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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Phrixus Zephyr
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:12:00 -
[31]
So this is basically a titan cynoing Arazu alt buff?
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Mitsuni Abashadoni
Minmatar The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:13:00 -
[32]
While I won't scream at the top of my lungs that all these changes are bad, it would be nice if Nozh could explain how they think these changes will achieve all the speed goals. Particularly I'd like to see how you think you'll achieve the last;
Originally by: "Nozh" Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.
In the current game state, this is mainly achieved with nano setups, which enable you to travel fast, move into enemy territory, hit targets of opportunity, and when the inevitable blob arrives, you run like hell. This is pretty much the only way small corps and gangs have to hurt larger enemies, and it's more or less the only viable solo tactic. Gatecamping also works to a certain point, but you're hardly mobile, so it's not exactly Guerilla Warfare.
There are currently quite a few effective counters to speed tanking ships, chiefly Minmatar Recons and neutralizing ships. The problem is that the people don't want to sacrifice an alt or a corpmate in a recon with webs, or fitting that heavy neut that will save their battleships, because it makes them less effective at ratting or whatever they do. Well, welcome to our world. I'd love to have more DPS on my Vagabond, but it's a trade-off. I have virtually no tank but my speed, and if you use tactics that have been debated to death, you can at least make me run.
As to risk vs. reward; I run around in a ship worth 3-400 mill, with a billion worth of implants in my head, I'm willing to take the risk, while the "zoot zoot, omg speed tanking is lame"-crowd is unwilling to sacrifice a highslot that can save their ass.
Please CCP; at least explain how you want to achieve viable guerilla warfare with these changes, because as I see it, you're about to kill the last small gang warfare tactic there is.
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Viper ShizzIe
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:13:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Verite Rendition It's been a long time coming. I'm glad to see that speedtanking will no longer be the only effective way to fight in small groups.
Yeah, now there will be no way to fight effectively in small groups.
Great change.
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Drenan
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:13:00 -
[34]
AT LAST!!
/me sits down with popcorn to watch the flood of nano*** tears that will be generated by this wonderful news from CCP.
Three cheers for Nozh!
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Arcane Carnage
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:13:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Arcane Carnage on 25/07/2008 11:15:03
Originally by: CCP Nozh
But this is something we'll be keeping a close eye on.
we will heed whining, finally submit and nerf all other races accordingly... -
Illuminati - Pathetic Legion
Ures truly kickin' ass Carn |
Randomness16
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:15:00 -
[36]
Nano-er tears are so much more satisfying than carebears
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Siqul
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:15:00 -
[37]
Wow, you can really tell which alliances use nano's the most, huh? On the flipside, this brings speed back to where it should be, with more reliance on player skill rather than who's ship has the highest passive regen and speed.
Long live our Utopian-beard-loving overlords?
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Shintai
Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:15:00 -
[38]
I love the proposals in the blog!
--------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Tomic
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:15:00 -
[39]
My first thoughts are that you fail on the final point made in the goals "Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic." With yet another speed nerf (already had two) you make guerrilla warfare less and less viable. The only thing that makes it possible for a small gang to fight a larger gang is the ability to "speed tank". In other words, the fact that missiles and drones can't hit you, and that larger ships have trouble hitting smaller ships at speed is the ONLY thing keeping you alive. If you take this away, all you will do is give every advantage to the blob. It seems to me that far from discouraging blob warfare, CCP actually seek to encourage it. Guess this is the end of the lag free fight :(
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XxAngelxX
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:16:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Mitsuni Abashadoni While I won't scream at the top of my lungs that all these changes are bad, it would be nice if Nozh could explain how they think these changes will achieve all the speed goals. Particularly I'd like to see how you think you'll achieve the last;
Originally by: "Nozh" Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.
In the current game state, this is mainly achieved with nano setups, which enable you to travel fast, move into enemy territory, hit targets of opportunity, and when the inevitable blob arrives, you run like hell. This is pretty much the only way small corps and gangs have to hurt larger enemies, and it's more or less the only viable solo tactic. Gatecamping also works to a certain point, but you're hardly mobile, so it's not exactly Guerilla Warfare.
There are currently quite a few effective counters to speed tanking ships, chiefly Minmatar Recons and neutralizing ships. The problem is that the people don't want to sacrifice an alt or a corpmate in a recon with webs, or fitting that heavy neut that will save their battleships, because it makes them less effective at ratting or whatever they do. Well, welcome to our world. I'd love to have more DPS on my Vagabond, but it's a trade-off. I have virtually no tank but my speed, and if you use tactics that have been debated to death, you can at least make me run.
As to risk vs. reward; I run around in a ship worth 3-400 mill, with a billion worth of implants in my head, I'm willing to take the risk, while the "zoot zoot, omg speed tanking is lame"-crowd is unwilling to sacrifice a highslot that can save their ass.
