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Le Cardinal
ECP Rogues
    |
Posted - 2008.08.20 09:36:00 -
[451]
I cant be arsed to read it all, but i disagree with u on a few points Ms. Constantine.
If your in for more challenging pvp, go to 0.0.
Alot of the player corps in FW are in for the shitz and giggles and they throw everything they got into it. If you as an alliance declare war on a couple of corps within the caldari militia, rest of caldari is free to wardec u back, cept the playerbase in state protectorate. BUT, with the stacking penalties on wardecs (correct me if im wrong) makes this impossible for the majority of the corps in the militia simply because theres lot of new corps that dont have the funds for this.
Alliances and corps within it shouldnt be able to participate in FW. Its 4 empires fighting eachother. If every corp in alliances are able to join FW while still being in alliances u will see alot of elite players with isk up to their neck ruin the fun for those who are new players. And thus ruin a lot of the point with FW. To join FW or fight Faction militias is also a sacrifice.
Personally i think that if u wardec a militia corp the rest of the militia should be able to shoot back. Simply cause the militia is a unity of corps, much like an alliance, that fight an opposing faction. If you look at the RP side this makes sence too. You join an alliance of corps fighting for the same cause and u fight for a state that should protect u back in terms of a certain amount of security.
To the "if your afraid of wardecs join npc corps" ppl, plz stick it. A corp is a unity of friends with the same goals. Leaving a corp to join a npc is unrealistic and not really what ppl want. If you have joined an established alliance or faction for that matter, everybody should be able to fight back to protect eachother. You can in established alliances, so why not in established factions. In an alliance you have many ways to protect yourself from wardecs. You can stay in 0.0 and thus make it hard for wardeccers to reach u. You have the established area to make isk. You have to logistic system to get ur stuff into 0.0. The list goes on.
/wall of text mode off |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.20 10:30:00 -
[452]
I'll ignore the rest of your troll post as it's getting desperate now but I have to take up one point.
 Originally by: Victoria Ehr
We Can't do a thing in militia fleet while jericho kills yet another of our militia in hi-sec, and they then banter on in local about how good they are and how cowardly the rest of us are
I am almost 100% sure this doesn't happen. If it does mail one of our directors and we'll look into it. Star Fraction has a strong policy against OOC smack.
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Hegbork
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Posted - 2008.08.20 11:23:00 -
[453]
Originally by: Heartstone
This is what you can do to fight us. This is what makes it fun for both of us. The Caldari Militia tonight showed Star Fraction that it can stand and fight and for that we tank everyone involved. A fight summary can be found here for those that wish to see statistics and things of said ilk. Star Fraction salutes the Caldari pilots involved in the battle and hopes to see more.
Actually, it wasn't very fun. I took massive sec status hits from killing you and throughout all the fight I had to warp out 4 times when I was primaried by the gate guns. At the end I decided to screw it and not wait for the shield to recharge, went back to the fight, got primaried by the gate guns again had them chew through half my armor and then finally your fleet primaried me. You took no sec hits and didn't have to deal with gate guns. Cowards and carebears all of you.
Oh and our FC disconnected half an hour before the fight so things were a bit chaotic there for a while (although hats off to whoever took over, sorry, don't remember the name, but I'll be honored to join your fleets in the future). |
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente
aurorae pacificas
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 12:26:00 -
[454]
Edited by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik on 20/08/2008 12:26:25
Originally by: Hegbork
Originally by: Heartstone
This is what you can do to fight us. This is what makes it fun for both of us. The Caldari Militia tonight showed Star Fraction that it can stand and fight and for that we tank everyone involved. A fight summary can be found here for those that wish to see statistics and things of said ilk. Star Fraction salutes the Caldari pilots involved in the battle and hopes to see more.
Actually, it wasn't very fun. I took massive sec status hits from killing you and throughout all the fight I had to warp out 4 times when I was primaried by the gate guns. At the end I decided to screw it and not wait for the shield to recharge, went back to the fight, got primaried by the gate guns again had them chew through half my armor and then finally your fleet primaried me. You took no sec hits and didn't have to deal with gate guns. Cowards and carebears all of you.
