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Annowyn Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.19 10:09:00 - [1] Seems like a decent interceptor killer, so I bought a few and have come up with two setups. -Senti-ceptor- Highs: 2x Small unstable power flux 1x Small dim nos Mids: 1x MWD T2 1x Tracking disruptor T2 1x Warp disruptor t2 1x small cap booster T2 Lows: 2x Nano T2 1x OD T2 -Plate Sentinel- Highs: 2x Small unstable power flux 1x Small dim nos Mids: 1x X5 Web 1x Tracking disruptor T2 1x Warp disruptor t2 1x small cap booster T2 Lows: 1x 400mm RT plate 1x MAPC 1x not so sure. Maybe a speed mod, maybe a cap mod. Drones to flavor. Definitely a wave of 4 light ECMs. With proper management of the neuts/nos these setups should be able to keep it's targets dependent on cap dead in the water. Shutting off one neut will set the ship cap stable. Any ideas that could improve these setups, things that I should worry about using this ship (aside from the obvious), or any additional ideas. Minni and caldari missile boats will be troublesome. Side note: Primarily for solo work in low-sec, small gang occasionally. And no, I do not need you to tell me there are 10 others ships that do it better.
Siadyu Amarr Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.07.19 10:57:00 - [2] Edited by: Siadyu on 19/07/2008 11:05:07 As you probably already know, there are a few problems with your first setup: 1) Dies very quickly to Drakes/Cerberus, Maladictions, and Crows (so not much of an anti-inty IMO, as those are some of the most common interceptors). 2) Dies instantly to heavy neuts or a curse. 3) If you use tracking scripts, you get instapoped by anything with medium turrets. If you use optimal range scripts, they can't hit you, but they can hit your buddies just fine. This setup is similar to your 'plated' setup, but mitigates the problems I mentioned above. [Sentinel, Armor tanked] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Small Armor Repairer II 1MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Tracking Disruptor II, Optimal Range Disruption Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Egress Port Maximizer I Egress Port Maximizer I It's kind of neat that you can be neuted and still do your job with the above setup. It can also tank cruiser-sized missiles for some time, as long as the cruiser doesn't have precision missiles. Unfortunately, it is still not a good setup as it will die damn near instantly to anything with medium drones, which is a LOT of ships. So far I haven't found a way to avoid a quick death to some of the most ubiquitous ships in the game while flying a Sentinel. :(
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum TRUST Coalition	Posted - 2008.07.19 11:25:00 - [3] Originally by: Siadyu 1) Dies very quickly to Drakes/Cerberus, Maladictions, and Crows (so not much of an anti-inty IMO, as those are some of the most common interceptors). How on earth does a Crow do any real damage to that? At 4-5km/s (which is the likely speed with the first setup) the lights will hit for very little damage, while the Crow's MWD should shut off after just one or two cycles of the neuts (so 12 seconds max), at which point he will be eaten very very quickly by the 4 light drones. The armour tanked setup will be slower, but will definitely outlast a Crow it can drain. The only bad thing here is that if you can't get the Crow within neut range you're kinda screwed. Cerbs with precision light missiles will probably hurt - but then that's a case of not engaging ships with precision missiles. In any case it's not going to instapop you, so if the damage seems to be too much, just fly off and warp out. If you can't do that, you have bigger problems anyway. Standard heavies from a Drake are just going to tickle; precisions may cause a problem, but then see Cerberus tactics. No ship is going to be immune to all others, and the Sentinel will be able to disengage these even if it wants to go after them in the first place. Quote: 2) Dies instantly to heavy neuts or a curse. As does every small ship. In fact with the booster, it should definitely be possible to get another cycle out of the MWD to get out of range, if it becomes clear that neuting is a problem. So it's no worse than any other frigate in this case (dies to Curses, runs off from heavy neuts) Quote: 3) If you use tracking scripts, you get instapoped by anything with medium turrets. If you use optimal range scripts, they can't hit you, but they can hit your buddies just fine. Then use the optimal range scripts and keep yourself safe to drain their cap and obliterate tacklers. Optimal Range is the preferable script in the majority of situations anyway, since anything taking heavy fire is almost certainly webbed and thus transversal is a moot point. I'd definitely recommend keeping yourself safe first - if you were to engage a Harbinger, say, without range disruption then you're effectively gambling your ship on the fact that the pilot isn't carrying and using Scorch. If you range disrupt him then you can quite happily orbit at 15-18km, and get to use your neuts. It's a much better tradeoff. Quote: This setup is similar to your 'plated' setup, but mitigates the problems I mentioned above: ... 