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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Grath Telkin
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.28 21:49:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Orange Faeces
Lets see if I can fix your thinking from entitled whine mindset to something more realistic: Inties use it. Dictors should be able to use it. HACs should NOT be able to use it when they are kicking out 500DPS.
In all my time, i feel ive now been shorted on flying a certain ship.
Please, since your here to help, find me the ship that does 500dps while using a speed tank?
I'll help you, there isn't one.
Idiot.
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Taya Tal
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Posted - 2008.07.28 21:49:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Orange Faeces
Originally by: Miriyaka Edited by: Miriyaka on 28/07/2008 21:13:03 Everything about this change is heavy-handed and ill-thought out. I'm sure you believe that this makes the game conform more to your grand 'vision', but you don't seem to understand how many new problems it will create for you nor how unattractive it makes part of eve's endgame (hacs, recons, and other T2 ships).
Currently, no HAC can out-tank or out-DPS its tier-1 or tier-2 battlecruiser counterpart (except the zealot, ugh), yet they cost 10-20x as much after insurance (even if you insure the hac, which nobody does for obvious reasons). So, what do they currently offer that these cheap, easy-to-fit battlecruisers or battleships don't? Speed. Not ridiculous speed, but just enough speed to keep missiles from quickly annihilating them, or to keep a pulse Zealot's damage low enough so they can run away (seriously what the hell is with pulse zealots, fix locus rigs already) before instantly exploding.
This ridiculous set of changes takes that away, and in turn takes away an entire style of play that involves being fast enough to disengage but not so fast that you're invulnerable. Fix the top 1% of the speed spectrum (snakes etc, but please not so clumsily as to render them useless), make afterburners more attractive options rather than making MWDs less attractive. Mass mods worked fine, simply bring their percentages in line with everything else. Gang bonuses were fine except when combined with snakes - making all ships so high-mass and unagile that the 15% mindlink agility bonus is needed to orbit at a reasonable speed is extremely shortsighted.
In game design, boosting is always better than nerfing, especially with broad changes - this is something your customer base should not have to tell you.
Edit - what I mean to say is that you should give players more options for countering high-speed ships-- not that there aren't a whole slew of them already with rapiers/huginns, curses, battleship neuts, bubbles, bait traps, etc etc-- rather than decapitating an entire style of play.
This.
This.
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Sweet Rosella
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Posted - 2008.07.28 21:50:00 -
[243]
Edited by: Sweet Rosella on 28/07/2008 21:53:13
Originally by: Orange Faeces Edited by: Orange Faeces on 28/07/2008 21:42:13
Originally by: Grath Telkin
see, thats were your wrong, a speed tank SHOULD be a viable tank, its in the game, inties use it, hac's use it, dictors use it. Thats a fairly broad spectrum of ships that use a speed tank, so it IS IN FACT A TANK.
Lets see if I can fix your thinking from entitled whine mindset to something more realistic: Inties use it. Dictors should be able to use it. HACs should NOT be able to use it when they are kicking out 500DPS.
Hows that?
I'm here to help... really....
Vaga only puts out 428 dps with warrior 2's and all skills on 5 can not hit anything unless there is low transverse and at its optimal which = in webb range and mwd off = easy to kill, btw only has enough cap to run mwd for 600k
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Grath Telkin
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.28 21:51:00 -
[244]
Originally by: KingCappo
Care to show me a nano-vaga that puts out 500 DPS?
He can't, he doesn't play EVE, he plays EFT
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AntonioBanderas
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.07.28 21:53:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Orange Faeces
Lets see if I can fix your thinking from entitled whine mindset to something more realistic: Inties use it. Dictors should be able to use it. HACs should NOT be able to use it when they are kicking out 500DPS.
Hows that?
I'm here to help... really....
EFT WARRIOR DETECTED __________________________________________________ I can say ASS \o/ yay!!!
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Don't forget your cloak. It rains sometimes.
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Taya Tal
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Posted - 2008.07.28 21:54:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: KingCappo
Care to show me a nano-vaga that puts out 500 DPS?
