Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 [100] .. 144 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Hehulk
Black Sea Industries
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:16:00 -
[2971]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
[ 2008.07.28 21:58:34 ] CCP Atropos > sigh [ 2008.07.28 21:58:45 ] CCP Atropos > it's simple really [ 2008.07.28 21:58:52 ] CCP Atropos > when it becomes the de facto method for fighting [ 2008.07.28 21:58:55 ] CCP Atropos > it needs ot be nerfed [ 2008.07.28 21:59:02 ] CCP Atropos > simple as really
So, when can we expect the sniper BS nerf? Since those are the defacto for fleet warfare. Or the dread nerf? damn things are always used in POS warfare and it's ****ing me right the hell off. Hot droping black ops ftw tbqfh.
----------
It's great being minmatar, ain't it |
Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:16:00 -
[2972]
Originally by: Si Raven Edited by: Si Raven on 28/07/2008 23:03:11
Originally by: Tzrailasa [The high speeds] violates one of the rules that was quoted when CCP nerfed WCS. I can't remember the exact wording, but is was something like "Committing to a fight should mean that you can not extract from it without risk!", but this is exactly what happens today. Committing to a fight doesn't carry a risk for nano-ships that is comparable to other ships.
QFT!!
From what I've read, the pro-nano lobby is complaining about the nerf, not how it is being done.
Nice argument to Tzra , you've done your homework.
As for you, Si, I'd recognize that there are two sides to the anti-nerf lobby, those that think nanos are fine the way they are today, and those that think some nerfing is in order but that this is the wrong way to go about it.
Click me! You know you want to... |
Markas Crais
House of Dying Laggers
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:18:00 -
[2973]
What ****es me off too is that CCP didn't bother to remirror SiSi for this big test patch. If they wanted it to be effective and accurate you would think they could at least update it... or give us all lvl 5 speed skills and make sure everyone had Cybernetics 5 to put in some HG Snakes and test out the fix to this "ludicrous speed" accurately. But no, they can't do that.
|
Mr Rive
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:21:00 -
[2974]
Originally by: Serret
Originally by: Mr Rive
I MEAN SERIOUSLY... 5 hours, with 5 devs, and you think you can just ruin what some people have spent 100's of hours on working setups out, perfecting them, and spending umpteen billions developing? GG CCP
I guess the moral of the story is, get your setup right in the first 5 hours and move on, go outside, have a beer, something.... ?!?
Outside? What is this concept you speak of good sir?
|
Si Raven
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:25:00 -
[2975]
Originally by: Aenis Veros Edited by: Aenis Veros on 28/07/2008 23:08:48 Edited by: Aenis Veros on 28/07/2008 23:08:16
Originally by: Si Raven If you've been playing longer, just STFU! You had the same issues before and you managed.
You mean when every ship could fit ECM and NOS was standard-issue on any ship, and damage mods weren't stacknerfed, peak players on Tranq was around 10,000 or when you could fit multiple AB:s and MWD:s, or when even a small group could pop a ship in 5 seconds because it was before the HP-buff.
Not all those nerfs happen after the intro of snakes and polycarbs, so don't go from 1 extreme to another.
Originally by: Aenis Veros (If you really were around at that time you would realize it, dear Steam-playing faction warfare loving 3 month old troll-jockey).
Says the 10 month old power-gamer Achura character. Picking that character doesn't help your argument for balanced play! So what are you doing in your 1 man corp?
|
Tomic
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:25:00 -
[2976]
CCP start the downward spiral towards the end of EVE? Calling it here first.
|
Markas Crais
House of Dying Laggers
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:26:00 -
[2977]
Originally by: Tomic CCP start the downward spiral towards the end of EVE? Calling it here first.
I don't think you're the first Tomic, sorry. People are already calling this the NGE patch.
|
Jaabaa Prime
Minmatar Quam Singulari
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:28:00 -
[2978]
Originally by: Si Raven If you've been playing longer, just STFU!
Just hold on there with comments like this.
I think that long time players should have at least equal say and not have to endure "STFU" abuse from the likes of yourself.
I'm all for adjusting the game and making changes to it, otherwise I wouldn't still be here after over 5 years.
But what CCP is proposing here is not adjusting so that people can adapt, they are talking about a serious change in game mechanics. Sometimes, after investing literally years of training in the game, you have to draw a line as to what is adapting to game development and what is simply an over reactionary response to forum whines.
