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Dave Davies
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Posted - 2008.08.21 21:40:00 -
[541]
 Originally by: Mihailovich
I used to play a lot of monopoly and used to hate to have to pay someone ú2000 for landing on a hotel on Mayfair.
What manner of perverse Moon Monopoly is this? 
----- Pop Quiz -----
Can you tell me what's wrong with this sentence. |
Victoria Ehr
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.21 22:29:00 -
[542]
Originally by: Farrqua
Edited by: Farrqua on 21/08/2008 19:45:53
The FW'rs want their own little game where outside parties can not affect it at all.
Not true at all, most of us are simply asking for the ability of the fleet to defend faction members being attacked by an outside corp.
Caldari have brought the fight every day since day one! but we arent stupid and we dont suicide, so why would i fire on jericho fraction in hi sec when my fleet mate is being ganked? I would be concorded.
jericho fraction posted just two pages ago about how fun a battle was against a caldari fleet in low sec. However they all had to deal with gate guns. Well it sounds like a mechanic problem if everyone has to get criminal flag just to fight each other. so if you guys had fun when the caldari fleet engaged, why is it a problem allowing faction fleet 15 min aggro timer so they dont have to deal with concord or gate guns for the fight?
jericho talks about how they want pvp, but refuse to accept this simple solution because they know they wont be able to easily gank who they want, when they want, on their terms.
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The path to power is up!
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Victoria Ehr
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.21 22:36:00 -
[543]
More and more caldari faction are moving to the state protectorate to avoid this jericho fraction situation. It is not being weak, it is being smart to avoid jericho fraction or others from using a flawed game mechanic from ruining decent ops.
CCP, simply allow a faction fleet to get a aggro timer on these corps that wardec and attack the faction corp members in our fleet. Let us pvp on even terms without worry of criminal flag.
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The path to power is up!
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.08.21 22:39:00 -
[544]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 21/08/2008 22:40:05
Originally by: Victoria Ehr
CCP, simply allow a faction fleet to get a aggro timer on these corps that wardec and attack the faction corp members in our fleet. Let us pvp on even terms without worry of criminal flag.
Fly real ships and tank the sentries like the rest of us?
Although I support wardecs extending to the whole militia, but if they get to shoot the whole militia without aggro, just to keep it fair. Basically, wardec the militias, I like that.
I'm not sure you would though 
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.08.21 22:49:00 -
[545]
Originally by: Victoria Ehr
More and more caldari faction are moving to the state protectorate to avoid this jericho fraction situation. It is not being weak, it is being smart to avoid jericho fraction or others from using a flawed game mechanic from ruining decent ops.
Your choice ultimately, but don't complain that you are running away from a wardec and can't then defend against said wardec. Thats like somebody throw in their hand in a game of cards and then complain they can't win the pot in the end.
Quote:
CCP, simply allow a faction fleet to get a aggro timer on these corps that wardec and attack the faction corp members in our fleet. Let us pvp on even terms without worry of criminal flag.
For the reason I and MANY other people told you in this thread - you cannot change a global mechanic so profoundly just to suit the way you want to play. You have a solution - join the corps at war. You have an evasion - leave the corps at war. Its your choice but don't try to foist an ill-thought out nonsense on the rest of the eve server because you lack the ability to fight an empire war.
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Farrqua
Minmatar
Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.21 22:55:00 -
[546]
Originally by: Victoria Ehr
More and more caldari faction are moving to the state protectorate to avoid this jericho fraction situation. It is not being weak, it is being smart to avoid jericho fraction or others from using a flawed game mechanic from ruining decent ops.
CCP, simply allow a faction fleet to get a aggro timer on these corps that wardec and attack the faction corp members in our fleet. Let us pvp on even terms without worry of criminal flag.
You know what fine. If I dec you I have all the player corps with in the militia playable. At least the player corps have made an effort to stick something out there to risk instead of turtling in a NPC corp. Players who create, run and maintain their corp with in the Militia deserve the right to defend another player corp with in the faction militia they are in.
NPC faction players do not.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.08.21 22:58:00 -
[547]
Originally by: Farrqua
Originally by: Victoria Ehr
More and more caldari faction are moving to the state protectorate to avoid this jericho fraction situation. It is not being weak, it is being smart to avoid jericho fraction or others from using a flawed game mechanic from ruining decent ops.
