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Author	Topic
Marius Maximus Gallente Collateral Impact Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.07.30 01:03:00 - [3241] Goddamn **ing CCP. Always out with the nerf bat and this time, ed with things royally cause a bunch of carebears whined about it, Goons whined about it and you went "Ok". Just stop ing with the game. Your doing it all wrong. Very wrong. CCP, go play hide and go ** yourself. The pvp'ers in EVE need to kill some carebears to slow the whinefest.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.30 02:16:00 - [3242] Originally by: Andnowthenews If only 15% of the player population lives in 0.0 and nano is virtually a 0.0 entity then the pvpers that work in low sec or empire should not give a toss as it does not effect them. But most 0.0 pvpers do not want the nerf as it is removing a very enjoyable form of pvp. The increased viability of small ships makes me happy in the pants as a low-sec pirate tbh. Dealing with nanoships was never a problem, but I like all the other impacts the changes have on gameplay. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.30 02:35:00 - [3243] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 30/07/2008 02:42:28 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 30/07/2008 02:40:11 Originally by: Malachon Draco A non-nano gang who makes mistakes loses a pittance in isk. A nanogang who makes mistakes loses hundreds of millions per ship. Maybe it tolerates a few more mistakes, but any mistakes that cost a nanogang a ship, is vastly more expensive. Is that not a form of balance? This is nonsense; many non-nano gangs are fairly expensive. Yes, polycarbons are expensive, but hey, so are trimarks. And you're way more likely to lose the trimarked ship anyway, making your assertion about cost being the balancing factor rather silly. Also: Guerilla warfare != engaging superior forces. Guerilla warfare is about hitting inferior forces and running away before the superior force arrives. There's a difference. Seriously, I don't care about nanos specifically (although I love the new scramblers etc - all the new tools for small ships basically), but the 'don't nerf nano' brigade arguments are, well... you'd be better off if you just shut up, you know? Claiming you need a tool to engage superior forces doesn't say much in your favour. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.30 03:06:00 - [3244] Originally by: Pheleus If you have time Fraps it stick it on the forums adn see if CCP can explain it. P I'll explain it: (a) You need to fly smart, throwing large amounts of ISK doesn't do anything unless you do. Getting within overloaded webrange of a Rifter is flying stupid. I've killed/ransomed numerous nano-Stabbers (even rigged) in a freaking AB Rifter (on TQ) because they don't know shit about tracking and think that 14km is a good place to be. It isn't. The further you are, the better you track, I thought everyone understands this. (2) Drones, use them. Use them when the target is close, don't send em off chasing a frigate way off. (3) Fitting the Vagabond on SISI the same way you do on TQ is not good anymore. First off, you desperately need anti-frig/inty protection now. Fit it. The point of the changes is that now you need protection vs smaller ships. Regardless of how much ISK you've decided to spent, you won't be immune to everything unless you fit/fly smart. (4) Broken argument is broken, because Maelstorm with estamel invulns and crystals dies to a Rupture after cap charges run out if it doesn't have web/mwd/point (or now: it dies anyway unless counter-fit for killing cruisers), and it should clearly win, because estamel invulns costs billions. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Drake Arson Minmatar Infernal Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.30 03:09:00 - [3245] Congratulations. You just **ed up everything BUT the nanos. Blaster boats just got royally screwed, EVE blobs have become more of a possibility, You just pretty much DESTROYED solo warfare. great job, CCP. Before implementing this "action", Think VERY hard. Your biting the bullet here, and trust me, your gonna screw up. Honestly, *** the whiners. Nerfing the 1billion ISK implants is just OUT of the question. Alot of people complain about what they cannot get there grubby paws on. EVER think of that? Dare you Defy me?!