He can't, he doesn't play EVE, he plays EFT
That DPS number in EFT is for a vagabond at autocannon optimal range. Most vaga's operate at 18-24km. You see, when they are at this range, a little thing called fall-off comes into play. Fall-off reduces that nice DPS number you see in EFT, especially when you talking about ranges around 20km.
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Orange Faeces
Minmatar xXDroneSwarmXx
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Posted - 2008.07.28 21:54:00 -
[247]
Edited by: Orange Faeces on 28/07/2008 21:55:05
Originally by: Miriyaka
The only HACs that can speedtank and do more than 100dps are the Ishtar and Sacrilege. Both reach max speeds of only 4km/s with full-T2, rogues, polycarbs, and AC V. Neither can maintain that speed in an orbit. The Ishtar does 450dps, but its drones are extremely slow and can be killed off, and it can easily be tackled by an interceptor or neuted off by a battleship. The Sacrilege is more neut-resistant due to its fast cap recharge, but only does 250dps and is less agile yet than the Ishtar.
Of these two, only the Sacrilege is actually a 'problem' that needs looking at. Every other HAC uses speed to dictate range or escape trouble, not to buzz around its target while doing full damage.
See, grath... someone just proved my point for me! I'm done with ya.
So, this is the whole point of what CCP is trying to do -- ishtar and zealot should not be able to speed tank while doing all of their damage. Its not about the vaga. But I also agree with that goon post that the nerf is too much too quickly.
OF
edit... wow there are a lot of idiots in here. --- The Other Orange |
AntonioBanderas
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.07.28 21:57:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Orange Faeces
edit... wow there are a lot of idiots in here.
yeah... you __________________________________________________ I can say ASS \o/ yay!!!
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Don't forget your cloak. It rains sometimes.
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KingCappo
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.07.28 21:57:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Orange Faeces
So, this is the whole point of what CCP is trying to do -- ishtar and zealot should not be able to speed tank while doing all of their damage. Its not about the vaga. But I also agree with that goon post that the nerf is too much too quickly.
Then why have they dramatically increased the mass of the vaga on sisi?
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Taya Tal
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:04:00 -
[250]
Descriptors of CCP:
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http://forum.alsacreations.com/upload/2043-fail-camera.jpg
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Oncely Magnanimous
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:06:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Orange Faeces Edited by: Orange Faeces on 28/07/2008 21:55:05
Originally by: Miriyaka
The only HACs that can speedtank and do more than 100dps are the Ishtar and Sacrilege. Both reach max speeds of only 4km/s with full-T2, rogues, polycarbs, and AC V. Neither can maintain that speed in an orbit. The Ishtar does 450dps, but its drones are extremely slow and can be killed off, and it can easily be tackled by an interceptor or neuted off by a battleship. The Sacrilege is more neut-resistant due to its fast cap recharge, but only does 250dps and is less agile yet than the Ishtar.
Of these two, only the Sacrilege is actually a 'problem' that needs looking at. Every other HAC uses speed to dictate range or escape trouble, not to buzz around its target while doing full damage.
See, grath... someone just proved my point for me! I'm done with ya.
So, this is the whole point of what CCP is trying to do -- ishtar and zealot should not be able to speed tank while doing all of their damage. Its not about the vaga. But I also agree with that goon post that the nerf is too much too quickly.
OF
edit... wow there are a lot of idiots in here.
what?
Miriyaka just showed you that the Sac is problematic due to missle dps (which at this point will still be broken after the patch), and the Ishtar is fairly easy to deal with. No drones, no dps. Or hit it with a neut (because it's either boosting, or a multiple billion isk ship/implant setup) and it'll go away. and again, both ships are vulnerable to getting webbed currently.
the only other ships that are going to do 500dps or more are missile boats, the broken laser ships (woot for stacking rigs), or suicide setups, aka blasters.
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AntonioBanderas
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:07:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Thats the thing, half you guys have no ****ing clue what your talking about for actual use of the ship. You load your little "All 5" into your ship load out for EFT then come crying about it here. You look dumb, worse still, your preach about it like its some kind of truth, making you look even worse.
