| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Topic |
FlameGlow
Caldari
State Protectorate
    |
Posted - 2008.07.31 13:59:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Marquis Zenas
Instead how about an alternative:
Skill: Guidance scrambling
Module: Guidance disruptor - Midslot - Disrupts and confuses the missile guidance systems with ghost images on the target ship causing them to waste fuel or to detonate early. Has two effects:
- Reduce explosion velocity
- Reduce missile velocity
Again scripts can be used to increase one at the expense of the other.
You want to create analog of tracking disruptor for missiles?, it's all very well and good, but where are counters for this ewar? Turrets have tracking computers, enchansers, links; missiles have nothing of the sort.
_____________
I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
|
Posted - 2008.07.31 14:12:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Pohbis on 31/07/2008 14:15:07
Originally by: Yukisa
I'm all for fixing defenders if CCP can do it. It's been what, 5 years and the damn things are still so crap. Maybe its not possible, something to do with their physics engine.
The reason nothing has been done about defenders is that missiles are crap in PvP. If people had whined about missiles being nber on nano levels, they'd been fixed a long time ago.
Missiles are "lolz" in PvP and thus a nerf would have just been adding insult to injury.
If, and that's freaking big if, missiles turn out to reach nano-levels after the patch. People will have a leg to stand on when asking for a defender boost. Until then, let's see how the numbers turn out when CCP puts the patch out.
|
Vision Threads
|
Posted - 2008.07.31 14:22:00 -
[33]
Originally by: FlameGlow
You want to create analog of tracking disruptor for missiles?, it's all very well and good, but where are counters for this ewar? Turrets have tracking computers, enchansers, links; missiles have nothing of the sort.
There are very cheap rigs that affect missile explosion velocity and radius. CCP could add similar-functioning mods to the game.
I like the idea of having tracking disruptors themselves (the mod we already have in the game) be scriptable to affect missile ships. That would breathe a little life into the curse and pilgrim.
|
FlameGlow
Caldari
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.07.31 14:39:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Vision Threads
Originally by: FlameGlow
You want to create analog of tracking disruptor for missiles?, it's all very well and good, but where are counters for this ewar? Turrets have tracking computers, enchansers, links; missiles have nothing of the sort.
There are very cheap rigs that affect missile explosion velocity and radius. CCP could add similar-functioning mods to the game.
Turrets have rigs for them too you know and tracking/range mods.
_____________
I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Marquis Zenas
Gallente
m3 Corp
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.07.31 14:43:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Marquis Zenas on 31/07/2008 14:45:36
Originally by: FlameGlow
Turrets have rigs for them too you know and tracking/range mods.
True. So what do you suggest? Slight adaption to target painters which kind of affect missiles at the moment (at should be a missile specific module). Or a brand new module "Triangulation Matrix" that assists explosion velocity and flight time perhaps?
--------------------------
 |
Vengal Seyhan
Sten Industries
|
Posted - 2008.07.31 14:49:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Vision Threads
Originally by: FlameGlow
You want to create analog of tracking disruptor for missiles?, it's all very well and good, but where are counters for this ewar? Turrets have tracking computers, enchansers, links; missiles have nothing of the sort.
There are very cheap rigs that affect missile explosion velocity and radius. CCP could add similar-functioning mods to the game.
I like the idea of having tracking disruptors themselves (the mod we already have in the game) be scriptable to affect missile ships. That would breathe a little life into the curse and pilgrim.
Now that's a good idea. I like that.
...except for the whole 4 scripts needed thing, but hey. :D
One of (not the only) the key drivers to everyone nanoing up is that there wasn't any way to avoid missiles except by speed. I don't really care how it's done - if you're thinking about reducing speeds in the game, you need to be able to reduce damage done from missiles.
Ideally in a mixed gang vs mixed gang fight, everyone should be able to fit a countermeasure module, target the ship most affected by it, and mess with the DPS output of the opposing ship.
This DPS reduction should be independent of, or at least not entirely dependent on, speed. It should also be independent of ship class. (One great thing about midslots is that in theory at least, you can put anything on on any ship... highslots aren't the same)
So, make defenders work, make them pop drones too if needs be. Do whatever else you need to, I don't mind, as long as something works to reduce incoming DPS from missiles aside from plain old speed.
|
Vision Threads
|
Posted - 2008.07.31 15:07:00 -
[37]
Originally by: FlameGlow
Originally by: Vision Threads
Originally by: FlameGlow
You want to create analog of tracking disruptor for missiles?, it's all very well and good, but where are counters for this ewar? Turrets have tracking computers, enchansers, links; missiles have nothing of the sort.
There are very cheap rigs that affect missile explosion velocity and radius. CCP could add similar-functioning mods to the game.
Turrets have rigs for them too you know and tracking/range mods.
Ya, you do bring up a good point. Whereas turret ships have to fit tracking mods in pvp to protect them from potential anti-tracking ewar, missile ships don't have to fit any such mods. They're free fit extra tank or damage mods instead. We should probably even the playing field out by introducing some new mods that missile boats can fit that protect against some new anti-missile ewar.
|
Jas Dor
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.07.31 15:38:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Smartbombs for drones. Good luck with missiles, looks like you're screwed like all the other non-Caldari players out there.
Jam out the target then have two or more agroing ships to split his FoF's (if he has any) and out tank him. Same way we handled it back in the day.
Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU! |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
eXceed.