mishkof Caldari Finis Lumen Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.30 03:16:00 - [3246] Originally by: FlameGlow Originally by: Jimmy 4chan Oh also, leave MWDs alone, you're changing the 1 mod that is more crucial to most 0.0 setups than anything else. If you want us to use afterburners, boost them. Don't nerf the alternatives just because the afterburner sucks. Isn't that exactly why they want to change it? lol, exactly. These are the types that have been catered to since the release of rigs. Min Maxing wow players. I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response. []hate me []troll me []smack me
Atrei Capital	Posted - 2008.07.30 03:31:00 - [3247] I've actually tried a "mixed" speed/tank setup to some decent effect. Even the nanoships now take damage from incoming damage, but the damage is still lower than the stationary equivalent. Since 3 nanofibers is now enough for a full "speed" setup, more slots are freed up. It is no longer possible to avoid 100% of damage through nano. But when an interceptor with a small shield booster can "tank" a sleipnir (even though the Sleipnir is occasionally hitting due to reduced speed).. well, you get the idea. If you fit a bit of tank (resists + reps / boosters), and mitigate 50% of incoming damage through speed... well, you get the idea. The problem is, people are still trying for a 100% nano tank, with no way to deal with the trickle of damage that now gets through to them.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.07.30 04:52:00 - [3248] Originally by: Atrei Capital I've actually tried a "mixed" speed/tank setup to some decent effect. Even the nanoships now take damage from incoming damage, but the damage is still lower than the stationary equivalent. Since 3 nanofibers is now enough for a full "speed" setup, more slots are freed up. It is no longer possible to avoid 100% of damage through nano. But when an interceptor with a small shield booster can "tank" a sleipnir (even though the Sleipnir is occasionally hitting due to reduced speed).. well, you get the idea. If you fit a bit of tank (resists + reps / boosters), and mitigate 50% of incoming damage through speed... well, you get the idea. The problem is, people are still trying for a 100% nano tank, with no way to deal with the trickle of damage that now gets through to them. right, but most ships don't have the cap to pull that off. most vaga fits can't even permarun a mwd, not to even try to add a shield booster/armor rep in there
cargo2000 Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.30 06:19:00 - [3249] I think the changes in the proposition might be to drastic and miss the mark. I am going to suggest increasing the deceleration effects of a web, and the mwd being deactivated (help the nuet defense). Also buff the rapier and huginn sig res. Maybe toy with the stacking of pirate implants and gang bennies. But in all honesty nano's aren't over powered, how to kill them has been well covered in this thread and many others.
Damned Force Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.07.30 06:54:00 - [3250] Originally by: Tekki Sandan CCP should stop trying to NERF things and just BOOST other things. NO TO THE NERF YES TO THE BOOST. 100% agree Not the 4-5km/sec hacs need a nerf, not the ceptors they was ok. If devs simply would boost heavy prec missiles and other t2 ammo a bit that would be maybe a better solution

Damned Force Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.07.30 06:55:00 - [3251] Originally by: FlameGlow Originally by: Jimmy 4chan Oh also, leave MWDs alone, you're changing the 1 mod that is more crucial to most 0.0 setups than anything else. If you want us to use afterburners, boost them. Don't nerf the alternatives just because the afterburner sucks. Isn't that exactly why they want to change it? Sure but if they change, they should take away bubbles or reduce tem to 1-2km and remove cynojammers from the game too
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.07.30 07:01:00 - [3252] As mentioned in the dev blog Mobile Warp Disruptor (bubble) ranges have been changed on SiSi: Small I - 4 => 5 Small II - 6 => 7 Medium I - 12 => 11 Medium II - 18 => 17 Large I - 36 => 26 Large II - 54 => 40 Both dictor bubbles remain the same.
RazorCRO Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.07.30 07:15:00 - [3253] Jezus christ....124 pages... Well...i have only 1 thing i would like to "point" at which is probably written somewher ein this post, but dont blame me if i dont go trough 124 pages of crying and see if it's really there... Will Minmatar recons get web bonus (not range, but strength) so they can stop targets as they used to or they are all screwed up? And no, i am not Minmatar pilot, i'm good ol 100% caldari....i just think that it's way too much blow for Minnie recons.
