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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2004.05.26 13:31:00 -
[31]
Hmm not acheiving a lot apart from a few uclers and high blood pressure here are we.
Lets see if the anti chage people are able to move on a little. Given that IMHO BIG are not going to make another change to the rules here.
If there isnt going to be a 4 billion Isk pot next time (however you divide it up ) then what do the people who have a gripe with the way BIG have handled this think is the way forward?
I really am interested in how you think this can be resolved.
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Hmmm I need a Sig |
Dubi
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Posted - 2004.05.26 13:35:00 -
[32]
The easy solution to this is simple thoose that don't wana participate shouldn't hafe to I guess big would still have a big pot to play with since many would be to lazy or don't care about claiming a refund.
But it's quite obvious we are a few that care and don't wana participate in this new system and since big changed the system they should also be ready to compensate thoose that wants no part of this new system.
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Shinca
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Posted - 2004.05.26 15:02:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Dubi *snip* claiming a refund.
A little to late for that since they already participated in Imperial Apoc lotto, right...
shinca
----------------------------- (\_/) (X.x) (> <) WTB cookbook with bunny recipes |
Detaitiv
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Posted - 2004.05.26 15:21:00 -
[34]
Quote: and the value of the apoc would be crazy
Gold Magnate market value: 1 billion Current Bid on Imperial Armageddon: 2.2 billion
You're right. That value on the Imperial Apoc is crazy. You just mistake in which way the value would be in error.
You are all complaining that you did not have odds representative of your purchase. The total value of prize payoouts will in fact far exceed purchases thanks to the gift of the Imperial Apoc that CCP had decided to bestow upon the community. The idea that you are not getting your money's worth is silly.
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Tenzo
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Posted - 2004.05.26 16:56:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Tenzo on 26/05/2004 16:59:47
Originally by: Detaitiv
Quote: and the value of the apoc would be crazy
Gold Magnate market value: 1 billion Current Bid on Imperial Armageddon: 2.2 billion
You're right. That value on the Imperial Apoc is crazy. You just mistake in which way the value would be in error.
You are all complaining that you did not have odds representative of your purchase. The total value of prize payoouts will in fact far exceed purchases thanks to the gift of the Imperial Apoc that CCP had decided to bestow upon the community. The idea that you are not getting your money's worth is silly.
I forgot we had Imperial Arma hehehe - Aaaah didnt we do well in that Det. We ruled. ( well nearly ruled... came close to ruling )
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.05.26 17:21:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Shevar on 26/05/2004 17:22:02
Originally by: Shinca
Originally by: Dubi *snip* claiming a refund.
A little to late for that since they already participated in Imperial Apoc lotto, right...
shinca
But then again because of that they shouldnt be allowed to change any rules at all I participated in the lottery for the apoc and the full isk gotten through ticket sales in the next lottery, not the imperial apoc and not even half the isk that was gained through ticket sales. (no im not going into details here about how the whole isk pot should be devided, yes they should hand out more smaller prizes instead of 1 4 billion isk prizepot). -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Dubi
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Posted - 2004.05.26 21:23:00 -
[37]
Quote: Gold Magnate market value: 1 billion Current Bid on Imperial Armageddon: 2.2 billion
You're right. That value on the Imperial Apoc is crazy. You just mistake in which way the value would be in error.
Who would pay 2.2billion for a ship that will be the prime target in any engagement and a ship that every pirat in the game wana destroy. if someone do and the apoc from the lottery got sold for that price surely I will admite my misstake. but the point is I didn't not enter the lottery for a ship that I don't want. When I entered BIGs site the first thing I saw was a 1billion+ pot and I was thinging hell yeah. It was easy to just throw in 2mil to BIG games because under that big pot it sad that if you did you would have 1 chance at the apoc and 1 chance at the pot. Now big changed the pot and the deal is not at all as good as before.
And the fact that one the first drawing has allready been held is even worse because now they wana force us to stay in with the words you allready started can't get refund now. If they had stated this before the apoc drawing I would had demanded a refund right then now they didn't for some reson don't know why since the pot was that high even before the the drawing of the apoc so why didn't TornSoul come out with the statement before that so we could avoid this discussion about allready being in one of the 2 promised drawing.
