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Author	Topic
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.09 18:40:00 - [3961] Originally by: Doctor Mabuse Originally by: Develon Hitaki So what is your suggestion on how to prevent the blasterboats from becoming totally obselete? And what about the huggin's role? Oh I don't know, perhaps you could bring something small and tanked to turn off your targets MWD and web him, and AF or two maybe, and then close to deal some major DPS. You know, brings some friends. Its kinda like the nanosaurs telling us we had to bring a rapier, or had to use neuts or had to fit all our ships specifically and have a certain gang composition to take them on with one of the many 'apparent' counters. At last we have some different options, you could possibly try some... You have obviously put some thought into this and its nice to see somebody who is pro this nerf thinking instead of spouting the usual "i love your nano tears " crap. Unfortunately any ship approaching a hostile gang with or without a afterburner or even a mwd will be dust long before it gets into range to be able to turn off a mwd.
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.09 18:40:00 - [3962] Originally by: Doctor Mabuse Originally by: Develon Hitaki So what is your suggestion on how to prevent the blasterboats from becoming totally obselete? And what about the huggin's role? Oh I don't know, perhaps you could bring something small and tanked to turn off your targets MWD and web him, and AF or two maybe, and then close to deal some major DPS. You know, brings some friends. Its kinda like the nanosaurs telling us we had to bring a rapier, or had to use neuts or had to fit all our ships specifically and have a certain gang composition to take them on with one of the many 'apparent' counters. At last we have some different options, you could possibly try some... You have obviously put some thought into this and its nice to see somebody who is pro this nerf thinking instead of spouting the usual "i love your nano tears " crap. Unfortunately any ship approaching a hostile gang with or without a afterburner or even a mwd will be dust long before it gets into range to be able to turn off a mwd.
Vrinimous	Posted - 2008.08.09 20:25:00 - [3963] Originally by: marakor .... Unfortunately any ship approaching a hostile gang with or without a afterburner or even a mwd will be dust long before it gets into range to be able to turn off a mwd. Perhaps fit both an ab and an mwd? Multiple fitting options for midslots are now available. Roll up, roll up, get your new and exciting variations here! Alternatively, get someone in your fleet to web and disrupt them, and then warp to your mate, and splinter 'em. Finally, the best option, stay docked.
Vrinimous	Posted - 2008.08.09 20:25:00 - [3964] Originally by: marakor .... Unfortunately any ship approaching a hostile gang with or without a afterburner or even a mwd will be dust long before it gets into range to be able to turn off a mwd. Perhaps fit both an ab and an mwd? Multiple fitting options for midslots are now available. Roll up, roll up, get your new and exciting variations here! Alternatively, get someone in your fleet to web and disrupt them, and then warp to your mate, and splinter 'em. Finally, the best option, stay docked.
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.09 21:58:00 - [3965] Originally by: Vrinimous Originally by: marakor .... Unfortunately any ship approaching a hostile gang with or without a afterburner or even a mwd will be dust long before it gets into range to be able to turn off a mwd. Perhaps fit both an ab and an mwd? Multiple fitting options for midslots are now available. Roll up, roll up, get your new and exciting variations here! Alternatively, get someone in your fleet to web and disrupt them, and then warp to your mate, and splinter 'em. Finally, the best option, stay docked. Those are great suggestions thank you, now say its a moderately sized gang of say 20-30 not a big fleet but a good sized gang. Now id be interested to know if you had say a similar gang how you would web, disrupt and so on each or most of those ships all at the same time so they cannot shoot your tacklers?. And how does having both a mwd and a afterburner fitted help?. I mean no disrespect at all but i have some experience at pvp and i have never seen any gang able to disrupt, web whatever 30 ships simultaneously with 60+ ships let alone the same number. Do not get me wrong your ideas may seem good to you or look good on paper but the reality is that they are impractical and rely on the opposing gang not shooting back, moving or doing anything but letting you shoot them tbh.