EVE is a cold and dark place, get used to having people, that have the skills to do things that you can't do yet, kill you.
You should adjust to PvP life, not the PvPers being *FORCED* to adjust so that you can grow a pair and finally fight another player like he is an NPC.
EVE is about thinking about how to attack, defend and generally getting ahead in the game. The operative word being "think". If you can't do that, then EVE probably isn't your game because other players in EVE don't think like CCP's AI NPCs, so adapt from your NPC ways. --
|
Aenis Veros
Caldari Alphaflight
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:30:00 -
[2979]
Originally by: Si Raven
Not all those nerfs happen after the intro of snakes and polycarbs, so don't go from 1 extreme to another.
No, they happened before the introduction of polycarbs, and most of them before snakes. Like I said, the game was very different before polycarbs and snakes (thanks for repeating my argument for me).
|
Si Raven
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:30:00 -
[2980]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Originally by: Si Raven From what I've read, the pro-nano lobby is complaining about the nerf, not how it is being done.
As for you, Si, I'd recognize that there are two sides to the anti-nerf lobby, those that think nanos are fine the way they are today, and those that think some nerfing is in order but that this is the wrong way to go about it.
I hope so! I'm just not going to read all 115 pages tonight/this year to find them!!
|
|
Markas Crais
House of Dying Laggers
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:30:00 -
[2981]
Originally by: Jaabaa Prime
Originally by: Si Raven If you've been playing longer, just STFU!
Just hold on there with comments like this.
I think that long time players should have at least equal say and not have to endure "STFU" abuse from the likes of yourself.
I'm all for adjusting the game and making changes to it, otherwise I wouldn't still be here after over 5 years.
But what CCP is proposing here is not adjusting so that people can adapt, they are talking about a serious change in game mechanics. Sometimes, after investing literally years of training in the game, you have to draw a line as to what is adapting to game development and what is simply an over reactionary response to forum whines.
EVE is a cold and dark place, get used to having people, that have the skills to do things that you can't do yet, kill you.
You should adjust to PvP life, not the PvPers being *FORCED* to adjust so that you can grow a pair and finally fight another player like he is an NPC.
EVE is about thinking about how to attack, defend and generally getting ahead in the game. The operative word being "think". If you can't do that, then EVE probably isn't your game because other players in EVE don't think like CCP's AI NPCs, so adapt from your NPC ways.
^ I totally agree.
|
manasi
Caldari Ceptacemia Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:36:00 -
[2982]
Edited by: manasi on 28/07/2008 23:37:16
Originally by: Markas Crais
Originally by: Tomic CCP start the downward spiral towards the end of EVE? Calling it here first.
I don't think you're the first Tomic, sorry. People are already calling this the NGE patch.
get real..the NGE re-did every class, every specialty, the whole game for gods sake (( I was there) and was almost to the pinnacle of that game was supposed to be. I needed two more weeks to be fully templated...)
This changes one factor that they ( CCP, the owners, designers, caretakers of the game) asked US our responses for...in advance...up front.
Like it or hate it at least they have asked. Hell they can/could do whatever the hell they want, it is their game we pay to play it.
Look me up you'll see I started this game in May 2004. Yes i took a break, this is a game....adapt, survive , overcome.
|
Aenis Veros
Caldari Alphaflight
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:38:00 -
[2983]
Originally by: Jaabaa Prime
I think that long time players should have at least equal say and not have to endure "STFU" abuse from the likes of yourself.
I'm all for adjusting the game and making changes to it, otherwise I wouldn't still be here after over 5 years.
But what CCP is proposing here is not adjusting so that people can adapt, they are talking about a serious change in game mechanics. Sometimes, after investing literally years of training in the game, you have to draw a line as to what is adapting to game development and what is simply an over reactionary response to forum whines.
EVE is a cold and dark place, get used to having people, that have the skills to do things that you can't do yet, kill you.
You should adjust to PvP life, not the PvPers being *FORCED* to adjust so that you can grow a pair and finally fight another player like he is an NPC.
EVE is about thinking about how to attack, defend and generally getting ahead in the game. The operative word being "think". If you can't do that, then EVE probably isn't your game because other players in EVE don't think like CCP's AI NPCs, so adapt from your NPC ways.
Wisdom, my man.