QFT And in the end help ccp **** things up *****ing loud. __________________________________________________ I can say ASS \o/ yay!!!
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Don't forget your cloak. It rains sometimes.
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Kellen Pikara
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:07:00 -
[253]
What's going to kill the utility of the vagabond isn't so much the diminished speed. If agility and acceleration are impacted as heavily as they are on sisi, there will be no reason to fly one.
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:08:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Vision Threads Edited by: Vision Threads on 28/07/2008 18:29:22 Oh this is amazing my T2 drake can kill speed-fit ares before they even get in tackling range, with like two and a half volleys! The only thing that can prevent me from going into warp is a bubble!
Guerilla is alive and well. With nothing able to tackle my drake for long, I can hit-and-run all day. Unless I get in web range of a battleship somehow I guess.
You're in a drake. Don't worry, big ships will catch you.
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:13:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Kellen Pikara What's going to kill the utility of the vagabond isn't so much the diminished speed. If agility and acceleration are impacted as heavily as they are on sisi, there will be no reason to fly one.
Yes, I don't think I emphasized this in my first post decrying the scale of these changes.
Seventeen seconds for a speed-fit HAC to align? Are you kidding me? Even if it still had a max speed of 6km/s, you'd never actually get there. At disruptor range, you'd be lucky to orbit at 3km/s. Now with a max speed of 3k, you'll be hitting 1.5k max in orbit. I have no words to describe how stupid this is, and how much more tedious this will make 'fast' gang warfare (what CCP likes to call 'guerrilla warfare').
Again, why bring a HAC when a BC can go 80% as fast, with 90% of the align speed?
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Taya Tal
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:14:00 -
[256]
CCP fail even more.
http://images.goonfleet.com/images/ccp/2007.05.25.15.19.48.jpg
http://images.goonfleet.com/images/ccp/CCP%20charkbait%202.png
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:16:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Haakelen Take a Vagabond. Put 15 Drakes on a gate, + a Rapier cloaked. Let him think he's fine to screw around. Begin firing missiles at the Vagabond. Decloak the Rapier, web the Vagabond.
Marvel as 250 Heavy missiles come slamming into him in 2 seconds, where all hybird/projectile charges and laser bursts fired at him before would've not done a thing.
Yeah, missiles are totally useless, how dare we suggest they might have a reason to exist.
Yeah, because a webbed vaga wouldn't get mudstomped by turrets even worse than by those drakes, right?
Oh sorry, you wanted to compare missiles + webs vs turrets + no web, my bad.
You put 15 turret BCs spread out somewhat around a gate, and you'll find that vaga is keeping far, far, away, since he's not going to keep enough transversal on the spread out ships to avoid fire, whereas if he's going X m/s, he can do whatever he likes, wherever he likes, if facing missiles.
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LuthienTinuviel
The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:16:00 -
[258]
So was going to do some testing in FD- on test don't really see much ****ing point tbh given the reaction of the CCP representative there and there obvious predisposition to speed and also his obvious assumption that ALL fighting is done by nano's.
