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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Alek Row
Minmatar Silent Step
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:03:00 -
[31]
Please, inform the people that is still posting in the dev blog thread that the discussion is now here.
Perma run MWDs that are able to do damage while MWDing will not suffer from the MWD re-activation delay, ships that have to pulse the MWD to be able to do some damage in an already very small time/space window will suffer from this change too much. The MWD re-activation delay is overkill.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:05:00 -
[32]
one thing: skill change
I will petition (and not only me) to have skill points redistributed from skirmish warfare to other warfare skill. Sorry but when ships are balanced no problem - its only isk. But when you change stuff that takes time to acquire (and quite a lot too) then things start to get nasty.
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here'n'there
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:05:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kay Han Edited by: Kay Han on 28/07/2008 15:59:14 awesome.. now we canŠt even "tank" cruise missiles propperly in a vaga :/
dont confuse 'tank' with 'avoid' |
Kay Han
Caldari Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:07:00 -
[34]
Originally by: here'n'there
Originally by: Kay Han Edited by: Kay Han on 28/07/2008 15:59:14 awesome.. now we canŠt even "tank" cruise missiles propperly in a vaga :/
dont confuse 'tank' with 'avoid'
Speedtanking is also a form of tanking. So the term "TANK" is absolutly fine for what iŠve meant. ;)
Originally by: CCP Atropos Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.
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here'n'there
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:13:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kay Han
Speedtanking is also a form of tanking. So the term "TANK" is absolutly fine for what iŠve meant. ;)
sure :-) you'll take reduced damage now and it's 'tanking', taking no damage - 'avoiding'. so nothing wrong with vaga's 'tank' :-) |
Sceelax
Endemic Aggression
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:16:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Sceelax on 28/07/2008 16:17:36
Originally by: Sceelax News just in!!! Low-Grade Snake Omegas are now worthless!!! All these implants take slot 6.
LG snake omega 2561m/s rogue cy1 2562m/s rogue cy2 2611m/s rogue my1 2551m/s rogue my2 2594m/s
Save your 350M on a Low Grade Snake Omega (even with the rest of the snake implants!) and buy a Rogue CY2 for 150M or a CY1 for 20M.
This was a public service announcement.
quoting for page two.
Also, just to add, a lot of people will be angry if their Low Grade Snake Omega, an expensive implant might I add, becomes worse than a very cheap implant that does not require Cybernetics 5. I'm one of those people.
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La Piedra
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:17:00 -
[37]
hi thx CCP when you bring this patsh then 80 or 90% or all minmatar pilot's stop the eve payment because
minmatar ist absolutly useless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
a normal fitted vagabond now fly 3.2 k m/s with 2 x nano 2 x overdrive 2 x polycarbon
when a vagabond fly under 4.5 k m/s you can't angage anything
then minmatar have 2 shit hac's the battleships from minmatar can't tank, too
thats then realy nice guy's a rapier or huginn insta killed by crusers because they are a stone in space that realy sucks
i don't have a problem with a speed nerf but then the vaga need a new speed boost or minmatar have 2 useless hac's
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reivol
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:17:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kay Han
Originally by: here'n'there
Originally by: Kay Han Edited by: Kay Han on 28/07/2008 15:59:14 awesome.. now we canŠt even "tank" cruise missiles propperly in a vaga :/
dont confuse 'tank' with 'avoid'
Speedtanking is also a form of tanking. So the term "TANK" is absolutly fine for what iŠve meant. ;)
Then that's the "can't" that was inapropriate... You surely wanted to say "now we can tank cruise missiles propperly in a vaga" ... since : - speed of 3000m/s in a vaga will decrease damage taken from cruise missiles by 90% - speed of 3000m/s in a vaga will decrease damage taken from precision cruise missiles by 63%
That's an awesome tank I would say
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here'n'there
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:22:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sceelax News just in!!! Low-Grade Snake Omegas are now worthless!!! All these implants take slot 6.
LG snake omega 2561m/s rogue cy1 2562m/s rogue cy2 2611m/s rogue my1 2551m/s rogue my2 2594m/s
Save your 350M on a Low Grade Snake Omega (even with the rest of the snake implants!) and buy a Rogue CY2 for 150M or a CY1 for 20M.
This was a public service announcement.
something wrong here, LG snake omega nerfed too much |
Sceelax
Endemic Aggression
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:23:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Sceelax News just in!!! Low-Grade Snake Omegas are now worthless!!! All these implants take slot 6.
LG snake omega 2561m/s rogue cy1 2562m/s rogue cy2 2611m/s rogue my1 2551m/s rogue my2 2594m/s
Save your 350M on a Low Grade Snake Omega (even with the rest of the snake implants!) and buy a Rogue CY2 for 150M or a CY1 for 20M.
