yes you can calculate the % between the new and old tickets with 5/1.75*100=35%, but i guess the other one is easier to explain)
So basicly the chances (ammount of tickets) and the total prize money given out just totally dont add up anymore, so what BIG is giving the people joining this lotery is less chance at winning the current ammount of prize money given out.
Also as for the maths in gellars post they are correct, usually payout has been higher then was what put into the lottery so chances of winning a certain prize ammount where better then they oughta be. While this time your tickets "loose" 65% of their value (while before they where a few % more valuable) -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Cowboy
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:59:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Cowboy on 25/05/2004 02:01:30 The GREED is strong here. Buttom line, if I were to win, the pay outs going to be a hell of a lot more isks then I have in my thin @ss wallet now.
"Come on God. Answer me. For years I am asking you why. Why are the innocent dead and the guilty alive? Where is justice? Where is punishment? Or have you already answered? Have you already said to the world, here is justice, here is punishment, here..............in me"
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.05.25 02:00:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Geller
Originally by: TornSoul Again - We where asked by the particiapnts, posting on these forums, to change the rules.
We did as was asked - Well knowing that whatever change made would not satisfy everyone.
Did you consider that it might be important to keep you rules changes "fair"
The only thing I can see as beeing unfair - Is if I somehow changed your chance of winning whatever prize is put up for offer in relation to other participants (ie. somehow making you X amount of tickets less/more likely to win than someone else (same) X amount of tickets).
This has not been done.
The only thing that has changed is the prize put up for offer. Instead of getting one shot at the full pot (3.8B) as originally intended, this prize and number of prizes has been changed (again : by request of those posting here)
Introducing more than one prize however gives you and added chance of winning 'some' of the prize ISK. 3 prizes (3 draws) equals trippling your chance of winning 'something'
You where never going to win the full pot by yourself (as ppl wanted it capped), instead you are given 2 extra chances at winning some of it. It's a stretch, but you could compare this to beeing entered into 3 rounds of the lottery.... For the same amount of ISK.... BIG Lottery
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