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.09 21:58:00 - [3966] Edited by: marakor on 09/08/2008 23:58:10 Originally by: Vrinimous Originally by: marakor .... Unfortunately any ship approaching a hostile gang with or without a afterburner or even a mwd will be dust long before it gets into range to be able to turn off a mwd. Perhaps fit both an ab and an mwd? Multiple fitting options for midslots are now available. Roll up, roll up, get your new and exciting variations here! Alternatively, get someone in your fleet to web and disrupt them, and then warp to your mate, and splinter 'em. Finally, the best option, stay docked. Those are great suggestions thank you, now say its a moderately sized gang of say 20-30 not a big fleet but a good sized gang. Now id be interested to know if you had say a similar gang how you would web, disrupt and so on each or most of those ships all at the same time so they cannot shoot your tacklers?. And how does having both a mwd and a afterburner fitted help?. I mean no disrespect at all but i have some experience at pvp and i have never seen any gang able to disrupt, web whatever 30 ships simultaneously with 60+ ships let alone the same number. Do not get me wrong your ideas may seem good to you or look good on paper but the reality is that they are impractical and rely on the opposing gang not shooting back, moving or doing anything but letting you shoot them tbh. And with a 30 vs 30 gang or even less all you need is good alpha and dps to pop stuff tackle is not needed. As ppl have already said this speed nerf allows ppl to kill without tackling as long as they have dps and numbers while nano forced ppl to work as a team and tackle to kill even if ppl had a blob.
BtodaC	Posted - 2008.08.10 01:18:00 - [3967] "The course that should be taken, one that is both fair to non-nano ships and speed-demons alike is to introduce new items capable of combating these ships." This statement makes sense. Nerfing is a very lazy way of balancing a game. Think of it as an arms race; people win by going fast so add more ability to combat their speed. These changes look like a blob boost and a very serious nerf for small gangs and i for one loathe laggy blob fights. I concede that doing over 6km/s is excessive but if these changes result in the nano tactic being unviable then the only tactic that remains is ever larger bs fleets. How will this make fights more 'unpredictable'?
BtodaC Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.08.10 01:18:00 - [3968] "The course that should be taken, one that is both fair to non-nano ships and speed-demons alike is to introduce new items capable of combating these ships." This statement makes sense. Nerfing is a very lazy way of balancing a game. Think of it as an arms race; people win by going fast so add more ability to combat their speed. These changes look like a blob boost and a very serious nerf for small gangs and i for one loathe laggy blob fights. I concede that doing over 6km/s is excessive but if these changes result in the nano tactic being unviable then the only tactic that remains is ever larger bs fleets. How will this make fights more 'unpredictable'?
Vrinimous	Posted - 2008.08.10 07:01:00 - [3969] Originally by: marakor Those are great suggestions thank you, now say its a moderately sized gang of say 20-30 not a big fleet but a good sized gang. Now id be interested to know if you had say a similar gang how you would web, disrupt and so on each or most of those ships all at the same time so they cannot shoot your tacklers?. I am guilty of a certain light-heartedness - we will all survive the changes, and new methodologies will appear. The important thing to remember is that it is the playing field that will change. All players have the ability to be affected to the same degree - it's just that some players have specialised more than others, and so will feel the changes more. That's evolution in action, for you. Some tacklers will always die in an engagement, that's the way it should be, no-one should be able to attack with impunity. Originally by: marakor And how does having both a mwd and a afterburner fitted help?. The mwd gets you close (as now), the ab helps you continue some speed after an mwd shutdown, maintains your transversal (if you like) and helps keep your tackler (or whatever) alive. It only helps, mind you. My comment was just a thought on how else, perhaps, to fit mid-slots. Originally by: marakor .... And with a 30 vs 30 gang or even less all you need is good alpha and dps to pop stuff tackle is not needed. That has always been the case. A gang with their preferred range, and with sufficient alpha, can pop members of a gang who are not at their preferred range now. I don't really see any change there. Originally by: marakor As ppl have already said this speed nerf allows ppl to kill without tackling as long as they have dps and numbers while nano forced ppl to work as a team and tackle to kill even if ppl had a blob. The same applies here, as in my previous comment. It's just a change of paradigm, that's all. If you want to work together, work together. A game mechanic, such as nano, should not be the only reason people fly together.
