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Bytaless
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Posted - 2008.07.22 15:46:00 -
[1]
It's a setup for doing lvl 4 missions. And i can't decide between the 2: 1)Torpedoes, optimal range 38km, 926 dps + target painter 2)Cruise, optimal range 220km, 506dps, no target painter
Cruise has the 506 dps at 220km, but doesn't make use of the target painter bonus of the golem. Torpedo setup has the 926 dps at only 38km, and makes use of the target painter bonus, as it has a target painter fitted.
Now i know from my own experience the bigger the optimal, the better for doing missions. And i would go for the cruise setup, but since the golem is a terpedo platform, i really don't know what to choose.
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Wil Smithx
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Posted - 2008.07.22 16:16:00 -
[2]
I use a torp golem since most missions are within 36km (based on eft range of 41km)for missions outside that I have javelin torps which take my range up to around 54km (from eft 62km).
I use 3 bcu and 1 flux coil, giving me a tank of like 500 dps, or unsustainable of just over 800, I get a little hairy against amarr sicne I omni tank (2 invuls only) but I slay fast enough to survive...
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Bytaless
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Posted - 2008.07.22 16:56:00 -
[3]
My setup uses quad hardeners setup, so tanking is no problem ! And it's cap stable without cap booster !
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.07.22 16:58:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Boz Well on 22/07/2008 16:57:48 Use range rigs and javelins. Golem can lob torps well beyond 38 km, and torp golem owns cruise anything imo.
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Bytaless
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Posted - 2008.07.22 17:05:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Boz Well Edited by: Boz Well on 22/07/2008 16:57:48 Use range rigs and javelins. Golem can lob torps well beyond 38 km, and torp golem owns cruise anything imo.
How much is well beyond 38km ? I need one capacitor control circuit II so i can only use only one torpedo speed rig ! Lets say well beyond 38km is 50km at best, which i doubt. It doesn;t even compare to 220km the cruise golem can pump the damage ! Plus the fact cruise have smaller signature radius, and are afected by the skill that lowers explosion radius !
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Emperor Ryan
Amarr Imperial Syndicate Forces
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Posted - 2008.07.22 17:33:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Bytaless
Originally by: Boz Well Edited by: Boz Well on 22/07/2008 16:57:48 Use range rigs and javelins. Golem can lob torps well beyond 38 km, and torp golem owns cruise anything imo.
How much is well beyond 38km ? I need one capacitor control circuit II so i can only use only one torpedo speed rig ! Lets say well beyond 38km is 50km at best, which i doubt. It doesn;t even compare to 220km the cruise golem can pump the damage ! Plus the fact cruise have smaller signature radius, and are afected by the skill that lowers explosion radius !
You going to take our advice.. or whine. Golems are made to lob Torps end of story, the boost bounus makes sure you dont need to perma rep. You use cruises on a Golem and you are a Phail. Simple Capeche?
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.22 18:34:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Bytaless
Originally by: Boz Well Edited by: Boz Well on 22/07/2008 16:57:48 Use range rigs and javelins. Golem can lob torps well beyond 38 km, and torp golem owns cruise anything imo.
How much is well beyond 38km ? I need one capacitor control circuit II so i can only use only one torpedo speed rig ! Lets say well beyond 38km is 50km at best, which i doubt. It doesn;t even compare to 220km the cruise golem can pump the damage ! Plus the fact cruise have smaller signature radius, and are afected by the skill that lowers explosion radius !
You don't NEED one CCC2. Most definitely not. At least not to complete any mission in a torp golem in good time. More often than not all NPCs are dead before they are through half your shields. Maybe you need that rig to totally overpermatank your ship but if you go that imho stupid route you don't want torpedos anyway.
A good Golem will lob torps out to 55-60km, which is good enough for most missions I run regularly (Amarr agents here though). And if you actually USE the 220km range of cruise missiles, you epically fail at missioning.
A good cruise Golem will.... Well there is not such thing. If you use cruise, go CNR. Also torps are more or less immune to defenders while up to like 40% of your cruise missiles can die to them. And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.07.22 18:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Bytaless
Originally by: Boz Well Edited by: Boz Well on 22/07/2008 16:57:48 Use range rigs and javelins. Golem can lob torps well beyond 38 km, and torp golem owns cruise anything imo.
How much is well beyond 38km ? I need one capacitor control circuit II so i can only use only one torpedo speed rig ! Lets say well beyond 38km is 50km at best, which i doubt. It doesn;t even compare to 220km the cruise golem can pump the damage ! Plus the fact cruise have smaller signature radius, and are afected by the skill that lowers explosion radius !
You don't NEED one CCC2. Most definitely not. At least not to complete any mission in a torp golem in good time. More often than not all NPCs are dead before they are through half your shields. Maybe you need that rig to totally overpermatank your ship but if you go that imho stupid route you don't want torpedos anyway.
A good Golem will lob torps out to 55-60km, which is good enough for most missions I run regularly (Amarr agents here though). And if you actually USE the 220km range of cruise missiles, you epically fail at missioning.
A good cruise Golem will.... Well there is not such thing. If you use cruise, go CNR. Also torps are more or less immune to defenders while up to like 40% of your cruise missiles can die to them.