Quote: [ 2008.07.28 21:58:09 ] ElweSingollo > still a dev though and sorry but basing your changes on what a minority of the eve population can actually affor i.e. high grade snakes is ******ed [ 2008.07.28 21:58:29 ] sopmac1 > ouch [ 2008.07.28 21:58:30 ] Kanx Alanks > elwesingollo you have no clue what your talking about [ 2008.07.28 21:58:30 ] Yowin > who the hell is going to use a huginn over a rapier now? [ 2008.07.28 21:58:34 ] CCP Atropos > sigh [ 2008.07.28 21:58:36 ] Yowin > no tank, no speed [ 2008.07.28 21:58:38 ] The Judge > ships were too fast without snakes in still [ 2008.07.28 21:58:42 ] Aria Selenis > Whats a huginn. [ 2008.07.28 21:58:43 ] nimbadhe > i need shield :P [ 2008.07.28 21:58:45 ] Captator > hehe atropos you must put up with a lot of this? ^^ [ 2008.07.28 21:58:45 ] CCP Atropos > it's simple really [ 2008.07.28 21:58:50 ] Dante Reborn > lol webs are useless now [ 2008.07.28 21:58:52 ] CCP Atropos > when it becomes the de facto method for fighting [ 2008.07.28 21:58:54 ] Kanx Alanks > rofl you DIDNT NEED SNAKES to hit 6km before learn the godamn game [ 2008.07.28 21:58:55 ] CCP Atropos > it needs ot be nerfed [ 2008.07.28 21:59:00 ] Captator > it isn't defacto [ 2008.07.28 21:59:02 ] CCP Atropos > simple as really
So yeha is there really any point whatsoever in testing things out when that is your attitude CCP and this is coming form a person who has exactly one ship thats nanoed and no Snake set (which CCP seem to assume that the majority of players have.
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:18:00 -
[259]
Thorradin, as usual, you're missing the point. Because you're a narrowminded, myopic little ***** who can't think outside the box.
If you weren't, you might realize that I'm pointing out that missiles already fired will catch up to a webbed ship. Charges and laser firings don't.
PS: if you caldari militia people weren't such total idiots you might try using warhead flare catalysts and precision T2 light missiles and see what they do against nanoships, hint: they make them explode very easily.
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
Taya Tal
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:19:00 -
[260]
Originally by: LuthienTinuviel So was going to do some testing in FD- on test don't really see much ****ing point tbh given the reaction of the CCP representative there and there obvious predisposition to speed and also his obvious assumption that ALL fighting is done by nano's.
Quote: [ 2008.07.28 21:58:09 ] ElweSingollo > still a dev though and sorry but basing your changes on what a minority of the eve population can actually affor i.e. high grade snakes is ******ed [ 2008.07.28 21:58:29 ] sopmac1 > ouch [ 2008.07.28 21:58:30 ] Kanx Alanks > elwesingollo you have no clue what your talking about [ 2008.07.28 21:58:30 ] Yowin > who the hell is going to use a huginn over a rapier now? [ 2008.07.28 21:58:34 ] CCP Atropos > sigh [ 2008.07.28 21:58:36 ] Yowin > no tank, no speed [ 2008.07.28 21:58:38 ] The Judge > ships were too fast without snakes in still [ 2008.07.28 21:58:42 ] Aria Selenis > Whats a huginn. [ 2008.07.28 21:58:43 ] nimbadhe > i need shield :P [ 2008.07.28 21:58:45 ] Captator > hehe atropos you must put up with a lot of this? ^^ [ 2008.07.28 21:58:45 ] CCP Atropos > it's simple really [ 2008.07.28 21:58:50 ] Dante Reborn > lol webs are useless now [ 2008.07.28 21:58:52 ] CCP Atropos > when it becomes the de facto method for fighting [ 2008.07.28 21:58:54 ] Kanx Alanks > rofl you DIDNT NEED SNAKES to hit 6km before learn the godamn game [ 2008.07.28 21:58:55 ] CCP Atropos > it needs ot be nerfed [ 2008.07.28 21:59:00 ] Captator > it isn't defacto [ 2008.07.28 21:59:02 ] CCP Atropos > simple as really
So yeha is there really any point whatsoever in testing things out when that is your attitude CCP and this is coming form a person who has exactly one ship thats nanoed and no Snake set (which CCP seem to assume that the majority of players have.
I think it's a given that CCP is NOT open to suggestions from players and indeed will NOT allow the opinions of SiSi testers to affect their decision.
The government should fear the people. The people should not fear the government.
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APEXrevived
Imperium Technologies
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:19:00 -
[261]
i posted a thread in support of many of your responses. i too support baby steps. a necessary first one which we were all prepared for is balancing polycarb rigs to be on par with their t1 counterparts.
easy change, can be made live with little testing, and a very safe first step.