Oh and our FC disconnected half an hour before the fight so things were a bit chaotic there for a while (although hats off to whoever took over, sorry, don't remember the name, but I'll be honored to join your fleets in the future).
If the CCP powers to be read any posts at all in this thread, I hope it is these two. Surely this portrays better than any other shitpost or epeen posturing the reality for the playerbase. SF are clearly having a great time, the Squidies want to have a great time and GFs too BUT are being hampered by unfair, and unbalanced mechanics
As for the poster thinking this is just the squidies whining about this, think again. Ive seen several prominent FCs and ceo's from the Gal militia weigh into the debate also, all actually in support of their supposed enemies, the State Protectorate.
Simply put, everyone in this thread is pro-pvp. Very few are pushing for "pvp-lite" or "arena style pvp". The problem is that people are reading what they want to see, rather than understanding the situation for what it is.
-Communal wardeccing of npc militia HAS to be out, due to the effect it would have on noobies. An option of consentual wardeccing could be an option.
- Gathering the militia corps together to wardec alliances is simularly unrealistic, due to the insane costs this could amount to
- Communal flagging or flagging of entire wardec fleets (simular to pre lofty nerf conditions) is out, due to ability for greifers to exploit the confused militia ganging system.
- INDIVIDUAL flagging for aggression of fleet members (ie, shoot a fleetmate, you go flashy- if they retaliate only they themselves in turn become flashy back) IS an option, but has problems regarding standard intel gathering proceedures, such as using local to spot hostiles etc
This is my last post on the subject, ive already received a warning for apparently aggressive posting, yet am amazed by the sheer amount of trollposts, flames and epeen that has not been checked by the mods. Keep up the fair and clearly unbiased work there fellas, great job.
If the devs treat the problems raised here in the same light as the mods have, the good intentions of FW will ultimately fail due to inflexibility and blindly ignoring the issue.
 |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.20 12:30:00 -
[455]
Edited by: Heartstone on 20/08/2008 12:35:41
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
If the CCP powers to be read any posts at all in this thread, I hope it is these two. Surely this portrays better than any other shitpost or epeen posturing the reality for the playerbase. SF are clearly having a great time, the Squidies want to have a great time and GFs too BUT are being hampered by unfair, and unbalanced mechanics[/b].
Except the post above was a lie. We took sec hits and took gate gun fire. We just don't whine about it.
Oh and edit: I really can't be bothered with this anymore. I am sure this thread will go on and on with the same comments over and over. in the meantime I will be having fun as will those who actually bother trying to fight in space rather than on the forums. Once I thought you could have a somewhat rational discussion on these forums... Oh well.
Edit2: and why is this bolding ffs. Stop it damn you
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Hegbork
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Posted - 2008.08.20 12:49:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Heartstone
Except the post above was a lie. We took sec hits and took gate gun fire.
Interesting statement. Your killboard must be broken then. Because looking at the kills (from the link you posted) we can see the following:
You lost 7 ships. 0 of them received damage from sentries.
We lost 14 ships. 2 were AMED - war targets, 9 received sentry damage (I didn't bother to count how many were primarily killed by sentries, but it was more than just me), three didn't die from sentries (might have been war targets too, don't know).
Carebears, cowards and liars too. |
Keelan Sage
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 12:58:00 -
[457]
Originally by: Hegbork
Originally by: Heartstone
Except the post above was a lie. We took sec hits and took gate gun fire.
Interesting statement. Your killboard must be broken then. Because looking at the kills (from the link you posted) we can see the following:
You lost 7 ships. 0 of them received damage from sentries.
We lost 14 ships. 2 were AMED - war targets, 9 received sentry damage (I didn't bother to count how many were primarily killed by sentries, but it was more than just me), three didn't die from sentries (might have been war targets too, don't know).
Carebears, cowards and liars too.
Killboards only show involved parties on killmails. If the sentries were shooting someone and that person didn't die then it doesn't show up on the killboard. |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 13:02:00 -
[458]
Edited by: Heartstone on 20/08/2008 13:02:50
I know I shouldn't bite but oh well....
Originally by: Hegbork
Originally by: Heartstone
Except the post above was a lie. We took sec hits and took gate gun fire.
Interesting statement. Your killboard must be broken then. Because looking at the kills (from the link you posted) we can see the following:
You lost 7 ships. 0 of them received damage from sentries.