I don't exactly follow why there is a claim that torps are immune to defenders. Back when I first was running missions in a Torp Raven (before the range/dps changes) my torps seemed to get shot down just as often (more often given they hang around in space longer and give those defenders enough time to figure out which way to go - often with cruises at closer ranges the defenders don't figure out what to do quickly enough to actually hit them.
Still, I would agree that the Golem was designed to use Torps. 4 slots for weapons mean maximization of firepower is key - 100% damage bonus means absurd alpha strikes and a hearty bonus to the use of TP's means you can hit cruiser sized targets for enough damage to instapop them. Yes you'll have trouble with the frigates but you DO have a drone bay which handily carries your solution to those little guys.
One of the trends I find interesting however is the desire to perma run the booster on a Golem/Raven. In virtually any mission I've ever come across a T2 fitting of XL booster, Amp, 4 hardners, 2 PDS has provided MORE than enough tank for me. Why spend the absurd amounts of cash to make it worthwile to perma boost an XL when it's not necissary in the slightest?
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.07.22 18:48:00 -
[9]
It takes 3 or so defender missiles to take out a torp iirc. And aren't defenders proportional to number of launchers fired? So with 4 launchers on golem, you aren't going to see 3 defenders, i.e. your torps won't die. At least I think that's the reasoning.
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.07.22 18:49:00 -
[10]
And btw, if you wanna permarun, get a large Pith booster. I <3 mine.
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Srioghal moDhream
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Posted - 2008.07.22 19:55:00 -
[11]
Told you those larges were great eh Boz.
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.07.22 20:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Srioghal moDhream Told you those larges were great eh Boz.
<3
I love it. I almost trained up for a Nighthawk (Bc5 is halfway done on my Caldari char, I keep changing my mind after training a few days ), but then figured I'd just permatank my CNR, and I'm loving it, haha. Next project is to get my new character up to a Golem (already got t2 torps/both range skills at 5/etc.), haha, but I plan to keep the Pith.
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Taex
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Posted - 2008.07.22 21:07:00 -
[13]
The realities are: You're going to want to wait till things are within 40km anyway to tractor them for optimal ISK per hour. You'll never lose a torpedo to defenders. Defenders do about 80 damage. Cruise missiles have 50 hp. Torpedoes have 240. With a painter, torpedoes do more damage to cruisers than cruise missiles do.
For the odd rat that likes to hang out at like 50km, you can fit an afterburner or javelins. With only 4 launchers with a 100% damage bonus, you won't use that many expensive missiles. Especially since they're never, ever shot down.
In order to counter the drawbacks of torpedo range I, with a little help, came up with this base golem setup:
[Golem, Current] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Reactor Control Unit II Power Diagnostic System II
Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron 100MN Afterburner II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Invulnerability Field II
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Salvager I Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I
Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
With a 3% cpu implant, 3% rof implant, and 3% missile velocity implant and missile bombardment V I hit out to 38km on paper. Like 33-35km realistically.
Obviously this setup is intended for the worse case scenario, taking heavy DPS from outside your missile range, but you can tweak it to suit missions that don't need an afterburner, painter, or injector to complete. But with those rigs and implants, this setup is possible. Deals about 700 dps out to ~55km with javelins & drones. Something like 850 with t1 torps.
Luckily there aren't a lot of rats that like to stay at 50km. And you nearly never need to kill those turrets/launchers out at extreme ranges.
Plus, with that gigantic cargo bay, bringing along a ton of cap booster 800s is no big deal, and with rat specific hardeners, you can easily solo AE bonus room, or the level 3 kidnapper 10/10 with the 10 1.2M battleships.
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Bytaless
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Posted - 2008.07.23 00:19:00 -
[14]
Good Advice
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FlameGlow
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.23 01:41:00 -
[15]
Trying to permarun a XL booster is pure fail and gimps any setup too much. Large T2 booster with boost amp will provide enough tank for lvl 4s and on golem you could permarun it without using rig slots, just with 3 cap mods in total(rechargers/flux coils).
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Mahke
Carrion Crows
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Posted - 2008.07.23 02:21:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Mahke on 23/07/2008 02:21:52 torps.
Use t2 launchers so you can fire javs as well, get up to 60 range using velocity and flight time rigs and max skills before implants. Still can fit a very strong permatank without the CCCs and still using 3x BCS by fitting a pithum c-type medium shield booster. Probably can make a viable 3xBCS/permatank/no CCC/target painter fit setup with a pith-whatever large shield booster as well, although I don't have a fit handy for that.
(my pithum-c eft has 475 dps tanked against rainbow damage when em/therm tanked, which translates to more than good enough for level 4's, 713 dps at 60km with jav torps, 970 dps with faction ammo to 40km, everything t2 except rigs (t1), shield booster, and one of the three BCS (caldari navy))
edit: assumes lvl V skills, reduce for lesser ofc.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.07.23 05:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Boz Well It takes 3 or so defender missiles to take out a torp iirc. And aren't defenders proportional to number of launchers fired? So with 4 launchers on golem, you aren't going to see 3 defenders, i.e. your torps won't die. At least I think that's the reasoning.
Defenders seem to do damage based on the launcher that fires them (I.E. a drake with a crap load of rocket launchers and BCU's wont' be able to put up an impenetrable missile shield for 10 km)
NPC defenders have always taken out a missile with one defender.
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JenDen
Caldari The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.07.23 06:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Derek Sigres NPC defenders have always taken out a missile with one defender.
Except for the torps - Sig: StackNerfing * GangLinks |
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