Warning: Never name your char by anything starting with an A... sig stolen from Apolyon I. I support this statement. |
Aedron
Sinister Defiance Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:22:00 -
[262]
balance... its a terrible thing when a game company talks about balance. I like Rock, Paper, Scissors me.
With this nerf essentially being another step towards balance in a game you all must ask is that what we want?
Balance - (in an eve scene) would mean every ship has the same odds in every situation for whatever reason. Full balance would mean that a cerb has the same chance as a vagabond in PvP as it has in PvE and all the variations within the two. The only difference being the class of ship rather that the type or race. Leading to the question why have 4 separate races in the first place?
The Speed ISSUE not problem was that nano spec ships where one of the last remaining specializations remaining in the game. Ewar has been nerfed to the point of extinction and so now its the speed fit ships turn. well what has that got to do with rock, paper scissors I hear you ask?
It in start of every game there is the Rock, Paper Scissors Idea and its what makes the game great, its core. It allows a certain ship or class in a game to be miles better than another while being controlled by its counter part.
The wrong tree? I believe that CCP is barking entirely up the wrong tree, apposed to adding a sufficient counter part to the game they have removed the issue itself. Whats wrong with that? well basically your removing a play style, or as CCP would like you to believe limiting it to the point where its no longer fun. Thats wrong, instead of removing the Rock they should add the paper. Alter the existing ships or implement new ones and add to the gameplay aposed to removing from it.
Why do this? If you keep removing from a game choice is effected. Some may argue that by removing the nano ships (might as well call them the HAC class) you will have more variety but thats only because the other ships, specializations are underdeveloped.
So ok,what should be implemented then? After testing things like,
Making the HIC bubble also have a Web Script that effects everyone inside its bubble.
Increased Tracking and falloff for all sniper ships giving them the ability to shoot up close AND far away.
Increasing the effectiveness of the Ewar Frig, making them immune to web and jamming.
Decreasing the cost of bombs and increasing the effectiveness
Fixing all the recons so they can actually work
Making spider tanking better, Warfare links better
I think most will agree that majority would rather see CCP implement MORE content to the game than keep removing it. Yes being able to move "silly" fast is hard to combat in this game but if people are spending 1.8bill to get there then let them. Implement new ways to combat these issues apposed to removing essentially your own content or you will end up with a game that has less avalible content that when it was first launched. (for example mines? hehe)
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:25:00 -
[263]
Since when is speed the defacto method of fighting? What?
Only a tiny minority of players use speed-fit HACs, probably 10-20% in 0.0 and sub-1% in empire. I see far more battleships, BCs, cruisers, and interceptors already in a normal day of roaming in all areas of 0.0, than I do HACs, and not all of those HACs are speed-tanking, many are snipers.
Where is Mr. Atropos getting his statistics that clearly show speed as the defacto method of fighting? From people posting on the forums whining about being ganked by a Vagabond while ratting or moving around lowsec?
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Mobile Dragon
Minmatar MobileBlack Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:25:00 -
[264]
Just a minute to compare armor tanked vagabond with same armor tanked hurricane. With pretty rough estimate and nearly same fitting we can get: Hurricane: Effective HP: 72 700 DPS: 470
Vagabond: Effective HP: 31 200 DPS: 317
In DPS config with minor tank: Hurricane: Effective HP: 45 000 DPS: 705
Vagabond: Effective HP: 17 000 DPS: 471
So now explain what's that "Heavy Assault" Cruiser should be used for?
1. BC is cheaper. A LOT cheaper. 2. You can train in a LOT faster. 3. It's twice as better at tank and in DPS.
Only better thing is a falloff bonus, which is usefull of course, but i won't bet on vaga in 1 on 1 fight here, nohow.
Nearly same picture will be in any comparison to HAC vs BC tier 2.
No matter which you choose - HACs has no role at all in game with offered changes.
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:26:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Haakelen Edited by: Haakelen on 28/07/2008 19:12:13 Hell, you want to counter a Vaga with only Caldari ships, Warhead Flare Catalyst rig a Cerberus with precision lights. You will barbecue nanos, current mechanics. Are you smart, and don't buy into the 'one ship = one ship to counter' argument? Awesome. Falcon + Crow + DPS boat, doesn't matter which one. Drake, Cerb, Raven, etc.