CCP, simply allow a faction fleet to get a aggro timer on these corps that wardec and attack the faction corp members in our fleet. Let us pvp on even terms without worry of criminal flag.
You know what fine. If I dec you I have all the player corps with in the militia playable. At least the player corps have made an effort to stick something out there to risk instead of turtling in a NPC corp. Players who create, run and maintain their corp with in the Militia deserve the right to defend another player corp with in the faction militia they are in.
NPC faction players do not.
That was the essence of the assembly hall issue that got proposed a month or so again. Allowed corporations in the militia to wardec (for free) external corporations that had issued a wardec against a militia corp. It basically allowed players prepared to stick it out there in a player corp to defend other player corps while keeping the npc miltiia people out of it. I agree entirely with the principle that if you are in the npc militia entity and thus protected from wardecs you should have no part in 3rd party wardecs whatsoever.
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Tainted OrPHeN
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.22 03:10:00 -
[548]
Edited by: Tainted OrPHeN on 22/08/2008 03:12:42
Originally by: Victoria Ehr
it is being smart to avoid jericho fraction or others from using a flawed game mechanic from ruining decent ops.
Why not organize an op against SF?
*edit*
added some more info for clarification.
Look up the corps SF has wardec'd
get in contact with X corps
plan
???
who knows what could happen
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Sunday Spade
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.22 05:13:00 -
[549]
As an alternative to the wardec/aggro solutions people are putting forward, how about changing things so that if you kill a FW pilot and are *NOT* in an opposing faction you take a more serious standings hit vs the sponsoring faction of the dead FW pilot.
Now this would have to be at the level where if a Pirate corp did over say, 30-50 FW pilots, their faction standings would be hurt but not fatally so and they could farm their faction standings back up if they choose to make the effort and stopped popping FW pilots for a bit.
On the other hand a group like SF that was boasting earlier about having offed ~500 Caldari militia ships would at that point be at or close to the -5 vs Caldari where the Empire controlled guns, etc... start reacting to the "undesireable".
Lets those who want to stick it to FW while having long-term consequences. Something that isn't present at the moment.
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Tara Armitage
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.22 07:43:00 -
[550]
Pithecanthropus, I can see that you are in denial so there is little point to continue the debate. I will say this much though, I play this game to hunt my enemies and kill them if I can. Sometimes I get killed myself. I openly seek conflict with enemies that are far more dangerous than militias. Basing arguments on assumption that fear guides my decisions is merely a fantasy of yours.
I am, still, concerned about the whole game. I want it to thrive. I am willing to, and I can afford to be on the losing side of tweaks and balancing, but I will not be in favor of tweaks that are bad for the game as a whole. These include your fail suggestion.
This concludes what I have to say about your suggestion. You are free to have the final word.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.08.22 07:59:00 -
[551]
Originally by: Victoria Ehr
More and more caldari faction are moving to the state protectorate to avoid this jericho fraction situation. It is not being weak, it is being smart to avoid jericho fraction or others from using a flawed game mechanic from ruining decent ops.
LOL pansies.
PLS SIR I WANT NOT THE SHOOTY AT ME.
SKUNK
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.08.22 08:02:00 -
[552]
Originally by: Tainted OrPHeN
Edited by: Tainted OrPHeN on 22/08/2008 03:12:42
Originally by: Victoria Ehr
it is being smart to avoid jericho fraction or others from using a flawed game mechanic from ruining decent ops.
Why not organize an op against SF?
*edit*
added some more info for clarification.
Look up the corps SF has wardec'd
get in contact with X corps
plan
???
who knows what could happen
The privateer nerfs of yesteryear proved this not to be an option people are willing to take. They prefer to whine on the forums and CCP in their infinite ignorance eventualy acquiesce.
First they came for the privateers, and star fraction said nothing
SKUNK
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Veaon
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Posted - 2008.08.22 08:05:00 -
[553]
The people who are asking for a change to the war dec system with regard to the militia are only asking for the same basic protection that alliance players already have. I see no problem with this. Just include the NPC militia corps in the war dec and price it accordingly.
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Kovid
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.22 08:15:00 -
[554]
Originally by: Veaon
The people who are asking for a change to the war dec system with regard to the militia are only asking for the same basic protection that alliance players already have. I see no problem with this. Just include the NPC militia corps in the war dec and price it accordingly.
