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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
DeadDuck
Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:42:00 -
[571]
Really I dont understand the whine. Speed has been nerfed but it was nerfed all over the ships classes. The webbers are going to be nerfed and 7.5 km scramblers have to reach very close to make any effect.
I remember to read fit neutralizers to counter nanos... well nanopilots fit neutralizers to neut the intys... you will not have problems then, even if scrambled by the 7.5 Km ones.
Speed was completly unbalanced. I think that now thinks will be alright. AB's will be a solution again and abortions like LSE Zealots (!) will belong to pass.
________________ God is my Wingman |
Hoshino Rika
Caldari GBTeam
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:42:00 -
[572]
Originally by: Ikvar
Originally by: Ikvar DO NOT RUIN BLASTER SHIPS!
P.S. I wholly support the nano nerf, however the MWD disable thing is potentially death to blaster boats. To those of you who are saying 'Fit an afterburner' etc, you try flying a Blasterthron or something with an AB and tell me how that works out for you.
when blasterthron enters 7.5km range the target is already alost in popti, and your ionetria is so high that before you slow down you will be at 0
"Wellcome to Rivendell... Mr Anderson"
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:42:00 -
[573]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Check it out on sisi come monday. These changes need play testing by a lot of people, which is why we are giving so much time for you guys to play around with it (about a month).
The problem as I see it with using SISI as a guide to how it will work on Tranq is the simple numbers game. There won't be the blobs to test and see if guerrilla warfare is still viable. There won't be the sitting empires defending against the smaller alliance/corp to try out whether the defensive advantage is over the bar even more so. Some of the simpler changes, which are in the main simply a matter of comparing one number with another, will get tested and you should indeed get reasonably accurate results but how do you plan on testing these things?
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Xaen
Caldari Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:43:00 -
[574]
Originally by: Siqul Wow, you can really tell which alliances use nano's the most, huh? On the flipside, this brings speed back to where it should be, with more reliance on player skill rather than who's ship has the highest passive regen and speed blobs.
Long live our Utopian-beard-loving overlords?
You misspelled blob. I fixed it for you. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:43:00 -
[575]
Originally by: Hoshino Rika
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
The fact that they get a warp scram/disruptor range bonus? So they can now disable MWDs from like 20-30km away?
nope actualy 15-22 ( with domination scrambler )30 km is possible though, with a gang links >_>but if there is such gate camp your single nano would die anyway <_< though it will make arazu usefull in fleetbattles (somewhat) as it could slow down the tackler mwding for BSes, rhough i have doubts about survivability
You factor heat into that?
Click me! You know you want to... |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:44:00 -
[576]
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 25/07/2008 15:44:26
Originally by: Ikvar
Originally by: Ikvar DO NOT RUIN BLASTER SHIPS!
P.S. I wholly support the nano nerf, however the MWD disable thing is potentially death to blaster boats. To those of you who are saying 'Fit an afterburner' etc, you try flying a Blasterthron or something with an AB and tell me how that works out for you.
This, basically. -
DesuSigs |
Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:45:00 -
[577]
Originally by: Heartstone
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Check it out on sisi come monday. These changes need play testing by a lot of people, which is why we are giving so much time for you guys to play around with it (about a month).
The problem as I see it with using SISI as a guide to how it will work on Tranq is the simple numbers game. There won't be the blobs to test and see if guerrilla warfare is still viable. There won't be the sitting empires defending against the smaller alliance/corp to try out whether the defensive advantage is over the bar even more so. Some of the simpler changes, which are in the main simply a matter of comparing one number with another, will get tested and you should indeed get reasonably accurate results but how do you plan on testing these things?
/signed
The eft can do what ccp are asking but as per usual the reality on the main server is totally differant.
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Scrapple
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:45:00 -
[578]
Originally by: techzer0
Originally by: Roland Childe Also i quite like the minmatar, and it makes me cry a little when i see how they're treated. I dont want to turn this into a boost minmatar thread, i just wanted my to voice my concerns about the announced chances.
You won't... But I will.
Minmatar have some of the worst skill training req's in game. You have to train two weapon systems and two tanks, or you can only fly half of the ships. Wow... yeah, that's useful, let's nerf some of the specialized ships
I have to agree with this post. Minmatar have very little left to be good at. Our capitals suck (for a myriad of reasons), we're out damaged by rails, and everything that techzer0 said. What will Minmatar have left after this nerf? maybe that we can change damage type (cool, but not cool enough)? You necessarily must consider the effect on Minmatar with this change because not only are minmatar ships generally the fastest, but also the only effective ships that get a web range bonus. Like it or not, the effect on minmatar must be considered.