Correct. And? This doesn't mean we didn't take sentry fire at all. All it means is those ships destroyed didn't. I for one didn't receive any sentry fire despite having a Global Criminal Countdown but also know for a fact that we did have ships that did take some of the fire from the sentries. Did you guys take the most? Well yes of course a) you shot at us first and b) there were far more of you for the sentires ot cycle between.
Quote:
We lost 14 ships. 2 were AMED - war targets,
and 1 Dominion Gaming as well actually. We did wish the 6 Achmed fleet who were there had of stayed around but I guess we were too slow for them.
Quote:
9 received sentry damage (I didn't bother to count how many were primarily killed by sentries, but it was more than just me), three didn't die from sentries (might have been war targets too, don't know).
Well of those 9 5 actually received damage (as four of them received 0 damage) and only 1 of them (a merlin) received more damage from the sentry guns from than from player fire. And I have to say complaining about not tanking Sentry Guns when you didn't fit any tank at all is a bit odd but meh.
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Rutger Centemus
Gallente
Joint Empire Squad
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Posted - 2008.08.20 13:17:00 -
[459]
Originally by: Hegbork
Originally by: Heartstone
Except the post above was a lie. We took sec hits and took gate gun fire.
Interesting statement. Your killboard must be broken then. Because looking at the kills (from the link you posted) we can see the following:
You lost 7 ships. 0 of them received damage from sentries.
We lost 14 ships. 2 were AMED - war targets, 9 received sentry damage (I didn't bother to count how many were primarily killed by sentries, but it was more than just me), three didn't die from sentries (might have been war targets too, don't know).
Carebears, cowards and liars too.
He said they were taking fire from the gateguns. I do hope you realise, that quite a lot of ships (last time I checked: cruisersized and up) can be set up to tank the gatesentries? This would result in damage, but not killmails. Hits to sec status can not be checked that way. But anyway, this has (imho) gone too far already. Please petition CCP to either change the mechanics or start a second server with different rules, as the current set doesn't seem to fit you. In the meantime, please try to find one of the many solutions proposed to dealing with your predicament*.
Some might agree with you, some might not. Changing the way militia's / membership of factions work, might have huge advantages and disadvantages. Changing the way wardecs work would, in my personal opinion, open up another 'Pandora's box' altogether, but hey - it's your call.
It would seem most people agreeing with you are mains or (by their own account) alts of Caldari-FW - participants.
People not agreeing with you seem to be mostly:
a) members of the alliance causing (not only) you problems - not that strange, all things considered (even though they tried and failed to get the FW-mechanics changed towards what you think you would want...);
and
b) players not in FW or, at least, not aligned to Caldari-faction in FW.
As things stand right now these two camps both think themselves to be right and the other to be wrong. The only ones that can truely decide on this are CCP. The lack (?) of a direct answer could be telling, then again maybe not.
* by 'solution' I mean something else than forum-warrioring, which is exactly what I will try to stop doing in this thread unless I see a personal attack. Oh well, time to get back to work . |
Keelan Sage
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 13:31:00 -
[460]
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
If the CCP powers to be read any posts at all in this thread, I hope it is these two. Surely this portrays better than any other shitpost or epeen posturing the reality for the playerbase. SF are clearly having a great time, the Squidies want to have a great time and GFs too BUT are being hampered by unfair, and unbalanced mechanics
So the other Caldari militia pilots who said they had fun shouldn't have their opinion heard?
But I guess you're not going to post again because you're "being hampered by unfair, and unbalanced [forum moderation] mechanics".  |
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Beltantis Torrence
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Posted - 2008.08.20 13:51:00 -
[461]
Bottom line - CCP doesn't want FW to be the stomping ground of alliances. If there's a game mechanic that's allowing alliances to have a tangible impact on FW, I'd bet money you can expect changes to that. No point complaining about it when it happens because if you had any sense you'd anticipate it. FW is, more or less, a newbie PVP feature that CCP has implemented to introduce PVP to people in high sec. It is their pet project at the moment for good reason.