McDonALTs	Posted - 2008.07.30 07:47:00 - [3254] Originally by: Nyphur I missed this thread for the past 5 days. Just read through the devblog and I'm left wondering how exactly these changes will fix the actual problem. I see a bunch of relatively minor balance tweaks (good ones, but still minor ones) and no solutions for issues like stasis web agility modification. Another thing that troubles me is that the graphs are incorrect. If they were meant to accurately portray the maximum obtainable speed on ships, the maximums are very much short of real values. They also ignore racial variations of ships like the Vagabond. However, I will reserve judgement for now. If all of these minor tweaks add up to a complete solution, I'll be impressed. Its Rock Paper Scissors now. AB> Scram > MWD > AB Also, the anti-blob tactics will return since due to slower speed, people can use distance as a combat tool again. Since nano, distance became mostly irrelevant since in 10 seconds, the enemy would be all over you no matter how hard you try. This forced people to blob up insted of using anti-blob tactics.
Helfix Caldari Rage For Order Nihil-Obstat	Posted - 2008.07.30 07:49:00 - [3255] Edited by: Helfix on 30/07/2008 07:50:32 Edited by: Helfix on 30/07/2008 07:50:11 So let me guess this correctly, 1). We got 1% of EvE'S UBER rich who can afford Snakes,faction pimp and t2 rigs going ohh IDK 18k/s(ceptors (Edna <3 my crow too)). Then we go to presume the entire EvE population can afford said mods worth 6+ bill. Check 2). We sit at a table for a Pimp 5 hrs (while being high + sippin some cool booze) and discuss why the entire EvE nano-population is going at these crazy speeds. Then it hits us why don't we nerf everything to hell n back lulz and umm change a lot of dynamics all at once. Check 3). Before we go to Forumz lets do some EFT NUmbas CHECK 4). We are on forums now... Let's post our uber 5 hour solution to teh EvE PvP people.. while we stroke our e-peens at how uber our ideas are. Ok sarcasm away and all... If nerf goes threw you just encouraged even more blobbing. You said you were against blobbing but even your FW encourages Blobs. You can't go into low-sec and not run into a 60 man camp. If your with traditional tank/gank gangs your DEAD. Your slow and unable to run. Basically you just suicide d your small 5-10 man gang. Let's not even talk about 0.0, you go into a enemy turf with said 5-10 man gang with slow ships, we all know whats gonna happen don't we 0.0 residents? Nano's were the only way for small corps/alliances/gangs to engage in combat and you wish to take it away. The only thing I can say about the people who are for the nerf is this. You probably are the carebears who do nothing but rat/mine (not saying that is wrong I rat too :D) and are forced to defend against the nanos when they come to mess up your perfect mining/ratting day. What do you do?? You throw ill-matched ships vs. your foes and are stuck into believing they are invincible because your Ion Blaster Mega can't seem to bbq em rite? Instead of going "Hey guys we need a couple neut boats/some snipers/and tacklers", But I suppose it's easier to go to eve-o and post a bunch of threads of how over-powered nano's are instead of spending the time necessary to fend off said nanos or pop em. Now don't go all emo on me and start trolling me. I have been there and still am defending against said nanos and doing my nano-***oting at the same time. It takes tactics/co-ordination/correct ships for the job to defeat nanos. But we all noe if our 1 ship can't insta bbq every other ship then those other ships must be using hax and are borked amirite? -Helfix
