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Author	Topic
Siesmic	Posted - 2008.07.21 11:56:00 - [1] Hey guys My mate who's caldari wants to get one of these and wants to spend his money wisely without being disappointed. He basically wants a good allrounder,missions,pvp etc. I know alot of you said the hype is more for tanking and the mega was an allrounder,which made my decision to go for the mega. Does the same apply to these? Or should he just get the Rohk. Thought i'd ask cause you guys seem to be very clued up on this game. Cheers
Baun Katai	Posted - 2008.07.21 12:02:00 - [2] My 2 cents. Raven and Rohk are totally different ship style. Raven in a missile platform, really good for missioning, less for pvp. I've read about some torpedo raven are good in pvp but i've never tried it myself. Rohk is The Sniper Bs using Hybrid turrets, deadly in long range pvp. Never used for pve btw. So, if your mate wants to stick with missile go for raven, if he wants to change to turrets, go for rohk.
Jim Raynor Caldari Shinra	Posted - 2008.07.21 12:10:00 - [3] Raven is an all round better ship. Rokh is very useful for fleets, probably the best fleet ship in the game (though a lot of battleships are good now). Raven is a good fleet ship too, though it doesn't shoot primaries, it still does very nice DPS though and it's a good EW killer. If you really plan to do a lot of different stuff you'll find a Raven a lot more useful, it's also pretty awesome with torpedoes and one of the highest DPS battleship around. So ya, Raven, though training the skills to fly a Rokh later on is pretty wise move too, you'll get more killmails in fleet fights. >_> ------ I'll make a sig later.
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2008.07.21 12:12:00 - [4] Torpedo Raven vs. blaster Rohk could be a interesting compare nowadays.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.07.21 12:15:00 - [5] Torp Raven usually wins _ THE APPRENTICE \|\| mineral balance \|\| nanofix
SitRep Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.21 12:17:00 - [6] How would you fit Torpedo Raven and Blaster Rokh? They'll try it and decide for themselves ;)
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.07.21 12:18:00 - [7] Edited by: Akita T on 21/07/2008 12:20:36 MWD, LSEs, hardeners, damage mods, DC, extender rigs. Optionally a painter on Raven, but better leave painting for others in gang too, jot just tackling. Obviously, neither is a solo boat. _ THE APPRENTICE \|\| mineral balance \|\| nanofix
SuperChunk Caldari Dire Trucking Varangian Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.21 12:25:00 - [8] i would pit my blaster rokh against a torp raven anyday. [url=http://www.diretrucking.com/kb/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=39173] [/url]
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2008.07.21 12:29:00 - [9] Never flown one of it till now. But in theory and regarding some forum post I'd try a buffer tank too. At least for the Rokh with something around 130k EHP I think. I'm not sure about a buffer tank for the Raven. It would be weaker. But the Raven does more damage with torps. So in small scale PvP a buffer on a Raven (about 80k EHP?) could be sufficient...but it's all theory for me. Some skills left and I can try it finally \o/ In short: Raven does more damage over a bit better range but has a weaker tank. imo.
BiggestT Caldari Fun Inc	Posted - 2008.07.21 13:32:00 - [10] Real men buy a Rokh, attach as many Neutron Blaster Cannon II's as humanly possible (even attempting to weld on extra hardpoints) and become overly aggressive with them. You are also allowed to make terrible puns at this point such as, "Rokh and roll". Lesser mortals get Ravens and worry over fittings, trying to get the same amount of dps and survivability as the ROKH MAN (for he deserves the capital letters) but failing miserably. They can run missions more efficiently though and we all know efficiency is FUN! Would you rather warp into combat drunk, on fire and screaming incoherent madness about tearing faces off with cannons and then laughing maniacally as you turn on ze guns OR would you rather warp into combat hoping that your torpedoes reach the target before it dies, you die, everyone gets bored and leaves or they kersplode for Much-Less-Damage-Than-You-Thought-Because-of-Explosion-Radius-and-Velocity? poudly annoying fc's since 2007 http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast

AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.21 14:03:00 - [11] [Raven, Torps] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Target Painter II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Large EMP Smartbomb I /OFFLINE Large EMP Smartbomb I /OFFLINE Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 1.2k DPS, full tackle, 90k EHP, painter. Can switch the disruptor for more EHP if you know you won't need it.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.21 14:33:00 - [12] Torp raven needs a web and 2 heavy painter drones, then its madness. Without the painters you lose too much dps. I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.21 14:37:00 - [13] Originally by: AstroPhobic [Raven, Torps] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Target Painter II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Large EMP Smartbomb I /OFFLINE Large EMP Smartbomb I /OFFLINE Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 1.2k DPS, full tackle, 90k EHP, painter. Can switch the disruptor for more EHP if you know you won't need it. Good luck keeping anything within range without a web. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.21 14:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Denuo Secus Never flown one of it till now. But in theory and regarding some forum post I'd try a buffer tank too. At least for the Rokh with something around 130k EHP I think. I'm not sure about a buffer tank for the Raven. It would be weaker. But the Raven does more damage with torps. So in small scale PvP a buffer on a Raven (about 80k EHP?) could be sufficient...but it's all theory for me. Some skills left and I can try it finally \o/ In short: Raven does more damage over a bit better range but has a weaker tank. imo. Comparison of a Torp Raven with a Blaster Rokh is difficult. At point blank (i.e. neutron blaster w/ faction antimatter optimal) the Rokh will win - the Raven simply won't pound it's way though all that EHP quickly enough. But the raven is almost certainly slightly faster under MWD meaning it can keep it's range advantage indefinitely in theory. Basically the fight between a Torp Raven and a Rokh is the same as between a Torp Raven and a Mega - either the mega closes range quickly and wins or doesn't and dies. There are no compromises when it comes to ships that sling 1k dps at one another.
Ap0ll0n Gallente The Defias Brotherhood CODE RED ALLIANCE	Posted - 2008.07.21 15:56:00 - [15] Raven vs Rokh, the Rokh wins. Doesn¦t matter if they are buffer or active tanked, though the raven has a better chance with buffer tank. The reason is that the Rokh have better overall tank; more base shield, and the 5% resistance bonus. The Rokh is an awesome ship, especially with blasters.. :)
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2008.07.21 15:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Ap0ll0n ...and the 5% resistance bonus... Well...indeed!
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.21 16:57:00 - [17] Originally by: Ap0ll0n Raven vs Rokh, the Rokh wins. Doesn¦t matter if they are buffer or active tanked, though the raven has a better chance with buffer tank. The reason is that the Rokh have better overall tank; more base shield, and the 5% resistance bonus. The Rokh is an awesome ship, especially with blasters.. :) The assertion that the Rokh just plain wins is erronous - yes the range bonus helps even the playing field but the raven can sling MORE dps at further ranges. Yep it's going to have 30% lower EHP (if not more) BUT if it can keep it's range advantage for a few volleys the Rokh's advantage is gone. It's exactly the same with a Megathron versus a Torp Raven - if the mega gets close quickly the Raven dies. If the Raven can hold it's range for a few volleys the mega dies. This isn't to say the Blaster Rokh isn't a great ship - because it is. But we simply cannot discount the fact that when two brutal DPS ships hit one another the margin for victory or defeat is remarkably slim.
General Spaz Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.07.21 17:26:00 - [18] If both pilots are equally skilled and both ships have dedicated tacklers or none at all, then it becomes a matter of starting range. If the Rokh has to close width, the Raven will win. If the Rokh starts at 0 km, it wins. Of course this is also assuming that the Raven is omnitanking as well, becuase knowing youll be fighting against a Rokh beforehand gives you the advantage of letting you stack up on Kinetic/Thermal. One point to bring up.... Raven also gets 75m3 Drone bay over the Rokhs 50m3, which means he can use 2x Painter drones and 1x Web drone, that, or 3x Wasp ECM's can mean a world of hurt for the Rokh pilot. Even still... Maelstrom is far superior to both of these ships at ranges of 30km or less.
Maeltstome Minmatar Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.07.21 17:31:00 - [19] Originally by: SuperChunk i would pit my blaster rokh against a torp raven anyday. And probably win, until you start fighting high sp pilots. Torp raven will slam out about 1k dps without drones, and actively tank 500+ dps for aslong as it has cap charges. I'd put my money on the raven. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
SitRep Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.21 17:33:00 - [20] Define how high skills you refer to and ship's loadout? Also, that's using T2 Rage Torpedoes, right?