If you're able to turn it into a source of cheap griefer kills I'd suggest you enjoy it while it lasts because its just not going to remain that way for very long. One way or the other it has a limited lifespan (either via CCP blocking it or by players themselves reforming into NPC corps or corp hopping and etc to avoid it).
Don't really think there's much else to say about it really. It doesn't matter whether or not this is valid game mechanics (it is) - it matters whether or not this is how CCP wants FW to play out. It matters if this to be a defining aspect of the FW experience. I'm betting they don't want alliances to have any impact on FW or they'd simply allow alliances to join FW to begin with. |
Kane Kuchera
Amarr
Achmed Fleet
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 14:06:00 -
[462]
Originally by: Hegbork
Actually, it wasn't very fun. I took massive sec status hits from killing you and throughout all the fight I had to warp out 4 times when I was primaried by the gate guns. At the end I decided to screw it and not wait for the shield to recharge, went back to the fight, got primaried by the gate guns again had them chew through half my armor and then finally your fleet primaried me. You took no sec hits and didn't have to deal with gate guns. Cowards and carebears all of you.
Oh and our FC disconnected half an hour before the fight so things were a bit chaotic there for a while (although hats off to whoever took over, sorry, don't remember the name, but I'll be honored to join your fleets in the future).
I am very sorry about dropping offline guys, my ethernet switch decided to stop working, always the perfect time for something to go kaput. Who ever did take over thankyou for doing so and getting the fight.
I have an ethernet cable running down the side of my house directly into the router now. So I won't be disconnecting, although that is of course a tempory solution, I need a new switch.
But my appolagies again.
- Kane (ACHMED!) |
Hegbork
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 14:30:00 -
[463]
The solution will be that people will either leave their corps and join the NPC militia corps or that the best player corps will leave FW altogether and the fun fights we had with competent FCs will be replaced by mindless waiting at beacons and running missions, with occasional ganks. Which will end fast too because of the total lack of any incentives other than fun and epeen. And SF, in a way typical to puritans, are aiming at ruining the fun (a puritan is a person who is deadly afraid that someone, somewhere might be having fun).
I'm moving to 0.0 now. I learned enough from FW and I won't fight broken mechanics exploited by cowards, carebears, liars and puritans (all in the same organization - SF). |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 14:47:00 -
[464]
Originally by: Beltantis Torrence
If there's a game mechanic that's allowing alliances to have a tangible impact on FW, I'd bet money you can expect changes to that. No point complaining about it when it happens because if you had any sense you'd anticipate it.
If and when there is a change to FW mechanics Star Fraction won't be complaining about it. As it is there is plenty for us to do in Eve outside of our interaction with Factional Warfare. Like almost all long term RP goals Star Fraction's roleplay goals are totally unachievable in the framework of the game which is a good thing but FW has finally allowed us some way to attack the main 4 faction in the eve back story in more than just name. This is the main reason why our current campaign is attacking the Caldari State loyalist militia not for some "greifing" or anything else that some may perceive it as. If CCP decide to limit our interaction with it then we will simply change our campaign to something else. We have been activity trying to bring down the Factions now for 5 years and we will continue to do so as it allowed by CCP and our ideology. It's never going to happen but that's what makes it all so much fun.
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Ecky Ptang
Achmed Fleet
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 15:53:00 -
[465]
Edited by: Ecky Ptang on 20/08/2008 15:54:24
Originally by: Rutger Centemus
Originally by: Adaline Gray
I think it is safe to say Jade will not be reelected.
And I think it's safe to say that a lot of people don't seem to want to take the time to learn about the mechanics of the game...
Originally by: Victoria Ehr
No Jade, Jericho Fraction is too gutless and lazy to join faction warfare, bunch forum trolls i say. Yeah
Read up on the info. FYI: Star Fraction is an alliance. Alliances can't sign up for FW, only corporations and individuals (through membership of an NPC - FW - corp) can. So you're suggesting that one of the older RP-alliances should disband?
Originally by: Dex Nederland
Yes, players are whining and they want it to be perfect for them (everyone prefers it to be beneficial for them and not the other guy).
This...
/me remembers people moaning about (a.o.) "Lofty", "suicide ganks whilst AP'ing high value stuff", "nanoez!" and "why are they invading our safe space?! HAXORZ!"
