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Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2008.07.21 09:56:00 -
[31]
Jalif, apperently you are not 0.0 dweller. If you operate in bubbles land you NEED MWD, because otherwise you're instantly doomed.
Nd even outside 0.0 youbetter have them - ability to adjust your position fast is always a plus.
You are right, there's a lot of situations where non-MWD setup will come on top because of bettre cap and fittiong. Bit there's much more situations where it won't hurt or will help you big time. So the choice is usually obvious.
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Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
Menerai Entaro
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Posted - 2008.07.21 10:23:00 -
[32]
It seems that a lot of the mwd is mandatory people are 0.0 dwellers. No surprise. I think most pilots realize that not having a mwd when there are bubbles about is suicidal. But if there are no bubbles then the need is reduced. Certainly there are advantages to fitting one, from both tactical and strategic views.
Ability to choose fights, ability to dictate range and of course the simple ability to cover lots of distance (reducing travel times), to name a few.
But while these are desirable traits, they can be offset depending on what it is you need to do. If, as someone said, you aren't going to chase someone then your setup needs to reflect that.
I'm not sure how well loved FW is by the alts of the 0.0 peoples, but say for example you can't run because you are capturing a complex. Or maybe more importantly (not that many think that its important at all  ) you have stay at the point to prevent the bunker becoming invulnerable. I would have thought that the ability to put dps on target would be just as important as tank and speed pretty much useless. I would have thought ranged weapons with some painting and tracking boosts would allow you to push the target away until your friends or his showed up to help.
You might say this is a bit specific, but FW is in the game and it has different requirements to 0.0. So rather than just saying "mwd or nothing" have a think about what else you could do if speed was denied.
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Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.07.21 11:10:00 -
[33]
YANT - Yet Another Nano Thread
Well hmmm Nano HACs costs about as much as 2 BS:es hmm where am i going with this? Yeah check my sig.
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Desu Sigs |
Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.21 11:26:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Aria Seniste on 21/07/2008 11:30:09
Battleships are not nano HACs.
If your gang is set up where you need a battleship to do the tackling, you're already a lost cause. There should be no need for a point. A web, maybe, if it's a blaster ship. Otherwise: Sensor boosters so you can actually lock something before it's dead / escaped. Tracking computers. MWD if, again, it's a blaster ship.
MWD is by no means "required". People spew the "If you get caught in a bubble, you're screwed" line but...
Do you think a battleship that takes 20 seconds to accelerate to less than 1km/s is going to somehow get out of the same bubble before anyone tackles it? Are the people on that gate napping? Anything smaller than a BS has a decent chance, especially if nano'd (in a gang situation. Solo, anything but a nano-HAC, cloaker, or inty is basically SOL).
But even with the MWD, your BS just isn't fast enough. If the gang is running and you're in the middle of the bubble, you're done, MWD or not. Might as well fit more tank / DPS / useful modules. That way, you might survive long enough to get some help, as opposed to pretending you're fast just because you fit an MWD.
Edit: Neuts, webs, EWar, etc all kill nanos very effectively. Remote repping BS are nigh impossible for nano's to kill. The tracking computer fitted BC should work nicely as well, but a Hurricane / Harbinger will be better, since you can use the short range (thus, better tracking, higher damage) weapons.
For a gallente BC, I'd use a Myrm with three drone nav. computers. 10.5 km/s warrior II's, 5.5 km/s Valkyrie II's (Valkyries are the minmatar medium, in case they've been forgotten for hammerheads).
The problem is, as always, that they just run away. Easy to counter, hard to kill, and very rarely fun to fight against since most nano gangs run at the first sign of trouble, and you just end up chasing them around / probing their safe spots for a couple hours.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.21 12:29:00 -
[35]
 Originally by: Aria Seniste
If your gang is set up where you need a battleship to do the tackling, you're already a lost cause. There should be no need for a point. A web, maybe, if it's a blaster ship. Otherwise: Sensor boosters so you can actually lock something before it's dead / escaped. Tracking computers. MWD if, again, it's a blaster ship.
(a) In a *heavy* gang (read: BS mostly), you want the BS which have the spare midslots to have tackle. Tacklers get blown up, and you don't want to miss out on kills because, dang, their anti-support killed your tacklers and now your RR BS gang can shoot and circle-jerk, but can't really kill anyone. 
Also, unless you're sitting on station (or suprising the other guy) you need a MWD for tons of sitautions. Mostly involving burning back to gates / etc / etc. For instance, you jump in a system and want to gank someone on the gate, and some of you are now 30km apart because everyone is spewed in a random direction, and you want to be close so you can RR. If you don't have a MWD, you're just screwed.
I've flown with pilots flying stuff like RR dominixies without MWD, and the situation above happens (jump in system, engage target, the RR BS is 16km away), and I need repping - his response is, "fly to me, I have no MWD". Yeah, with a 90% web on me, sure. Naturally, I die despite having a RR machine next to me, because MWD screws with his precious cap stability/fitting/we. If you can't get to your target in time, you're useless.