I think you need to try again, these changes will screw too many people who have trained too hard. An other problem with this change is that it indirectly makes Titans even more powerful when they decided to DD from 230km and warp off. They are already tough enough to tackle, this will just make them that much more overpowered. Without interceptors that go 10kms+, all we'll be left with is trying to warp to something near a titan and bubble it (much harder).
How about something simple like changing the range of a web to be more in line with a warp disruptor? Leave the rest of the game mechanics the same.
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Redbad
Minmatar TSL Wolfpack
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:45:00 -
[579]
Originally by: Sid Zero I have a suggestion for keeping Guerilla warfare tactics viable, even making it more viable, with the proposed nano nerf.
3) warp core stabilisers get a revamp: instead of making a ship completely immune to scrambling, they introduce a delay before scrambling kicks in. And throw away the ridiculous drawbacks currently associated with them - gimping your setup by dedicating 1 or 2 slots to these modules is already enough.
I like that idea!
RB
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Beguile
Minmatar Remedy Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:45:00 -
[580]
I usually never respond to this stuff but ccp has managed to pull me out of my forum lethargy.
Geez
CCP states they want to decrease blobs, but this just encourages it. I can live with alot of it, but why nerf mwd's. Theres skill involved? Is that why? Want to attract more wow players?
I'm not a heavy nano pilot, in fact I win a lot of fights because I am slower and tougher, intie wise my claw just commits and thats it most of the time. But killing hit and run by nerfing mwd so scramblers turn them off? Speed on bigger ships needed to be controlled but swinging all the way in the other direction, come on ccp for those of us who have played for years---we're getting sea sick from the back and forth motion.
Blobs ftw, solo and small group hit and run ftl. Lag ftw as usual.
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Entelechia
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:45:00 -
[581]
I think the spirit of the changes is fine, nano-ships at the high end were getting a little ridiculous.
I think the changes when taken in their current form are way too heavy handed, especially to Minmatar ships like the Rapier. My other big issue is with the cost/power curve of a HAC. Most people who don't fly them probably don't realize that they cost as much as a battleship but don't insure for more than a T1 cruiser. Lowering the survivability of a ship like that doesn't seem like a great idea.
Take the Ishtar for instance, which was already on the razor thin edge of being too slow to be viable as a nano ship. Now it will definitely be too slow. So what's the point of flying the Ishtar now? My Ishtar cost me more than my Megathrons or Rokhs do, but is a paper tiger in comparison. If HAC speeds are going to get reduced, then their tank needs to be increased proportionally.
Again, I like the spirit of the change, but I think in addition to ratcheting back some of the changes, CCP needs to look VERY closely at individual ships and how they are affected by this. Some ships, like the Rapier and the Ishtar, are taking a huge nerf, all because some people in Vagabonds and Sacrileges are going too fast. So I don't disagree with an across the board speed nerf, just the severity and how certain ships are unfairly disadvantaged by the change.
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Uuve Savisaalo
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:46:00 -
[582]
thank effing god.
finally.
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Ikvar
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:46:00 -
[583]
Originally by: Hoshino Rika
Originally by: Ikvar
Originally by: Ikvar DO NOT RUIN BLASTER SHIPS!
P.S. I wholly support the nano nerf, however the MWD disable thing is potentially death to blaster boats. To those of you who are saying 'Fit an afterburner' etc, you try flying a Blasterthron or something with an AB and tell me how that works out for you.
when blasterthron enters 7.5km range the target is already alost in popti, and your ionetria is so high that before you slow down you will be at 0
Not in every situation, plus if someone can then AB away you're ****ed in the shitter. Remember T2 warp scrams can reach almost 11k overloaded. I'm not saying that this WILL ruin blaster boats, I'm saying they'd better do it in a way that doesn't. If my lovely Megats and Hyps are still usable after this then I wholly support it as probably the best change to the game ever.
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Matrixcvd
Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:46:00 -
[584]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Its mainly the huge multipliers you get when combining large numbers of speed bonuses which used to get you to the 10-30km/sec speeds. They have been "nerfed".
No, absolutely not and I am afraid we have detected humans that can't breath but are still walking. Oxygen helps your thinking chief. Do you even use your brain? MWDs stopping to scramblers. All MWDs getting the same boost, the list goes on and on.
For all of you nutjobs in this game and especially at CCP, I have seen 1, thats it 1 vaga go over 9k/s. 3 Intys around 24k/s. THATS IT. ALl of this nonsense you keep bringin up is just total garabage and has been brought on by FW. WHen you listen to complete PVP failures, will see how this game lasts
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:46:00 -
[585]
Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 25/07/2008 15:47:20
Originally by: CCP Dionysus This weekend's knee-jerk comments will be taken with a large grain of salt.
Why do we have a thread for this then? ---
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Royal Ace
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:46:00 -
[586]
The Webber strenght on Rapier/Huginn should be boosted
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Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:47:00 -
[587]
"...ours is a world of volatile thermodynamics where all tension has its equal but opposite counterpart..." True. CCP keep going and thx for sharing your view with us.