Price your war accordingly. Ok how many corps are in the Militias you are facing? Oh wait you're not in an alliance. Good thing because you couldn't afford the war dec.
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Fejo
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Posted - 2008.08.25 14:18:00 -
[555]
Well Star Fraction you have suceeded in driving Achmed Fleet out of FW. That is the 2nd corp with the main FCs of the Caldari Militia you have driven out. What corp is the next one you use your bully tactics on ?
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Nexus Kinnon
A Few Good Men.
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Posted - 2008.08.25 14:37:00 -
[556]
Originally by: Fejo
Well Star Fraction you have suceeded in driving Achmed Fleet out of FW. That is the 2nd corp with the main FCs of the Caldari Militia you have driven out. What corp is the next one you use your bully tactics on ?
I think you still haven't understood the idea behind the Star Fraction's roleplay.
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Kovid
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.25 15:05:00 -
[557]
Originally by: Fejo
Well Star Fraction you have suceeded in driving Achmed Fleet out of FW. That is the 2nd corp with the main FCs of the Caldari Militia you have driven out. What corp is the next one you use your bully tactics on ?
2nd is inaccurate.
Next one? You can find an update to our current plans simply by looking up our current war decs in game like everyone else. It's public accessabile knowledge. It's always changing.
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Fejo
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Posted - 2008.08.25 15:11:00 -
[558]
Star Fraction's role play is to get easy fat no effort kills. you then beat your chests and tell all of EvE how great you are after ganking 1 or 2 players in a 40 man fleet in high sec. Then you boast of your low sec battle against the Militia fleet, where you were on a gate and the fleet cant tackle or jam or damp cause we use frigs and cruisers for that and the gate guns kill them. So u fight the militia fleet while the militia fleet is getting beat up by the gate guns. Oh My. The militia fleet wasnt set up to fight Star Fraction , it was set up to fight Gallente but you think you are so cool with your rotten role playing that you use for an excuse for every low life tactic you use. i understand your role playing. I understand it very well and now all of EvE is seeing what a bunch of low lifes Star Fraction has become.
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Azure Skyclad
Amarr
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.25 15:52:00 -
[559]
It's quite simple folks: Do something about us.
Thing is, we don't like your boss (Heth) and anyone who helps him. If you help him you get shot. It's no more complicated than that. We're not griefers or pirates or ********s in any general definition of the word.
Now that's sorted, coming onto the forums to whine is like asking your mammy to come and wipe the snot from your nose when you do in fact possess the equipment to do something about the problem yourself.. The only thing left to do is either try doing sometrhing about it or let the snot splash on your boots forever more. Some of my comrades have even thrown you an idea or two on how you might go about it.
Grow a pair and stand up for yourself. It's our RP stance and it's the message we're trying to get across to you here.
Not saying it's going to be easy but it is worth it in the end.
*shrugs*
Your choice.
http://ultravixen.co.uk/ |
Nexus Kinnon
A Few Good Men.
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Posted - 2008.08.25 16:25:00 -
[560]
Originally by: Fejo
The militia fleet wasnt set up to fight Star Fraction , it was set up to fight Gallente
Because the effect of hitting F1-F8 changes depending on who your target is
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.08.25 17:06:00 -
[561]
Originally by: Fejo
Star Fraction's role play is to get easy fat no effort kills. you then beat your chests and tell all of EvE how great you are after ganking 1 or 2 players in a 40 man fleet in high sec. Then you boast of your low sec battle against the Militia fleet, where you were on a gate and the fleet cant tackle or jam or damp cause we use frigs and cruisers for that and the gate guns kill them. So u fight the militia fleet while the militia fleet is getting beat up by the gate guns. Oh My. The militia fleet wasnt set up to fight Star Fraction , it was set up to fight Gallente but you think you are so cool with your rotten role playing that you use for an excuse for every low life tactic you use. i understand your role playing. I understand it very well and now all of EvE is seeing what a bunch of low lifes Star Fraction has become.
tears from the militias? Anyone would think they had signed up for PVP?
SKUNK
SKUNK
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Nogap toosmall
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Posted - 2008.08.25 17:55:00 -
[562]
Gotta say that I applaud the idea of tempting the carebears into PvP with FW
Gotta say that this is the answer to a lot of whines from pvp community about pve players...they are getting shot at, WOW!