Please CCP; at least explain how you want to achieve viable guerilla warfare with these changes, because as I see it, you're about to kill the last small gang warfare tactic there is.
QFT would love to hear it.
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Dance Puppets, Dance |
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Kelron Queldine
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:16:00 -
[41]
Sounds good, but I'm worried about how it will affect blaster ships. A has been mentioned, they need an MWD to get in range and they need a web to stay there. The warp scrambler change will hurt close range cruisers a lot, and while it will have less effect on blaster battleships the web nerf will be a big problem. |
Deros
Minmatar Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:16:00 -
[42]
the only question that i would like to see answered by CCP is how they intend for small gangs to engage larger forces with these new changes. will it still be possible, or will it simply become a case of more ships wins.
D
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Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:18:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Kazuma Saruwatari on 25/07/2008 11:19:15 I will only support any changes to the current speed mechanics iff:
-Ships that worked only on speed tanking REMAIN speed tankers, but not stupidly fast that they're untouchable against weapon systems/tactics specifically designed to get them. (note: Vaga, inties) -AB's become viable speed boosts in emergencies (overheat bonus boost. Having to fit an MWD as "required" in today's PvP is gimping setups that work very well on just the AB) -That CCP take a serious look at the implications of any speed change in correlation between long-range and short-range PvP. -that CCP consider the small-gang warfare vs big blob implications. Hit-and-run should still work, only not as overpowered. -
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Crae Matreki
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:18:00 -
[44]
A very interesting alteration.. it opens up all sorts of new ship tactics!
Am I right in thinking that only a short-range scrambler is intended to deactivate an MWD?
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:19:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 25/07/2008 11:20:47
Originally by: Mitsuni Abashadoni As to risk vs. reward; I run around in a ship worth 3-400 mill, with a billion worth of implants in my head, I'm willing to take the risk, while the "zoot zoot, omg speed tanking is lame"-crowd is unwilling to sacrifice a highslot that can save their ass.
Please CCP; at least explain how you want to achieve viable guerilla warfare with these changes, because as I see it, you're about to kill the last small gang warfare tactic there is.
I agree with this 100% - in order to achieve so-called "ridiculous" speed in game one has to invest heavily into it. If someone is willing to put on the line:
1) High Grade Snake Set - 3 Billion ISK (Moderate Price) 2) Shaqil's Implant - 500 Mill (Moderate Price) 2) 2x Polycarbs T2 - 800 Mill (Moderate Price)
We are talking 4.3 Billion ISK just in the few components, then it is indeed something "special." When Pirate implants were introduced, it was said, that "having a full set will mean that it is something really unique, and expensive." At this point I do not see anything but devaluation of the time and effort that was put into building a "Speedy Gonzales" setup - since for me, personally, it took almost a year and one hell of a lot of ISK.
Ok, and where is the "Guerilla Warfare" thing? Or added boost to ABs to make them more viable as alternative to a "must have" MWD?
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Raquel Trotter
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:19:00 -
[46]
Well what will be left for minmatar ships now? Speed is their only advantage currently over other races ships for most classes. I hope to hell that CCP are considering how minnie ships are balanced with other races after this change..
Also agree with other ppls comments that this seems to be another step in encouraging blobbing tactics.
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Dr Slaughter
Minmatar Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:19:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 25/07/2008 11:24:53 Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 25/07/2008 11:22:43 Great. Fantastic. Let's all go back to blob in sniper fleets cos that's so much more fun.
Why not just make the entire cluster dead space while you're at it.
Originally by: "Jinx Barker" stuff about money, time and effort to get a decent speed setup
<-- they don't really care much about the individual player, or even minorities, and especially not if you're been around for years playing the game. They need lots of new players.. and the new players haven't spent a year getting a snake set.... or whatever cool thing got nerfed.
CCP.. please... just implement scripts (kinetic damping & engine damping) on webbers BEFORE trying such a huge re-balance. The odds of the changes seriously breaking the game for many of us seems unwarranted?
Rabies is unexpected ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ dealing with the UNDERPANTS of eve since 2004 |
Tar om
Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:19:00 -
[48]
Will Rapier/Huginn receive an increased bonus to counter the drop in module stats? Or will they become useless? -- DEVS get multiple CPUs/Cores per system and all will be forgiven.
Parallel Python |
Primnproper
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:19:00 -
[49]
The rest of it I can see the need for, but....
Quote: Warp scramblers (the close range ones), are due for a complete makeover. Our current idea is to have MWD's deactivate as soon as they get hit by their effect, and continue to be disabled until the effect is lifted.
WTF I mean really, is there any reason for this, other than because some people can't cope with the fact that a mwd has warp in the name and wasn't effected by them.
