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Garion Avarr
Amarr
Zero Zero Traders
YTMND.
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Posted - 2008.08.01 07:25:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Avel Kereka
. . . and play up the aspect of them absorbing lesser cultures and forcing them into wage slavery (like they did to the Caldari). The Gallente government should be this outwardly heroic, but inwardly corrupt body which does very ugly things while the populace is distracted by the shiny media.
Do want. That's the image I have of them, and the reason my character thinks the Amarr could learn a lot from them -- he thinks the Gallente way might be more effective in this day and age than the old Amarr ways of just enslaving everyone through military force. Enslave them through culture, instead . . . unfortunately, PF hasn't really focused too much on this.
Though I suppose it is sort of implied, since certain real life democracies have tendacies to do the same . . . I think CCP just doesn't want to be accused of using the Gallente to critize certain world powers, and democracy in general.
Originally by: Avel Kereka
(PS. please don't let Mr. Gonzales write about the Amarr ever again, we might as well add the Harkonnen family to the heirs)
I second this.
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Garion Avarr
Amarr
Zero Zero Traders
YTMND.
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Posted - 2008.08.01 07:39:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Faraelle Brightman
Originally by: Veron Daerth
I dont know, but it just irritates me that when everyone see's the word slave, they jump to the conclusion that the slave is a downtrodden, beaten, abused almost animalistic person. They then make the step to seeing the slaver as a sadistic, bestial demonic sub-human.
Like it or not, slavery is a necessary part of the initial stages of civilization. Empires like the Amarr are portrayed as are also historically socially stagnant or slow to progress on the "human rights" front, so they tend to hold on to institutions and systems like slavery longer than other governmental systems.
It just irritates me a bit to see all the calls for "kill them all, they are just scum" when it comes to the Amarr. And yes, its still silly for me to get irritated about a game of make believe spaceships. Guess I need some WoW time to get perspective?
Just kidding about WoW...seriously...
I'm not sure that people holding the "omg, slavery bad" view *isn't* realistic.
American history example: We know that many of the Founding Fathers owned slaves. When the Declaration of Independence was written a passage speaking against slavery was stricken from it in order for it to pass. There was obviously heated debate on the subject but it was still "normal" at the time, and we know that most of the Declaration signers were not bad people.
Fast forward 90 years to the American Civil War. In the South, slavery as an institution was much more in the position that it is in the Amarr empire in EVE: deeply polarizing, with its practitioners clinging to things like religious arguements to justify it and a large, vocal opposition to it. There may have been "nicer" slave-owners but you rarely hear about them, you hear mostly about the curelety of the institution. If you were to actauly meet an Ammarian (or 1800s Southerner) on the street you might have a different story to tell, but most people are going to be on the outside looking in.
I've read some things suggesting that American slavery, while generally not very nice, wasn't quite as bad as it is popularly portraied as -- and certainly not uniformly so, since most people just think of the big plantations with slaves being whipped in the fields, when that is far from being the total sum of slavery in the south.
Of course, there have been many other instances of slavery in the world, some of which were not particularly bad at all -- in Rome, I believe, slaves had more protection under the law than non-citizens (of course, the protection was because they were property of citizens, but the point stands. And in later years, there were laws against cruelty, and slaves could sue their owners. Similar laws have been enacted in the Empire in recent years, I believe).
So there is plenty of room for them to be fairly good people and still have widespread slavery . . . though characters raised with other cultural viewpoints -- especially viewpoints similar to modern Western culture -- might think differently. But when CCP seems to say 'oh, Amarrians are just like that because they're evil and enjoy killing slaves and kicking small dogs,' then one gets annoyed.
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Seth Tanis
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.08.01 16:38:00 -
[33]
This seems like as good a time as any to get this off my chest...
Seems to me the chronicles are going down in quality, with the deterioration accelerating recently. The early ones do a wonderful job of evoking an alien, but plausible, and darkly exciting time and place. They make me want to jump in my pod and go explore it for myself. The newer ones seem to go for the lowest common denominator, with 2-D characters going through the motions all narrated in an over-the-top voice. To try and make it clearer: the early ones are like "Alien". The newer ones are more "Alien vs Predator" . (I haven't read the novels - I have to admit, I gave up on "Theodicy" - so I can't comment on those.)
I am not trying to flame anyone here, certainly not the writers involved, as I don't know what briefs they were working to. It is all a matter of taste, and everyone's a critic, right? But seems consistent with what the OP was saying about the 2D characterisation of the races in recent PF.
At the back of my mind, I can't shake the suspicion CCP have decided their core demographic prefers ebil Amarrians to flawed human beings coping in different ways with their fascinating if in many ways horrible culture. Given we are talking about an internet spaceship game, they're probably right. |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.01 21:12:00 -
[34]
I am happy that we have at least chonicles. For nearly two years there was nearly no RP information.
When the third Bloodline for each of the empires was introduced, their was no RP background for them and in some cases there is still no background, aside from what can be read during character creation.
Only the Khanid where ever mentioned before the Bloodlines Patch and had therefore a backstory. Jin-Mei, Achura and Vherokior appeared out the thin air.
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