Vrinimous	Posted - 2008.08.10 07:01:00 - [3970] Edited by: Vrinimous on 10/08/2008 07:08:03 Originally by: marakor Those are great suggestions thank you, now say its a moderately sized gang of say 20-30 not a big fleet but a good sized gang. Now id be interested to know if you had say a similar gang how you would web, disrupt and so on each or most of those ships all at the same time so they cannot shoot your tacklers?. I am guilty of a certain light-heartedness - we will all survive the changes, and new methodologies will appear. The important thing to remember is that it is the playing field that will change. All players have the ability to be affected to the same degree - it's just that some players have specialised more than others, and so will feel the changes more. That's evolution in action, for you. Some tacklers will always die in an engagement, that's the way it should be, no-one should be able to attack with impunity. Originally by: marakor And how does having both a mwd and a afterburner fitted help?. The mwd gets you close (as now), the ab helps you continue some speed after an mwd shutdown, maintains your transversal (if you like) and helps keep your tackler (or whatever) alive. It only helps, mind you. My comment was just a thought on how else, perhaps, to fit mid-slots. Originally by: marakor .... And with a 30 vs 30 gang or even less all you need is good alpha and dps to pop stuff tackle is not needed. That has always been the case. A gang with their preferred range, and with sufficient alpha, can pop members of a gang who are not at their preferred range now. I don't really see any change there. Originally by: marakor As ppl have already said this speed nerf allows ppl to kill without tackling as long as they have dps and numbers while nano forced ppl to work as a team and tackle to kill even if ppl had a blob. The same applies here, as in my previous comment. It's just a change of paradigm, that's all. If you want to work together, work together. A game mechanic, such as nano, should not be the only reason people fly together.

marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.10 09:04:00 - [3971] Edited by: marakor on 10/08/2008 09:45:32 Originally by: Vrinimous Some tacklers will always die in an engagement, that's the way it should be, no-one should be able to attack with impunity. Do you not find it a paradox that CCP on one hand say they need to add and change modules so ppl can be tackled and thus killed. Then change the game so they do not need to be tackled at all?. Originally by: Vrinimous The mwd gets you close (as now), the ab helps you continue some speed after an mwd shutdown, maintains your transversal (if you like) and helps keep your tackler (or whatever) alive. It only helps, mind you. My comment was just a thought on how else, perhaps, to fit mid-slots. It does'nt work or help in the least its worthless to fit both in a gang fight. You should really get on the test server and try it cos after losing tackler after tackler you may understand the problem.
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.10 09:04:00 - [3972] Edited by: marakor on 10/08/2008 09:45:32 Originally by: Vrinimous Some tacklers will always die in an engagement, that's the way it should be, no-one should be able to attack with impunity. Do you not find it a paradox that CCP on one hand say they need to add and change modules so ppl can be tackled and thus killed. Then change the game so they do not need to be tackled at all?. Originally by: Vrinimous The mwd gets you close (as now), the ab helps you continue some speed after an mwd shutdown, maintains your transversal (if you like) and helps keep your tackler (or whatever) alive. It only helps, mind you. My comment was just a thought on how else, perhaps, to fit mid-slots. It does'nt work or help in the least its worthless to fit both in a gang fight. You should really get on the test server and try it cos after losing tackler after tackler you may understand the problem.
Suitonia Gallente interimo	Posted - 2008.08.10 10:11:00 - [3973] Originally by: Stab Wounds [Ishtar, shield] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Dark Blood Small Nosferatu [empty high slot] Core Defence Field Purger II Core Defence Field Purger II Ogre II x5 DPS: 634 Defense: 904 HACs look fine to me after speed nerf. you have to use unconventional pvp fits.