PS: That cerb, with max skills? 6000m/s Explosion Velocity. That is 90% of nanos.
Amarr have neuts and Pulse (Seriously look at the tracking sometime). Gallente have drones and neuts. Caldari have ECM and missiles (when used intelligently). Minmatar have speed. There's only 'No racial counter' if you're intentionally ignoring the facts.
I feel compelled to introduce you to the Nighthawk. You should go read the bonuses on it. There's one that is really nice (in theory), that kinda sucked, but will actually be pretty damn awesome now.
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LuthienTinuviel
The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:27:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Miriyaka Since when is speed the defacto method of fighting? What?
Only a tiny minority of players use speed-fit HACs, probably 10-20% in 0.0 and sub-1% in empire. I see far more battleships, BCs, cruisers, and interceptors already in a normal day of roaming in all areas of 0.0, than I do HACs, and not all of those HACs are speed-tanking, many are snipers.
Where is Mr. Atropos getting his statistics that clearly show speed as the defacto method of fighting? From people posting on the forums whining about being ganked by a Vagabond while ratting or moving around lowsec?
Dunno but being honest after that little local discussion I logged off in disgust I am not going to waste my time testing stuff on SISI when CCP spout that crap I have two months left on my accounts sub's if the CCP continues in this tac then I guess I will not be renewing my accounts and no you can't have my stuff guys ;P.
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:28:00 -
[267]
My alt can fly one. What's your point? I wasn't talking about the Nighthawk. I was talking about the Cerberus and to a lesser extent Caracal and drake.
If you're arguing the Nighthawk was pointless before this nerf, you obviously have no business using one, as you don't know how to fit it.
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
Taya Tal
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:28:00 -
[268]
Originally by: LuthienTinuviel
Originally by: Miriyaka Since when is speed the defacto method of fighting? What?
Only a tiny minority of players use speed-fit HACs, probably 10-20% in 0.0 and sub-1% in empire. I see far more battleships, BCs, cruisers, and interceptors already in a normal day of roaming in all areas of 0.0, than I do HACs, and not all of those HACs are speed-tanking, many are snipers.
Where is Mr. Atropos getting his statistics that clearly show speed as the defacto method of fighting? From people posting on the forums whining about being ganked by a Vagabond while ratting or moving around lowsec?
Dunno but being honest after that little local discussion I logged off in disgust I am not going to waste my time testing stuff on SISI when CCP spout that crap I have two months left on my accounts sub's if the CCP continues in this tac then I guess I will not be renewing my accounts and no you can't have my stuff guys ;P.
I endorse this post.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:29:00 -
[269]
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 28/07/2008 22:28:59
Originally by: LuthienTinuviel
[ 2008.07.28 21:58:34 ] CCP Atropos > sigh ? ^^ [ 2008.07.28 21:58:45 ] CCP Atropos > it's simple really [ 2008.07.28 21:58:52 ] CCP Atropos > when it becomes the de facto method for fighting [ 2008.07.28 21:58:55 ] CCP Atropos > it needs ot be nerfed [ 2008.07.28 21:59:02 ] CCP Atropos > simple as really
WHAT IS THIS DUMB SH*T111!!!
Battleships need to be changed/removed/made useless, they are the de facto method of fighting in fleets
Captials need to be changed/removed/made useless, they are the de facto method of fighting when taking Sov.
Please fire that guy, thats the dumbest reasoning I've ever heard, and totally leads me to believe you have NO idea how to play your own game.
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Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.07.28 22:29:00 -
[270]
ECM becomes more overpowered with these changes as it will now be harder to get fast ships to force Falcons to disengage.
Lowsec PvP is not nano based as they tend to not fair well against sentries of stations and gates where 90% of lowsec combat occurs. SO I suspect Atropos is pulling figures out of his "Censored"
A Pirates Perspective
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