Gotta say that trying to subvert and mess the system up if you are a pvp seems kinda wrong headed, what is it your trying to acheive exactly?
You want them all to quit and go home?
You feel left out of FW (the mechanism provided for noobs to get them into pvp, lol)?
You like breaking things becuase thats "what the cool kids do"?
Because you can?
Makes no sense to me, you get a glut of targets and you then mess up the very thing you have been asking for for years...
skills
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Kovid
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.25 18:10:00 -
[563]
Originally by: Nogap toosmall
Makes no sense to me, you get a glut of targets and you then mess up the very thing you have been asking for for years...
skills
What have we messed up and what have we been asking for for years? Enlighten me.
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Nogap toosmall
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Posted - 2008.08.25 18:25:00 -
[564]
Edited by: Nogap toosmall on 25/08/2008 18:26:32
Edited by: Nogap toosmall on 25/08/2008 18:26:12
Originally by: Kovid
Originally by: Nogap toosmall
Makes no sense to me, you get a glut of targets and you then mess up the very thing you have been asking for for years...
skills
What have we messed up and what have we been asking for for years? Enlighten me.
edit: yes i missed a comma, well spotted
primary whine from nearly every pvp player is generally related to hig sec players and their unwillingness to pvp
well ccp have created said mechanism, now your breaking it
Of course what your doing isnt an exploit, and some people (yourselves included presumably) find it entertaining
But I will be pointing everyone that whines about carebears towards your action and saying, there you go, a mechanism was provided to "try" and get them involved and someone chose to break it.
The irony is that is was a pvp corp that chose that course of action
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Hegbard
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Posted - 2008.08.25 19:13:00 -
[565]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
For the reason I and MANY other people told you in this thread - you cannot change a global mechanic so profoundly to our disadvantage.
Fixed that for you.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.08.25 19:37:00 -
[566]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 25/08/2008 19:40:53
Originally by: Nogap toosmall
But I will be pointing everyone that whines about carebears towards your action and saying, there you go, a mechanism was provided to "try" and get them involved and someone chose to break it. The irony is that is was a pvp corp that chose that course of action.
In most Mmorpgs "roleplayers" are considered to be figures of fun and derision and way below the competence of "proper" serious professional players. Yet in Eve the roleplay fraternity is about as hardcore and accomplished as it gets and when we decide to begin a campaign to punish capsuleers who sign up with a space fascist dictatorship to oppress their own people we are greeted by a tide of whining, gnashing of teeth and beard-tugging that is almost cataclysmic in puerile intensity.
Let me make it plain for you. Our roleplay intention is to break the Caldari Militia. We intend to ensure that no Caldari-aligned corporation can occupy a command and control and FC role in the militia through fear of anarchist free captains and sudden violent guerrilla strikes. From the intensity of complaints and apparent inability of the Caldari to organize any form of resistance it seems we're successful.
Maybe you'd like to negotiate terms for surrender?
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Kovid
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.25 19:43:00 -
[567]
Edited by: Kovid on 25/08/2008 19:45:11
Originally by: Nogap toosmall
primary whine from nearly every pvp player is generally related to hig sec players and their unwillingness to pvp
well ccp have created said mechanism, now your breaking it
Of course what your doing isnt an exploit, and some people (yourselves included presumably) find it entertaining
But I will be pointing everyone that whines about carebears towards your action and saying, there you go, a mechanism was provided to "try" and get them involved and someone chose to break it.
The irony is that is was a pvp corp that chose that course of action
Forget the comma, it just like goofy in general in print no matter what.
False misconceptions from your post that I contend you and people in general fall into:
- People in empire are all carebears by default because they choose to live there
- Star Fraction is trying to break FW
If you join FW you are consenting to PVP. There are parameters for it. But to say incoming war decs are breaking said parameters is a bit of a joke. We are participating in it fully as much as all the militias are.
CCP sets up complexes and most people don't care. But they want to defeat the Gallente. They see destroying ships as either fun pvp to shoot and/or a way to hurt the Gallente more than doing plexes. You'll hear often among people in the Caldari Militia that they want to only shoot the Gallente and not SF because they are the real targets. They are focused on their goals indirectly RPwise, and directly with paramaters built in.
