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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Clueless Alt
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:07:00 -
[1171]
I ♥ the NerfBat ♥
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Xelloss Metallum
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:09:00 -
[1172]
Originally by: Furry Crusader I like where this thread is going.
The rickshaw?
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:09:00 -
[1173]
Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 25/07/2008 20:10:09
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Originally by: Lt Angus Sounds good overall, but feel it might nerf blaster ships more then speed ships
On the other hand, if you fit a warp scrambler and stasis webifier, the overall speed reduction is much greater than 90%. That is, if your target is using a MWD not an afterburner.
But this is something we'll be keeping a close eye on.
Why nerfing webs, I really don't understand ?
"web is gameover", I really don't agree ! Since you still can instant warp out like how the game behaves when webbing an unaligned warping-out freighter, where is it gameover ?
The gameover is "web/scrambled". You just said web+scramble have a "overall speed reduction is much greater than 90%", so am I just dumb or isn't it much greater gameover than before ?
I really don't understand the reasons of this web nerf.
To me, all your problems would have been solved by doing this simple tiny thing : putting scripts on webs. For a tech II web version, something like 3 configs : - max velocity bonus -90 Optimal Range 10 km with a velocity script - max velocity bonus -72.5 Optimal Range 15 km without script - max velocity bonus -45 Optimal Range 20 km with a range script <--- there, most nanoships can't shoot real damage at more than 20km.
Oh and since I really hope someone read this, since CCP will touch all the tracking by modifying transversal speeds, will not solving once and for all the target painting problem too (aka the "not on my boat module") ?
Fetchez la vache !
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Mr Rive
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:09:00 -
[1174]
Originally by: Khanid Voltar
Originally by: Euriti
Originally by: Areo Hotah
I am on the receiving end of (AAA) nano-hacs daily. I have had an invasion of the old TRI in my space.
Observations from me fighting nano gangs: -nobody takes booster pills -Claymores are quite rare to see, and tend do die a lot. -Hardly anyone uses snakes -There are plenty of ways to kill (part of) a nanogang, without everybody being in a Rapier or Huginn. They bring a specialized ship to do something, so you have to do something specialized to counter them. Nothing wrong with that. No standard gang (some inties, ewar and DPS) should be able to counter 95% of enemy gang types. Eve should be rock-paper-scissors -I like fighting them. Some people have even begun to count their kills in polycarbs/week.
I think there is nothing wrong with HACs going 3-5km/s.
I think there is nothing wrong with players investing 1Bn isk in snakes and going 8km/s.
I agree there is something wrong that practically every single HAC can go faster than a standard fitted inty.
There is nothing wrong with having speeds that makes you more or less immune to missiles and drones. These offensive weapons take minimal player skill to use (hence their popularity for mission runners), while good players can avoid the damage of turrets, simply by manual piloting (and vice versa, a good player in a turret boat can maximize his damage potential). A better solution would be to have significantly reduced damage, but not 0, for hurling missiles and drones at fast targets.
I think you should never ever nerf warfare links, as they are really a team-based module, and nerfing decreases the incentive to field one is bad. A good nano gang has a Claymore, so they go even faster. So what? Kill the Claymore first.
Nerfing all at once is bad (damps anyone?). Just start by adjusting the polycarbs to be worse than t2 nanofibers, and modify the 3 "speed" stats (mass, max velocity, agility) into 2, so more stacking penalties get applied.
Making warp scramblers useful is good (maybe do something with warpcore stabs too).
Changing a web from 90% to 60% is a 400% nerf (max speed of webbed target from 10% to 40%); nothing in the history of eve has been nerfed so hard.
Once again, I fear that the Devs are listening too much to whines, without seeing the real problem. I think they should have focussed their time solely on their last "mission statement": Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic. Please make more ways to make this possible, than simply nano'ing it up.
Cause: Skilled players should be better than defending blob in crap ships. Skilled defenders should be able to beat cookie-cutter setups.