I just think there should be added options, for instance there is nothing wrong with this chain of thought:
* Let's increase the usefulness of the afterburner in PvP. * Let's improve upon the ability of the Arazu. * Let's make nano's not be the one option for PvP.
They are all solid reasons, but the solution was just :facepalm:
Increasing opportunities for PvP by removing an option of how to do it is totally wrong in my opinion. Make the others at least as viable. How about working with buffing other things instead of nerfing things? For instance by making Black Ops. battleships move ANY ship with them with their jump portal? Or by creating several ways of getting through a blob other than speed. For instance, the ability to make you use an afterburner while cloaked. (Think about it, if you have an MWD on your rapier you can't move quickly while cloaked - and it would make the Pilgrim more fun as well).
It's just innovative thinking and making IMPROVEMENTS that get people positive. While CCP currently is working in a very negative fashion of nerfing things. Of course it's gonna **** people off. Who gets ****ed off if you decide to increase several ships ability to deal with not only nano, but with other ways of doing combat too?
I think there has been a little too little use of imagination in this patch. Are the devs seriously this unimaginative? =/
|
Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:40:00 -
[2984]
Originally by: manasi This changes one factor that they ( CCP, the owners, designers, caretakers of the game) asked US our responses for...in advance...up front.
[ 2008.07.28 21:58:34 ] CCP Atropos > sigh [ 2008.07.28 21:58:45 ] CCP Atropos > it's simple really [ 2008.07.28 21:58:52 ] CCP Atropos > when it becomes the de facto method for fighting [ 2008.07.28 21:58:55 ] CCP Atropos > it needs ot be nerfed [ 2008.07.28 21:59:02 ] CCP Atropos > simple as really
Yeah, it certainly sounds like they're eager for our input and opinions, not like they've already decided and just expect us to take it like little *****es, regardless of how amazingly gamebreaking these dipshit changes are.
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
manasi
Caldari Ceptacemia Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:43:00 -
[2985]
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: manasi This changes one factor that they ( CCP, the owners, designers, caretakers of the game) asked US our responses for...in advance...up front.
[ 2008.07.28 21:58:34 ] CCP Atropos > sigh [ 2008.07.28 21:58:45 ] CCP Atropos > it's simple really [ 2008.07.28 21:58:52 ] CCP Atropos > when it becomes the de facto method for fighting [ 2008.07.28 21:58:55 ] CCP Atropos > it needs ot be nerfed [ 2008.07.28 21:59:02 ] CCP Atropos > simple as really
Yeah, it certainly sounds like they're eager for our input and opinions, not like they've already decided and just expect us to take it like little *****es, regardless of how amazingly gamebreaking these dipshit changes are.
Say what you want, they are asking....that was my point. Sure they have opinions but do you honestly think that they have not thought about the aspects that all these folks are mentioning? This is their life. This is their product, the fact that they even ask ( unheard of if you ask me) is good.
Persevere
|
Markas Crais
House of Dying Laggers
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:44:00 -
[2986]
Originally by: manasi Edited by: manasi on 28/07/2008 23:37:16
Originally by: Markas Crais
Originally by: Tomic CCP start the downward spiral towards the end of EVE? Calling it here first.
I don't think you're the first Tomic, sorry. People are already calling this the NGE patch.
get real..the NGE re-did every class, every specialty, the whole game for gods sake (( I was there) and was almost to the pinnacle of that game was supposed to be. I needed two more weeks to be fully templated...)
This changes one factor that they ( CCP, the owners, designers, caretakers of the game) asked US our responses for...in advance...up front.
Like it or hate it at least they have asked. Hell they can/could do whatever the hell they want, it is their game we pay to play it.
Look me up you'll see I started this game in May 2004. Yes i took a break, this is a game....adapt, survive , overcome.
Yes, we pay to play it. CCP wouldn't have a game if we didn't pay them (Auto Assault come to mind?). They should and need to listen to the community. It's a good business strategy.
But CCP shouldn't go and make such huge changes without giving us some sort of numbers about how many people are abusing speed. They should tell us what they expect from the players. This is a sandbox MMO, they give us these options and we do adapt. This isn't a grind like WoW where they give us new items for new levels and new dungeons to get these items in, which then obsolete our old ones. They're taking the nerfbat to some ships that should get nerfed, but they're swinging too wildly and it's impacting other aspects of the game.
