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Prioritize power needs

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Author	Topic
FarosWarrior Amarr Sonnema	Posted - 2008.07.23 10:51:00 - [1] in a lot of sci-fi series you sometimes hear things like 'transfer power from guns to shield' thus they then must be increasing their shield. I was thinking of something similar in even, you will require a skill (example: power diagnostic control, reqs energy management/grid upgrades @5) example: as amarr/gallente you need quite some power for guns but do not really need shield recharge, so you take a ship that has a 500sec shield recharge (dont know if its there, just example) and you let loose the power diagnostic management skill, it has 5k cap and a 500sec recharge, you totally disband shield recharge (going to stand XXX/something/???) so your shield are like hull, they only go down, but your cap recharge is then determined (cap recharge+shield recharge:2) so in this case it isnt really usefull but this is just an idea, might be better things to do with it. any ideas or something please here, its not for me (active shieldtanker) but maybe something for all those armortankers out there Fly safe, FarosWarrior
Nikita Alterana Gallente Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.07.23 10:53:00 - [2] this would be a good idea. so If I'm getting ganked by stupid pirates who RP or some crap and thus won't ransom my pod and just kill me because their ******ed...sorry I lost my train of thought. yeah its a good idea. __________________________________________________
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.07.23 11:39:00 - [3] Well, that sounds like overloading modules, but you want other modules to become less efficient as you do so... -- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work.
Sir Substance Minmatar Sunspot Requisitions Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2008.07.23 11:40:00 - [4] id approve. kinda like overloads, but not. ill bite. Originally by: Ekrid because trying to fit medium beam lasers is like trying to shove a cow in your mailbox. doable, but it gets messy.
Kitoba Minmatar Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.07.23 12:07:00 - [5] There's a thing like that. Shield flux coils or relays or whatever they're called. They do exist.
Sir Substance Minmatar Sunspot Requisitions Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2008.07.23 12:19:00 - [6] Originally by: Kitoba There's a thing like that. Shield flux coils or relays or whatever they're called. They do exist. not quite the same thing. what OP means is (for example) if im under serious fire from some gang that out nubmers me 2:1, im not gonna be able to defeat them. so why cant i offline my guns, and shunt all that power into making my shield booster give me more HP per cycle? Originally by: Ekrid because trying to fit medium beam lasers is like trying to shove a cow in your mailbox. doable, but it gets messy.
FarosWarrior Amarr Sonnema	Posted - 2008.07.23 12:49:00 - [7] Originally by: Sir Substance Originally by: Kitoba There's a thing like that. Shield flux coils or relays or whatever they're called. They do exist. not quite the same thing. what OP means is (for example) if im under serious fire from some gang that out nubmers me 2:1, im not gonna be able to defeat them. so why cant i offline my guns, and shunt all that power into making my shield booster give me more HP per cycle? I meant what Sir Substance means, shield/cap fluxes do indeed lower shield or cap and make the recharge faster but at the expense if what its boosting Fly safe, FarosWarrior
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Imperial Servants	Posted - 2008.07.23 13:36:00 - [8] You chose your setup and attributes in the station when fitting the ship. Want insane shield regen, fit a lot of shield regenerating module. Want a lot of damage, fit lots of guns and damage mods. Want speed, fit nano's and MWD. I can probably get an insane shield regeneration in an Apocalypse by just sacrificing my lows for that and change guns for projectiles. I'm not against the idea entirely, just a bit reserved as I see it already in game.
FarosWarrior Amarr Sonnema	Posted - 2008.07.23 13:54:00 - [9] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes You chose your setup and attributes in the station when fitting the ship. Want insane shield regen, fit a lot of shield regenerating module. Want a lot of damage, fit lots of guns and damage mods. Want speed, fit nano's and MWD. I can probably get an insane shield regeneration in an Apocalypse by just sacrificing my lows for that and change guns for projectiles. I'm not against the idea entirely, just a bit reserved as I see it already in game. im not against overloading, but if i want more tanking i can just fit an extra invul and if i want a higher rof i just fit damage mods, same thing Fly safe, FarosWarrior
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.07.23 15:36:00 - [10] You can get the same effect by mounting oversized modules (try putting a large shield booster on a cruiser or a battleship sized AB/MWD, for instance) or fitting more equipment then you have grid/cpu for. In either example you have the manual option of sacrificing other things to make the 'extra spiffy' things work.