Suitonia Gallente interimo	Posted - 2008.08.10 10:11:00 - [3974] Originally by: Stab Wounds [Ishtar, shield] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Dark Blood Small Nosferatu [empty high slot] Core Defence Field Purger II Core Defence Field Purger II Ogre II x5 DPS: 634 Defense: 904 HACs look fine to me after speed nerf. you have to use unconventional pvp fits.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.10 11:04:00 - [3975] What was it nano fans were fond of saying? "Adapt or die"? Yep, thats the one. A Battleship being able to out-pace a Frigate is and always will be ridiculous, and evidence of unintended game mechanics. Anyone who didn't see this fix coming must have been living in a dream world. Just because it was your favourite ship setup does not mean it was good for the game. ------ Originally by: Micheal Dietrich You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.10 11:04:00 - [3976] What was it nano fans were fond of saying? "Adapt or die"? Yep, thats the one. A Battleship being able to out-pace a Frigate is and always will be ridiculous, and evidence of unintended game mechanics. Anyone who didn't see this fix coming must have been living in a dream world. Just because it was your favourite ship setup does not mean it was good for the game. ------ Originally by: Micheal Dietrich You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.10 12:52:00 - [3977] Edited by: marakor on 10/08/2008 12:54:22 Originally by: Patch86 What was it nano fans were fond of saying? "Adapt or die"? Yep, thats the one. A Battleship being able to out-pace a Frigate is and always will be ridiculous, and evidence of unintended game mechanics. Anyone who didn't see this fix coming must have been living in a dream world. Just because it was your favorite ship setup does not mean it was good for the game. As per usual with ppl supporting this nerf you are fixating on a utterly rare and extreme fit to give credit to unneeded changes. Try to find a group of anti-nerf ppl who care about the extreme fits your talking about bud it will be very hard to find even one as most do not give a toss or care about the 30kms fits or the multi multi billion isk fit BS that go faster than basically fitted frigs. This nerf has changed gang fights from "tackle it to kill it" to "alpha it to kill it", now that is breaking the game and removing the need for skill and team work bud.
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.10 12:52:00 - [3978] Edited by: marakor on 10/08/2008 13:24:46 Originally by: Patch86 What was it nano fans were fond of saying? "Adapt or die"? Yep, thats the one. A Battleship being able to out-pace a Frigate is and always will be ridiculous, and evidence of unintended game mechanics. Anyone who didn't see this fix coming must have been living in a dream world. Just because it was your favorite ship setup does not mean it was good for the game. As per usual with ppl supporting this nerf you are fixating on a utterly rare and extreme fit to give credit to unneeded changes. Try to find a group of anti-nerf ppl who care about the extreme fits your talking about bud it will be very hard to find even one as most do not give a toss or care about the 30kms fits or the multi multi billion isk fit BS that go faster than basically fitted frigs. This nerf has changed gang fights from "tackle it to kill it" to "alpha it to kill it", now that is called breaking the game and removing the need for skill and team work bud.
Abrynn Minmatar CCCP INC	Posted - 2008.08.10 18:36:00 - [3979] Edited by: Abrynn on 10/08/2008 18:38:40 Originally by: Patch86 What was it nano fans were fond of saying? "Adapt or die"? Yep, thats the one. A Battleship being able to out-pace a Frigate is and always will be ridiculous, and evidence of unintended game mechanics. Anyone who didn't see this fix coming must have been living in a dream world. Just because it was your favourite ship setup does not mean it was good for the game. you correct that is stupid but this nerf is also stupid....i agree a speed nerf is needed but not like this this nerfs alot of game mechanics not just one or 2 and a whole race...instead of all this crazy crap this Dev who has prolly never played the game wants to do (/me points to carrier nerf proposal) it simply takes a speed cap thats it your ship cant go no faster than whatever speed it should go due to mass .... no way should a BS be able to catch anything that isnt a BS totally agreed....