Areo
more sensible posts like this please
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Furry Crusader
Yiffy Ventures Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:09:00 -
[1175]
My ship's top speed is 79.6m/s :(
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Cynthia Ysolde
Tritanium Workers Union
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:10:00 -
[1176]
hey guise i'm an alt lol
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Trojanman190
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:10:00 -
[1177]
Originally by: Jenny' JoJo
Originally by: Lee ChanKa Edited by: Lee ChanKa on 25/07/2008 19:58:53
Originally by: Jenny' JoJo Edited by: Jenny'' JoJo on 25/07/2008 19:56:54
Originally by: GO MaZ Edited by: GO MaZ on 25/07/2008 18:38:44
Originally by: Jenny' JoJo
ECM and ECM Bust > Remote rep.
Also remote rep without ECM is easy to beat. Only the primary or secondary gets remote repped. Just pick off people outside remote rep range etc. Remote rep ships lack damagemods etc. Very vurnerable to competent fleets. In fact, some of the top pvp alliances never use remote rep.
Oh Wait, that means you have to look at the battlefield tactically insted of firing MWD?
ITT: Someone tells shadoo about remote rep.
P.S. dear god you're stupid
Nope. Learn to adapt. Eve is about evolving. If you do not adapt, you die.
Anti-remote rep tactics are very good. Remember how you used to tell people to "use brain to beat nano"? Well, use brain to beat remote rep.
Remote rep ships have low damage, some lack even full set of turrets. Remote rep range is less than web range making RR gangs inflexible and sitting ducks if your fleet/gang uses tactics. You can ECM/Dampen them. Bump them out of rep range. You an trick them into repping primary and secondary while you switch to attacking another target.
You can attack remote repping gangs by attacking everybody. You can use HEAVY NEUTS. No Cap = no remote rep (yeah remember how you lot used to say the same stuff to nano victims?).
You can also spread fire over several targets which breaks remote rep chains easaly. Remote rep gangs are complete rubbish currently, used mostly by people who lack tactics.
yes mister smart go wiyth RR BS gang in some hostile region 20 or 30 or 50 of you then you will c what will hapend..i dont wont 2 take some alliance in mine mouth but i hawe like 3 of them who will wiped you with supercaps...they trow supercaps on mine nano-gangs not on rr bs gang..
You missed my point. RR gangs are pretty crap. Saying nano is ok just because RR is strong is a falsehood since RR is crap (and RR should be crap. Logistic ships should be repping each other - not combat ships)
Oh and any Minmatar Nerf = Happy JoJo
From what I have seen while flying in d00m RR gangs is we roll into a system with 20 t2 fit, well skilled battleships piloted by players who definitly know what the **** they are doing and we get nailed by 3 times the number of ships. We cant escape these blobs so we sit their and fight it out, in the end killing more of them than they of us but taking far more in monetary losses. we ARE trying other things than nano and they DONT WORK against the blobs. RR is a slight improvement tot he brute force mentality but is not the be all end all solution to combat. It almost always results in your opponenent waiting until his fleet is big enough to win.
Fun.
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N'olive
principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:12:00 -
[1178]
Quote: Changing a web from 90% to 60% is a 400% nerf (max speed of webbed target from 10% to 40%); nothing in the history of eve has been nerfed so hard.
For the 2 minmatars recons that's even a 1600% nerf, because they usually have 2. Target was slowed down 100 times before, soon it will be 6 times. With 3 webs the target will be 15 times slower.
_______________ Olivier C., providing fleet support since 1902 - IAC's french wing, unique member - My Eve videos |
Trojanman190
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:14:00 -
[1179]
Nerf bat is no longer a nerf bat... petition to change name to Nerf Hamm0r
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Wolf Parade
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:14:00 -
[1180]
If these changes go though, I'm ending my 2 accounts.
This is nerfing small gangs and pvp in general, thus my will to play eve.
Leave Eve's speed how it is, ignore stupid care bears.
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Cynthia Ysolde
Tritanium Workers Union
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:15:00 -
[1181]
Originally by: N'olive
Quote: Changing a web from 90% to 60% is a 400% nerf (max speed of webbed target from 10% to 40%); nothing in the history of eve has been nerfed so hard.