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.07.30 07:50:00 - [3256] Minmatar Recons are fine, IMHO. Worse off than on TQ, but balanced on SiSi. Let's take a typical Stiletto. 4.7km/s with MWD, 714 m/s without. Dual web from a Rapier will bring it to 921m/s. Close to what an Arazu will do (714m/s), from 34km instead of 18km. Also, a Rapier's effect stacks - put another web on the target, and it's down to 606 m/s. So basically, a dual web right now is an 80% web, a scram is an 85% web, the web also works on ABing targets (or non-speed-modded) targets, while the scram only works on MWDing targets. Nice balance there. Add to this that larger ships have serious troubles hitting smaller ships in close range, and they usually do not have the mid slots to spare to fit dual web themselves. A support ship that can just apply a dual web from 34km is an enormous help there. So no, Rapiers and Huginns aren't useless now. They don't turn everything into an immobile object anymore, but they are still very effective in the new environment. Other Minmatar ships need more help :-(
Cutesmile	Posted - 2008.07.30 08:08:00 - [3257] Edited by: Cutesmile on 30/07/2008 08:13:20 Originally by: Arkady Sadik Minmatar Recons are fine, IMHO. Worse off than on TQ, but balanced on SiSi. Let's take a typical Stiletto. 4.7km/s with MWD, 714 m/s without. Dual web from a Rapier will bring it to 921m/s. Close to what an Arazu will do (714m/s), from 34km instead of 18km. Also, a Rapier's effect stacks - put another web on the target, and it's down to 606 m/s. So basically, a dual web right now is an 80% web, a scram is an 85% web, the web also works on ABing targets (or non-speed-modded) targets, while the scram only works on MWDing targets. Nice balance there. Add to this that larger ships have serious troubles hitting smaller ships in close range, and they usually do not have the mid slots to spare to fit dual web themselves. A support ship that can just apply a dual web from 34km is an enormous help there. So no, Rapiers and Huginns aren't useless now. They don't turn everything into an immobile object anymore, but they are still very effective in the new environment. Other Minmatar ships need more help :-( Bullsh*t. Use 3 web use more scrambler and disruptor, mwd or ab too. LOL How many med slot need for them ? Oh u are a shield tanker u cant use lot of med slots modul or your tank will to ruin. Alright we need more man for catch the enemy need more a rapier and arazu too. WE need more blobers and the PvP will be working fine. LOL If u are alone in system with a rapier and u lost your drones elsewhere a simple ceptor will kill you, because 3 webs not enough for slowing and your artys cant hit him ??? What a horrible idea. Just say it more, nice balance there.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.30 08:14:00 - [3258] Originally by: Cutesmile Bullsht. Use 3 web use more scrambler and disruptor too. LOL How many med slot need for them ? Oh u are a shield tanker u cant use lot of med slots modul or your tank will to ruin. Newsflash: Rapiers have always used at least two webs and often a point, or three webs for gang setups. Learn your ship fittings. Originally by:* Cutesmile Alright we need more man for catch the enemy need more a rapier and arazu too. WE need more blobers and the PvP will be working fine. LOL If u are alone in system with a rapier and u lost your drones elsewhere a simple ceptor will kill you, because 3 webs not enough for slowing and your artys cant hit him ??? What a horrible idea. Just say it more, nice balance there. You won't die to a lone interceptor as long as you're faster then him (and you will with him being triple webbed), even without drones; but don't you think you should die to a interceptor if you forgot anti-frig weapons and are only totting arties? It means you're brining totally wrong weapons for the job. That's called balance. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Lily Cole	Posted - 2008.07.30 08:18:00 - [3259] What's with that 7.5km scram thing anyway? 7.5km scrams have got nothing to do with nanoboats in the same way that 9km webs don't. It seems that this change is the blasterboat nerf being slipped in under the carpet with the nanonerf.