I'm not in FW, and don't intend to align myself. From CCP's info on FW I understood that FW was partly meant as an 'introduction' to pvp. To all complaining I would say: read up on the available info on FW, pvp and wardecs. Tbh, I think a lot of the discussion might have been avoided. But hey, maybe you guys really want to change the game entirely to your liking.
On a personal level, I'm starting to get a bit annoyed with all people crying havoc and exploit over known mechanics in game. But hey, that's life .
so basicly your saying alliances that do not wish to disband should be able to participate in fw? :) even so without any of the fw penalties? :) |
Rutger Centemus
Gallente
Joint Empire Squad
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 16:22:00 -
[466]
Edited by: Rutger Centemus on 20/08/2008 16:24:13
Originally by: Ecky Ptang
Edited by: Ecky Ptang on 20/08/2008 15:54:24
so basicly your saying alliances that do not wish to disband should be able to participate in fw? :) even so without any of the fw penalties? :)
I'm saying that they should have as good a chance as any to participate with the RP-element that FW provides. I'm not saying you should like it, but the simple fact of the matter is that it's allowed under the current 'rules'. Again, I'm not defending either of the 2 positions, I'm merely stating that it's allowed.
You may not like it, it might not be 'fair', etc. It's within the rules. NOWHERE has it EVER been stated, that FW will get you of the hook of wardecs. I can understand that you might not like that the fact that the 'pvp-light' which FW was created to promote, got some of you guys in a wardec. Tbh, some might say it's shitty. Others might say it's ironic.
The problem with this thing is simple: where to stop and where to begin...
Membership of a 'faction' is currently a very grey area. Should it be not-allowed to wardec a corp in FW? That would **** a lot of people off, as it's a big break from the way Eve always was. So most would argue that wardec'ing a corp within a militia should be possible.
Membership of militia's / factions is 'alliance - lite'. You get some of the advantages, but not all, and some of the disadvantages, but again - not all."
To people arguing that a corp within a militia should be able to 'transfer' the wardec to the militia, consider this:
1) Corp A and B join the same militia.
2) Corp A and B wardec eachother, make it mutual, and 'vote' to make that war a militia war.
3) A and B keep the mutual war within the militia going on indefinitely.
How would you like that scenario?
From your corps description:
Quote:
ACHMED's MOOCATS!(tm)
ACHMED FLEET(tm) Is a Faction Warfare PvP Corp. We don't do missions or mining realy. Just pop Frenchies.
Striving for excellence at stabbing frogs in the eyes with sharpened pencils since the day before yesterday.
NO INFIDELS! Achmed Fleet is invite only (any member of the fleet may invite)
DISCLAIMER; ACHMED FLEET(tm) is a mature corp; When joining, you accept that the tone of conversation will often be: Rude, Racist, Offensive, Random, ******ed and damn right irrelevent and crude atleast 50% of the time. Such includes but is not limited to; Cussing, Mooning, Flipping other ships the bird, jew jokes, black jokes...in fact all jokes relating to colour, height, sexuality, race, gender, choice of past time, carear and size of dong.
You accept we are totaly nuts, and may find humour in a mass Jihad of Ibis's so no moaning that fitting a Badger with cap boosters and a shield tank is a bad idea!
Going out on a limb, and assuming you're not trolling or just one hell of an imbecile (in game or out of it - can't be sure as I'm not sure that your response is RP or not)
* FW is RP (roleplay);
* SF is an RP-alliance, against any and all factions;
* SF decides to join in on the main RP-event in Eve, namely FW;
* SF is barred from officially joining in on FW (in which case it, through it's RP-history should/would have joined a separate faction, let's say 'Anarchists');
* SF decides to go into low-sec, and attack any RP'ers against it's own RP-role (hint: they're not only attacking / fighting Caldari);
* as part of their RP, SF decides to wardec members of the FW-militia's. This, as far as I know and last I checked, is fully within the 'rules and regulations' of Eve.
Please tell me where I'm wrong.
*edited for spelling* |
Ecky Ptang
Achmed Fleet
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 16:38:00 -
[467]
Originally by: Rutger Centemus
words words words
should an alliance be able to participate in fw without any of the penalties? do you understand my position or not? |
Rutger Centemus
Gallente
Joint Empire Squad
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 16:41:00 -
[468]
Originally by: Ecky Ptang
Originally by: Rutger Centemus
words words words
should an alliance be able to participate in fw without any of the penalties? do you understand my position or not?