I've actually tried flying a torp phoon without MWD in gang. With warp-in inaccuracy (guy was maybe at 5km from target when I hit warp, and you get 2.5km error margin when warping in), a long system so you take a bit to get there, and the target burning even though webbed, I landed 16-17km off and couldn't really hit it properly with torps. Covering even a few kilometers at 150m/s takes a while. Basically, it was a useless ship.
Originally by: Aria Seniste
Do you think a battleship that takes 20 seconds to accelerate to less than 1km/s is going to somehow get out of the same bubble before anyone tackles it?
It takes roughly 16-ish seconds for a BS to reach 2/3rds of its speed, which means reach roughly 900-ish m/s when webbed. So it means it'll take about 24-ish seconds to cross the first 15km. It's slow, but, hey, it's way better then being certainly dead.
At any rate, if you're going to actually fight, you'll want those MWDs. If you jump in a bubble with RR setups and land all 10-30km apart, you're going to have awesome fun repping each other, you know?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint |
Matrixcvd
Caldari
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.21 13:27:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Irish Whiskey
Here's a hint: MWD is NOT mandatory. Read the topic of the thread: observations and tactics this is what I see and what I do. I dont care about you.
For those of you who decided to come here and pointlessly troll, these setups are for simply preventing a nano ship from sticking around long enough to harass your operations.
MWD is not necessary because I am not chasing them, I am not attempting to close range on ANYONE. I am preventing them from flying circles around me by applying DPS to them. The point of not having the MWD does quite a number of things:
more cap
more slots to use
more grid to use
All of you who can see what I am doing with these setups, good on you!
here is a hint, you will never be good at PVP without a MWD. Hint hint, "what did he just say" MWD=PVP. You=No PVPer. Who cares if you have moar cap, moar grid, moar slots, when you can fly or put yourself into range with the other mods you brought. You clearly have no clue of what you are talking about
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Sin inStyle
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Posted - 2008.07.21 13:51:00 -
[37]
Quote:
I've actually tried flying a torp phoon without MWD in gang. With warp-in inaccuracy (guy was maybe at 5km from target when I hit warp, and you get 2.5km error margin when warping in), a long system so you take a bit to get there, and the target burning even though webbed, I landed 16-17km off and couldn't really hit it properly with torps. Covering even a few kilometers at 150m/s takes a while. Basically, it was a useless ship.
So this means there are absolutly no situation for that phoon at all so its complete fail?
Lets take a second to think it out. How about at a gate camp when your the one camping? Maybe at a station fight? Maybe when in a gang and you gate through KNOWING there is a bubble on the other side?
All these situations put the majority of your targets within 15km as do the majority of most 2 sides fights. if your phoon is fitted correctly antyhing within 20km should melt. beyond that you still have drones.
Anyway it possable to live without mwd in 0.0 if know what your doing. And for those that think otherwise, get out of the nano boat and come back to real fighting.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.21 16:27:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 21/07/2008 16:28:21
Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen
1) Tight formation, preferrably close to the gate or POS shield (similar to defending agains wolfpack). This limits maneurability of nano-ships and doesnt allow them to pick sole targets. DONT FLY AWAY FROM YOUR GANG - thats the main rule.
Wrong. While you want to stay reasonably close, you do NOT want to all blob up next to each other. Spread out a bit, that way if the nano ships orbit one target, they fly into web range of someone else.
And re: "you're all just 0.0 only". Nope, while I spent a lot of time in 0.0, I'm a low-sec pirate. And MWDs are STILL mandatory. They give you range control, transversal control, and mobility, three things which are critical to doing well in PvP. While you may get lucky without a MWD occasionally, without it you give up all control of those three things to your opponent, and a good PvP pilot will take full advantage of your stupidity.
This, by the way, has nothing to do with speed tanking. Nano ships just have ANOTHER reason to fit a mandatory MWD.
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Irish Whiskey
Caldari
The Black Fleet
The Black Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.21 19:14:00 -
[39]
for goodness sakes there are so many dense people in here.
train READING COMPREHENSION please
i dont go out in gangs in these setups. i use these fits to ward off the nano ships when they come around my home to try and score a kill. i do not fit nano, it is my choice, so speed MATTERS NOT to me at that time. what i will do is give them an apparent target, shoot at them if they try to get me, then watch them run and possibly have some smack follow them out of the engagement.
Stop trying to levy your beliefs onto me, thats what religious fanatics do and it is annoying.
FFS seriously do some of you think these are the end all be all only ships/fits i will ever fly?
its just a game.
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Trojanman190
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.21 19:50:00 -
[40]
The op is trying to say that this ship will always be within dock range whenever he takes it out. Hence his no need for an mwd.
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