Well guess what?! We are in factional warfare too. What you say?! Yep, Star Fraction is in it like other corps may be as well. I can't vouch for their RP goals but no matter what you do you are RPing a stance whether you like it or not. SF's goals are in tune with tearing down targets in the Caldari militia just as the Gallente. It has been consistent with our stance for years before FW was even dreamed up by CCP. We have the right to shoot you just as the militias do as well. We just don't get the privlege of shooting the base militia in high sec but that goes with the rules. We both have the same opportunities in low sec against each other with the same consequences.
Which brings me to the point of contention of breaking things. Some might say are we doing such a good job that maybe we should relax? Should we pull back because these people need to grow and build up. When is too much too much? We can draw comparisons and I could go so far as to say I should never blow up someone's ship as if I get into structure I should stop because that would be too much. I can be prospestorus in using a comparison like that if you are going to say that people in militias are carebears and they should receive special restrictions from other people.
If there was a problem with the mechanisms versus their intentions don't you think CCP would have said something by now? Anything since release? I haven't heard anything. All I have seen is that tanking navies with neutrals hostile to that faction to let others run loose is an exploit and a mechanic that needed to be fixed.
Don't you get the fact that this is how it works?
If you want the benefits of an organization with a corporation you best be sure that you collectively defend itself. You are not joining an alliance. The militia you are joining are not concerned with you or attempting to work in any ways to protect you.
Learning how to blob is not good PVP. It teaches bad habits and will lead them to a bad experience for many of them. If people come as carebears to do that and become PVPers than maybe we are doing them a favor. They can continue to do that in the NPC corp if they want until they are butchered in low sec by the opposing militia. PVP is it is testing yourself against a live opponent and trying to beat them. There is more to fighting than waiting for hours to get a fleet big enough to roam in lowsec and hope to find targets
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Kovid
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.25 19:43:00 -
[568]
Edited by: Kovid on 25/08/2008 19:43:42
But wait are we hurting their chances to learn good pvp? Well the cream rises to the top and people will come learning from their failures and draw from experience. Is the current state of some militias currently at a state that they need people to lay off as they would be considered beaten and need people to grow into that role?
Sorry, FW does have the flaw the only perceivable impact is the systems contested. It's the only measuring stick besides victory points in general. And since the Caldari still hold a system they haven't been defeated. In fact when they have no systems left they will still not be defeated. The war will still continue and nothing will change in game. No sovereignty will change and there will be only a mur mur on the news about it if we are lucky. And most of you don't read the news anyways.
Our campaign will continue with the Caldari or any other militia as we see fit in terms of our goals. Our stance towards freespace and the revolution against the controls of the oppressive empires will go on.
Try making something out of what you have instead of coming to the forums and expecting shelter. Waiting on CCP to bring anything out has always lead people to more anguish than its worth. Use the tools you have at hand and learn to adapt. The difference between PVE and PVP is things are not so predictable. You'll find yourself more rewarded when you do succeed versus a player and a scenario versus a mission.
War has come to Eve. If you want to go to the front lines, expect it to be bloody. There are riots going on, planets being taking over, leaders dying, a mothership crashed into a station, CONCORD seiged! Eve is a complete mess. This is the universe you are in. This is the setting you are currenty experiencing. And people signed up for militias.
As the militia has no leadership since they are taking orders from the higer ups you can not surrender. Until then, man your stations. You signed up for war. You are getting it.
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Kovid
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.25 19:51:00 -
[569]
To be honest I think some of the way CCP has set up FW with the navies gives players the false perception of a safety blanket of protection. They see the navies and believe there is a sandbox within a sandbox. That perception is unfortunately extended to corps interacting with FW by means war decs. The other misconception of militias = alliances also fuels the fire. Even though CCP said otherwise that it does not equate as the same thing people still fall into the trap.
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2008.08.26 01:45:00 -
[570]
Didn't read the whole thread, but the obvious solution is to disallow war-decs of militia corps by corps that are members of a player alliance.
The stated intention of the devs was for established alliances NOT to be participants in FW. If alliances are side-stepping that through war-decs, the solution is simple. Player corps not in an alliance could still war-dec away, but they might as well just join up with the militia that they're rooting for. Player alliances would be out, as was the dev's intent.
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