For the 2 minmatars recons that's even a 1600% nerf, because they usually have 2. Target was slowed down 100 times before, soon it will be 6 times. With 3 webs the target will be 15 times slower.
1600? that's almost over nine thou--
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Prez21
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:15:00 -
[1182]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Answering a few common questions:
Do WCS counter the Warp Scramblers ability to disable MWD's?
- No, not in our current implementation. We've thought about it, but as is, they don't.
Do Warp Scramblers still disable your warp drive?
- Yupp.
Will my MWD be affected by Bubbles?
- No, it won't.
Close range tracking, blasters, webbies, etc.
- Disabling the MWD + -60% speed reduction is far more effective than the old -90% webifier. This of course only applies to MWD targets. Afterburner targets will be less vulnerable to close range damage dealing ships, but that's part of the change, the verity. Smaller faster moving targets will have a better chance of evading death, but I'm sure drones on blaster boats will come in handy here.
We're also considering on removing the stacking penalty from stasis webifiers, but that really comes down to testing.
We'll keep a close eye on this when it hits SISI.
Specialized webifing & MWD ships have dated bonsues.
- We'll keep a close eye on these ships once the changes hit SISI.
Death to small roaming gangs
- Small roaming gangs existed long before polycarbon engine housings and snake sets. Sure we're reducing the maximum speed achievable but you'll still be able to go a lot faster than a standard MWD fit with various speed mods.
Are you realy that ****ing stupid? Small roaming gangs once worked when there was 20k less players on the server, all you will achieve by this nerf is destroying so many ship types and ways off fighting. Defending cyno jammed systems will be so easy you might aswell give the current sov holding alliances permament sov over there systems, you are just encouraging blobbing when you cant even handle anything bigger than 20vs20 well, i like flying fast ships, i liking flying sniping ships, i enjoy flying tanked bs but you are just ****ing over every aspect of pvp with your half arsed attempt at balancing nano speeds.
Do you guys even play this game, its hard enough to try and fight the 500 man blobs that rule 0.0 know you want to make it impossible? the only people who are happy with this change are people who only know numbers > everything else. Do i atleast get a kiss to go along with this nerf because i liked to be kissed when im being ****ed.
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Smothered Buffalo
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:15:00 -
[1183]
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth
Originally by: Smothered Buffalo
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth
Originally by: Zoraya Rouge Yes I'm an alt
why can't you post your opinions with your main?
maybe because all you have been doing this thread is trying to invalidate others' opinions by displaying how long they have played and how many losses are on a killboard?
I have no problem with people having an opinion that is different than my own; I have a problem when people try to use alts to artificially bloat the support this patch has.
oh, you think ccp will decide if this should be nerfed by counting the number of forum posts?
lawl
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Trojanman190
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:16:00 -
[1184]
Originally by: Prez21
Originally by: CCP Nozh Answering a few common questions:
Do WCS counter the Warp Scramblers ability to disable MWD's?
- No, not in our current implementation. We've thought about it, but as is, they don't.
Do Warp Scramblers still disable your warp drive?
- Yupp.
Will my MWD be affected by Bubbles?
- No, it won't.
Close range tracking, blasters, webbies, etc.
- Disabling the MWD + -60% speed reduction is far more effective than the old -90% webifier. This of course only applies to MWD targets. Afterburner targets will be less vulnerable to close range damage dealing ships, but that's part of the change, the verity. Smaller faster moving targets will have a better chance of evading death, but I'm sure drones on blaster boats will come in handy here.
We're also considering on removing the stacking penalty from stasis webifiers, but that really comes down to testing.
We'll keep a close eye on this when it hits SISI.
Specialized webifing & MWD ships have dated bonsues.
- We'll keep a close eye on these ships once the changes hit SISI.
Death to small roaming gangs
- Small roaming gangs existed long before polycarbon engine housings and snake sets. Sure we're reducing the maximum speed achievable but you'll still be able to go a lot faster than a standard MWD fit with various speed mods.
Are you realy that ****ing stupid? Small roaming gangs once worked when there was 20k less players on the server, all you will achieve by this nerf is destroying so many ship types and ways off fighting. Defending cyno jammed systems will be so easy you might aswell give the current sov holding alliances permament sov over there systems, you are just encouraging blobbing when you cant even handle anything bigger than 20vs20 well, i like flying fast ships, i liking flying sniping ships, i enjoy flying tanked bs but you are just ****ing over every aspect of pvp with your half arsed attempt at balancing nano speeds.
Do you guys even play this game, its hard enough to try and fight the 500 man blobs that rule 0.0 know you want to make it impossible? the only people who are happy with this change are people who only know numbers > everything else. Do i atleast get a kiss to go along with this nerf because i liked to be kissed when im being ****ed.
Quoting my alliance brosef for absolute truth.
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:16:00 -
[1185]
I'm glad to see a change is finally being made to an aspect of the game that is flat out broken. The arguments coming from most of the pro-nano players tend to fall under "Well I put in time training for it" and "It cost me a lot of money", both of which are nothing but pathetic attempts at defending a problem aspect of the game that let them feel skilled in ways they aren't, as skilled players will do just fine, and those who relied on overkill nanos will just die because their overkill is balanced.
I have a question for the 'My snakes cost X billion isk' crowd:
If your 3-4 billion ISK snakes let you be that overpowered, then will you help me argue that rarer, more expensive mods are made godly too? Estamel's invuln goes for an easy 10-15 billion isk.
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Lysander Kaldenn
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:16:00 -
[1186]
Further proof of the idiocy of video game democracy. Is it not bad parenting to give your child a cookie because it cries for one for days on end? Cookies are unbalanced, please nerf baking.
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LuthienTinuviel
The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:17:00 -
[1187]
nice CCP just as I was starting to get back in to the game properly you decide to **** it up royally...
Quote: That being said, this is what four of us came up with during the course of a mere five hour meeting on the current speed crisis
If this is what you came up with tbh it scares me... god forbid someone got you 4 to sit down and speak about world peace or something really important .
Seriously I know the Caldari militia are sucking guys but maybe the dev's should move any alts they have to another militia and stop making this caldari online again.
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Bassius
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:18:00 -
[1188]
Good going on ruining the game, just to help unexperienced mission runners who went to FW.
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Agmar
Game-Over The Requiem
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:18:00 -
[1189]
Not to derail the thread, but a serious question. Has a thread ever gone this many pages within 24 hours?
/me puts the over/under at 78 pages in 24 hours
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:20:00 -
[1190]
Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 25/07/2008 20:22:09
Originally by: Thorradin I'm glad to see a change is finally being made to an aspect of the game that is flat out broken. The arguments coming from most of the pro-nano players tend to fall under "Well I put in time training for it" and "It cost me a lot of money", both of which are nothing but pathetic attempts at defending a problem aspect of the game that let them feel skilled in ways they aren't, as skilled players will do just fine, and those who relied on overkill nanos will just die because their overkill is balanced.
I have a question for the 'My snakes cost X billion isk' crowd:
If your 3-4 billion ISK snakes let you be that overpowered, then will you help me argue that rarer, more expensive mods are made godly too? Estamel's invuln goes for an easy 10-15 billion isk.
Thorradin, four month old Caldari FW alt.
Originally by: Smothered Buffalo oh, you think ccp will decide if this should be nerfed by counting the number of forum posts?lawl
No, I dont, but if I give them pause and make them question why there are so many mains posting against the patch and so many alts posting support for it, then I've achieved my goal. ---
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Trojanman190
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:20:00 -
[1191]
Originally by: Agmar Not to derail the thread, but a serious question. Has a thread ever gone this many pages within 24 hours?
/me puts the over/under at 78 pages in 24 hours
Star Wars Galaxies.
There I said it. Am I the first?