Ok, you've started this - I'll answer yours if you'll answer mine :p |
Ecky Ptang
Achmed Fleet
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 16:57:00 -
[469]
Originally by: Rutger Centemus
Originally by: Ecky Ptang
Originally by: Rutger Centemus
words words words
should an alliance be able to participate in fw without any of the penalties? do you understand my position or not?
Ok, you've started this - I'll answer yours if you'll answer mine :p
what do you want me to reply to? yes some alliances are trying to participate under the current ruleset, a ruleset which i think is flawed. your turn pls (albeit my question was first :p) |
Arlenna Molatov
Caldari
The 59th Parallel
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 17:01:00 -
[470]
Very few people here are complaining about the actual war-deccing of a FW corp. What is that MAIN concern is that any corp can declare on a FW corp but that FW militia cannot shoot and defend their FW mates. If PVP was that MAIN goal of FW, then corp A having a war-dec should mean militia B should be able to shoot them. Since of course.....in a militia, everyone is a big happy family. It just pure fricking logic!!! Not to mention the absolute RP value.
Yea. Like anyone anywhere is going to be able to declare war on a militia group in some city....and not have repercussions from that militia across the whole country.....ok, yea...that makes a LOT of sense.
Quote:
Membership of militia's / factions is 'alliance - lite'. You get some of the advantages, but not all, and some of the disadvantages, but again - not all."
To people arguing that a corp within a militia should be able to 'transfer' the wardec to the militia, consider this:
1) Corp A and B join the same militia.
2) Corp A and B wardec eachother, make it mutual, and 'vote' to make that war a militia war.
3) A and B keep the mutual war within the militia going on indefinitely.
How would you like that scenario?
Thats the easy one. If Corp A= x militia and corp B= x militia, then no war can be either declared between the two or the war must be canceled before they join.
I really don't know the coding complexities for anything like that but I can;t imagine it would be that difficult. The problem lies with balance and how CCP want their system to work. |
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Rutger Centemus
Gallente
Joint Empire Squad
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 17:05:00 -
[471]
Originally by: Ecky Ptang
what do you want me to reply to? yes some alliances are trying to participate under the current ruleset, a ruleset which i think is flawed. your turn pls (albeit my question was first :p)
So you do agree that they are within their right? Thank you.
I do agree that the ruleset is flawed, but as I tried to explain earlier I don't really think that under the current mechanics this can be solved. I do believe the biggest problem is that alliances are not allowed, whilst corporations are. I can somewhat understand why CCP tried to keep the alliances out, in order to give the 'less organized' solo-players a possibility. They were wrong in assuming that none of the alliances would participate.
In order to have prevented this, the only option (without screwing with a lot of Eve's mechanics...) would probably have been to also not allow corporations to sign up for FW. This would have prevented the situation described by the op.
Again, I can understand some of the bad feelings described. I'm not blaming anyone for that; the only one to 'blame' would be CCP, for implementing something quite a few players thought might be nice, but not going 'all the way' with it.
Best regards,
Rutger |
Arlenna Molatov
Caldari
The 59th Parallel
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 17:20:00 -
[472]
Edited by: Arlenna Molatov on 20/08/2008 17:22:08
Originally by: Rutger Centemus
Edited by: Rutger Centemus on 20/08/2008 16:24:13
* FW is RP (roleplay);
* SF is an RP-alliance, against any and all factions;
* SF decides to join in on the main RP-event in Eve, namely FW;
* SF is barred from officially joining in on FW (in which case it, through it's RP-history should/would have joined a separate faction, let's say 'Anarchists');
* SF decides to go into low-sec, and attack any RP'ers against it's own RP-role (hint: they're not only attacking / fighting Caldari);
* as part of their RP, SF decides to wardec members of the FW-militia's. This, as far as I know and last I checked, is fully within the 'rules and regulations' of Eve.
Please tell me where I'm wrong.