And for thoose few comming here stating BIG is doing the right thing. We have allready told you good for you if you wana support them it's up too you but they should not be able to force thoose that don't wana participate to do so.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2004.05.27 19:05:00 -
[38]
I typed this up several hours ago and was waiting for another EG writer to append a counter argument. However I see that people are beginning to see what I saw so I decided to release sooner than anticipated.
And I know EG gets read more then the forums so I don't think that the numbers of people jilted will stay small, restricted to just the forums.
However since CCP decided to make the Apoc lottery "News", for everyone to see, I am disappointed that the "revisions" haven't made the news either.
Or is it safe to assume there is disappointment there too?
To say that BIG is not profiting from this? Bah! Humbug! And Balderdash! In this one little motion they not only fund the next few lotteries but I've not heard of what will be done with the ticket sales from those lotteries.
Also realize that at any time BIG could potentially shutdown the lottery. Who gets the last pot? Why BIG does since the lottery is no longer a "deficit" spending proposition. It is fully funded by the money taken from those who choose to be in this latest round.
I'm truly saddened by this though. I don't think BIG meant any harm, or will mean any harm. However it's the height of arrogance, or foolishness, to think that our community (a justifiably suspicious one) would not react to this. And react strongly.
As dangerous as people's secrets and plans are they trust me with them. They don't however trust me with their cash. You were above me in that regard, BIG, but alas you made a "marketing" decision and their is a price.
I am glad to have your example though. It reinforces my belief that you never ever change your given word.
When you do, you are done.
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2004.05.27 23:16:00 -
[39]
First prize 1 Bill ISK 2nd prize 500 mill ISK 3rd prize 250 mill ISK 4th prize: 20 * 100 mill ISK
This I would have less of a problem with because you would actually give the players better odds which is what you claim you want to do. Or do you really just want to hold over the billions of isk for the next few lotteries? I suppose we shall see.
Changing the rules after they have been established is still Very shady of you BIG, I hope you dont expect to be trusted ever again.
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stalefish
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Posted - 2004.05.28 00:39:00 -
[40]
yea.. my opinions are split. I have to give it up to tornsoul for putting this gigantic event together...
but yea, if people paid for this drawing, the people should have a chance to win all the isk put in the pot. If BIG is going to save some of the isk for future lotteries, the people that paid should still have a chance to win the isk in those lotteries as well. So if it's going to take 10 more lotteries to deliver the isk from this drawing, everyone that paid should be included in those drawings as well.
I personally really like the idea of have 23 winners though.
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McFly
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Posted - 2004.05.28 05:49:00 -
[41]
Edited by: McFly on 28/05/2004 05:51:51
Quote: Ok I have re-evaluated my post still think the odds is not in my favour with the new system. I wish you good luck with your new system but it's not for me and can I now have my money back. Since when I invested it you told me something diffrent. you have the right to change your mind but so have I.
FFS man!?! Is it that hard for you to make 1mil ISk in the world of Eve? Imo, Tornsoul does a great job!, and afaik no BIG members can even take part in the lottery. So that make it very fair. On top of that she dosent even take the 10% she reserves the right to.
Quote: the odds is not in my favour
Also, why would you think the odds are ever in your favor? Do you play the lotto in RL? Do you lose every time and ask for your money back then too?
I have played the lottery many times but have yet to win... I even played the max amount of tickets in the last round.. and will for the next. If I win Great!, if not Big ******* deal. I can say you wont see me whine and grovel, and ask for my money back.
I think that Torn does a great and honest job on the lotto
nuff said.
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.28 07:32:00 -
[42]
Originally by: McFly
Originally by: NoNamium
For the first and the last time... this is not as much about the money as it is about that BIG cheated the players. The broke an agreement and kept 2B isk to do with as they wish. It just so happens that they want to use the money for promotion of their lottery and as a safety buffer for the prizes on the lottery. I couldn't care less about what they use the 2B for... they scammed about 4000 players out of 2B isk. The short and the long of it.