"Caldari overlord issue" : I'm not afraid of missiles and I'm not flying nano HACs, check this.
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Hoshino Rika
Caldari GBTeam
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:47:00 -
[588]
Edited by: Hoshino Rika on 25/07/2008 15:47:24 true forgot bout heat,( it will be 23,2km on domination, 22 on TS,) but heat wont help with longer engagement, and as i said in short ones , is there is arazu , there probably is rapier anyway >_> so seriously no diference
edit: but noone forbids you from fiting faction disru and stay at 28 >_>
"Wellcome to Rivendell... Mr Anderson"
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CCP Dionysus
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:47:00 -
[589]
Originally by: KingCappo
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
The basic speeds in the 1k-3k/sec areas are basically untouched, in fact boosted in a few cases.
Its mainly the huge multipliers you get when combining large numbers of speed bonuses which used to get you to the 10-30km/sec speeds. They have been "nerfed".
So ships that are supposed to be "speedy" like the vaga will still be able to break 4 km/s?
With a few rigs, T2 overdrives and microwarpdrive and some implants, I can easily break 4km/sec with a vagabond. Then you can add gang bonuses, boosters, etc.
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Xaen
Caldari Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:47:00 -
[590]
Originally by: Lt Angus
Originally by: Raquel Trotter Well what will be left for minmatar ships now? Speed is their only advantage currently over other races ships for most classes. I hope to hell that CCP are considering how minnie ships are balanced with other races after this change..
Also agree with other ppls comments that this seems to be another step in encouraging blobbing tactics.
if they are faster before the nerf they are faster after the nerf, overall speed is preety meaningless, relitive speed is what counts and it isnt changing much
Except that you'll now get torn apart by missiles and drones.
If this goes through, HACs are dead. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
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Xavras
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:48:00 -
[591]
What you should do CCP is start playing your own game... Not on some sick test server, on TQ so you know anything about how it's being played. My POV: 1. Majority of solo kills you get in f/x a vagabond on heavy well skilled targets is not because you speed tank that good, it's because you have a set of ECM drones that can JAM a BS or CS long enough so he cant hit you, or neutralise you. 2. Nerf polycarbons, cause they shouldnt be stronger than nanofibers, thats good. But instead of nerfing boosters/snakes/and sh|tload of other things with it, try how it works first. Then, and only then try changing more things. 3. If changes you proposed will be implemented like they look right now: - You'll have new vagabond = arazu, IMBA ship that can scramble and "web" you at the same time, aplying shitload of EW at the same time. - Everyone and their mother will have cloak on their roaming ship. Speaking of which - cloaking capitals/supercapitals are well balanced yeah? - You're gonna make eve-online -> camp online. Cause really, how many ships will be able to get back to gate or bail out of the bubble? Yeah, I forgot that then you'll have more subscritions cause a lot of ppl will pay for 2nd account just for scouting... (or that's what you wish for) 4. I didnt know that you can get a cruiser going faster than interceptor with same class of fitting. Thanks for the info. 5. You should be able to speed tank drones and guns of your size with good fitting. If you wish to encourage ppl to think tactically dont make eve game in which BS without web can hit nanocruiser orbitting it. 6. You fail to see that aplication of heat on MWD is imbalanced, how come? That's obvious, you get sick increase in speed... But yeah, nerf snakes, claymores, x-instinct's etc 7. Quiz: what's more IMBA vagabond that can go 12km/s and cant hit sh|t or a ragnarok that can DD, warp out in <8s and then safely cloak?
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:48:00 -
[592]
Originally by: Del Torres The Dev giveth and taketh. They say you taketh one option of guerillia warfare - giveth them another one.
I myself would like more options for smallscale PVP. But Eve never worked in favor of this. Everyone tries to improve his chances of survival (Leeroy 4tw). Some do with bringing more ships, some do with using tactics that are hard to counter/adapt to. But the intention is the same. Funny both sides argue so hard...
But I can't come up with an option. Now we have to extremes. The blob and nanos. Both suck from the other point of view. But I guess, in the end, we all want to have fun. And we can agree that a good fight is almost always fun. The most fun I had in engagements that were even numbered, because noone would run for the hills but stay and fight till the end.
The one that comes with a solution to force people to fight in even numbers will be a rich guy because he will get all his dreams can buy by CCP.
I for one think, flight formations with gangs may encourage this. But I did not hear much of them since the leadership skills were introduced...
Quotin' dis for truth. It's just like the battle against lag. Find the ultimate solution, and spend the rest of your life on hawaii..
As long as the gallente and minmatar recons are looked at during testing, i think the changes could make eve a little more interesting.