1MN Afterburner II ... So far I haven't found a way to avoid a quick death to some of the most ubiquitous ships in the game while flying a Sentinel. :( No wonder - AB = you get webbed = you die. You also don't have the ability to dictate range, so taking of ceptors and the like, they will almost certainly be able to coast out of range when neuted before their MWD cycle finishes. In general frigates with ABs had better have a ridiculously long range else they're going to die - so unless you're flying this as a pimped Crucifier and ignoring the neut bonus, you will get toasted if you go within 18km of something with a MWD and web. Overall I think the OP's first setup is pretty reasonable. It's a frigate, it's fragile, and you need to know what you can engage and can't engage, as well as being prepared to GTFO at the first sign of something being able to deal non-negligible damage to you. It's not a solo ship though, and in the majority of cases your BC/BS gangmates will be taking the majority of fire anyway, leaving you free to thread between the ships, tracking disrupting and neuting accordingly. And it really obliterates ceptors, if it can get within 18km of them (which you should be able to do with your speed and manualy flying). Plus it's fairly cheap for a ship of its capabilities, and pretty fun to fly.
Siadyu Amarr Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.07.19 11:50:00 - [4] Edited by: Siadyu on 19/07/2008 11:54:35 Quote: How on earth does a Crow do any real damage to that? At 4-5km/s (which is the likely speed with the first setup) the lights will hit for very little damage, while the Crow's MWD should shut off after just one or two cycles of the neuts (so 12 seconds max) Orbiting at 18km, your speed with the sentinel is around 3.2~3.5km/s. The crow/maladiction orbits you between 20 and 25km and kills you while you do nothing (you cannot nos or neut at this range, nor will drones do much damage to it while it is moving). I agree that if you could go just a little bit faster, like maybe 5km/s, your survivability improve immensely. Quote: No wonder - AB = you get webbed = you die. Being webbed isn't such a big deal. With the AB, you can't go fast enough to mitigate missile damage anyway. And they cannot hit you even if you are webbed while orbiting @500m with tracking disruption. Neuts have little effect because the two nos cycle very fast after you have been drained. It's just the medium drones that eat you, whether you are webbed or not. Quote: I'd definitely recommend keeping yourself safe first - if you were to engage a Harbinger, say, without range disruption then you're effectively gambling your ship on the fact that the pilot isn't carrying and using Scorch. Yes, you are right - a Harbinger hit me for 570 while being double tracking-disrupted at 18km. Quote: Optimal Range is the preferable script in the majority of situations anyway, since anything taking heavy fire is almost certainly webbed and thus transversal is a moot point. Hrm...doesn't it depend on how close it is to the other ship? If it is close and they are both webbed, shouldn't the transversal be high regardless?
Leon 026 Caldari Vorace.	Posted - 2008.07.19 12:08:00 - [5] Originally by: Siadyu Edited by: Siadyu on 19/07/2008 11:54:35 Quote: How on earth does a Crow do any real damage to that? At 4-5km/s (which is the likely speed with the first setup) the lights will hit for very little damage, while the Crow's MWD should shut off after just one or two cycles of the neuts (so 12 seconds max) Orbiting at 18km, your speed with the sentinel is around 3.2~3.5km/s. The crow/maladiction orbits you between 20 and 25km and kills you while you do nothing (you cannot nos or neut at this range, nor will drones do much damage to it while it is moving). I agree that if you could go just a little bit faster, like maybe 5km/s, your survivability improve immensely. Why would you remain in orbit if you're trying to kill a Crow? Either chase him, or have him chase you then pull a loop-the-loop. ------- Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Siadyu Amarr Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.07.19 12:36:00 - [6] Edited by: Siadyu on 19/07/2008 12:43:41 Quote: Why would you remain in orbit if you're trying to kill a Crow? Either chase him, or have him chase you then pull a loop-the-loop. While theoretically possible, it is extremely tough to do this in practice because the crow moves so much faster. Basically, it is up to the crow pilot to make a big mistake somehow. Keep in mind that a neut isn't like a web or a gun - for the neut to work, you must keep the crow in range while it cycles.