*edited for spelling*
Well, first off NO, alliances have no place in FW. Why...AGAIN..you ask? Because FW is where CCP wants the lower lvl characters....noobies...to get their feet wet with PVP. Do you really think all those noobies are going to get into FW if you have 1000, 2000....5000 man alliances constantly shooting them? Yea, I didn't think so as I wouldn't either.
Again, as for war-decs most people do not have problems with that. the problems arise when
1) ATM...FW militias, when they war dec are shot in Empire space of their enemies. Corps who war-dec FW corps, are not.
2) FW militias can help each other against other militias. non- war-deccd corps cannot be helped by their militias.
3) The corps who war-dec FW corps suffer NO penalties what-so-ever in ANY Empire space. Using any RP or canon for EVE, if you war-dec anyone in a militia, uhh...that militia doesn't come to the aid of their comrades? I'm sorry but I don't think so!
4) Those corps who war dec don't even face attack from that NPC Militia's NPC ships. So that corp who war-decd a militia corp....again, those militia ships whether PC or NPC...don't come to the id of their comrades?? Again....I don't think so!
If FW is/supposed to be about RP...well then, the RP function needs to be followed. And if that is followed, you have a pretty unbalanced system right before your eyes.
...On a side-note. Of COURSE SF is going to try to troll us down and say we don;t have a fricking clue because if this system was changed, they wouldn't get all these free kills. They might actually have a fight on their hands. A fight they might actually lose at. |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 17:50:00 -
[473]
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov
...On a side-note. Of COURSE SF is going to try to troll us down and say we don;t have a fricking clue because if this system was changed, they wouldn't get all these free kills. They might actually have a fight on their hands. A fight they might actually lose at.
Actually we aren't saying we don't want it changed we have either said we are fine with a change or tried to help promote a change. What we have also done is pointed out the consequences of certain changes for the militias. I personally think, as do many of my pilots, that the systems isn't quite right yet as there should be some way of defending your militia mate. The only problem is only 1 idea so far wouldn't be open to a HUGE exploit vulnerability. We have already pointed out we would welcome the chance to be at war with the whole Militia but that will leave it open for other, nastier alliances to do the same so that really can't be considered without some form of sa***aurd such as the mechanic outlined a few hundred pages earlier where the individual corps can chose to counter dec back for free.
You see for us the reason for our interaction with FW isn't about "Cheap Kills", "Ganking Noobs" or whatever else some people think of us. We have always mounted our campaigns based on our ideology and if you asked anyone who knew us well before the start of FW what Star Fraction would be doing in regards to factional warfare I can bet you that most of them would have said something along the lines of what we are doing now. We started our campaign against the State first as it was the largest of the four militias and the backstory surrounding FW made it the obvious choice with Heth's rise to power and his xenophobia.
But as it stands I expect most won't even listen to any of this. It is the fashion now so it will stay until CCP actually weigh in with something new since their original posting on the issue back before FW even started. I am done with this thread now.
|
Beltantis Torrence
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 17:59:00 -
[474]
I see a lot of suggestions that we reform our militia by having people form corps just to war dec SF alliance. Wouldn't it make more sense to suggest SF split from their alliance and join FW as individual corps if they want to join so badly? |
Farrqua
Minmatar
Turbo Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 18:03:00 -
[475]
Edited by: Farrqua on 20/08/2008 18:04:49
I have yet to see one proposal in the assembly from any one in this thread. If I missed it, please link.
All I have seen is hand wringing and whining. You guys have not done a god damn thing except whine a complain how life is not fair.
From what I see, the militia is full of WOW rejects that want the same thing in EVE. You want your own little game you can play away from everyone else because it does not fit the way you want EVE to be.
You are not willing to work with the current mechanics and actually try to use the correct way of voicing for change because.."it's too hard and it's a big conspiracy because no one likes us and we are special because..."
I hope they yank this FW shit down. It has done nothing but create a bunch of whiny half wits that feel they are entitled because they are the customer and to hell with everyone else because they don't matter.
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 18:13:00 -
[476]
Originally by: Farrqua
Edited by: Farrqua on 20/08/2008 18:04:49
I have yet to see one proposal in the assembly from any one in this thread. If I missed it, please link.
.... I know I know this will be my last post honest....
here as supported by a number of Star Fraction pilots but not many of the people on here complaining it seems.
|
snotvomit
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 18:25:00 -
[477]
Star Fraction have just highlighted that there is a problem.