FarosWarrior Amarr Sonnema	Posted - 2008.07.23 16:07:00 - [11] yes Neko, but then we dont need overloading as well Fly safe, FarosWarrior
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.07.23 16:18:00 - [12] Originally by: FarosWarrior yes Neko, but then we dont need overloading as well I will have to take your word on that. overloading was implemented while I was away so it isn't a game feature I've ever actually looked at much or been interested in.
FarosWarrior Amarr Sonnema	Posted - 2008.07.23 17:01:00 - [13] Originally by: Nekopyat Originally by: FarosWarrior yes Neko, but then we dont need overloading as well I will have to take your word on that. overloading was implemented while I was away so it isn't a game feature I've ever actually looked at much or been interested in. i havent been away then but it doesnt interest me as well, i do know for a fact though that a nighthawk with gist tanking and overload and gang bonus can get 9800 dps tanking Fly safe, FarosWarrior
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.07.23 18:38:00 - [14] Part of a flaw with this is... Bringing a module online in space requires 95% Cap, and usually dips you down to about 20% or so once it's online. So saying "just mount something else, and switch them out" doesn't work when you're in the middle of a firefight. I think the idea is... being able to disable a module, and shunt the power into another module that was already operating. The net effect would probably resemble Overload in many respects, since the module was already operating at peak efficiency and you've ramped up the power to get more "oomph". I suppose the mechanic of Overload already fills this idea... basically. It's not as pretty, not quite as cinematic, and it takes a ton of training to pull off. Where this "rerouting power" idea plays less on Science and more on Engineering skills. I suppose with the proper balance, I could see this being doable. Maybe make the extra effort a teeny bit stronger, but not as much as an Overload would accomplish. Then you could either shut down modules for extra "oomph", or you could just work it til it melts. --- Don't take my rantings personally. I may just be arguing the topic... unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
Hitachi Morimoto Gallente Synthetic Light Mining Corps.	Posted - 2008.07.23 20:02:00 - [15] Why not do a combination of both? (It kinda makes sense actually.) When you shunt extra power to a module, it should (Theoretically unless it was built for that kind of punishment) work over 100% efficiency. This puts stress on the module and damages it over time. That's how overheating works. Create a named module where the designers can put in a threshold usable by shunting extra power (Such as offlining modules and transferring power) but it's threshold for heat exchange and damage is higher. as if the designers predicted that the user would be harsh on it. :):):):):):):):):):):) Newsflash! The eve gate is made of delicious cheese!
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.07.23 20:35:00 - [16] Actually... the more I think on this. Overloading a module means rerouting power already. Obviously there isn't a lack of resources to dedicate towards the task, or Overload would already require another module be offlined beforehand. On most shows, they have to turn something down or off, because their power supply is limited. They can't operate any more than what they have currently, so they have to find the extra power somewhere. Most ships in Eve don't suffer a lack of power supply. Either you have extra PG left over after fittings, or you have balanced the Cap regen to accomidate your usage. Either way, there isn't much of a necessity for "rerouting" other than to justify the boost. So I think an easier solution would be to rework Overload, so it requires Engineering training, rather than the heavy Science training necessary for Thermodynamics. Then it would reflect the idea better, as well as become easier for people to do. The mechanics could remain the same, in that a module works harder until it's reduced to slag... that way it doesn't change the gameplay. I don't want to see 120% become the new standard, but it would be nice if someone younger than a 5 year Veteran could get some extra horsepower out of their stuff too. --- Don't take my rantings personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "People don't want Variety. They want THE BEST"
Sir Substance Minmatar Sunspot Requisitions Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2008.07.24 03:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Overloading a module means rerouting power already. Obviously there isn't a lack of resources to dedicate towards the task, or Overload would already require another module be offlined beforehand. this is not what overloading means. lets take a laser for example. this laser flourishes laser was designed to fire not more then once every 5 seconds, with a maximum of 500MW going through it. not, its fed from the capacitors. if i want to, i can fire it once every three seconds, using 700MW. this will draw more cap, not more PG. it will also damage the module, because you are putting too much power through it, and firing it before the heat from the last shot can dissipate. what OP is proposing is different. instead, we have a armwave shield extender. this takes powergrid and uses it to make a shield stronger. now, we know this effect is scalable, we have everything from micro extenders to t2 large ones. so presumably, the small t1 extender is scaled back to its minimum threshold PG usage, in order to make it mroe easily ***ble. but we know it is capable of more, from the existence of named (tweaked) variants. so, why cant we shut down the guns, and feed that excess into the shield extender. the shield extender now uses its normal PG&CPU + the PG&CPU of the guns, and is proportionally more powerful. but it doesn't overheat. we know it can scale without overheating. like overloading, there would be some modules to which this rationale doesn't apply. cargo expanders would be one. thus, there will be many modules that neither overloading nor power redistribution would affect. now, if we make the affect of the redistribution permanent until you redock and reset it, it will make it a niche thing, like overloading. something one does when one really needs that extra bit of oompfh. Originally by:** Ekrid because trying to fit medium beam lasers is like trying to shove a cow in your mailbox. doable, but it gets messy.
