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Ceverus
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Posted - 2004.05.24 20:34:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ceverus on 24/05/2004 23:04:40 Edited by: Ceverus on 24/05/2004 20:37:07 I really have nothing against Big Corp, Torn Soul, or any of the people that put time into making the lottery available to the general populace of EvE. I do feel how ever that the way they have started running things is haphazard and isn't a good thing for anyone.
1. Rules should be decided befor any event and not changed, if rules are changed then people should have the opportunity to retrieve their money as clearly this wasnt signed up for. If Big Corp doesn't want to invest the time in refunding money then they shouldn't change the rules. In short once the rules are stated and money changes hands thats it.. either that round is run the way advertised or people can get there money back.
2. If there is going to be a special event lottery, then a decision on how the ticket money is going to be given out should be done at the time before people start giving money, not after the event is over. When the drawing for the apoc was talked about, it was said the money would go in next round, now they are breaking it up to a point where no one can keep track of the money in subsequent rounds.
So now Big Corp has a huge coffer and because people will be able to buy upto 5000 tickets the coffer is going to get bigger and bigger but its not all the 3.8bil previously announced it 1.75bil. So what happens if it rachets up to 3bil? is only 1.75 going to be handed out and the rest goes to bigs coffers? Big has stated they only keep x% amount. Well it seems to me as they are only ones doing accounting that this can be manipulated if you keep carrying over funds.
Anywhoo, just my .02 isk. I think big should take their x% cut out of the 3.75 bil or whatever it ended up being and the rest of money including new tickets should go to winner. Either that or there needs to be someone from CCP regulating the event and keep track of books to make sure this doesn't turn into a scam which could easily happen as the Wolves are guarding the henhouse.
Again I think Big Corp is victim of their success but I think how things get done in next drawing will go along way to their furture and the event.
[18:18] <Eighth> if you figure out a way to structure tank, I'll just nerf it, so save yourself the trouble and don't bother :p |
Korwin
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Posted - 2004.05.24 21:17:00 -
[2]
It's not real money.
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.05.24 21:31:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Shevar on 24/05/2004 21:32:54
Originally by: Korwin It's not real money.
Nope but you need to put in time/energy in aquiring it and thus can be considered as real money. -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Jowen Datloran
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Posted - 2004.05.24 21:47:00 -
[4]
You can have one opportunity to win 4 bill isk or four opportunities to win 1 bill isk. What do you prefer? ---------------- What's a rumor on page one is a fact on page two |
Shevar
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Posted - 2004.05.24 21:50:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Shevar on 24/05/2004 21:52:41 Where did you get this information? You get a chance in winning the next lottery with 1.75 billion isk, but if you want to participate in the one after that you gotta buy new tickets for it...
If it was the case then i would have a small chance to win a part of the whole pot, now i only got a small chance to win a part of a part of the whole pot.
Quote:
By not paying out all of the ISK from round 27 as prizes in round 28, we hope that we will be able to *keep* paying out 1.75 Billion each time in the future drawings. A huge pot usually attracts a lot of ticket buyers. So our hope is, that we be doing it this way can *keep* attracting a lot of ticket buyers, and thus secure that we can *keep* paying out these *huge* prizes. By not paying out all of the ISK right away in round 28, we have a 'buffer', to at least ensure that round 29 will *also* have some huge prizes. Round 28 will show if the huge ISK prize is enough to attract enough tickets buyers so we can keep those prizes for good - Only time will tell.
-------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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crazychimp
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Posted - 2004.05.24 21:56:00 -
[6]
Yep, Shevar
A total Scam
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Sewell
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Posted - 2004.05.24 22:06:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Sewell on 24/05/2004 22:08:33 Edited by: Sewell on 24/05/2004 22:07:48 "omg I can only win 1 BILLION is instead of 4 - scam, scam, scam!"
Really get over it, you would feel really bad if you won *only* 1B isk right? Instead of buying 40 Apocalypses you'd have to settle for 10? The horror!
To BIG: I have nothing against your cahnges and I will happily take part in the next lottery; it adds fun to the game. And that is what EVE is about - having fun.
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Ceverus
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Posted - 2004.05.24 23:06:00 -
[8]
Actually I think one of things that makes a lottery a lottery is that as more people participate the higher the amount becomes. To limit it just because you think it's too big or because down the line you think it may not be as popular is just wrong in my opinion.
[18:18] <Eighth> if you figure out a way to structure tank, I'll just nerf it, so save yourself the trouble and don't bother :p |
TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.05.25 00:50:00 -
[9]
I actually agree - believe it or not.
But the history of the BIG Lottery has shown *conclusivly* that each and every time we have the lottery with a guranteed prize - ppl have flocked to it.
Each time we have not done this, interest have been comparetly *very* low.
Go look at the list of BIG Lottery winners for proof of this behaviour.
Most ppl apperently need to know what they can win before hand, before entering into the lottery.
Human nature...
We are 'taking advantage' of this human trait, to try and ensure we can turn more and more EVEians into Billionaires, by putting it on the table "Here is what you can win". It works apparently.
The more that plays, the higher the prizes - As you so rightly put it. But we need to get them to play first - and the only way to do so seems to be to tell them what they can win before hand.
And it seems that the higher the promised prize is, the more people play - Thus generating even more ISK for future drawings. Which is *excactly* what we (and everyoen else I think) wants - as we can then keep on turning someone into a EVE billionaire each round.
It's a matter of trying to 'keep the momentum'
If (and this is a BIG if) we actually manage to keep this momentum - We might be able to turn someone Billionaire each round.
I dont think anyone would mind that - Right?
Right now we are in a 'transition phase' - and not everyone will be happy while this transition goes on - It's *impossible* to please everyone.
My belief is that this transition however painfull it is (and yes it is - It bugs the hell out of me to see so many beeing unhappy - but again... no way pleasing *everyone*) will end up beeing for the better in the very long run.
(I doubt it but) If we in a years time are still able to turn someone Billionaire each round - Hasnt it been all worth it then?
Lets call this transition phase 'puberty' for the lottery. And we all know how puberty can be - But in the end it (usually) turns into matureness.
Matureness for the lottery - Would be the ability to turn someone Billionaire each round.
Putting a smile on some EVEian every round with 1 billions ISK - That is my goal.
We will see if it happens or not. BIG Lottery
[u |
MiloMorai
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:01:00 -
[10]
Ceverus, you need to realize that BIG has not taken the 10% from any of thier lotteries.
They are upsetting ppl by not putting it all in this next drawing but as Torn said wouldn't it be better to keep handing out 1 billion as a top prize every time?
Also, the amount of isk involved in this is probably alot less than all the isk in BIGs corp wallet.
I collect ships. Can I have yours? |
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.05.25 01:02:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Shevar on 25/05/2004 01:03:43
Originally by: tornsoul If (and this is a BIG if) we actually manage to keep this momentum - We might be able to turn someone Billionaire each round.
I dont think anyone would mind that - Right?
Most definatly not if you did it with your isk, but to do it with isk gotten from 2000+ other people who entered trying to win an imperial apoc/chance at a part of the huge pot then i do. Specially because CCP stated a few times that BIG wouldnt profit in any way... And yes however you try to put it BIG profits from having bigger and better known lotteries. (even if it only was the simple fact that BIG is allowed to take 10% from ticket sales in future rounds) -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.05.25 02:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Shevar BIG profits from having bigger and better known lotteries.
You know who truly benefits from that?
The winners.
If it's a matter of BIG getting 'CCP publicity' (aka favoratism) then that has already been done. Cant really turn back the clock on that one. And for the record : BIG wasnt the first corp in the official CCP news - and I damn well hope we wont be the last either. It's called player interaction - and now CCP (again) is risking it. I hope it doesnt go the same way as the Scope attempt because of... well you know what... BIG Lottery
[u |
Maango
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Posted - 2004.05.25 05:44:00 -
[13]
Quote: Most ppl apperently need to know what they can win before hand, before entering into the lottery.
That's not really a lottery, that's more of a raffle. Maybe you should change the name of the contest....
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Godless
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Posted - 2004.05.25 06:29:00 -
[14]
Originally by: MiloMorai
Also, the amount of isk involved in this is probably alot less than all the isk in BIGs corp wallet.
It is ?
I want a pay rise...
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Faux
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Posted - 2004.05.25 12:33:00 -
[15]
Tornsoul,
My congratualtions on what you and yoru corp have done to the game and for the game. This lottery and the Big deal are good ideas and have helped many people included.