Abrynn Minmatar CCCP INC	Posted - 2008.08.10 18:36:00 - [3980] Edited by: Abrynn on 10/08/2008 18:38:40 Originally by: Patch86 What was it nano fans were fond of saying? "Adapt or die"? Yep, thats the one. A Battleship being able to out-pace a Frigate is and always will be ridiculous, and evidence of unintended game mechanics. Anyone who didn't see this fix coming must have been living in a dream world. Just because it was your favourite ship setup does not mean it was good for the game. you correct that is stupid but this nerf is also stupid....i agree a speed nerf is needed but not like this this nerfs alot of game mechanics not just one or 2 and a whole race...instead of all this crazy crap this Dev who has prolly never played the game wants to do (/me points to carrier nerf proposal) it simply takes a speed cap thats it your ship cant go no faster than whatever speed it should go due to mass .... no way should a BS be able to catch anything that isnt a BS totally agreed....

Abrynn Minmatar CCCP INC	Posted - 2008.08.10 18:44:00 - [3981] i just wanted to point this out this is the actual discription of the vaga ingame Hull: Stabber Class Role: Heavy Assault Ship The fastest cruiser invented to date, this vessel is ideal for hit-and-run ops where both speed and firepower are required. Its on-board power core may not be strong enough to handle some of the larger weapons out there, but when it comes to guerilla work, the Vagabond can't be beat. Developer: Thukker Mix Improving on the original Stabber design, Thukker Mix created the Vagabond as a cruiser-sized skirmish vessel equally suited to defending mobile installations and executing lightning strikes at their enemies. Honoring their tradition of building the fastest vessels to ply the spacelanes, they count the Vagabond as one of their crowning achievements. Minmatar Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire and 5% bonus to max velocity per level Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff range and 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage per level notice the bonus to SPEED!!!!! CCP get your heads out your ass.............
Abrynn Minmatar CCCP INC	Posted - 2008.08.10 18:44:00 - [3982] i just wanted to point this out this is the actual discription of the vaga ingame Hull: Stabber Class Role: Heavy Assault Ship The fastest cruiser invented to date, this vessel is ideal for hit-and-run ops where both speed and firepower are required. Its on-board power core may not be strong enough to handle some of the larger weapons out there, but when it comes to guerilla work, the Vagabond can't be beat. Developer: Thukker Mix Improving on the original Stabber design, Thukker Mix created the Vagabond as a cruiser-sized skirmish vessel equally suited to defending mobile installations and executing lightning strikes at their enemies. Honoring their tradition of building the fastest vessels to ply the spacelanes, they count the Vagabond as one of their crowning achievements. Minmatar Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire and 5% bonus to max velocity per level Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff range and 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage per level notice the bonus to SPEED!!!!! CCP get your heads out your ass.............
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.08.10 23:24:00 - [3983] It only specifies that it is "The fastest cruiser". How fast does being "the fastest cruiser" require it to be?
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.08.10 23:24:00 - [3984] It only specifies that it is "The fastest cruiser". How fast does being "the fastest cruiser" require it to be?
Otto Traugott	Posted - 2008.08.11 00:22:00 - [3985] Your proposed adjustments to ABs seem rather odd to me, especially in light of what you wish to accomplish. If you want to make afterburners more viable in PvP (especially relative to MWD), then I would suggest increasing their bonus both on the top and lower ends: 105% - 171% --> 150% - 225% (or maybe even 175% - 250%) This adjustment provides a better middle ground between no propulsion upgrades and MWDs as well as increasing the combat value of AB modules. Note that modern jet fighters (i.e., here on humble Earth) have afterburners that provide a boost of 140% - 170% to speed. In an era of warp drives and space travel, I think technology can do much better, especially in a space environment of no wind resistance.
Otto Traugott	Posted - 2008.08.11 00:22:00 - [3986] Your proposed adjustments to ABs seem rather odd to me, especially in light of what you wish to accomplish. If you want to make afterburners more viable in PvP (especially relative to MWD), then I would suggest increasing their bonus both on the top and lower ends: 105% - 171% --> 150% - 225% (or maybe even 175% - 250%) This adjustment provides a better middle ground between no propulsion upgrades and MWDs as well as increasing the combat value of AB modules. Note that modern jet fighters (i.e., here on humble Earth) have afterburners that provide a boost of 140% - 170% to speed. In an era of warp drives and space travel, I think technology can do much better, especially in a space environment of no wind resistance.