Say goodbye to anyone ever flying a short range intie then, its just totally unnessisary on top of all the other changes.
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Kwa Kaine
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:20:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Mitsuni Abashadoni While I won't scream at the top of my lungs that all these changes are bad, it would be nice if Nozh could explain how they think these changes will achieve all the speed goals. Particularly I'd like to see how you think you'll achieve the last;
Originally by: "Nozh" Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.
In the current game state, this is mainly achieved with nano setups, which enable you to travel fast, move into enemy territory, hit targets of opportunity, and when the inevitable blob arrives, you run like hell. This is pretty much the only way small corps and gangs have to hurt larger enemies, and it's more or less the only viable solo tactic. Gatecamping also works to a certain point, but you're hardly mobile, so it's not exactly Guerilla Warfare.
There are currently quite a few effective counters to speed tanking ships, chiefly Minmatar Recons and neutralizing ships. The problem is that the people don't want to sacrifice an alt or a corpmate in a recon with webs, or fitting that heavy neut that will save their battleships, because it makes them less effective at ratting or whatever they do. Well, welcome to our world. I'd love to have more DPS on my Vagabond, but it's a trade-off. I have virtually no tank but my speed, and if you use tactics that have been debated to death, you can at least make me run.
As to risk vs. reward; I run around in a ship worth 3-400 mill, with a billion worth of implants in my head, I'm willing to take the risk, while the "zoot zoot, omg speed tanking is lame"-crowd is unwilling to sacrifice a highslot that can save their ass.
Please CCP; at least explain how you want to achieve viable guerilla warfare with these changes, because as I see it, you're about to kill the last small gang warfare tactic there is.
Quotin dis ^^
Also is it me or did the blaster mega just get ****ed in the ass?
EVE Online Customer Support <- It would be nice if this actually existed.
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Sid Zero
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:20:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Viper ****zIe CCP have effectively killed small gang/solo PvP in EVE if even half of these changes go though.
This.
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Cosy
Gallente Porandor
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:20:00 -
[52]
adioooooooooooooooos to small gangs
first get your server ready for big fights THEN kill small pvp gang
if i remember well some time ago u said small pvp need a boost and u make this ................. SEAMS FW militia cry alot
PD: i never fly a nano HAC
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Any complaints can be directed towards our Music Director
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Jackie Fisher
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:21:00 -
[53]
So we'll need 3 modules to tackle instead of 2 and still need to get within 10KM of an MWDing ship to slow it down (overloading/faction goodies excepted).
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:21:00 -
[54]
I can't stop laughing. Thanks Nozh.
In case anyone wants to quit. Please think of me and hand over your stuff before you leave. Thanks in advance.
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Arcane Carnage
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:21:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Deros *WORDS" ...it simply become a case of more ships wins.
D
deros promoted to head of PL tactics.
recruitment now open must be able to fly a drake t2 tank and missiles. -
Illuminati - Pathetic Legion
Ures truly kickin' ass Carn |
Lily Cole
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:21:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Crae Matreki A very interesting alteration.. it opens up all sorts of new ship tactics!
Am I right in thinking that only a short-range scrambler is intended to deactivate an MWD?
That's what it says.
Prenerf: Range needed to stop a vagabond: 9km. Or 71km with nice huggin. Postnerf: 7.5km, or about 30km with a nice billion officer fitted Scrambler.
And they're calling it a speed nerf... weird. Looks like a huge buff. You go slower, and are harder to catch because of it. weird man.
Minmatar just can't get enough buffs it seems. Just keep on stacking them up. |
Lt Angus
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:21:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Raquel Trotter Well what will be left for minmatar ships now? Speed is their only advantage currently over other races ships for most classes. I hope to hell that CCP are considering how minnie ships are balanced with other races after this change..
Also agree with other ppls comments that this seems to be another step in encouraging blobbing tactics.
if they are faster before the nerf they are faster after the nerf, overall speed is preety meaningless, relitive speed is what counts and it isnt changing much
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Lt Angus
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:22:00 -
[58]
and as said earlier this makes arazu the new rapier
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Zaskarr
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:22:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kelron Queldine Sounds good, but I'm worried about how it will affect blaster ships. A has been mentioned, they need an MWD to get in range and they need a web to stay there. The warp scrambler change will hurt close range cruisers a lot, and while it will have less effect on blaster battleships the web nerf will be a big problem.
So you'll have reason to fit an AB instead of MWD. This is also first implementation, it may change. __________________ How do I shot web? |
shimmyckus
Minmatar Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:23:00 -
[60]
Oh well...
Hope then CCP will bring back 30 and 90 days GTC after this changes so everyone can afford to have couple noob scouts before they decide to go anywhere solo...
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