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Valandril
Caldari
Exiled.
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.30 06:20:00 -
[1]
Earlier when u started with 80k sp, low standings were ok, hell u usualy got standings for higher lvl mission before you had ship to fly em.
But now we got a problem, ppl receive 800k sp but standings is none, which causes in a LOT of farming in smaller ship before they can advance (which is boring, standing farming that is).
Hell even prices are a lot cheaper so he will earn money for that ship before getting standings for it.
So my suggestion is that new players will receive some standings with theyr race faction (ie. caldari with caldari navy), lets say +2.0 so they can spend less on mindless wow-style grinding and just play instead.
This is from feedback i got from 2 friends i invited to eve lately, they both complained that theyr gaining standings too slow (even after grabbing social skills)
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Khlitouris RegusII
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Posted - 2008.07.30 08:04:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Valandril
Earlier when u started with 80k sp, low standings were ok, hell u usualy got standings for higher lvl mission before you had ship to fly em.
But now we got a problem, ppl receive 800k sp but standings is none, which causes in a LOT of farming in smaller ship before they can advance (which is boring, standing farming that is).
Hell even prices are a lot cheaper so he will earn money for that ship before getting standings for it.
So my suggestion is that new players will receive some standings with theyr race faction (ie. caldari with caldari navy), lets say +2.0 so they can spend less on mindless wow-style grinding and just play instead.
This is from feedback i got from 2 friends i invited to eve lately, they both complained that theyr gaining standings too slow (even after grabbing social skills)
Some people would like to be able to jump into a titan as soon as they start unfortunately this is a long term mmo game things are already to easy in this game and noobs get so much help now its crazy. After finishing the ten part noobie missions i had enough standing to use a lvl 2 agent tell em to complete there tutorials, only takes what 3 days to go from lvl 2 to lvl 4 missions.
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2008.07.30 08:47:00 -
[3]
Hmm. Last time I created a new alt and brought it fully through the first line of missions you get straight after the fighting/mining tutorial, I had access to level 2 agents directly. But that could be perhaps I planned my training a bit. Some basic social skills and the standing boost you get after finishing the full first line of missions were enough for me to jump directly to lvl 2s.
And as for standing grinds, I do those on level 1s and level 2s. Why? Because they are finished faster then those level 4s that can take up to 3-4 hours to complete. Meaning I will get loads more and faster storylines on the lvl 1s and 2s then on the lvl 4s.
As far as I see it the new players get already more then enough of an advantage over older players. 800k SP is a big difference to the 80k SP. Also learning skills got easier. Advanced learning don't require lvl 5 basics anymore. I don't mind that they get all that, but there has to be a line to be drawn to what a new player gets and what not. Because if that isn't done, the new players are fully BS ready before we know it, even without any time invested.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Imperial Servants
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Posted - 2008.07.30 08:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Valandril
spend less on mindless wow-style grinding and just play instead.
So doing lvl 4 missions is not grinding but lvl 1-3 is?? I guess that is all about perspective.
You should tell your friends, that EvE is not a good PvE game but a great PvP game.
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Valandril
Caldari
Exiled.
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.30 09:11:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
Originally by: Valandril
spend less on mindless wow-style grinding and just play instead.
So doing lvl 4 missions is not grinding but lvl 1-3 is?? I guess that is all about perspective.
You should tell your friends, that EvE is not a good PvE game but a great PvP game.
Farming any mission is dull and boring, but from lvl3/4 you at least get resonable reward/hour which you can't say about lvl1/2.
Quote:
Some people would like to be able to jump into a titan as soon as they start unfortunately this is a long term mmo game things are already to easy in this game and noobs get so much help now its crazy. After finishing the ten part noobie missions i had enough standing to use a lvl 2 agent tell em to complete there tutorials, only takes what 3 days to go from lvl 2 to lvl 4 missions.
What ?
Since when long term equals to long term grinding ? And to get access to lvl2 instantly u must've take at least 3 lvls of social skill, and show me newbie that actualy will pick it.
And how many h/day you must play to grind from lvl2 to lvl4 in 3 days ? I wonder where did u get that number from.