This was a public service announcement.
To add further, considering that this nerf reduces the difference between t1 and t2 speed modules to negligible levels (minor cap use differences) the results of this test and the module changes means this is primarily a nerf to high SP players, as the omegas also require cybernetics V. Furthermore, this nerf also hits hard at skirmish warfare and the associated command ships - another large SP sink and time investment.
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reivol
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:24:00 -
[41]
Edited by: reivol on 28/07/2008 16:24:56
Originally by: La Piedra hi when a vagabond fly under 4.5 k m/s you can't angage anything
Why ?
- Other ships won't run speeder than you but inties (see the ishtar ? only 2,7km/s :p) => so you always can dictate range - as said before missile boat will see there damage reduced by 50 to 90% if you fly only 3000m/s - gun boat will see there damage reduced at a minimum of 50% if you fly at a range of 30km or less (and that's with the better ship, with the better tracking ...)
So that's a hell of a tank . You can't achieve easily such tank with shield or armor hardeners (a little test : how many invulnerability field you need to achieve a 50% damage reduction ?)
So again .. Why ?
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goodnight
Sleeper Technology Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:24:00 -
[42]
Edited by: goodnight on 28/07/2008 16:25:01
Originally by: Alek Row Perma run MWDs that are able to do damage while MWDing will not suffer from the MWD re-activation delay, ships that have to pulse the MWD to be able to do some damage in an already very small time/space window will suffer from this change too much. The MWD re-activation delay is overkill.
/signed
How can Minmatar campensate the lack of dps, drones and tank when there is no speed boost when you really need it? Once webbed or scrambled -which obviously happens pretty fast now- and the fight is over.
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Kay Han
Caldari Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:26:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Kay Han on 28/07/2008 16:26:30
Originally by: reivol
That's an awesome tank I would say
It would be. IF the vaga had other propper defense abilities then Speed. ;)
But hey lets all skill for drakes right now. Seems to be the superiour ship after the patch.
Originally by: CCP Atropos Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:27:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Kay Han But hey lets all skill for drakes right now. Seems to be the superiour ship after the patch
Please, god, someone who can log into the test server and has BS 5/T2 Blasters try out a Mega and see if it's been destroyed too.
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
ArmyOfMe
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:28:00 -
[45]
Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 28/07/2008 16:29:40
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Faelwenn Minarra
Minmatar MamCie ZjemCie
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:30:00 -
[46]
You can run a MWD on a vaga for what? 90 seconds? If you pulse it then your speed will be 2000-3000 m/s (assuming you can pulse it, with the reactivation delay you can't), so a salvo from a missile boat when you are at 2000m/s will destroy you.
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Alkeena
Gallente Unitas Nusquam Est FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:32:00 -
[47]
Originally by: reivol Edited by: reivol on 28/07/2008 16:24:56
Originally by: La Piedra hi when a vagabond fly under 4.5 k m/s you can't angage anything
Why ?
- Other ships won't run speeder than you but inties (see the ishtar ? only 2,7km/s :p) => so you always can dictate range - as said before missile boat will see there damage reduced by 50 to 90% if you fly only 3000m/s - gun boat will see there damage reduced at a minimum of 50% if you fly at a range of 30km or less (and that's with the better ship, with the better tracking ...)
So that's a hell of a tank . You can't achieve easily such tank with shield or armor hardeners (a little test : how many invulnerability field you need to achieve a 50% damage reduction ?)
So again .. Why ?
I've never flown a nano ship in my life. The only inty I fly is a blasteranis and so THAT's not even nanoed since I have to be able to survive in web range. That disclaimer out of the way so you dont resort to ad hominems against me...
That's effectively a 6 slot tank. 50-60% res is TERRIBLE for a 6 slot tank that also happens to screw his own tracking. And before you go on about the 90% vs std cruise; rails, the effective gun equivalent cant (and shouldnt) be able to hit him for **** either.
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Alek Row
Minmatar Silent Step
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:33:00 -
[48]
Correct me if I'm wrong but speed was considered as the Minmatar race trait, other races have other traits.
Why gallente ships appear on Sisi with less mass and more agility than Minmatar ships? Should a MWDing Gallente battleship be faster than a MWDing Minmatar battleship (same skills, same mods, etc)? Why? There are plans to remove speed as the Minmatar trait?
I know I may be asking too much but an answer to this would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Chr0nosX
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:35:00 -
[49]
Vaga when flying 3000m/s can't do any damage because its guns won't track with barrage.
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Kay Han
Caldari Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:35:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Kay Han on 28/07/2008 16:36:38
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Kay Han But hey lets all skill for drakes right now. Seems to be the superiour ship after the patch
Please, god, someone who can log into the test server and has BS 5/T2 Blasters try out a Mega and see if it's been destroyed too.