Gabbot	Posted - 2008.07.24 03:30:00 - [18] Captain: "divert all power to shields" Crew: "shield booster activated" Shield booster eating cap (power) therefore diverting power to the shields. Eve wouldnt be as interesting if it followed the sci-fi Tv genre, for a start, half the modules would be missing, everything would shield tank and it would be alot more confusing.
Sir Substance Minmatar Sunspot Requisitions Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2008.07.24 04:06:00 - [19] Edited by: Sir Substance on 24/07/2008 04:06:14 Originally by: Gabbot Captain: "divert all power to shields" Crew: "shield booster activated" Shield booster eating cap (power) therefore diverting power to the shields. Eve wouldnt be as interesting if it followed the sci-fi Tv genre, for a start, half the modules would be missing, everything would shield tank and it would be alot more confusing. the borg hull tank. Originally by: Ekrid because trying to fit medium beam lasers is like trying to shove a cow in your mailbox. doable, but it gets messy.
FarosWarrior Amarr Sonnema	Posted - 2008.07.24 09:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Sir Substance Originally by: Marcus Gideon Overloading a module means rerouting power already. Obviously there isn't a lack of resources to dedicate towards the task, or Overload would already require another module be offlined beforehand. this is not what overloading means. lets take a laser for example. this laser flourishes laser was designed to fire not more then once every 5 seconds, with a maximum of 500MW going through it. not, its fed from the capacitors. if i want to, i can fire it once every three seconds, using 700MW. this will draw more cap, not more PG. it will also damage the module, because you are putting too much power through it, and firing it before the heat from the last shot can dissipate. what OP is proposing is different. instead, we have a armwave shield extender. this takes powergrid and uses it to make a shield stronger. now, we know this effect is scalable, we have everything from micro extenders to t2 large ones. so presumably, the small t1 extender is scaled back to its minimum threshold PG usage, in order to make it mroe easily *****ble. but we know it is capable of more, from the existence of named (tweaked) variants. so, why cant we shut down the guns, and feed that excess into the shield extender. the shield extender now uses its normal PG&CPU + the PG&CPU of the guns, and is proportionally more powerful. but it doesn't overheat. we know it can scale without overheating. like overloading, there would be some modules to which this rationale doesn't apply. cargo expanders would be one. thus, there will be many modules that neither overloading nor power redistribution would affect. now, if we make the affect of the redistribution permanent until you redock and reset it, it will make it a niche thing, like overloading. something one does when one really needs that extra bit of oompfh. \o/\o/\o/ he understands me Fly safe, FarosWarrior

FarosWarrior Amarr Sonnema	Posted - 2008.07.24 10:21:00 - [21] Originally by: Gabbot Captain: "divert all power to shields" Crew: "shield booster activated" Shield booster eating cap (power) therefore diverting power to the shields. Eve wouldnt be as interesting if it followed the sci-fi Tv genre, for a start, half the modules would be missing, everything would shield tank and it would be alot more confusing. ever heard of permatanking your shield booster? (yes some people like me are crazy enough to do just that) Fly safe, FarosWarrior
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.24 10:26:00 - [22] Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 24/07/2008 10:30:51 Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 24/07/2008 10:27:28 An interesting notion (and I've read Sir Substance's explanation of it and quite like it) - however, it's a tad difficult to resolve because currently we have two notions of power in EVE. The first is powergrid, a phantom resource that restricts what you can put on your ship but confers no direct in-flight benefit. Perhaps every ship only has a certain number of power sockets... The second is capacitor, which actually determines what you can do with your fitted modules and consumes 'power'. Now somewhere there is a reactor plant actually providing power, charging your capacitor, and providing 'maintenance' power to your modules, providing this powergrid limitation. You can look at it two ways. Either boosting your engines or shields and so on is already done via capacitor and modules (MWD, AB, Shield boost), or you can add an additional redirect notion where some modules fail and others are boosted. I don't see a problem with the principle. I do wonder whether it is needed. You'd need ground-rules establishing on what goes on and off when you redirect aspects. Do you limit it to inherent ship effects (shield recharge, cap recharge, base engine speed) or do you include modules (boost guns, boost shields, what then turns off?) and so on. Edit: You could conceivably have a slider system for powergrid, where each module has a minimum in order to be online and fitted, but you can boost one module's powergrid allocation at the expense of another. To make life simple you could save presets of these configurations. A lot is possible, if the gameplay can justify it. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Sir Substance Minmatar Sunspot Requisitions Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2008.07.24 12:44:00 - [23] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth I don't see a problem with the principle. I do wonder whether it is needed. indeed. that is an important question. however, it also applies to overloading. on the facing side of the coin, no i don't think we need it, or overloading. the capacity to blow your guns up for a few more DPS for a few seconds? hardly useful. but! FULLY AWESOME! and in that respect, it is needed. its not something you would use every day, or even every week, at least where your average eve player is concerned. but its another small thing to add that makes eve just a shade cooler, and we all love cool stuff . i dont think it would be too onerous to implement, and would be a nice little addition to the game. Originally by: Ekrid because trying to fit medium beam lasers is like trying to shove a cow in your mailbox. doable, but it gets messy.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.24 13:25:00 - [24] It's also worth noting that overheating comes with no real drawbacks other than cost, because everyone who does it also carries nanite paste; either you win thanks to overheating or you die anyway. This proposal has guaranteed drawbacks of your choice, which I like a lot more. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
BigWhale Gallente Three WiseMen Association	Posted - 2008.07.24 15:00:00 - [25] I just want to boost power of my primary deflector dish, run its signal thru secondary plasma coils and in effect create a secondary warp field which could be used to transfer excessive magnetic flux from flux capacitor and channel it over plasma manifolds that would transform it to pure hyper ionized dilithium particles which can then be used as a tertiary medium for monolithic chain reaction that could boos the power of my railguns. Simple! I want that! ;) -- R, U & Y are letters, not words...
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.07.24 15:14:00 - [26] Originally by: FarosWarrior ever heard of permatanking your shield booster? (yes some people like me are crazy enough to do just that) Yes, but to do that you have to significantly boost your power (cap). So yes you are diverting all power to the shields, still, there just happens to be enough power to keep doing that.
Sir Substance Minmatar Sunspot Requisitions Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2008.07.24 15:26:00 - [27] Originally by: BigWhale I just want to boost power of my primary deflector dish, run its signal thru secondary plasma coils and in effect create a secondary warp field which could be used to transfer excessive magnetic flux from flux capacitor and channel it over plasma manifolds that would transform it to pure hyper ionized dilithium particles which can then be used as a tertiary medium for monolithic chain reaction that could boos the power of my railguns. Simple! I want that! ;) sorry, my star trek nerdism just kicked in. the deflector dish uses way more power the the plasma coils, and the two are hardly compatible systems (one being engines, the other being in esscence a large forcefield generator). if you try and shove power from the main deflector dish into the plasma coils, the best you can hope for is to bugger up the warp core and have to take the core offline. failing that, you'll send an EPS surge throughout the ship, blowing power relays all over the place and cutting power to most of the ship. inevitably, a console will explode and kill a bridge officer as well.
FarosWarrior Amarr Sonnema	Posted - 2008.07.24 16:02:00 - [28] Originally by: Sir Substance inevitably, a console will explode and kill a bridge officer as well. that always happens :P Fly safe, FarosWarrior
FarosWarrior Amarr Sonnema	Posted - 2008.07.24 16:03:00 - [29] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban Originally by: FarosWarrior ever heard of permatanking your shield booster? (yes some people like me are crazy enough to do just that) Yes, but to do that you have to significantly boost your power (cap). So yes you are diverting all power to the shields, still, there just happens to be enough power to keep doing that. and no, i still got 50% op my cap left so im not diverting all power to shields. but i meant what Substance said, that i can offline say my launchers and put the PG/CPU that goes away in my booster, and then some maths kick in and my booster gets more effective, but i loose alot of firepower Fly safe, FarosWarrior
Danjira Ryuujin Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.24 17:51:00 - [30] Danger to the manifold? Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005

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