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 13:32:00 -
[39]
Why not introduce some kind of 'Phalanx/Goalkeeper' missile defence systems? Automated point defences vs missiles.
|
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 13:52:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Vision Threads
Originally by: FlameGlow
Originally by: Vision Threads
Originally by: FlameGlow
You want to create analog of tracking disruptor for missiles?, it's all very well and good, but where are counters for this ewar? Turrets have tracking computers, enchansers, links; missiles have nothing of the sort.
There are very cheap rigs that affect missile explosion velocity and radius. CCP could add similar-functioning mods to the game.
Turrets have rigs for them too you know and tracking/range mods.
Ya, you do bring up a good point. Whereas turret ships have to fit tracking mods in pvp to protect them from potential anti-tracking ewar, missile ships don't have to fit any such mods. They're free fit extra tank or damage mods instead. We should probably even the playing field out by introducing some new mods that missile boats can fit that protect against some new anti-missile ewar.
what tracking mods ? simple web and some maneuvering will decrease the effect of tracking disruption ... now how would that be possible for missiles ?
also do not forget that missiles are static systems, nothing chance based so anything affecting them (well except defenders but they are broken) has a FIXED effect on the damage dealt.
a missile tracking disruptor module would be severely overpowered in the current missile mechanics.
--- SIG ---
CSM: your support is needed ! |
|
Wannabehero
Caldari
Absolutely No Retreat
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 18:33:00 -
[41]
The best way I can think of to solve this whole mess is if there was a fifth fitting slot to ships (currently: High | Medium | Low | Rig) that was designed for non-tank specific defensive modules.
I have heard people discuss the idea of such 'utility' slots before on these forums. Things such as chaff systems, sig radius reducers, Sensor Backups, signal amps, tracking enhancers, defender launchers, smartbombs, damage controls, the current incarnation of NOS, ECM bursts, ect. could go into these slots. This would allow for a redistribution of high, mid, and low slots. Something like, say, your average Megathron would lose one low slot, but gain 2 utility slots.
A whole slew of modules could be dreamt up to go in utility slots.
This is, of course, a complete aberration of the current eve-fitting system and should not be taken as a serious suggestion, just some aimless brainstorming. Sorry for going a little off topic.
--
Don't harsh my mellow |
Yukisa
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 11:56:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Pohbis
Edited by: Pohbis on 31/07/2008 14:15:07
Originally by: Yukisa
I'm all for fixing defenders if CCP can do it. It's been what, 5 years and the damn things are still so crap. Maybe its not possible, something to do with their physics engine.
The reason nothing has been done about defenders is that missiles are crap in PvP. If people had whined about missiles being nber on nano levels, they'd been fixed a long time ago.
Missiles are "lolz" in PvP and thus a nerf would have just been adding insult to injury.
If, and that's freaking big if, missiles turn out to reach nano-levels after the patch. People will have a leg to stand on when asking for a defender boost. Until then, let's see how the numbers turn out when CCP puts the patch out.
Missiles are not crap in pvp. So you can't snipe with it, get over it and use the eagle/rohk (some of the best snipers in eve too!). In other parts of the game, missiles are fine. Torps are especially the pwn.
Again, CCP look into this. Let there be viable ewar counters to missile/drones.. then you can encourage people to use afterburners.
Without a viable way to counter these weapons, you fly with an AB setup you die horribly. |
Nah'kesh
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 13:18:00 -
[43]
So the argument appears to be:
There are two "generalised" electronic warfare mods that affect ALL weapon systems.
- ECM (Caldari) breaks lock for 20seconds, nerfed for all ships except Caldari specialist ships.
- Dampners (Gallente) reduces lock range and/or increases lock time. No longer "flavour of the month" after recent ner***e.
There is one "indirect" countermeasures system with two applications:
- Nosferatu/Neutralizers (Amar) reduces/deactivates cap powered modules (missiles are not cap powered).
Then there are two "specific" electronic warfare mods, one of which has no defensive application.
- tracking disruptors (Amarr) makes gunners cross-eyed
- target painters (Minmatar) makes little ships look like big blobs.
Then there is one non-racial specific counter-measures device:
- Guardian Anti-missile system (all races) crap effect
Then there are those that have a "chance" effect
- Smartbombs (all races) don't hurt projectiles/energy weapons, but may hurt missiles and drones.
- Speed (all races, Minmatar specific) Has provided a large dose of invulnerability until now. The issue is, just how much of an alternative to "defensive ewar" should it remain for the Minmatar?
CONCLUSION
To me, it seems Target Painters are the odd guys out.
They are not defensive ewar...
Perhaps Guardian anti-missile systems should get a buff and made Minmatar's specialist ewar, and the Target painter relegated to the common option category.
Of course, this does not suit the RP side of things as Amar (Minmatar enemy no. 1) are not renowned missile users...
|
Spartan dax
We are Legend
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 13:36:00 -
[44]
Just make TD's affect the explosion radius of the missile. Instant damage reduction and the counter for it is Target painters. No need to get all fuzzy with missile velocity and that crap.
|
Jack Forge
Gallente
Wolverine Solutions
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 17:05:00 -
[45]
interesting idea...
__________________________________________________
Stupid is as stupid does... |
Zachis
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 02:16:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Zachis on 05/08/2008 02:25:24
Just an alternate idea I had regarding anti-missile EWAR...why not have a mid-slot module that reduced firing rate of the enemy launchers?
For congruency sake with other types of EWAR, they might also come in a scripted form. Make the base module reduce firing rate and increase explosion radius, with scripts to match.
No idea on what the percentage should be, but as missiles already have flight time issues and no tracking, it seems most logical to me that this would make the most effective and consistent counter to missiles given current skill breakdown and such.
Anyhow, just tossing it out there.
|
|
| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |