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Berendas
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.19 05:41:00 -
[1]
Hey all, my GTC missioning is going great (thanks for the replies to one of my previous threads  ) and I am looking forward to turning my attention to what really makes EVE shine for me, even after a years absence; PVP.
I have been interested for some time in the Deimos, Ishtar, and the Zealot. My gunnery skills are significantly higher than my drone skills (2.1m SP vs. 700k) so I was looking at the Deimos specifically, because I loved the Thorax, but lately I haven;t seen any threads about this ship, or any Deimos's flying around so this leads me to believe its not too good in PVP? (Let's assume small gang PVP groups of 3-6)
I have heard good things about the Ishtar and since Amarr have become FOTM, and I loved em before, I was also wondering about small gang PVP in these other HAC's as well.
Any advice, commentary, and fits on these 3 HAC's is greatly appreciated, also feel free to ask questions cuz I probably wasn't specific enough 
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Amberly Coteaz
Amarr
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.07.19 06:55:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Amberly Coteaz on 19/07/2008 06:56:05
 Originally by: Berendas
Hey all, my GTC missioning is going great (thanks for the replies to one of my previous threads ) and I am looking forward to turning my attention to what really makes EVE shine for me, even after a years absence; PVP.
I have been interested for some time in the Deimos, Ishtar, and the Zealot. My gunnery skills are significantly higher than my drone skills (2.1m SP vs. 700k) so I was looking at the Deimos specifically, because I loved the Thorax, but lately I haven;t seen any threads about this ship, or any Deimos's flying around so this leads me to believe its not too good in PVP? (Let's assume small gang PVP groups of 3-6)
I have heard good things about the Ishtar and since Amarr have become FOTM, and I loved em before, I was also wondering about small gang PVP in these other HAC's as well.
Any advice, commentary, and fits on these 3 HAC's is greatly appreciated, also feel free to ask questions cuz I probably wasn't specific enough
Well I dont want to sound like a "you need 'x' billion SP in support skills before you can attempt to fly the ship" elitist *****, but im going to have to say you need at least a mil more in gunnery absolute minimum for the Zealot or Deimos and 2 mil more if you want to fly the Ishtar effectivly.
All that being said I would say that the Zealot is the most SP friendly of the three (providing you actually have t2 med pulses already). Mine is fit with mwd, scam, cap booster and a light buffer tank with a med rep and some heat sinks. Its not quite as survivable as the omnipresent nano-zealot however it gives me an opportunity to add DPS on gate engagements whilst still maintaining a decent speed and agility advantage over the Harbinger.
However if all your SP lies in Gallente I wouldn't train for Zealot and despite having more SP in gunnery then drones I would say go for the Ishtar, because its alot more survivable then the deimos particularly with low SP. If I were you I would stick with the thorax/vexor whilst you get the following drone skills up and running:
Drones V
Drone Interfacing IV
Electronic warfare drones III
Scout Drone Operation V
Minmatar Drone spec III
Gallente Drone spec III
Drone Navigation/Sharpshooting/Durability III
Heavy Drone Operation V (get this last)
At this point you can step into an Ishtar and have reasonable skills in it and hopefully you will have enough experience through the vexor to be able to handle drone management in combat (more then just set to attack and wait when in a drone boat). Of course all the skills listed need to be at level 5 at the end of it if you are totally speccing out for the gallente drone boats up to the Domi. As for setups the current recommended fit (FOTM) is rails or artillery in the highs, MWD, Scram, dual LSE, cap battery/booster in the mids and speed fit in the lows.
Regarding the Deimos, until you get really really top notch gunnery skills expect to die in 30 seconds. When you have them still expect to die in 30 seconds.....but kill them in 29 
If you find yourself in a fair fight, something has gone wrong
Originally by: Patch86
OK people, Amberly Coteaz has won life for the time being. Everyone go home and wait for the round reset.[/quote |
Helios Hyperion
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.19 09:05:00 -
[3]
When you have them still expect to die in 30 seconds.....but kill them in 29
very nice :D
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Deltoid
Caldari
Delusion of Grandeur
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Posted - 2008.07.19 10:34:00 -
[4]
I'm gonna have to say either go with the Zealot or Ishtar. And then I'm gonna have to be a ***got and say that you should nano the one that you want to use. In the current PVP climate it's much easier (and sometimes more fun) to fly a nano fit, whereby you can avoid most of the damage directed at you, dictate the range of the engagement, and also GTFO if things go badly. This all contributes to creating the best attributes for Low-Sec Pirating and 0.0 Roaming alike. Some people don't like doing this, simply because it seems rather fail, but it does make things alot 'easier'. Managing to avoid that gatecamp because you just MWD'd out of there can be the difference to getting a kill in the next door system or finding yourself back in your clone vat in Motsu.