While i might be slightly sad taht i wont get the chance to win all the isk at once.. i am howver all for you folks doing this lottery as you have been doing it, up to and including this current change. A small suggestion though. I woudl set aside a small part of each round to insure taht the minimum prize money that you are trying to establish is met. As we all know.. there is slow times and fast times.. and right now..thsi is DEFINATLY a fast time!!! Faux the inane!
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Dubi
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Posted - 2004.05.25 14:25:00 -
[16]
Well if some people want to contibute to this chance of your lottery fine by me. but I don't wana participate in this lottery so can we please have a refund for thoose that don't wana participate with this new rules.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2004.05.25 14:55:00 -
[17]
People paid money into that drawing according to the rules at the time.
BIG changed the rules and moved the money paid in in that round into future rounds where the people who paid that money have no chance of winning without paying more money.
BIG say they are doing this for the good of the lottery, and to make more people billionaires, I'm not sure I agree that "that's what everyone wants".. It certainly is not fair and I don't think BIG has really thought this through.
The isk that came in came in due to the special prize donated by CCP, CCP said BIG could not profit from the isk that came in, and now BIG want to use that isk in many future rounds ? Does this mean BIG waives all administration fees for those rounds ?
BIG gets bigger from having this lottery, they profit from the advertising they get from this and from being known to Eve players, they don't need the isk from the lotteries, having a billionaire every single round would be great for BIG.
Anyways who cares. Personally I think BIG should give out all the isk in one round and go back to not being backed by CCP in future rounds.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2004.05.25 16:24:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 25/05/2004 16:27:18 I would agree that paying out 1 bbio in every round would be much better then recent history.
But the fact is simple. You promised to pay out all the isk from rounds 27 and 28 in round 28. Oveur representiong ccp and you confirmed this as a rule not to be changed when Oveur accepted the rules you set at that time as being acceptable for ccp to make this into a supported event.
Now you break those rules. This can only equal to reneging on a contract, which irl would be a felony, and in Eve will simply get you some upset people. IF not ccp would have been involved in the last round, you could do this and just ignore the opposed. But they are involved....
Please rethink this decision. If you instead change the rules for next round, or make an announcement that all tickets for round 28 will also count in round 29 (and keep the pot split like now) I will happily continue participating.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues. |
NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.25 17:28:00 -
[19]
Originally by: TornSoul I actually agree - believe it or not.
But the history of the BIG Lottery has shown *conclusivly* that each and every time we have the lottery with a guranteed prize - ppl have flocked to it.
Each time we have not done this, interest have been comparetly *very* low.
Go look at the list of BIG Lottery winners for proof of this behaviour.
Most ppl apperently need to know what they can win before hand, before entering into the lottery.
yup, nothing new, too bad it hasn't taken off... not the EVE-players concern.
Originally by: TornSoul
Human nature...
We are 'taking advantage' of this human trait, to try and ensure we can turn more and more EVEians into Billionaires, by putting it on the table "Here is what you can win". It works apparently.
The more that plays, the higher the prizes - As you so rightly put it. But we need to get them to play first - and the only way to do so seems to be to tell them what they can win before hand.
Good ideas so far... but put in that it should still be volountary for people to enter. Not forcing them to give money for further pots.
Originally by: TornSoul
And it seems that the higher the promised prize is, the more people play - Thus generating even more ISK for future drawings. Which is *excactly* what we (and everyoen else I think) wants - as we can then keep on turning someone into a EVE billionaire each round.
It's a matter of trying to 'keep the momentum'
If (and this is a BIG if) we actually manage to keep this momentum - We might be able to turn someone Billionaire each round.
I dont think anyone would mind that - Right?
Right now we are in a 'transition phase' - and not everyone will be happy while this transition goes on - It's *impossible* to please everyone.
Transition phase is a suggarcoated way of putting this. what you're basically doing is taking money from peoples entry fees and giving them to players who will pay to still be in further drawings.
Originally by: TornSoul
My belief is that this transition however painfull it is (and yes it is - It bugs the hell out of me to see so many beeing unhappy - but again... no way pleasing *everyone*) will end up beeing for the better in the very long run.
No way of pleasing everyone. Try: No way of scamming everyone without some of them noticing it.
Originally by: TornSoul
(I doubt it but) If we in a years time are still able to turn someone Billionaire each round - Hasnt it been all worth it then?
Lets call this transition phase 'puberty' for the lottery. And we all know how puberty can be - But in the end it (usually) turns into matureness.
Matureness for the lottery - Would be the ability to turn someone Billionaire each round.