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:48:00 -
[593]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus With a few rigs, T2 overdrives and microwarpdrive and some implants, I can easily break 4km/sec with a vagabond. Then you can add gang bonuses, boosters, etc.
What booster, exactly, will increase speed? Jesus christ, read your own god damn blog. ---
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:48:00 -
[594]
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth
Originally by: CCP Dionysus This weekend's knee-jerk comments will be taken with a large grain of salt. If you (in general "you") want to do something about these changes, then get on sisi and try out various scenarios and give feedback then :)
Why do we have a thread for this then?
Actually I was wondering this and then it came to me that it is somewhere for people to vent which is why this will be my last post on here for now as anything I post in this thread will, by a CCP employee's own admission, not be considered as valid as one I post in a few days even if I think it through the same amount. Good to know.
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Veldya
Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:49:00 -
[595]
Edited by: Veldya on 25/07/2008 15:49:10
Originally by: Cutesmile CCP need more missile speed and boosted explosion velocity, and they are completed the Caldari Online.
So I can shoot someone 200+km in a sniper turret BS and it hits instantly or I can shoot a missile which takes 25 seconds to reach the target if I am in a missile boat. Yeah, I can see the favoritism, should be called Caldari Online.
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Lt Angus
Caldari Lt Angus Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:49:00 -
[596]
Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: Lt Angus
Originally by: Raquel Trotter Well what will be left for minmatar ships now? Speed is their only advantage currently over other races ships for most classes. I hope to hell that CCP are considering how minnie ships are balanced with other races after this change..
Also agree with other ppls comments that this seems to be another step in encouraging blobbing tactics.
if they are faster before the nerf they are faster after the nerf, overall speed is preety meaningless, relitive speed is what counts and it isnt changing much
Except that you'll now get torn apart by missiles and drones.
If this goes through, HACs are dead.
thats why they should nerf missile dps since they can hit everything now while the rest of the guns have to track with 50% webs
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
teji
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:49:00 -
[597]
Rebalance speed fine even if you are taking an overly heavy hand with it.
But leave webs and scrams alone. Well if you can't do that just leave webs alone.
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Lorna Loot
Caldari Nox Eternus
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:49:00 -
[598]
Originally by: Beguile I usually never respond to this stuff but ccp has managed to pull me out of my forum lethargy.
Geez
CCP states they want to decrease blobs, but this just encourages it. I can live with alot of it, but why nerf mwd's. Theres skill involved? Is that why? Want to attract more wow players?
I'm not a heavy nano pilot, in fact I win a lot of fights because I am slower and tougher, intie wise my claw just commits and thats it most of the time. But killing hit and run by nerfing mwd so scramblers turn them off? Speed on bigger ships needed to be controlled but swinging all the way in the other direction, come on ccp for those of us who have played for years---we're getting sea sick from the back and forth motion.
Blobs ftw, solo and small group hit and run ftl. Lag ftw as usual.
Huge sig is ****ing huge!
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Ikvar
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:49:00 -
[599]
Originally by: Xaen
If this goes through, HACs are dead.
HACs have been dead in their original role at least since T2 BCs came out.
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Xyleya
moon7empler Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:49:00 -
[600]
First off, I can't be bothered to read all of that 21 pages allready posted, so don't yell at me, because I'm repeating anything allready said.
I don't really understand, why people start crying about the announced changes, as they don't really change much of the current situation.
OK, what does actually change alot is Warp Scramblers interrupting MWDs. An Arazu or Lachesis do profit from this, as they'll have a range-bonus making it possible to reach out up to 18km with T2-scramblers with LvL 5. The Interceptors ment to tackle have only 11.3km with LvL 5, which is still in web-range and deadly.
Webs getting reduced to 60%? Who cares? Multiple webs from a Rapier do their work still pretty good ((5000m/sec - 60%)-60%) = 800m/sec instead of todays 50m/sec. This is actually in favour for the nano-Ships, which should've no hassle in killing Ceptors withn a few seconds to start with, so the new Warp Scramblers are not very frightening tbh.
Speed getting nerfed? So What? It get's nerfed for everyone, and I don't care, if my Vaga get's it's speed reduced from 5000m/sec to 4000m/sec actually, as it's still enough speed to head back to the gate.
Also there's no difference between:
5000m/sec vs. 1000m/sec or 3000m/sec and 1000m/sec. I'm still much more faster and Missiles do very little damage even at those 3000m/sec and turrets still not tracking fast enough, while I orbit at 15+km.
The only thing that get's cut down really is the speed of ships, that we're never intended to go 3000+m/sec like an Ishtar, Zealot, etc...
Let's wait and see on SiSi from monday on, what we're getting from those changes, but I doubt, that it will be all that bad like people claim it to be.
And yes... I fly nano-Ships allmost 100% of my time. .
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