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Topic |
ghost st
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Posted - 2008.07.19 12:57:00 -
[1]
Lately ive been finding myself playing closer and closer to downtime (im a us player) just so i can get some small gang (10 man or so) pvp. A year or so ago i would logon right after work and start the pew pew, and recently ive been logging on later and later so i can get the same pvp experience.
People are always complaining about blobbing and nanoes, but i think blobbing is a symptom of this overcrowding, and that nanos are just a way to combat the ever-growing blobs. These people always want blobs and nanoes nerfed but nerfing them is only targeting a symptom, not targeting the problem.
CCP is also working on getting better servers, this will help with handling the larger amounts of players online, and will mean less lag for everyone, but with eve constantly growing it will only be a temporary fix, that only targets a symptom of the overcrowding issue.
I think that CCP should be looking for more ways to relieve the overcrowding issue, rather than just trying to fix the symptoms.
One of the main reasons for the overcrowding is the relative low amount of people each system can sustain. Even under the best conditions a single solar systems resources (ratting, mining, plexing) can only accommodate about 40-50 players a day. Stations increase this somewhat, but were talking about a system with good resources. Which represents a very small portion of the systems out there.
So as an estimate id say that the average 0.0 system can support 20 players a day. Alot of people will argue that the majority of these systems go unused,and are just kept as trophy space for large alliances, but the map tells a much different story, with the average 0.0 system having about 200 rat kills per day. So its safe to assume that the reason alliances expand is due to resources, and that one of the main reasons alliance have wars is to focus on expansion for more resources, and alliances that are stagnant for too long will shrink in numbers that reflect the amount of players sustainable by those resources., or will disband altogether.
This lack of resources may also explain the reason why empire is so crowded, it may not be the case that majority of those players are afraid of 0.0, but that more resources are available in empire space. And those players are not able to adequately compete for the lesser amount of resources in 0.0
Ive wandered a little from my main goal, which is small gang and solo pewpew (and also nonconsentual pew pew  ) and not being able to get it at a time that is particularly convenient for me.
I think that in order to get rid of these blobs, (and the other symptoms of overcrowing) that CCP needs to focus on adding resources and content to 0.0. And be able to make the space itself complex and be able to support as many people as the systems in empire. (or at least be able to support more people), but do it in a way which most preserves the sandbox of 0.0 (meaning less npc content, and more stuff for players to be able to develop).
But just blindly throwing more stuff in there will only exacerbate the issue, more raw resources will mean more people, which will mean bigger blobs, that are able to form quicker.
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Zephyr Rengate
dearg doom
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Posted - 2008.07.19 13:11:00 -
[2]
EvE is dead...
 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I will not liek human meat but the naerest I tried is human chesse. I don't want to tried again ...
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.07.19 13:19:00 -
[3]
Originally by: ghost st
So as an estimate id say that the average 0.0 system can support 20 players a day. Alot of people will argue that the majority of these systems go unused,and are just kept as trophy space for large alliances, but the map tells a much different story, with the average 0.0 system having about 200 rat kills per day.
There are far less than 20 players per system per day in 0.0. A single person ratting a few hours can easily account for 200 npc kills. A single decent cosmic anomoly can spawn 100 rats. As spawn rates are fixed 10 people wont kill rats any faster than 2 or 3 (unless its a really big system).
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gfldex
Franklin Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.19 14:01:00 -
[4]
Seams like it's getting better.
--
There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.19 14:11:00 -
[5]
HelloKitty Online looks promising...
Secure 3rd party service ■ Do you Veldspar? |
RigelKentaurus
Flying Tartiflette
Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2008.07.19 14:18:00 -
[6]
Originally by: ghost st
but i think blobbing is a symptom of this overcrowding, and that nanos are just a way to combat the ever-growing blobs.
No, blobbing and nanos are exactly the same thing: "I'm scared of losing my precious ship, so I'll try to make is so that my opponent can't hurt me"
_________
Someday, EVE may look like this. |
justsometrader
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Posted - 2008.07.19 20:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Chribba
HelloKitty Online looks promising...
no sorry Chribba but HKO is broken atm since the blue kitten can grow plants way too fast.....
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Black Leather
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Posted - 2008.07.19 20:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Chribba
HelloKitty Online looks promising...
Tell us all about it when you finish your first month
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.19 20:48:00 -
[9]
blob are there because it is possible to lock whole regions with blobs in only a few key points, so people use blobs to lock them and blobs to smash the defending blob.
Nano are the alternate system to pass defending blobs.
0.0 resources: 0.0 is limited at the player level of resources as the content is mostly geared for corporation/alliance. Currently the big 0.0 reward is in moon mining, but that is done at a corporation level and the returns aren't always shared at the single player level.
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Karanth
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.19 20:49:00 -
[10]
EVE is crowded in certain places, because people tend to be stupid. Meanwhile, there is lots of systems that never get visited.