The problem is that the people who haven't adapted to fighting nanos have always been vocal on the forums and now CCP is trying to change a large portion of the game which could have unforseen consequences. We simply don't know what will happen. Isn't it better to make small changes first before doing all this wacky stuff with webs, MWDs, and scrams?
|
Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:45:00 -
[2987]
Do I have to find that post of that Vagabond fitting? Do I really?
They are doing what they've been known for, shortsighted myopic nerfs.
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
Si Raven
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:48:00 -
[2988]
Originally by: Aenis Veros
Originally by: Si Raven
Not all those nerfs happen after the intro of snakes and polycarbs, so don't go from 1 extreme to another.
No, they happened before the introduction of polycarbs, and most of them before snakes. Like I said, the game was very different before polycarbs and snakes (thanks for repeating my argument for me).
Maybe I need to get some sleep because it sounds like you're repeating my argument! The game was very different between now and the period before the intro of polycarbs and snakes but after what you listed.
And I'm claiming it was only the increases in speed that has made the difference as far as nanos are concerned! Titans shouldn't affect only nanos, FW shouldn't affect only nanos, increases in subscriptions shouldn't affect only nanos.
The only important changes that affect nano cruisers that I can think of are interdictors & warp bubbles. So instead of flying cruisers and staying together, some will have to fly interceptors and the gang will have to use team work.
|
Aenis Veros
Caldari Alphaflight
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:48:00 -
[2989]
Over 3400 posts have been made as feedback, and it seems that player feedback really isn't that important anymore unless it's in favor of what CCP is doing. Well, it's their game, and I obviously pay for it (and likely will continue to). I will adapt by changing the way I play the game and accept the inevitable consequences of what they're doing. And I think most of us will.
But I think that the sacrifice made will have lasting effects that I have no clue about right now, but my best guess is that they will make the game less fun, and promote a type of game play that it actually was made to combat (one-sided cookie cutter PvP).
|
Markas Crais
House of Dying Laggers
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:48:00 -
[2990]
Originally by: Haakelen Do I have to find that post of that Vagabond fitting? Do I really?
They are doing what they've been known for, shortsighted myopic nerfs.
Yeah seriously. If they showed some knowledge as to what the problem is then I'm sure less people would be annoyed. But the sheer ignorance some of the devs have shown about their own game is shocking.
Just because they are the ones in charge doesn't necessarily mean they're right.
|
|
Aenis Veros
Caldari Alphaflight
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:49:00 -
[2991]
Originally by: Si Raven Maybe I need to get some sleep
Probably :), PvP was way different then because there were other options in combat that aren't available anymore.
|
manasi
Caldari Ceptacemia Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2008.07.28 23:50:00 -
[2992]
Quote: Isn't it better to make small changes first before doing all this wacky stuff with webs, MWDs, and scrams?
Yes it is better, yes more info would be good, I said it was good I did not say great..hell i'm a ceptor pilot that just spent 25 days training minmatar to 5 to fly a rapier for petes sake..I understand being upset and whatnot was just trying for some prespective.
we shall certainly see what comes.
TheMule
|
Hehulk
Black Sea Industries
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 00:01:00 -
[2993]
Edited by: Hehulk on 29/07/2008 00:00:55
Originally by: Haakelen Do I have to find that post of that Vagabond fitting? Do I really?
They are doing what they've been known for, shortsighted myopic nerfs.
Here you go
(I knew it was a good idea to book-mark that) ----------
It's great being minmatar, ain't it |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 00:03:00 -
[2994]
GM Atropos is completely right:
There was little variety in pvp outside of fleet engagements. It was near risk free nano's zipping around, well nigh uncatchable to anything but other nano's or web specialized ships (whom themselves were normally nano'd)
The problem is only exasperated by people who have the skills and ISK to push the system to the limit, leaving the range of just following a trend and coming near to breaking the physics engine.
CCP has always made decisions based on their desire to see variety: they've never been fans of cookie cutter setups and have always made changes to increase difference of setups and tactics (rigs, overheating, implants, boosters...things that add variety to combat)
I think most everyone can say that the prevelance of nano's has gotten to the piont that something has to be done. CCP ahs done it, but they always nerf hard then adjust. Whether these changes are harsh will be determined by testing AND the player base. SUre, you dont have input now, but Im sure CCP will monitor threads carefully and weigh well thought out arguments based on testing down on SiSi.