Putting a smile on some EVEian every round with 1 billions ISK - That is my goal.
We will see if it happens or not.
TornSoul seems to believe that BIG is above everyone else and that he/she can go around making decisions for everyone else while calling them morally correct.
This post by TornSoul has been a political maneuver, which has been done with quite some skill. Good work!
I have 1000 tickets which were supposed to have a chance of winning a pot of 3.8B, now the pot is "only" 1.75B. No matter how noble your intentions for the 2B worth of isk are, you are still breaking an agreement with the players of the Lottery and you are still using their money despite protests made by some of them.
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Doppleganger
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Posted - 2004.05.27 02:25:00 -
[20]
Quote:
Q : How can I be sure this is not a scam? A : You cant - simple as that. Either you trust us or you dont. If you mistrust us, dont play. But I encourage you to ask around if BIG can be trusted or not, I think you will find that the answer is "Yes BIG is very thrustworthy".
Before this last lottery most ppl I talked to said that they believed that BIG was trustworty... since the announcement of this last rule change its split about 50/50.
Sad that good intentions and deads can be so quickly destroyed by one bad decision.
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Mystikos
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Posted - 2004.05.27 02:57:00 -
[21]
It takes money to make money, and I think the problem at the back of everyone's mind is: now BIG has over 3 billion isk to play with, that they won't have to return for (potentially) weeks. It doesn't matter if they keep their 10% or not at this point. They've got a big enough bankroll to finance their blueprint system now, and at the very worst scenario will not have to return the full amount for at least two more games.
The simple fact is, BIG changed the rules halfway through the game. You have to expect some people to want their money back, and it's pretty low of BIG not to honor their requests, since all they're out so far is time.
I can see where TornSoul is coming from, and feel that most players agree, but to change the rules in the middle of the event isn't right. If this had been set in the beginning, there wouldn't be a problem, but it wasn't.
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Gavin Kineli
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Posted - 2004.05.27 04:16:00 -
[22]
Antying I am about to suggest in no way represents any perspective of BIG, or Tornsoul.
Would people be satisfied if your ticket would last until the 3.whatever billion isk were given away? (Say round 30). So the ticket you bought in 28 would still be worth a ticket until all 3 bil were given away. You could still buy more tickets for each round, but the tickets already given away in 27 would still last. Would that work for people?
Play The BIG Lottery! |
NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.27 05:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Gavin Kineli Antying I am about to suggest in no way represents any perspective of BIG, or Tornsoul.
Would people be satisfied if your ticket would last until the 3.whatever billion isk were given away? (Say round 30). So the ticket you bought in 28 would still be worth a ticket until all 3 bil were given away. You could still buy more tickets for each round, but the tickets already given away in 27 would still last. Would that work for people?
if my tickets lasted for the full 3.8B then that would be a solution that works for me.
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Gavin Kineli
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Posted - 2004.05.27 05:13:00 -
[24]
I sent an e-mail to Torn, suggesting the idea. He'll post his thoughts in a couple hours, I'm sure.
Play The BIG Lottery! |
Doppleganger
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Posted - 2004.05.27 05:22:00 -
[25]
Well it sounds like BIG has the only reputable lottery in Eve ... shame it had to be tarnished by changing rules in the middle of a lottery after selling tickets.
Most ppl in EVE have been burned by a lottery of some sort.. I wont even bring up examples from months previous.
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Watching
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Posted - 2004.05.27 17:25:00 -
[26]
No doubt BIG had nothing but the best intentions, but changing the rules afterwards is simply 'not done' period! Well at least I'm not alone, looks like CCP fell for it as well ...
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Gavin Kineli
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Posted - 2004.05.27 18:34:00 -
[27]
CCP didn't fall for anything, I believe that they didn't have any rules or conditions associated with the lottery, just that the Apoc is given away. There's some confusion going on, but it'll all be settled to satisfaction.
Play The BIG Lottery! |
stalefish
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Posted - 2004.05.28 01:01:00 -
[28]
honestly though... 1 billion and 4 billion... either way, that's a TON of zeros. I'd rather have a chance of winning a number with 9 zero's after it consistently, rather than once a year.
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2004.05.28 04:55:00 -
[29]
My tickets(1000) should count until the 3.8 billion is paid out.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2004.05.28 07:03:00 -
[30]
Going back on yer promise ain't cool, you used to be very cool TS...
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