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Batchie
Minmatar
NOTI Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 20:50:00 -
[11]
Can i have your stuff?
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.19 20:58:00 -
[12]
Quote:
and that nanos are just a way to combat the ever-growing blobs
That horse don't run...And people blob because of the ever-growing Nanos too, see?
But, Yes EVE is too friggin crowded.
The more crowded it gets the less options there are for small corps and small Allainces, assuming you don't want to get mashed, absorbed or pay rent.
N00bs have a much harder time now too, not sp-wise, but game play wise mainly due to the ridiculous number of Empire macro miners, flippers, baiters, n00b deccers and general asshats all concentrated in Empire. In other words, crowded.
More people on the server, much much more macro activity of all kinds, same amount of space since forever, = meh.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.19 21:30:00 -
[13]
Most of 0.0 is rather empty to be honest. There's a few station systems with high populations in but about the only actual prescence most of the time is that of farmers 
I was in part of a gang that raided from a low-sec station all the way to the Goonswarm HQ. Everyone died except me in my Drake (because nobody had bothered to point me)
Safest route back to empire? 43 Jumps, through 0.0, unscouted in an un-nano'd BC.
Thought I was never going to make it, but I didn't hit a single camp or anything. Just farmer ravens in every other system
So no, space isn't crowded. Hubs are crowded.
...
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.07.19 21:35:00 -
[14]
Some 0.0 systems may be empty, that's because they can be reached by a ganksquad in minutes. Remove the smuggler gates already, they were put in back in -04 when the servers peaked at 7k people.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.19 21:38:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 19/07/2008 21:42:09
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Some 0.0 systems may be empty, that's because they can be reached by a ganksquad in minutes. Remove the smuggler gates already, they were put in back in -04 when the servers peaked at 7k people.
You mean when entire regions were only accessible via 1 bottleneck system? (hello Stain+Paragon Soul)
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2008.07.19 21:39:00 -
[16]
tbh i thought it was too crowded already when EVE hit the 10k player mark and it went downhill rapidly afterwards. 
-------------------------------------------------------
Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that.
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.19 21:40:00 -
[17]
More NPC sov 0.0 regions.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.07.19 21:44:00 -
[18]
Nanos are a symptom of the blob - when most of our targets run around in 40-50 man groups, and we can only field say 15 pilots on our best day, either we avoid those blobs or we go nano and get some kills.
Pretty simple, really.
Click me! You know you want to... |
Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.19 21:49:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Soporo on 19/07/2008 21:49:28
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Nanos are a symptom of the blob - when most of our targets run around in 40-50 man groups, and we can only field say 15 pilots on our best day, either we avoid those blobs or we go nano and get some kills.
Pretty simple, really.
And blobs are a symptom of the nano.
And if I and my pals (or any other group of t1 guys) are around they say wtf look at all the nanophags lets blob up seeing as how few if any of us can nano.
Pretty simple, really.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.07.19 21:58:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 19/07/2008 21:42:09
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Some 0.0 systems may be empty, that's because they can be reached by a ganksquad in minutes. Remove the smuggler gates already, they were put in back in -04 when the servers peaked at 7k people.
You mean when entire regions were only accessible via 1 bottleneck system? (hello Stain+Paragon Soul)
Still liked it better than the current situation where these gates on top of jumpclones allow everyone access everywhere all the time, now.
Less is more isn't a big saying on Iceland that's for sure. Creating many and smaller jumps to bypass the all too obvious meatgrinders would be preferable, spreading them out. Instead of like now placing equal grinders on the very rim of known space removing any sense of being in deep space.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.19 22:13:00 -
[21]
Seriously, I want 4 more NPC sov regions. Alliances can't claim sov and cyno jam them so you won't get so many cap-blobs.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
fairimear
Gallente
S.A.S
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.07.19 22:45:00 -
[22]
EVE is very overcrowded.
tactically and logistically a lot of EVE systems are unpractical to spread the population into.
0.0 would be a mess if it got any more crowded and would become a lot harder to operate in. a lot harder to make money in.
The increased numbers in a un-policed area would result in a great deal more factions that are hostile to each other and as such make 0.0 harder to get around.
this would impact both money made in 0.0 and the resources it provides to empire.
The fact is CCP already recognizes 0.0s inability to support the size of the population. HOW? missions. the very fact we have lvl4 missions that so many people spend all their time running in empire proves that eve needs more resources coming into empire than 0.0 already provides.
Take away all the minerals, loot, money and all the general stuff the missions in empire provide and there would be a drastic shortage in resources of every type very fast.
SO yes eve is over saturated.
If you want to argue with me feel free and i will post a very in depth study of the situation for you. but i wont until then because it would be so long winded no one would read it. And ANY dev can feel free to tell me i am wrong. I say i will retract my sentiment if they prove it.