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:21:00 -
[1192]
Originally by: Agmar Not to derail the thread, but a serious question. Has a thread ever gone this many pages within 24 hours?
/me puts the over/under at 78 pages in 24 hours
Yes, at the previous big ****up from CCP, you know, when the dev cheated and CCP let him get off easy while banning the whistleblower. That was more pages per day I'm sure.
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Re'quiem
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:21:00 -
[1193]
Awesome, the FW Caldari whiners got what they wanted. Press F1-F8, pwn everything in range, dock up, talk in corp how 'leet' you are 'cause you showed everyone to respect your T1 Drake/Raven fit.
So, CCP: When will I get a counter to missiles??! WHINE, WHINE, WHINE!!! I want a low-slot module that slows down the explosion velocity of missiles by 80% and a mid-slot module that causes all missiles to self-destruct when they are 1k away from my ship. WHINE WHINE WHINE
Thank you very much!
WHINE WHINE WHINE
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Matrixcvd
Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:22:00 -
[1194]
Originally by: Trojanman190
Originally by: Agmar Not to derail the thread, but a serious question. Has a thread ever gone this many pages within 24 hours?
/me puts the over/under at 78 pages in 24 hours
Star Wars Galaxies.
There I said it. Am I the first?
I believe sir you are.
Its unbelievable to think these Devs even have a remote clue how the game is played.... Blob away ret3rds, blob away.
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Euriti
Gallente SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:22:00 -
[1195]
Originally by: Smothered Buffalo
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth
Originally by: Smothered Buffalo
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth
Originally by: Zoraya Rouge Yes I'm an alt
why can't you post your opinions with your main?
maybe because all you have been doing this thread is trying to invalidate others' opinions by displaying how long they have played and how many losses are on a killboard?
I have no problem with people having an opinion that is different than my own; I have a problem when people try to use alts to artificially bloat the support this patch has.
oh, you think ccp will decide if this should be nerfed by counting the number of forum posts?
lawl
Attention! The modifications discussed below are all subject to change, based on player input and testing experience.
You are quite dumb aren't you?
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Viper ShizzIe
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:23:00 -
[1196]
Originally by: Agmar Not to derail the thread, but a serious question. Has a thread ever gone this many pages within 24 hours?
/me puts the over/under at 78 pages in 24 hours
Yeah, when other horrible decisions were made, such as removing the market forums.
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Mad Girl
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:23:00 -
[1197]
Well i play long enought and see alot of ***** in eve and this is one of those ...well no its the bigest ***** that i ever see in eve !!!
Thank you CCP for ruining EVE ...or thank you for killing medium and small gang's for benefit of large onse whit this patch come the great LAG fest !!!And they say they try to make EVE less LAG YEA THINK AGAIN !!!
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Lee ChanKa
Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:23:00 -
[1198]
no the point is ppl are tierd of nerfing and patches and thingis...
just fix damn lag focus all your ccp team 2 fix thet and 2 improve game on thet field and we will all be HAPPY MORE THEN IF YOU NERF EVRITHING like you started...
i will go then in fleet fight i promise..
if you open tread about how you will reduce lags in sistems it will be 200 pages in 6 hours and all ppl will salute to you ccp..
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:25:00 -
[1199]
My sideways-warping Obelisk, oh how I will miss it so...
Blockade runners are going to be hit hard too...
This doesn't just affect PVP ships you know...
While I do agree that nano ships have become overwhelmingly common, which is generally a bad thing, I think a better approach would be to introduce more tools for countering them rather than nerfing everything about them in general. For example, long range webbers make nano ships run for the hills, as do long range neuts.
Of course the problem really comes when you have a ship doing 4 KM/S that can web 40KMs away down to -90%. That is the primary reasoning behind the web nerf. Giving the players more options to deal with a specific tactic or setup is always a better alternative than just removing that tactic altogether. -----------------------------------------
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Agmar
Game-Over The Requiem
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:25:00 -
[1200]
Word.
I'ma just be content in my 82.4 m/s ship and watch the fireworks. Call me when the patch is released.
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