No point in criticising SF - it's the game mechanic that needs changing.
I still think the best solution would be that if SF (or other corp) attacks a member of militia fleet, then the militia FLEET can return fire.
If this only applies to militias, and only to fleets, then the scope for abuse/exploiting should be minimal.
Mud-slinging at SF doesn't help. The mechanic is flawed, not SF. |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 18:27:00 -
[478]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 20/08/2008 18:31:23
Originally by: Beltantis Torrence
I see a lot of suggestions that we reform our militia by having people form corps just to war dec SF alliance. Wouldn't it make more sense to suggest SF split from their alliance and join FW as individual corps if they want to join so badly?
We don't want to join any militia. No idea whatsoever gave you that entirely incorrect idea.
Star Fraction is an anarchist roleplay alliance that opposes nationalism in the star cluster. We would like a way to declare AGAINST any or all militias of course, but if and until that becomes possible in future patches and changes to FW mechanics we'll make do with the mechanics we have right now and keep playing the game.
As for suggesting that SF ditch 5 years of consistent and highly public roleplay ideology and join a nationalist militia that exemplifies everything our characters loathe in the background and universe of Eve online simply to satisfy your inability (read lack of desire/willpower) to respond appropriately to a wardec against caldari militia command and control corps?
Lol tbh.
Play the game. Stop whining on the forums. Join fleets, help the corps at war. Respond to adversity with courage and camaraderie and you might just find that fighting back is fun. Thats what this game is all about. And for those trying to paint this as some kind of campaign against novice pilots I invite you to examine the public campaign records for "a touch of anarchy" (our overall campaign statistics for the anti Caldari movement). Novice pilots don't fly faction-fit CNRs.
|
Barstander
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 18:41:00 -
[479]
Originally by: Heartstone
Originally by: Farrqua
Edited by: Farrqua on 20/08/2008 18:04:49
I have yet to see one proposal in the assembly from any one in this thread. If I missed it, please link.
.... I know I know this will be my last post honest....
here as supported by a number of Star Fraction pilots but not many of the people on here complaining it seems.
thanks for the link, I'm late, but I'll post there in support |
Beltantis Torrence
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 18:43:00 -
[480]
Edited by: Beltantis Torrence on 20/08/2008 18:45:20
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 20/08/2008 18:31:23
Originally by: Beltantis Torrence
I see a lot of suggestions that we reform our militia by having people form corps just to war dec SF alliance. Wouldn't it make more sense to suggest SF split from their alliance and join FW as individual corps if they want to join so badly?
We don't want to join any militia. No idea whatsoever gave you that entirely incorrect idea.
Star Fraction is an anarchist roleplay alliance that opposes nationalism in the star cluster. We would like a way to declare AGAINST any or all militias of course, but if and until that becomes possible in future patches and changes to FW mechanics we'll make do with the mechanics we have right now and keep playing the game.
As for suggesting that SF ditch 5 years of consistent and highly public roleplay ideology and join a nationalist militia that exemplifies everything our characters loathe in the background and universe of Eve online simply to satisfy your inability (read lack of desire/willpower) to respond appropriately to a wardec against caldari militia command and control corps?
Lol tbh.
Play the game. Stop whining on the forums. Join fleets, help the corps at war. Respond to adversity with courage and camaraderie and you might just find that fighting back is fun. Thats what this game is all about. And for those trying to paint this as some kind of campaign against novice pilots I invite you to examine the public campaign records for "a touch of anarchy" (our overall campaign statistics for the anti Caldari movement). Novice pilots don't fly faction-fit CNRs.
Sorry, did you say you're an anarchist *alliance*?
Your roleplay is fail. I'm not whining. I'd like to shoot at you without having to deal with sec losses and expensive war decs though or leave my corp for the explicit purpose of shooting at you.
If you want to fight get a red star like everybody else, its not like the mechanics of being in a militia are so wildly different than an alliance that it'd be any less crap roleplay for an anarchist than the alliance you're in right now.
Edited to add : All your posts talk about how Eve should cater to you, specifically. Just do me a favor and keep the crying to a minimum when this exploit is fixed. |
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