Doctor Mabuse	Posted - 2008.08.11 09:56:00 - [3987] Edited by: Doctor Mabuse on 11/08/2008 09:59:06 Originally by: Abrynn i just wanted to point this out this is the actual discription of the vaga ingame... And yet again: Originally by: Doctor Mabuse And those peeps who keep copying the Vagabond ship description? Well that's like saying MS Windows is a fantastic OS because, well, Microsoft say so Ship description based stats ftl. Its just manufacturers advertising after all Perhaps you should look through all the other ship descriptions and see how many of them exaggerate their ships capabilities, or is the Vaga description different because you think it proves your point? edit: Ironically the Vaga has one of the few descriptions which is actually true. It is, and will remain post speed-buff, the fastest cruiser in the game. ------------------------------------ Who's trip-trapping on my bridge?
Doctor Mabuse	Posted - 2008.08.11 09:56:00 - [3988] Edited by: Doctor Mabuse on 11/08/2008 09:59:06 Originally by: Abrynn i just wanted to point this out this is the actual discription of the vaga ingame... And yet again: Originally by: Doctor Mabuse And those peeps who keep copying the Vagabond ship description? Well that's like saying MS Windows is a fantastic OS because, well, Microsoft say so Ship description based stats ftl. Its just manufacturers advertising after all Perhaps you should look through all the other ship descriptions and see how many of them exaggerate their ships capabilities, or is the Vaga description different because you think it proves your point? edit: Ironically the Vaga has one of the few descriptions which is actually true. It is, and will remain post speed-buff, the fastest cruiser in the game. ------------------------------------ Who's trip-trapping on my bridge?
Vengal Seyhan Sten Industries	Posted - 2008.08.11 09:57:00 - [3989] Originally by: Amarr Holymight Edited by: Amarr Holymight on 06/08/2008 16:30:00 Originally by: Jakzin Originally by: Stab Wounds [Ishtar, shield] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Dark Blood Small Nosferatu [empty high slot] Core Defence Field Purger II Core Defence Field Purger II Ogre II x5 DPS: 634 Defense: 904 HACs look fine to me after speed nerf. you have to use unconventional pvp fits. This is almost as funny as the guy who said that armor tanking the vaga is a viable alternative and will become the new standard fast. I tried this fit on SISI last week ur basically just flying an expensive Drake with a DPS/Tank tradeoff, whats the point? I have to assume it's a joke. This is an absolutely stellar PvE fit vs Serpentis and Gurista, with a change to a couple of hardeners... you can solo L5s and you can run most plexes of the appropriate type. The lack of mobility on this fit means that PvP is only going to be done in a large fleet where you project your drones forward and you hang back at 60km++ (So why use Ogres? They're slow as a glacier). The guns are only for taking out drones that might have the temerity to engage you.
Vengal Seyhan Sten Industries	Posted - 2008.08.11 09:57:00 - [3990] Originally by: Amarr Holymight Edited by: Amarr Holymight on 06/08/2008 16:30:00 Originally by: Jakzin Originally by: Stab Wounds [Ishtar, shield] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Dark Blood Small Nosferatu [empty high slot] Core Defence Field Purger II Core Defence Field Purger II Ogre II x5 DPS: 634 Defense: 904 HACs look fine to me after speed nerf. you have to use unconventional pvp fits. This is almost as funny as the guy who said that armor tanking the vaga is a viable alternative and will become the new standard fast. I tried this fit on SISI last week ur basically just flying an expensive Drake with a DPS/Tank tradeoff, whats the point? I have to assume it's a joke. This is an absolutely stellar PvE fit vs Serpentis and Gurista, with a change to a couple of hardeners... you can solo L5s and you can run most plexes of the appropriate type. The lack of mobility on this fit means that PvP is only going to be done in a large fleet where you project your drones forward and you hang back at 60km++ (So why use Ogres? They're slow as a glacier). The guns are only for taking out drones that might have the temerity to engage you.

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