As for solutions. well. there are several choices. Ideally we would have a 10 fold increase in 0.0 regions. None of them can be further out from empire than any current as it becomes more and more impractical for population dispersal the more you get away from empire.
To aid this you would need a alteration to the pos mechanic so that current 0.0 powers cant claim large areas of it by spamming towers that they don't care about but fuel to stop other having a chance.
Access to these regions and all deep 0.0 would have to be significant/increased.
Yet it would have to be tactically viable with short pipelines leading through them. yet having constellations off the pipes that are easily defended. maybe 1 system that leads into 4-5 other system dead ends.
this would allow for multiple alliances in 1 region yet preserve the safety of a area and as such encourage economic activity's.
To counter the camping mechanic bombers and cyno bridges would need balancing so that a hostile force could brake through.
Makeing your npc hunters SS. |
bio spore
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Posted - 2008.07.19 23:40:00 -
[23]
Most 00 systems are useless, you have to look at the true sec rating.
Most 00 systems are -0.1 to -0.4 these make up the vast majority of 00 systems and they are crap, there is nothing to mine in these systems and the rats are to low to bother with.
In fact yo need a minium of a -0.6 system in my experience to find ark or bistot in it, these systems are not very common and as such they are the 00 hubs.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.20 01:40:00 -
[24]
Originally by: fairimear
Edit for npc regions.
This is a very very bad idea. As a npc station area is very very hard to force any one out of.
Stain empire is a perfect example. Not to be starting any flame wars but they like many alliances have not always deserved the space they hold. (even if they do now)
But they have resisted several attempt to move them out because they operate out of a region with npc stations.
They live in NPC stations because it's practically impossible for smaller entities to hold on to Outposts; it's either Nap up half of EVE, become someone else's pet or get flattened by the nearest 50-dreadnought Steamroller because you "don't deserve your space"
NPC stations are important because they allow people to maintain a presence in 0.0 without having to participate in POS-Warfare and all the grinds associated with it.
...
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.20 06:44:00 -
[25]
Quote:
NPC stations are important because they allow people to maintain a presence in 0.0 without having to participate in POS-Warfare and all the grinds associated with it.
I support this notion. Anything that puts a thumb in the eye of POS warfare/Sov should be cherished.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.07.20 06:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: fairimear
Edit for npc regions.
This is a very very bad idea. As a npc station area is very very hard to force any one out of.
Stain empire is a perfect example. Not to be starting any flame wars but they like many alliances have not always deserved the space they hold. (even if they do now)
But they have resisted several attempt to move them out because they operate out of a region with npc stations.
They live in NPC stations because it's practically impossible for smaller entities to hold on to Outposts; it's either Nap up half of EVE, become someone else's pet or get flattened by the nearest 50-dreadnought Steamroller because you "don't deserve your space"
NPC stations are important because they allow people to maintain a presence in 0.0 without having to participate in POS-Warfare and all the grinds associated with it.
*sigh* I wish there were more npc stations in 0.0. Would make things far more interesting than they are now. |
Admiral Pelleon
Caldari
White Shadow Imperium
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Posted - 2008.07.20 06:53:00 -
[27]
Agreeing with there not being enough space. TBH, there should be twice the number of systems, and systems with more resources as well. Reduce the number of pipes, put systems in their own little clusters off of pipes. etc.. |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.07.20 06:55:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Agreeing with there not being enough space. TBH, there should be twice the number of systems, and systems with more resources as well. Reduce the number of pipes, put systems in their own little clusters off of pipes. etc..
Moar 0.0 plz CCP!  |
Taram Caldar
Noir.
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.20 06:56:00 -
[29]
Originally by: bio spore
Most 00 systems are useless, you have to look at the true sec rating.
Most 00 systems are -0.1 to -0.4 these make up the vast majority of 00 systems and they are crap, there is nothing to mine in these systems and the rats are to low to bother with.
In fact yo need a minium of a -0.6 system in my experience to find ark or bistot in it, these systems are not very common and as such they are the 00 hubs.
^^^ This TBQFH is the biggest reason 0.0 is so damn messed up.
Combine that with Cynojammers & Jump Bridges and too few alliances control far TOO MUCH space. Back in the day a region would be populated by loads of smaller entities due to the logistics of getting fleets to various areas of a region. Now? Not so... just jump bridge from your main hubs to wherever the trouble/invader is and blob them out. The smaller groups are steadily being forced out of 0.0 because of this. Thus making 0.0 even emptier and causing more crowding in NPC areas and lowsec/highsec. |
Fabien Aldric
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.20 07:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: justsometrader
Originally by: Chribba
HelloKitty Online looks promising...
no sorry Chribba but HKO is broken atm since the blue kitten can grow plants way too fast.....
kill yourself, now.
THE STATE PREVAILS! |
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