Well my opinion as blasterthron pilot ist the following:
either you fit a scram and a web.. so you once get your target tackled it will be toast. Nothing changed at all. Or you fit a disruptor then you could have teh problem that the target will outspeed you so you dont get in range and your cap runs dry over time through the perma MWDing.
I think vindicators will raise in price even more through thier 5th med slot. thouigh about to sell mine. But i think iŠll keep it (overloaded faction disruptor + disruptor + web = win ^^) also vigilants. ;)
Originally by: CCP Atropos Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.
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Kay Han
Caldari Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:36:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Faelwenn Minarra You can run a MWD on a vaga for what? 90 seconds? If you pulse it then your speed will be 2000-3000 m/s (assuming you can pulse it, with the reactivation delay you can't), so a salvo from a missile boat when you are at 2000m/s will destroy you.
16:26:56 Notify 10MN MicroWarpdrive II fails to activate as it is still recovering from its last period of operation and will be for the next 7 Seconds.
that much for pulsing. (without beeing scrambled or so)
Originally by: CCP Atropos Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.
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Sceelax
Endemic Aggression
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:36:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Sceelax on 28/07/2008 16:36:32
Originally by: Sceelax News just in!!! Low-Grade Snake Omegas are now worthless!!! All these implants take slot 6.
LG snake omega 2561m/s rogue cy1 2562m/s rogue cy2 2611m/s rogue my1 2551m/s rogue my2 2594m/s
Save your 350M on a Low Grade Snake Omega (even with the rest of the snake implants!) and buy a Rogue CY2 for 150M or a CY1 for 20M.
This was a public service announcement.
Sorry to quote this again, but more to add:
It's understandable that a nerf of any kind would more adversely affect high SP players than low, as skill training in eve is a game of diminishing returns. However when the nerf is such that the options available to the high sp player are WORSE than those the low SP player have access to, something is horribly imbalanced and needs to be reassessed.
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:38:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kay Han
Well my opinion as blasterthron pilot ist the following:
either you fit a scram and a web.. so you once get your target tackled it will be toast. Nothing changed at all. Or you fit a disruptor then you could have teh problem that the target will outspeed you so you dont get in range and your cap runs dry over time through the perma MWDing.
I think vindicators will raise in price even more through thier 5th med slot. thouigh about to sell mine. But i think iŠll keep it (overloaded faction disruptor + disruptor + web = win ^^) also vigilants. ;)
It could be worse. I guess. I suppose I should feel happy about Getting a Vindi for 899M yesterday then
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
LiMu Bai
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:41:00 -
[54]
Originally by: La Piedra
i don't have a problem with a speed nerf but then the vaga need a new speed boost or minmatar have 2 useless hac's
Well think about it. The whole "Heavy Assault Ahip" -class might be obsolete now. Those speeds are -by far- not longer sufficient to make such an expensive ship viable. That means instead of mobility you have to tank your HAC now. Nearly all HACs were somehow speedships...more or less. The problem is, that those ships dont have a good defense capability, without their speed. Cheap Tier 2 Battlecruisers can Tank alot of more and also deal a good amount of damage. A vagabond will never compete anymore against a 30mio Drake or Cane. Same for Ishtar, Muninn whatever HAC. The only counter will be range. So sniping HACs might be still useful.
Speed is the strength of a HAC. Without this, theyre useless, espcially if they have to pulse MWDs, which is totally impossible now, thanks to the reactivation delay.
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goodnight
Sleeper Technology Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:41:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Alek Row Why gallente ships appear on Sisi with less mass and more agility than Minmatar ships?
/signed again
And add "more low slots in most cases" to the statement above which even supports this question.
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Alek Row
Minmatar Silent Step
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:43:00 -
[56]
Originally by: goodnight
Originally by: Alek Row Why gallente ships appear on Sisi with less mass and more agility than Minmatar ships?
/signed again
And add "more low slots in most cases" to the statement above which even supports this question.
Less mass only, not agility, my mistake, sry...
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Zikka
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:44:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Sceelax Edited by: Sceelax on 28/07/2008 16:36:32
Originally by: Sceelax News just in!!! Low-Grade Snake Omegas are now worthless!!! All these implants take slot 6.
LG snake omega 2561m/s rogue cy1 2562m/s rogue cy2 2611m/s rogue my1 2551m/s rogue my2 2594m/s
Save your 350M on a Low Grade Snake Omega (even with the rest of the snake implants!) and buy a Rogue CY2 for 150M or a CY1 for 20M.
This was a public service announcement.
Sorry to quote this again, but more to add:
It's understandable that a nerf of any kind would more adversely affect high SP players than low, as skill training in eve is a game of diminishing returns. However when the nerf is such that the options available to the high sp player are WORSE than those the low SP player have access to, something is horribly imbalanced and needs to be reassessed.