Go fly a kite and while your at it get a clue
What a well formulated, well argumented and informative statement.
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McFly
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Posted - 2004.05.28 07:54:00 -
[43]
It was in responce to you comment of 'they scammed 4000 people out of 2bil isk'... thats why I said get a clue.. so they changed up how the pot gets divided up and won.. still shows its going back out and not in their wallets
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.28 08:11:00 -
[44]
Originally by: McFly It was in responce to you comment of 'they scammed 4000 people out of 2bil isk'... thats why I said get a clue.. so they changed up how the pot gets divided up and won.. still shows its going back out and not in their wallets
Well, this is more like it.
I just so happen to believe that taking money for a purchase and only giving less than half of what was agreed upon is a scam.
If this had been just one person buying a 2 run Scorpion BPC and only got a 1 run for his money everybody would agree this was a scam. Even if the person selling the BPC said that the money he kept would be used for buying more Scorpion BPCs for the next players and that this player could be one of the next.
If BIG keeps 2B isk for further lotteries without giving full value of the tickets bought by the players, then that is the situation.
Changing the rules of agreement after the agreement has been upheld by one party is breach of contract and I don't like it.
There are several solutions to this, many of which will still keep the lottery alive and well. Many of them have been mentioned already, and I look forward to TornSouls reaction if any reaction will be made.
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McFly
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Posted - 2004.05.28 08:20:00 -
[45]
Edited by: McFly on 28/05/2004 08:22:49 Did you not read that the other 1.75bil will go to the next round So you still havent shown me where they're keeping the isk.
*edit* btw I don't here you complaining about the Eula that changes from Eve.. and you have never seen rules change befor? Thats life man, deal with it.
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.28 08:29:00 -
[46]
Originally by: McFly Edited by: McFly on 28/05/2004 08:22:49 Did you not read that the other 1.75bil will go to the next round So you still havent shown me where they're keeping the isk.
*edit* btw I don't here you complaining about the Eula that changes from Eve.. and you have never seen rules change befor? Thats life man, deal with it.
I will gladly discuss the Eula changes in another thread if that is what you wish. However, that is not the topic of discussion here.
If the 1.75B is going for the next round then why do my tickets not count for that event as well. I'm paying for it and so are a lot of other people.
The total is appr. 3.8B isk 3.8 - 1.75B isk = 2.05B isk. Not 1.75B. and even if the remainder goes to a third round then I'm still not taking part of that lottery unless I pay for additional tickets.
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McFly
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Posted - 2004.05.28 08:56:00 -
[47]
Time to get you a whaaburger and some frechcries
Who cares if the pot gets split in 2 other pots, the lottery you bought tickets for was for the Imperal Apoc was it not?
either way, I'm over this subject... to many people need to stop *****in
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.28 09:04:00 -
[48]
Originally by: McFly Time to get you a whaaburger and some frechcries
Who cares if the pot gets split in 2 other pots, the lottery you bought tickets for was for the Imperal Apoc was it not?
either way, I'm over this subject... to many people need to stop *****in
Nice to see you actually figured out what I meant. Don't assume on my behalf what I payed for or did not pay for. And I'll "***** and moan" about this as much as I want, and it sure doesn't sound to me as if you're "over this subject".
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McFly
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Posted - 2004.05.28 09:10:00 -
[49]
Edited by: McFly on 28/05/2004 09:13:06
Originally by: NoNamium
Originally by: McFly Time to get you a whaaburger and some frechcries
Who cares if the pot gets split in 2 other pots, the lottery you bought tickets for was for the Imperal Apoc was it not?
either way, I'm over this subject... to many people need to stop *****in
Nice to see you actually figured out what I meant. Don't assume on my behalf what I payed for or did not pay for. And I'll "***** and moan" about this as much as I want, and it sure doesn't sound to me as if you're "over this subject".
I am over the subject, I'm really just sick of seeing lamers like yourself and others bash BIG for something they have been doing for a long time (and imo a good job at that). Only now people start b!tchin about it cause the rules changed.