Grinding lvl1/2 may be faster standings wise, but this guys are here to earn money too and use theyr shiny new ship in new challenging mission.
Overall don't go paranoic, it will not get them into bs all of sudden (crappy bs that would be lol) nor it will make them omgwtfbbqpowerfull. All it will do is REQUIRE less grinding of low profit mission when u got skills to fly better and earn more.
So i'm still waiting to see what wrong it will bring to the game, what will it wreck.
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2008.07.30 09:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Valandril
...
So i'm still waiting to see what wrong it will bring to the game, what will it wreck.
It is the principle of giving them a finger and they end up with the whole arm ;)
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Valandril
Caldari
Exiled.
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.30 09:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ydyp Ieva
Originally by: Valandril
...
So i'm still waiting to see what wrong it will bring to the game, what will it wreck.
It is the principle of giving them a finger and they end up with the whole arm ;)
Doesn't make sense, its not a newbie requesting here but someone playing this game for couple years. So you may want to rephrase that ?
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2008.07.30 09:52:00 -
[8]
The same goes with older characters, as alts can be created fairly easy. And why would you want a higher standing on those? It is even easier to get those up the ladder when you have a main that can pull them through a few level 4s fairly quick.
I also do that with all newer players that join the same corporation as I do. Bringing their standings up to be able to get access to low quality level 3. And netting them in some isk by dragging them on a few level 4s.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.07.30 12:33:00 -
[9]
It's as simple as... you have to work for your rewards.
When you start out with 800k SP, that's reflecting the training you received in the School you just flew away from. But you haven't done anything yet to prove yourself to the government you were just hired on by.
Standings are a numerical reflecting of the reputation and respect you have earned with a corporation. Maybe we would be better off if the numbers were replaced with a sliding scale instead. Perhaps something more like "Neutral (L1), Respected (L2), Honored (L3), Revered (L4), Exalted (L5)"? 
The point being... you don't graduate high school and immediately become the night manager at Wal-Mart. You become a bag boy, rounding up carts in the parking lot, until you prove you know how to do more.
THAT'S why you start out with no standings. It's not "grinding" unless you choose to see it that way. I prefer to look at it as "Training time" and making ISK all the while.
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Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Re'taka
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.07.30 19:49:00 -
[10]
I agree with the OP, I think its unfair how new players start out with almost the ability to fly bigger ships, and how easy it is to make isk to afford these bigger ships, just so they have to wait till they grind missions into lvl 3 and 4 missions to make these big ships useful.
So, I think the best way to fix this issue is to reduce the starting SP, back to 30k where it started, that way all these new players wont have to worry about the fact they can fly cruisers but there med guns wont hit the frigs in lvl 1 missions, prob solved.
Next weeks issue: Capitals, and why I a noob should be able to start the game with them.
BTW if this seems like a troll it is, earn your fricking standings, its not that hard, a few days of training and running 1 or 2 story's nets you lvl 2 missions pretty quickly compared to what it used to take.
Why can't people just be happy for what they do have, instead of wanting what everyone else has. Really tbh, IMO newbs should stick to frigs even if they can afford and fly cruisers, or larger ships, you have to learn to play the game before you get into bigger ships where you might feel a sense of loss when they explode, then come onto the forums and whine about it because they didn't know that (insert your game feature/issue,whatever here) was the way it worked.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.07.30 20:41:00 -
[11]
Hi... I just started this game. I don't know what I'm doing... but I really like flying my Titan around these Level 4 missions! By the way, does anyone know where I can find a Villard Wheel?
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Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Caldari 5
Amarr
The Element Syndicate
Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss
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Posted - 2008.07.30 21:28:00 -
[12]
The answer to this is simple, if they are new to the game, and you are an old hat in a corp, get them in your corp and fleet them up and do some level 3 or 4 missions, you get higher rep increases per mission for level 3 and 4 than you do for 1 and 2.
Even if they aren't actually in the mission and you have them fleeted whilst you do it and then hand it in as a fleet job, they will get the rep for it.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.07.30 22:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Caldari 5
you are an old hat
Ha ha... you said "old hat". That's awesome! 
BTW... why do you look rather "Minmatar-ish", being Amarr, named Caldari?