I'd hope that this is exactly the sort of test result the devs are looking for and will do something to fix. :)
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Adago Vilon
Minmatar Wise Guys Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:47:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Mes Ren As far as speed tank, once you hit the 2km mark, you can speed tank all bs turrets (taking less than 5% dmg total - doesn't matter how fast you are, some shots just hit) and you take less than 10% dmg from heavy missles (non percesion). When you get up to 2.7km you are taking a lot less dmg.
Sorry Mes, but this is misleading. 2.7km/s is hopeless for tanking BS guns. Any AC battleship with barrage could seriously put the hurt on a HAC travelling at that speed and with that sig res.
Last week a tachyon abaddon was tracking a 4.5km/s+ vaga as he orbitted (I can only guess at ~3km/s orbitting speed minimum). The point being that a tracking enhanced abaddon does track a nano cruiser as things stand.
I am most concerned that speed will be removed from the equation completely by these changes. I read the list of them and even the beard stroking part but nowhere did i see due consideration of the cumulative effect of all of these put together. From the initial figures, it looks way over the top. I even see that Black Ops are going to be slower than ever! When are they going to be looked at?!
Please devs, if you are going to implement these speed changes, review tracking of large targets vs smaller ones (especially after you nerf tracking disruptors).
Also how about giving the Hyena/Rapier bonuses to web strength instead of painting... otherwise they're going to be utterly pointless.
Or, make webs more effective against MWDing targets (ie link to sig radius). This will be beneficial to ships using afterburners as well. Two birds...
Please de-alphabetise local! Sort it by time spent in local. I don't want to be at the top of local anymore. Ta!
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reivol
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:51:00 -
[59]
Quote: That's effectively a 6 slot tank. 50-60% res is TERRIBLE for a 6 slot tank that also happens to screw his own tracking. And before you go on about the 90% vs std cruise; rails, the effective gun equivalent cant (and shouldnt) be able to hit him for **** either.
I'm afraid you're confusing damage reduction due to speed and ship resistance. In the previously vagabon example, speed tanking will reduce incoming damage by 50 or 60% (or even 90% against cruise ....) That's of course on top of inate resistance of the vaga which are : - 75/60/40/50 for shield - 90/67,5/25/10 for amour
So all in all, if your speed tank is reducing incoming damage by only 50% (which is the minimum at 3000km/s) that's equivalent to a double tank (shield AND armour) of : - 87,5/80/70/75 for shield - 95/86/62,5/55 for amour
that's what I call an impressive huge tank
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Jallem Sims
Minmatar Quantum Warriors
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:53:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Sceelax Edited by: Sceelax on 28/07/2008 16:36:32
Originally by: Sceelax News just in!!! Low-Grade Snake Omegas are now worthless!!! All these implants take slot 6.
LG snake omega 2561m/s rogue cy1 2562m/s rogue cy2 2611m/s rogue my1 2551m/s rogue my2 2594m/s
Save your 350M on a Low Grade Snake Omega (even with the rest of the snake implants!) and buy a Rogue CY2 for 150M or a CY1 for 20M.
This was a public service announcement.
Sorry to quote this again, but more to add:
It's understandable that a nerf of any kind would more adversely affect high SP players than low, as skill training in eve is a game of diminishing returns. However when the nerf is such that the options available to the high sp player are WORSE than those the low SP player have access to, something is horribly imbalanced and needs to be reassessed.
basically, all those 25-30 day skills at lvl 5 for my nav, implants... cause i am not including the hac lvl (tbh its a lvl up for whatever is the result) and then the days and months it took me to get the isk for snakes cause they where the best and i wanted to train for the best speed tank.... was kinda, wasted. the result of seting up skililng the way it is now, means you actually invest game time (game time = rl money). So you can see why i am close to feeling hard done by (close!)
not only that, but tbh, i could have spent that time on skilling up missiles or other tank available options. Jeese, just imagine i set up a char to do just this, and without warning ccp change the goal posts. Kinda like wasting my time and rl money by doing this? I think if your planning this, you should not implement it so quick for those that have just got to this level to actually experiance the flavour of there hard work :(
its not the nerf/boost i am sad and feel cheated by, its the speed in which it will be implemented with out been informed it was coming. for those of us that have just finished or about to finish this long training path, and not been able to experiance the hard work we put in.
like a mission runner saving up for a navy raven after weeks and weeks of mission running to only find that ccp remove it completely from the game.... the day after you brought it!
tears? i wish this game meant so much to me it bothered me. However to know someone is actually been screwed over and it is upset knowing all that time and effort will be gone in less than a couple of weeks without prior press release explaining future changes. I'd have to question CCP's Ethical policies on this.... |
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