If people don't like the rules, or if they don't like how the rules change, don't fekkin play! period.
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.28 09:20:00 -
[50]
Originally by: McFly Edited by: McFly on 28/05/2004 09:13:06
Originally by: NoNamium
Originally by: McFly Time to get you a whaaburger and some frechcries
Who cares if the pot gets split in 2 other pots, the lottery you bought tickets for was for the Imperal Apoc was it not?
either way, I'm over this subject... to many people need to stop *****in
Nice to see you actually figured out what I meant. Don't assume on my behalf what I payed for or did not pay for. And I'll "***** and moan" about this as much as I want, and it sure doesn't sound to me as if you're "over this subject".
I am over the subject, I'm really just sick of seeing lamers like yourself and others bash BIG for something they have been doing for a long time (and imo a good job at that). Only now people start b!tchin about it cause the rules changed.
If people don't like the rules, or if they don't like how the rules change, don't fekkin play! period.
And I wont play in the lottery anymore. But you apparently just forgot all the previous post I sent to you, because you should know by now why it is that I'm protesting the changes. Because they are cheating me and many others like me out of something we already payed for. The agreement was broken. I feel that this more more than enough to be writing all this, if you don't then I'd gladly sell you 2 Thoraxs for lets say 13M isk, under the same terms as BIG would sell lottery tickets.
Just a hint: please refrain from using foul language as it may make you appear younger than you actually are.
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McFly
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Posted - 2004.05.28 09:36:00 -
[51]
Edited by: McFly on 28/05/2004 09:37:54
Originally by: NoNamium Because they are cheating me and many others like me out of something we already payed for.
Well sorry you fell cheated, I sure don't... I played just for the fun of it like most others do. All the people complaining about how the Isk gets split up and how they were cheated etc, etc, etc... just makes you all sound really greedy. Should be glad someone takes all their time and effort to even offer such a thing.
Originally by: NoNamium
Just a hint: please refrain from using foul language as it may make you appear younger than you actually are.
*Just a hint* I don't really care how I appear. Imo I don't think foul language makes you appear younger, but complaining and *****ing does
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.28 09:50:00 -
[52]
Originally by: McFly Edited by: McFly on 28/05/2004 09:37:54
Originally by: NoNamium Because they are cheating me and many others like me out of something we already payed for.
Well sorry you fell cheated, I sure don't...
Good for you. But many others, like me have voiced their opinion and DO feel cheated.
Originally by: McFly
I played just for the fun of it like most others do. All the people complaining about how the Isk gets split up and how they were cheated etc, etc, etc... just makes you all sound really greedy. Should be glad someone takes all their time and effort to even offer such a thing.
Well, if its greedy to want to get what you payed for, then yes I'm greedy. And yes, it's nice that people take their time to do events, but not if those events are used to cheat you.
Originally by: McFly
Originally by: NoNamium
Just a hint: please refrain from using foul language as it may make you appear younger than you actually are.
*Just a hint* I don't really care how I appear.
ok, fine.
Originally by: McFly
Imo I don't think foul language makes you appear younger, but complaining and *****ing does
I'll let this remark stand by itself.
PS: funny you didn't quote me on the Thorax offer though.
PPS: I'll respond to posts that do not complain about people complaining and actually has more arguments of interests. Otherwise don't expect me to comment on your (unavoidably I'm afraid) next post.
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Ivresse
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Posted - 2004.05.28 10:06:00 -
[53]
Originally by: NoNamium
PPS: I'll respond to posts that do not complain about people complaining and actually has more arguments of interests. Otherwise don't expect me to comment on your (unavoidably I'm afraid) next post.
Guess we won't be hearing from you again, then, everyone else left this topic yesterday...*cheers can be heard outside...* ---------------------
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Dubi
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Posted - 2004.05.28 10:48:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Dubi on 28/05/2004 11:22:33
Quote: FFS man!?! Is it that hard for you to make 1mil ISk in the world of Eve?
No it's very easy to make 1mil in the world of eve and the money is not the issue.
Quote:
Also, why would you think the odds are ever in your favor? Do you play the lotto in RL? Do you lose every time and ask for your money back then too?