Cutesmile	Posted - 2008.07.30 08:29:00 - [3260] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Cutesmile Bullsht. Use 3 web use more scrambler and disruptor too. LOL How many med slot need for them ? Oh u are a shield tanker u cant use lot of med slots modul or your tank will to ruin. Newsflash: Rapiers have always used at least two webs and often a point, or three webs for gang setups. Learn your ship fittings. Originally by:* Cutesmile Alright we need more man for catch the enemy need more a rapier and arazu too. WE need more blobers and the PvP will be working fine. LOL If u are alone in system with a rapier and u lost your drones elsewhere a simple ceptor will kill you, because 3 webs not enough for slowing and your artys cant hit him ??? What a horrible idea. Just say it more, nice balance there. You won't die to a lone interceptor as long as you're faster then him (and you will with him being triple webbed), even without drones; but don't you think you should die to a interceptor if you forgot anti-frig weapons and are only totting arties? It means you're brining totally wrong weapons for the job. That's called balance. Man u dont want to say me, how can fitting a rapier. mwd,disruptor two web and two shield extender this is a conventional rapier fitt. If u use more 1 web and more 1 scrambler cant use shield extenders and ur ship not have tank. You will faster like a ceptor, if the ceptor use web ? Try it and die fast when he jump to you short range or catch u at gate.

Lysit Kaune Minmatar Phoenix Division	Posted - 2008.07.30 08:39:00 - [3261] Originally by: Cutesmile Man u dont want to say me, how can fitting a rapier. mwd,disruptor two web and two shield extender this is a conventional rapier fitt. If u use more 1 web and more 1 scrambler cant use shield extenders and ur ship not have tank. You will faster like a ceptor, if the ceptor use web ? Try it and die fast when he jump to you short range or catch u at gate. Or watch him die as he is still webbed and dies to precision heavies, like most sane people would take from now on. Also just because your rapier is more expensive then a ceptor it doesn't entitle you to win automatically. As for not having a tank for taking the extra web and scram, heres a tip, don't take them like everyone else, and have a bit of tank.
Trigos Trilobi X-Fire	Posted - 2008.07.30 08:54:00 - [3262] I'm not so sure I buy the "too many changes at once"-argument at all. In my opinion it looks like all the changes are aiming at the same end result, and don't work very well without each other. Namely, speedtanking should we viable at all ranges, but it should not be a 100% damage mitigation, and nanoed ships should have to commit more. The web/scram changes boost speedtanking <13km, and the overall speed reduction makes speed ships more vulnerable beyond that, and a bit easier to catch. First impressions are that the changes reach their goal pretty decently, but there's quite probably a lot of changes to be made afterwards to balance the game properly around the new combat dynamics. I would've personally probably even went as low as 40-50% webs on non-specced ships, to be more in line with other ew, but even the 60% web is a lot healthier foundation to build on than the previous 90%. Also slight AB effect increase might be in order, and probably some tweaks for missile explosion radiuses and velocities, maybe even change from linear sig vs expl radius comparison to a nonlinear formula that reduces the damage more if you're a lot smaller. I somewhat worry about the blobbage-factor aswell, but I think keeping one broken mechanic because other mechanics possibly are broken aswell is bogus, and in any case these changes have the potential to make combat a lot more interesting than now, even if there quite probably will be a lot of tweaking required to various other aspects of the game later.
McDonALTs	Posted - 2008.07.30 09:05:00 - [3263] Originally by: Cutesmile If u are alone in system with a rapier and u lost your drones elsewhere a simple ceptor will kill you, because 3 webs not enough for slowing and your artys cant hit him ??? What a horrible idea. Just say it more, nice balance there. Hey, if you are alone in a t2 Fitted Rigged up Sniper battleship and lost your drones, a Cepter will kill you as well. Should we nerf cepters then?
dojocan81	Posted - 2008.07.30 09:06:00 - [3264] wtb rigs which reduce the activation delay on MWD's thx also, nice changes at all ... looking forward
Cutesmile	Posted - 2008.07.30 09:17:00 - [3265] Edited by: Cutesmile on 30/07/2008 09:19:41 Originally by: McDonALTs Originally by: Cutesmile If u are alone in system with a rapier and u lost your drones elsewhere a simple ceptor will kill you, because 3 webs not enough for slowing and your artys cant hit him ??? What a horrible idea. Just say it more, nice balance there. Hey, if you are alone in a t2 Fitted Rigged up Sniper battleship and lost your drones, a Cepter will kill you as well. Should we nerf cepters then? Realy ? Sry man but smart BS pilots use neuts on high slot against the ceptors and 1 dampener in med slots against ceptor targeting range and against the falcons. If a ceptor not have cap they cant use disruptor and u can jump.