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Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Re'taka
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.07.31 01:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Hi... I just started this game. I don't know what I'm doing... but I really like flying my Titan around these Level 4 missions! By the way, does anyone know where I can find a Villard Wheel?
Gearing up for next weeks issue??
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Irn Bruce
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Posted - 2008.07.31 01:19:00 -
[15]
Standings boost for new players would be a mistake. Apart from anything else, if you are a new player, you basically try to fly the biggest ship you can as soon as you can. There are enough 2 week olds running around in badly fitted Drakes and losing them as it is. They buy ships they can't fit properly, do missions they don't really know how to do yet, can't afford to replace the ships they lost through being unable to fly them properly, and then they buy isk because they spent all they had buying it in the first place.
Working your way up through the missions is part of the learning curve. If you don't have ISK available to you to buy a big ship, you lose less when you inevitably make noobish mistakes. By the time you've worked your way up to the appropriate level, you'll hopefully have acquired the (non character) skills to fit and use it properly in the missions you can now run. If anything I think it should take longer. At the minute it's entirely possible to be doing level 4 missions in a raven in about 3 weeks. Which just makes it all too easy to farm isk....
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Felinuszzz
Caldari
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 04:29:00 -
[16]
I don't know about you, but it takes like 3 days maybe of missioning to get to level 2. Also it will entice the player to train up social skills and understand the game more.
A base standing bonus would be nice, but your argument has several holes in it.
1) grinding level ones, which are incredibly easy, helps the new player get familiar with the EVE client and how everything works.
2) giving a base standing bonus would give those macro haulers a boost.
3) however unlikely there is going to be a post on the forums about giving a boost to older players (heck my gallente navy i think is -9, id like the boost)
4) if a player can use a raven in 1 week does that mean level 4s should be obtainable in a week? no, of course not. The time lapse from 1-2 or 2-3 gives the player more time to train up support skills.
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Joe Starbreaker
AnTi.
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.07.31 05:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Valandril
lets say +2.0 so they can spend less on mindless wow-style grinding and just play instead.
I can't imagine what you would want this for except mindless wow-style grinding. You must be "powerleveling" to the holy CNR grail if you think that new players should just skip over frigates and level 1 missions. Why would they be in the game, then, if there wasn't something good about them?
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FarosWarrior
Amarr
Sonnema
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Posted - 2008.08.01 00:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ydyp Ieva
And as for standing grinds, I do those on level 1s and level 2s. Why? Because they are finished faster then those level 4s that can take up to 3-4 hours to complete. Meaning I will get loads more and faster storylines on the lvl 1s and 2s then on the lvl 4s.
if you take 3-4 hours to complete a lvl4, which ship are you using? some soued-up cruiser? i can finish 3-4 an hour with ease. just not the bigger missions like blockade etc.
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Kiki Arnolds
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.01 02:28:00 -
[19]
This really is not a problem any actual new player will run in to... unless you pick the perfect starting character, and train the exact right skills to do level 4s ASAP, and midly active player will have level 4 access before the skills are there to do them. If you have the skills, but no agent access you are either:
1. An Alt
2. Being Taught by someone
3. Did alot of research
4. Kept skills going while you were not playing
1 - its already too easy to make a raven alt, 2 - they powergamed you, let them deal with your standings problem, or leach off thiers, 3 - you knew what you were getting in to, and your a power gamer, so some grinding should be no problem, 4 - maybe if you had played the game there wouldn't be a problem.
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2008.08.01 08:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: FarosWarrior
Originally by: Ydyp Ieva
And as for standing grinds, I do those on level 1s and level 2s. Why? Because they are finished faster then those level 4s that can take up to 3-4 hours to complete. Meaning I will get loads more and faster storylines on the lvl 1s and 2s then on the lvl 4s.
if you take 3-4 hours to complete a lvl4, which ship are you using? some soued-up cruiser? i can finish 3-4 an hour with ease. just not the bigger missions like blockade etc.
As that is why I said 'can take up to', But as it seems I get a lot of WC, Blockades and extravanganza's. It will be my luck to pull the longer missions mostly of the time. Spies, right hand of zaz and such I don't see that much.
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