I have played the lottery many times but have yet to win... I even played the max amount of tickets in the last round.. and will for the next. If I win Great!, if not Big ******* deal. I can say you wont see me whine and grovel, and ask for my money back.
I think that Torn does a great and honest job on the lotto
Do we hafe to go over this again if this happend in rl BIG big would be facing the people that feel cheated in court. and would be guilty of breaking a written agreement. And I have also played with BIG before and I was going to continue doing so. I have never won and it's not a big deal. the big deal is that they take money from our lottery to sponsor the ones that wana be in the next lottery.
Quote: Did you not read that the other 1.75bil will go to the next round So you still havent shown me where they're keeping the isk.
Did you also read the part where it says that you hafe to buy new tickets for that round. BIG was given a Apoc by CCP and they made a lottery for the Apoc and stated that all the money from that lottery would be in the next lottery so pay 2mil and you can be in both lotteries. Now BIG sees the opurtunity to take over the lottery market by ensuring that they have the biggest prices by taking money from a CCP event to have as a carrot so that more people in the future will continue playing with them.
And I didn't agree on being apart of paying for a carrot that I'm not interested in.
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Matt Ivresse
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Posted - 2004.05.28 11:12:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Dubi
And I didn't not agree on being apart of paying for a carrot that I'm not interested in.
So you do agree with it then...? ---------------------------
DUI Racing - The PREMIER Racing corporation for Racing fans out there in the world of |
Dubi
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Posted - 2004.05.28 11:22:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Dubi on 28/05/2004 11:24:45 Edited by: Dubi on 28/05/2004 11:24:04
Quote:
Quote: Originally by: Dubi And I didn't not agree on being apart of paying for a carrot that I'm not interested in.
So you do agree with it then...?
Typo Changed.
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Angeles Solaris
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Posted - 2004.05.29 01:57:00 -
[57]
All I can say is that I will not be participating in BIG's next lottery.
I don't know if anyone at BIG realizes this, but lotteries are not about sharing. If I wanted to share I'd just send my money to other people myself. Life is a joke; If you're too serious you won't get it :P |
NAFnist
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Posted - 2004.05.29 02:38:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kapacs
Now the hilarious part which Tenzo is trying to show here is that this is done "for the love of the game". Let me tell you something, give me a person in the world, anyone you consider an idol or perhaps someone that impressed you in some way, not looking at his social status that he/she has done something for the community out of pure pleasure and meant to satisfy the god loving society.
OMG!! Worst post I've ever seen on these boards _____________
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.05.29 02:42:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Darkwolf on 29/05/2004 02:47:45 Well, I have to say I'm not particularly amused.
When I bought my tickets for the lottery, it was made clear that the first prize would be the Apoc, and the second prize would be the cash pool.
This got changed on me. Now, to be frank, I could care less about the Apoc, I wanted the chance at the cash. This obviously could not happen because of the changes that happened.
And now I find out that in order to have a shot at the cash I have to invest MORE money?
No thanks.
Edit: Subdivision of the large cash pool into many smaller prizes would have been acceptable, but jackpotting the cash pool into another lottery that players in the FIRST lottery have to buy tickets for AGAIN just isn't kosher, sorry. Buyers in the first lottery should have been offered refunds at the time of the change if they no longer wished to participate.
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Gavin Kineli
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Posted - 2004.05.29 03:45:00 -
[60]
To clear this up. Nonamium understands, but apparently some other don't.
The issue is not that BIG will use this round's ticket sales for future lotteries, all lotteries do that, that's how they keep going. The issue is that BIG initially said they wouldn't, then changed their minds.
Many people don't have problems with this, since technically your odds of winning are the same, you just get less if you win. Many people don't care, and that's cool.
But then again, there are plenty who do care. It's their deal, and they have a perfectly valid point. Unfortunately, there's nothing they can do. I feel bad for those people, but I am powerless to change things. You'll just have to not do the lottery from now on. I wish you would, but if you're angry, you probably wont enter the lottery
Play The BIG Lottery! |
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