Leon 026 Caldari Vorace.	Posted - 2008.07.19 22:59:00 - [7] Edited by: Leon 026 on 19/07/2008 23:02:26 Originally by: Siadyu While theoretically possible, it is extremely tough to do this in practice because the crow moves so much faster. Basically, it is up to the crow pilot to make a big mistake somehow. Keep in mind that a neut isn't like a web or a gun - for the neut to work, you must keep the crow in range while it cycles. Its theoretically possible, and perfectly doable in practice. A sentinel flying at a semi-decent speed will outrun a standard missile's basic explosion velocity (base exp.v 1,750, with skills about 3k). A sentinel doing at least 4k will outrun reliably the missile exp.v. Thus, for an aggressive crow, his only option to damage a sentinel (should he want to kill it), is to web it. Assuming the crow is the aggressor, then all the sentinel has to do is move away in a linear line where it puts the crow at a disadvantage. Attempting to out-maneuver the crow puts the sentinel at the disadvantage due to the speed drop, allowing missile to do damage. Once the crow follows directly behind, doing a loop the loop and shutting the crow down is extremely simple. Assuming the sentinel is the aggressor, then a different set of option arises. First of all, Crow does near negligeable DPS (about 50-70 depending), and if the situation is that the crow is tackling something (because if the crow was attacking the sentinel, see above), then the sentinel's best option is to sit along the crow's orbit path and grab him in a turn. Unless the sentinel's speed is vastly superior to a crow's then chasing him is less efficient, though doing so will keep your speed high enough to avoid missiles should he fire back. In the case where the crow is a fully pimped out 3bil isk crow, he'll still need to get into web range for missiles to do damage. If you happen to have a web (depending on setup), then it'll be tricky for the crow as well. Harder and more challenging, but with a bit of luck its still survivable. Yes, its a bit difficult, but dogfighting was never easy-mode. It just takes some patience and practice. ------- Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Siadyu Amarr Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.07.20 01:18:00 - [8] Edited by: Siadyu on 20/07/2008 01:25:39 Originally by: Leon 026 Edited by: Leon 026 on 19/07/2008 23:02:26 Its theoretically possible, and perfectly doable in practice. A sentinel flying at a semi-decent speed will outrun a standard missile's basic explosion velocity (base exp.v 1,750, with skills about 3k). A sentinel doing at least 4k will outrun reliably the missile exp.v. No...that's not correct. The formula is damage = e^-((vt-vm)^2/1500^2). At 4k/s, you are still taking about 40% of a light missile's base damage. To negate light (non-precision) missile damage, you need to go around 6k/s. Quote: Thus, for an aggressive crow, his only option to damage a sentinel (should he want to kill it), is to web it. I am still a noob at this game, but I have fought a great many duels vs the crow on the test server. And I believe that I can say with 100% certainty that any crow pilot who deliberately tries to fly within web range of me is mentally ill. Simply ****ed. Quote: Once the crow follows directly behind, doing a loop the loop and shutting the crow down is extremely simple. You are going 4.5k/s. The crow is going 6k/s and it is more agile than you. To drain the crow even a little, you must keep it within neut range for the full 3s cycle. To fully drain, two 3s cycles. How is this going to be possible, assuming that the crow is on auto-orbit? Again, it is not like a web where you only need to be in web range for a fraction of an instant. Quote: First of all, Crow does near negligeable DPS (about 50-70 depending) Sixty dps is not negligible when you have 1500 total effective hp. I can kill the crow easily with 50dps from my drones if he comes within neut range. But he will not do so unless it is some strange error. Quote:** and if the situation is that the crow is tackling something (because if the crow was attacking the sentinel, see above), then the sentinel's best option is to sit along the crow's orbit path and grab him in a turn. Yes, I agree. But this requires that the crow not notice the sentinel.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum TRUST Coalition	Posted - 2008.07.20 11:14:00 - [9] Originally by: Siadyu Quote: Once the crow follows directly behind, doing a loop the loop and shutting the crow down is extremely simple. You are going 4.5k/s. The crow is going 6k/s and it is more agile than you. To drain the crow even a little, you must keep it within neut range for the full 3s cycle. To fully drain, two 3s cycles. How is this going to be possible, assuming that the crow is on auto-orbit? Again, it is not like a web where you only need to be in web range for a fraction of an instant. Unless you have just started the engagement (which won't be the case if you've pulled a loop-the-loop), the Crow's cap will likely be at 30-50%, such that it will be completely