Having said that. I trained up for the Deimos a long time ago, because I loved the idea of MWD'ing in, scraming them, and then just blasting them apart with your 600dps+, hoping that they don't get through your plated tank in time. Ofc after a while this isn't too productive, and you tend to lose your ship if the engagement turns, as it's obviously not too flexible. The only nano that a deimos can do is into the engagement before sitting stationary (or perhaps orbiting a little) and letting your blasters rip it up. I started using the Ishtar, and it remains one of my favourite PVP ships, as you can get dps in on almost anything with your large dronebay and the 125m3 bandwith means that 5 Zerker II's can rip up even battleships whilst you fly just out of neut range but keep a point on (or just under neut range if you haven't got faction scrams). Never flown the Zealot, but I have been killed by it before, and can say that it's a formidable ship, and also great fun to fly from what I hear.
My vote goes to the Ishtar, as if you're already Gallente trained then that'll be the quickest to get into aswell.. but you defo need more drone skills, around 2mil will be great. It can solo great and deals insane damage whilst happily zooming around out of reach. The non-nano setup is also decent, but then you might aswell use a domi, which is cheaper and can tank a lot better with dual LARs.
Delt.
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Kevin Finnerty
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Posted - 2008.07.19 10:50:00 -
[5]
Yep. Gonna aggree with the general theme here. Get training for an Ishtar. Problem with the Diemos is that it requires you to totally commit to a fight. Even more tediously it requires you to commit to getting hopelessly ganked if you jump through the wrong gate. I'm talking solo of course, but even in gangs the same can be said.
I'm not an anti-nano whiner but something does need to be done to boost the erst-while conventional playing style. Just a little more survivability would be nice. 
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Berendas
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.19 15:30:00 -
[6]
Thanks for all the info everyone. I have about half those recommended drone skills (maybe more) and I'm training in drones for missioning so it looks like in a little bit I'll be set up for the Ishtar well enough. As I use that and get a feel toward it, I may train for the Zealot in the future as well just cuz I think its a cool ship and I want to diversify.
Thanks again all
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Mr Ignitious
Gallente
Noir.
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.19 15:49:00 -
[7]
One of the above poster said you need III of the specializations, but for the t2 Heavy drones, you need 4... using t2 drones make a HUGE difference.
also, i'd give the sacrilege a thought too, you can get HAM skills VERY quickly (about as fast as drone skills, maybe even faster) and fly it either like a tanked zealot (but a sac will give you a better tank), or fly it lightly nano'd with still some decent tank with the purpose of being able to tank huginns/rapiers while also being able to burn back to gates or help catch lazy other nano's, or you can fly an all out nano'd sac, which for simplicities sake can be flown with heavy missiles for the range. After you get well versed with it though, and have maxed range skills you can get faction HAM missiles out to like 18km or so. Anyways, just wanted to give you another option (oh, and sac is REALLLLLY sexy)
deimos imo is kind of like a weird personal fetish. If you like flying blaster ranis all suicidal like, then the deimos is fun. I'm not one of the lucky wealthy EVErs that can just throw away gank deimos so i dont tend to fly it. Because of its three mids you cant MWD/web/point/inject so it makes it nearly impossible to get a tank fit. Nano wise, blasters wont give you the range you'd want (with max skills i believe its like 5km optimal with 12km fall off, which means to stay out of overheated web range you're almost past you're fall off, really killing dps) Hence it not being very popular, but still a potentially fun ship (if you got iskies)
and as people have already said, ishtar is alot of fun, effective, and looks cool. No need to add to what they said, other than that comment about skill requirements.
Hope this helps =)
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Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.07.19 23:53:00 -
[8]
Zealot is a fantastic gang ship, and can do solo alright. You can go the poly route, and kick it up to around 4km/s wih good skills and 3-4 mids speedfit, but only hit around 33km optimal, or go a mid-range route with 3km/s and like 50km optimal. In either case with Scorch (highly recommended), your optimal is outside of max scram range unless you run an overheated T2, or faction disruptor - that's the solo point I made earlier, its doable but I'd be careful.
Deimos is equally sexy, however you have to be a lot more delicate with it - in groups, its a great damage dealer but once you start the fight you're pretty much committed to it, whereas either other ship is able to usually disengage or back off if things go south. I'd really only consider flying this ship if you had a good scout in front of you, were rich, or soloed in the middle of the night to lower the chances of being blobbed.
Ishtar's a good gang ship, able to either hit with sentries from range or drop Ogres/Berserkers on a target and let others tackle while it zips around and stays alive - soloing? Eh, doable if you are very careful not to hit webrange...
Click me! You know you want to... |
Emperor Ryan
Amarr
Imperial Syndicate Forces
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Posted - 2008.07.20 11:52:00 -
[9]
Hey Berendas , As you can see Is Ishtar all the way because of is survivability It can run your level 4's Pvp solo and in Gangs, Whip out t2 Sentry's or Orges, and in Pvp even a spare set of EMC Drones to Jam a Target if you find yourself warp jammed so you can GTFO safely. And it also unlocks the gang Deimos so When you have spare isk you plan around in this ship. Along with these skills you obtain for the Hac you also make it easy to get the Recon ships and More importantly the Phobos HInterdeictor. So These ships Open alot of doors.
Enjoy!
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