Maeltstome Minmatar Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.07.21 17:34:00 - [21] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: AstroPhobic [Raven, Torps] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Target Painter II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Large EMP Smartbomb I /OFFLINE Large EMP Smartbomb I /OFFLINE Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 1.2k DPS, full tackle, 90k EHP, painter. Can switch the disruptor for more EHP if you know you won't need it. Good luck keeping anything within range without a web. with 28k on standard torps, it takes the another bs 20 second at least to get out of range. With the sig radius increase, the torps still do full damage even at 1k/s. Thats 20,000 effective hitpoint lost. Thats the structure and 10-15% armor of a BS. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
Maeltstome Minmatar Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.07.21 17:36:00 - [22] Originally by: SitRep Define how high skills you refer to and ship's loadout? Also, that's using T2 Rage Torpedoes, right? T2 launchers with faction torps. explo radius on rage is too high. And i refer to 8-9mil in MLO and BS5. If yours going torps, its 3x BCS + scram and active tank with dual Invuls. That's without rigs. I'd be tempted to go with cap usage rigs for the shield booster. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
Ap0ll0n Gallente The Defias Brotherhood CODE RED ALLIANCE	Posted - 2008.07.21 17:43:00 - [23] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Ap0ll0n Raven vs Rokh, the Rokh wins. Doesn¦t matter if they are buffer or active tanked, though the raven has a better chance with buffer tank. The reason is that the Rokh have better overall tank; more base shield, and the 5% resistance bonus. The Rokh is an awesome ship, especially with blasters.. :) The assertion that the Rokh just plain wins is erronous - yes the range bonus helps even the playing field but the raven can sling MORE dps at further ranges. Yep it's going to have 30% lower EHP (if not more) BUT if it can keep it's range advantage for a few volleys the Rokh's advantage is gone. It's exactly the same with a Megathron versus a Torp Raven - if the mega gets close quickly the Raven dies. If the Raven can hold it's range for a few volleys the mega dies. This isn't to say the Blaster Rokh isn't a great ship - because it is. But we simply cannot discount the fact that when two brutal DPS ships hit one another the margin for victory or defeat is remarkably slim. Agreed, it is a tight battle for sure, no doubt, but people keep saying that the Raven can dish out much much more dps than a Rokh at greater range. This is partly true, but not entirely. My Rokh does a little more than 710 dps @ 20km with 16km falloff. Most Raven pilots will have trouble getting that far without javelin torps. And you will also have to count in the fact that torps proberly won¦t hit for full damage, due to sig radius, especially if using the most damaging ammo, Rage T2 torps. Also, you need to count in, that the lowest resist for the Rokh is EM, but it is still @ 65%, where the Raven has a tad less thermal.. But yes, it is a tight fight, and it will proberly be determined by pilots skill points and experience..
SitRep Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.21 17:54:00 - [24] Originally by: Maeltstome Originally by: SitRep Define how high skills you refer to and ship's loadout? Also, that's using T2 Rage Torpedoes, right? T2 launchers with faction torps. explo radius on rage is too high. And i refer to 8-9mil in MLO and BS5. If yours going torps, its 3x BCS + scram and active tank with dual Invuls. That's without rigs. I'd be tempted to go with cap usage rigs for the shield booster. Only have 5.6 in MLO at the moment and BS 5. Particulary: Torpedoes V, Missile Bombardment V, Warhead Upgrades V, Rapid Launch IV, MLO V, Missile Projection IV, Target Navigation Prediction IV, ofc these are not all of my skills, just listed those affecting Torpedoes.
0rch1d	Posted - 2008.07.21 18:00:00 - [25] Originally by: BiggestT Real men buy a Rokh, attach as many Neutron Blaster Cannon II's as humanly possible (even attempting to weld on extra hardpoints) and become overly aggressive with them. You are also allowed to make terrible puns at this point such as, "Rokh and roll". Lesser mortals get Ravens and worry over fittings, trying to get the same amount of dps and survivability as the ROKH MAN (for he deserves the capital letters) but failing miserably. They can run missions more efficiently though and we all know efficiency is FUN! Would you rather warp into combat drunk, on fire and screaming incoherent madness about tearing faces off with cannons and then laughing maniacally as you turn on ze guns OR would you rather warp into combat hoping that your torpedoes reach the target before it dies, you die, everyone gets bored and leaves or they kersplode for Much-Less-Damage-Than-You-Thought-Because-of-Explosion-Radius-and-Velocity? Winning poast. Not because he's right about the Rokh, but because his balls be hangin out, and they be big.