emptied by a single cycle of your neuts. And as for catching that Crow - I've managed to web a good number of Crows in my slower, less agile nano-Sac, so getting them within neut range is easy. Then the Crow has to get outside of 24km (or 28km overheated) before his MWD shuts off - with a 1.5km/s speed advantage, and given that he's still heading towards you at around 17km when he gets neuted, the chances of him getting out of warp disruptor range and warping before his MWD ends its current cycle is very slim. Quote: First of all, Crow does near negligeable DPS (about 50-70 depending) Sixty dps is not negligible when you have 1500 total effective hp. I can kill the crow easily with 50dps from my drones if he comes within neut range. But he will not do so unless it is some strange error. You're right about it being some error. A Crow should disengage if a Sentinel comes near it. But for some reason, Crow pilots seem to be the most overconfident of all inty pilots - and if they stay around and play, it's only going to end one way, with the Crow's MWD shutting off and him being ****d by your four bonused lights.
Rajere No Trademark The OSS	Posted - 2008.07.21 12:43:00 - [10] your first build is pretty similiar to the one I use: [Sentinel, Standard] Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Fleeting Warp Scrambler I Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Optimal Range Disruption Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Optimal Range Disruption Small Nosferatu II Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Egress Port Maximizer I Egress Port Maximizer I T2 Modules are cheaper, Named mods in mids are for cap stability. Put neuts on "manual" activation, run them as often as they refresh til your cap drops down, then pulse them as you regen. permaruns mwd/point/TDx2 as long as nos is returning cap, with enough cap regen to pulse a neut very often. NOTR How to Fail at Eve

Rixsta 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.07.21 13:47:00 - [11] Was thinking of fitting one of these for anti ceptor work: [Sentinel] Micro K-Exhaust Core Augmentation Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Medium Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Small 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction /OFFLINE [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Basic idea was that you had enough speed (nearly 3.5km/s w/out speed implants) and enough of a buffer to let your neuts do their job and cap out your opponent, then you can get yourself out of web range (orbit at around 15km as neuts work out until 16km with EAS IV) and then let your drones chew on them. Offline repper also acts as a heatsink so you overload at the start to cap them out nice and quickly and work from there. I can't see the above setup losing to any solo 'ceptor or AF, as the Medium Shield Extender II give you enough time to overload the neuts, cap them out and get out of web range to warp off if it gets nasty. -------------------------------
Annowyn Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.21 13:56:00 - [12] Thanks for all of the debate and posts. Have not scored any kills as it is increasingly harder to find targets for me with faction war going on in my stomping grounds (may be time to move). The real issue I find is how easy it is for a frigate to pin me down at 20k with a scrambler, so I was thinking of maybe dropping the bonused tracking disruptor for a sensor damp to force them into neut range or to disengage. Going to keep playing with it as I see a lot of potential in the ship. Not many people flying them from what I have seen, so I think many pilots out there may rush in for what looks like an easy kill only to get the free ride home. Again, thanks for the input!
Deitre Cibrus You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.07.21 13:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Rixsta Was thinking of fitting one of these for anti ceptor work: [Sentinel] Micro K-Exhaust Core Augmentation Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Medium Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Small 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction /OFFLINE [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Basic idea was that you had enough speed (nearly 3.5km/s w/out speed implants) and enough of a buffer to let your neuts do their job and cap out your opponent, then you can get yourself out of web range (orbit at around 15km as neuts work out until 16km with EAS IV) and then let your drones chew on them. Offline repper also acts as a heatsink so you overload at the start to cap them out nice and quickly and work from there. I can't see the above setup losing to any solo 'ceptor or AF, as the Medium Shield Extender II give you enough time to overload the neuts, cap them out and get out of web range to warp off if it gets nasty. This. ----------- Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread. What is this sig missing? Pretty colours? -Conuion Not true! Has plenty -Deitre

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