Barsexual	Posted - 2008.07.30 09:26:00 - [3266] Edited by: Barsexual on 30/07/2008 09:26:41 Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Andnowthenews If only 15% of the player population lives in 0.0 and nano is virtually a 0.0 entity then the pvpers that work in low sec or empire should not give a toss as it does not effect them. But most 0.0 pvpers do not want the nerf as it is removing a very enjoyable form of pvp. The increased viability of small ships makes me happy in the pants as a low-sec pirate tbh. Dealing with nanoships was never a problem, but I like all the other impacts the changes have on gameplay. Yeah too bad you and your corp camp in Onatoh almost 24/7 in BS and BC.
Pushtan Ministry of Destruction Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.30 09:52:00 - [3267] Originally by: Dez Affinity Originally by: Pushtan oh god, 4chan tit on board...not suprising seeing as youre tri...oh wait, was that a personal attack? it was indeed, now Shut. The Hell. Up with the personal/killboard stats and prepare to realise: NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK/SAY/DO YOU WONT SURVIVE THIS UNLESS YOU ADAPT LITTLE MAN. K, now, once again, back the ****ing subject at hand...how hard is it... End of the little 'war' you have on me with words. dipshit I've already adapted to nanos, that's why I can kill them and you can't. You refuse to use the ways of killing nanos that already exists and DEMAND that CCP adapt the game for you instead of you actually learning how to play the game. I can and have, not had chance in this alliance/corp. thats why you dotn see it. Once again ''you cant adapt to us'' is thrown around (by TRI LMAO) and yet, once this comes in, youre gonna be even bigger whiners than the carebears you told not to... Ok, so youve adapted, well done - heres your +1 internets. Now gtfo the arguement of 'you cant play the game' cus you looked up my stats on the kb, and wait...look! i dont HAVE to use nano ships :O i havent ONCE said CCP should get rid of Nano ships, but they are overpowered. So, in comes the nerf. Goody. Maybe your alliance will finally realise its time to die off.
Sylthi Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic	Posted - 2008.07.30 09:53:00 - [3268] Edited by: Sylthi on 30/07/2008 09:53:43 Well, here's one for the "its so sad you have to laugh or you'll cry yourself to death" pile. With the new changes, as is, on SiSi, (assuming max skills) you can outrun an unfitted Raven in a Fenrir. Check it out. Words fail. You really have to see this one to believe it. And CCP DOESN'T see a problem with this???!! If Nozh REALLY doesn't see a problem with this situation all hope is finally lost for the future of this game. * *
Miss Rumpelstilzchen Minmatar Black Horizon Ltd	Posted - 2008.07.30 10:08:00 - [3269] hmm was right now sitting on the toilette, ans thing about Mwd and 2p scram... so a Warp Disruptor are effectiv on the WarpDrive, and the Warp scrammler are effective on the WarpDrive and MwD, so... if you fitt a WCS (warp core stab) you can run the mwd but don`t warp away... and so for the Blockadrunners, they are not effectiv on the Warpscrammler. well lets hope CCP have the same view as me :) ps.: wtb Warp Core Stab Rig
Pushtan Ministry of Destruction Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.30 11:01:00 - [3270] Originally by: Prez21 You tried to make a point that you can solo just as effectively in non nano ships as you can in nano ships, the killboard says you suck at pvp and have no clue what your talking about and your only response is shut the hell up and adapt, your just aclueless troll who is clutching to this patch in hopes it will allow you to actualy compete in pvp. oh god lol, tri....another one...you guys must REALLY be shitting bricks with this patch....wether im 1337 pvping solo or with a gang, it doesnt matter, im doing it and im ENJOYING IT...without a nanoship OH LAWD THE LOLZ i have so much fun without them, and im gonna have even more fun seeing you idiots struggle without them. kbai

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