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.21 18:04:00 - [26] I'd go with the Raven. It's a great ship for the majority of situations. Get a rokh later on if you decide to go into gunnery and need a change of pace, or if you need a fleet ship.
Hobo silent Caldari The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.07.21 18:10:00 - [27] Originally by: BiggestT Real men buy a Rokh, attach as many Neutron Blaster Cannon II's as humanly possible (even attempting to weld on extra hardpoints) and become overly aggressive with them. You are also allowed to make terrible puns at this point such as, "Rokh and roll". Lesser mortals get Ravens and worry over fittings, trying to get the same amount of dps and survivability as the ROKH MAN (for he deserves the capital letters) but failing miserably. They can run missions more efficiently though and we all know efficiency is FUN! Would you rather warp into combat drunk, on fire and screaming incoherent madness about tearing faces off with cannons and then laughing maniacally as you turn on ze guns OR would you rather warp into combat hoping that your torpedoes reach the target before it dies, you die, everyone gets bored and leaves or they kersplode for Much-Less-Damage-Than-You-Thought-Because-of-Explosion-Radius-and-Velocity? Man you really put this in un-bias perspective albeit humorous =p $$$
SuperChunk Caldari Dire Trucking Varangian Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.22 04:48:00 - [28] Originally by: Maeltstome Originally by: SuperChunk i would pit my blaster rokh against a torp raven anyday. And probably win, until you start fighting high sp pilots. Torp raven will slam out about 1k dps without drones, and actively tank 500+ dps for aslong as it has cap charges. I'd put my money on the raven. HAHA my rokh will pump out over 1000dps also and overloaded it will melt anything. With my set-up i can tank over 1000 dps. If you overload the invulns you can hit an almost 1600 dps tank!! [url=http://www.diretrucking.com/kb/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=39173] [/url]
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments EVESpace	Posted - 2008.07.22 05:18:00 - [29] My Raven was equipped with the following: HIGH 06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I 01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1 01 x SALVAGER I MEDIUM 04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS 01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM 01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER LOW 01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL 01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I 01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I 02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I DRONES 02 x WARRIOR I DRONES 03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES UPGRADES 01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I 01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
iudex Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.22 06:13:00 - [30] Originally by: Ap0ll0n Raven vs Rokh, the Rokh wins. Doesn¦t matter if they are buffer or active tanked, though the raven has a better chance with buffer tank. The reason is that the Rokh have better overall tank; more base shield, and the 5% resistance bonus. The Rokh is an awesome ship, especially with blasters.. :) It is true that the rokh has a better tank, but the raven would still win a 1v1, if the pilots are equally skilled. This because the raven can pick damagetype and will go for EM against a shieldtanker, while the rokh does mostly kinetik (which is the 2nd. highest base resistance on shields) and little thermal. And if you go for extra high EM, you waste medslots, a good ravenpilot will fire his first volley with mixed missiles, and if it's a 1v1 (where the fight takes a while) he will switch for the damagetype that made most damage and hit you where you have the weakest resistances. While kinetik is the most common damagetype (caldari + gallente hybrid boats, most of caldari missile ships), so that people fit high kinetik resistances (or invuls, which get a nice kinetik together with the high base kinetik resistance on shields). @OP: Can't say much on torp-vs-blasters, the torp raven will most likely outdamage a rokh, especially on ranges at 15km+. If you compare cruise missile raven and railgun rokh, the cruise raven deals more damage on any distance. It has a little less damage against a antimatter rokh fit, but if you add 2 large hybrids (which are not hard to fit, since cruise launchers don't take that much resources as torp launchers) the raven wins clearly even against antimatter rails. In addition to that missiles have the skill to reduce "explosion radius", so they do more damage to sub-battelship sized ships. Also missiles don't have a hit reduction because of tracking, orbiting won't help, the cruise missiles will always hit, unless the target moves too fast (damage reduction starts somewhere around 750m/s). The rokh has a better general tank, hits instantly (which makes it a good ship in large sniper fleets) and it deals damage on fast going ships ("nanos"). The last point is where the raven fails most imho, at least that's the reason why i started to train rails a while ago, although having perfect missile skills (including cm spec. at 5, ~13m sp in missiles). So like most people said, it depends on what you like to do, if you are going for pvp the rokh is clearly the better choice. _________________________________________ Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.50 // Angel Cartel +7.17 // Minmatar Republic -8.49 // Gallente Federation -9.53 Faction Warfare Rank: Wing Commander

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