Now, whether Jump Bridges have really changed teh dynamic of 00 pvp to the piont that small gangs just cant do anything besides get camped in is a matter of argument. Im sure if its the case, CCP will do something about it in a subsuequet patch. But until that point, CCP knows for sure that nano's are too numerous, too fast, and too invincible to anything except a small handful of tactics and setups.
That's my conclusive post. ----------------- Friends Forever |
Velvet69
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 00:03:00 -
[2995]
Edited by: Velvet69 on 29/07/2008 00:04:19 Edited by: Velvet69 on 29/07/2008 00:04:06
Originally by: Haakelen Do I have to find that post of that Vagabond fitting? Do I really?
They are doing what they've been known for, shortsighted myopic nerfs.
You mean this one ?
-edit- got beaten too it, but yeah, it's a good one to BM
IXC Velvet69 Proud Member of 'The House of Prawn' |
Tomic
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 00:07:00 -
[2996]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg CCP has always made decisions based on their desire to see variety
Why are they making a nerf that reduces variety then? This nerf will take away all the current advantages of hac's being smaller and lighter than bc/bs leaving them pretty pointless (why use a 90m hac when you can use a 30m bc).
|
Markas Crais
House of Dying Laggers
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 00:08:00 -
[2997]
Edited by: Markas Crais on 29/07/2008 00:09:09
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg GM Atropos is completely right:
There was little variety in pvp outside of fleet engagements. It was near risk free nano's zipping around, well nigh uncatchable to anything but other nano's or web specialized ships (whom themselves were normally nano'd)
The problem is only exasperated by people who have the skills and ISK to push the system to the limit, leaving the range of just following a trend and coming near to breaking the physics engine.
CCP has always made decisions based on their desire to see variety: they've never been fans of cookie cutter setups and have always made changes to increase difference of setups and tactics (rigs, overheating, implants, boosters...things that add variety to combat)
I think most everyone can say that the prevelance of nano's has gotten to the piont that something has to be done. CCP ahs done it, but they always nerf hard then adjust. Whether these changes are harsh will be determined by testing AND the player base. SUre, you dont have input now, but Im sure CCP will monitor threads carefully and weigh well thought out arguments based on testing down on SiSi.
Now, whether Jump Bridges have really changed teh dynamic of 00 pvp to the piont that small gangs just cant do anything besides get camped in is a matter of argument. Im sure if its the case, CCP will do something about it in a subsuequet patch. But until that point, CCP knows for sure that nano's are too numerous, too fast, and too invincible to anything except a small handful of tactics and setups.
That's my conclusive post.
And once again explaining that nanos are overpowered but not saying WHY other than them being uncatchable, just like my aligned Falcon jamming at 100km+. NERF ANYTHING THAT CAN GET AWAY!!!!
|
Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 00:09:00 -
[2998]
I swear to god, it's as if you nerf whiners have talking points.
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg variety in pvp
Because homogeneous blobs are 'variety in PvP'.
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg web specialized ships
Curse + Neuts. Heavy neuts. Warhead Flare Catalyst Cerberuses. Sentries + Neuts on Drone ships. ECM + Interceptors.
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg breaking the physics engine.
Fix your worthless physics engine, then.
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg I think most everyone can say that the prevelance of nano's
I think most everyone can say that the prevalence of blobs is...
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg whether Jump Bridges have really changed teh dynamic of 00
'Roaming gangs have always been a problem!'
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg That's my conclusive post.
Your conclusive post is shit.
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 00:09:00 -
[2999]
Originally by: Tomic
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg CCP has always made decisions based on their desire to see variety
Why are they making a nerf that reduces variety then? This nerf will take away all the current advantages of hac's being smaller and lighter than bc/bs leaving them pretty pointless (why use a 90m hac when you can use a 30m bc).
Variety of ships homey. And, speed fitting is still very much a tank option for cruisers, just need a Turret disrupter...ofc, you wont be able to snub your nose at gatecamps. ----------------- Friends Forever |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 00:11:00 -
[3000]
Haaklen, you're saying w/o nanos there will be more blobs or that you wont be able to avoid the blob.
Cause I could care whichever was your intent. Avoid the blob with intelligence and roaming gangs will stay in teh same #'s. ----------------- Friends Forever |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 [100] .. 144 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |