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masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
28
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Posted - 2012.03.20 03:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Why is it that people want the jump clone timer to be so long?
Why not reduce it to 30 minutes or something?
Keep the timer as low as possible.
Because it removes a precious element of freedom and strategy from the game. EVE is about the freedom to incur consequences and mitigating those consequences. |
Bo Bojangles
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11
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Posted - 2012.03.20 03:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kill all jumpclones.
Refund sp vested into infomorph and retire the skill.
Halve all jumpdrive ranges (hmm but double blops).
All of a sudden Eve feels bigger!! \o/
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Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
12
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Posted - 2012.03.20 03:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Because it removes a precious element of freedom and strategy from the game. EVE is about the freedom to incur consequences and mitigating those consequences.
Still seems like a useless limitation to me.
It would be more convenient for all of EVE to have little to no timer than to have a long one.
Sure, reducing the timer will change strategy... but this is EVE, adapt or die
This isn't a time based strategy game, its live and organic. The more stoppers you put on EVE the less organic it becomes which can cause people to loose interest in the game.
This is the whole reason for standardizing the naming conventions on modules, it lowers useless complexity and makes the game more playable.
Just an example of one of those "little things" that can more easily be changed to improve everyone's gaming experience
Kind of like the idea to increase the in-warp acceleration and deceleration time so as to make warping overall faster. With the added bonus of increasing the effectiveness of ships that warp really fast
Now, what I would really like to see is transferable attribute points to allow people to temporarily collect points supplied by other players to increase training speed. But that requires quite a bit more effort and there are other things to be considered... like creating a market interface for trading attribute points
So, I say reduce the jump clone timer down to a reasonable minimum (what the server can handle and *stuff*) so as to make the game more convenient and playable for everyone.
Overall game playability trumps in-game strategy any day. |
Undistinguished Gray Suit
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.20 05:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
Another option would be some sort of system that charges up like cap. If you clone jump once a day it's about 24 hours to recharge, but if you save up for a few days you can do 2 in a row. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5698
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Posted - 2012.03.20 06:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Still seems like a useless limitation to me. That's the whole point: to reduce the usefulness of having those special clones. It's a balancing issue and as a bonus it adds a planning, prediction, and preparation element and it also adds for the odd combination of allowing for instant travel without completely trivialising long-distance travel.
It's not a useless limitation GÇö it's a limitation on usefulness, which is a very good purpose for it and it does it really wellGǪ
GǪaside from the 24h+ forward creep that the current timer creates, rather than making it a once-a-day thing. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Dirk Culliford
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.03.20 07:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Why is it that people want the jump clone timer to be so long?
Why not reduce it to 30 minutes or something?
Keep the timer as low as possible.
Null alliances that can control all of 0.0 with instant travel clones? Traders that can switch market hub instantly rather than gamble on regional differences? Completely skipping the 'size' of eve, which is already far too small.
I remember when getting even your character in a frig to deep null sec was a long and dangerous exercise, do you have any idea how easy the game now is for travel?
Anyway, rant over.
Clone timers should depend on distance. Near instantaneous if you're in the same station, CONSIDERABLY more for cross region or universe jumps. 2 days min, preferably more.
Eve is big, 'deal with it' |
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
245
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Posted - 2012.03.20 07:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
A straight 12 hours would be fantastic. Damn nature, you scary! |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1054
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Posted - 2012.03.20 07:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:I like the idea of a 36 hour jump clone timer myself. Uh, so when did you give masternerdguy your forum password?
No, this is the real me. Maybe I am masternerdguy (he'll deny it of course), but the main issue I have with jump clones is the complete trivialization of travel. Hell, we can set our medical clone to a station we have never been to, pod ourselves and appear at the target station instantaneously.
Logistics is too easy.
Fighting a war on two fronts? Simple: set the reinforcement timers to a few hours apart. Fight at one POS, then transfer to the other clone with its collection of titans in the hangar (cos dock able supercaps, y'know) and continue fighting at the other POS on the other side of the galaxy.
How does that make sense? It doesn't.
If there is to be any opportunity for smallholders, the ability for large alliances to project power needs to be severely hampered. Just because this is the way the game works now doesn't mean this is the right way for it to work. Titans used to be able to doomsday through cynos. That didn't make sense either, so it got fixed. It used to be possible to make battleships fly faster than interceptors. That didn't make sense, so it was stopped.
Where is the challenge in running a Solar Empire when moving your soldiers around is as simple as pointing a finger? Where is the opportunity to attack an exposed flank when flanks can become the front line in a matter of minutes.
Perhaps reduce the clone jump timer to 8h, but require infrastructure in place to perform the jump: something akin to fluid routers which the alliance must install to allow a station to be used for clone transfers of any kind. Medical stations might allow a medical clone to be installed, but for jump clones at least one fluid router must be installed. This provides yet another point of weakness, especially if such routers act as deadspace projectors, and can only be accessed by sub-battleship vessels.
NPC space will already have these installed. Now imagine if the NPC corp standing of 8.0+ was required to activate a jump clone installed at their stations.
Yeah, crazy idea. People would no doubt unsubscribe enmasse due to playing havoc with their play style.
Logistics is too easy. The universe is too small.
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Natasha Alfie
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
0
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Posted - 2012.03.20 07:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:Oh dear.. he is back.
JC timers should be range based.
Universe - 24h Regional - 12h Constellation - 6h Station (direct swap)
Possibly with a skill to affect timers, shouldn't impact their use for travel but would allow people to try more clones.
Also Advanced Infomorph giving +1 JC per level brining the total up to 10
I have to +1 this idea, it should make sense that the further I jump the greater the cooldown on being able to jump again. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
493
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Posted - 2012.03.20 09:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
JC timer needs to be at least one week only between jumps, if you are going to invest then you better risk it. It needs to enforce more high risk, making you fly back the long way and increasing the chances of being podded. Plus, jumping should remove the same amount of SP as if you were podded so you never make advances in your training plan . Problem solved, EVE gets more risky and harsh. |
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Bubanni
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
135
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Posted - 2012.03.20 09:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jovan Geldon wrote:So you're literally saying that it's not possible for you to wait one extra minute at the end of your playing session to jumpclone back to wherever?
Okay then
Nah the OP is actually right, Jump clone time needs to be reduced, but it should be skill related, like either 30 mins per level or 1 hour per level, so at level 5, it takes 21.5hours or 19 hours before you can jump clone again, making a new skill would be acceptable :) (we can always use another skill to train)
and those few hours would not be game breaking by any standard, as the point of jumping somewhere before ending your day, (after having played for a few hours... makes sense to be able to jump back the next day at the beginning of your play time, instead of only being able to do it again by the end of it. (if that makes any sense)...
But thats just my opinion, I havn't used my jump clones for almost a year now because I feel them limit my gameplay most of the time |
Florio
Miniature Giant Space Hamsters
23
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Posted - 2012.03.20 10:03:00 -
[42] - Quote
The OP's suggestion of a 22 hr timer makes a huge amount of sense for the reasons he gave.
Reducing the timer slightly will increase the number of players actually playing the game, as they will be able to jump in time for operations, so CCP will get more active players. This would benefit those many players with a busy RL.
CCP, this doesn't break anything, would surely be easy to implement, and would help keep players playing the game rather than ship spinning or languishing in empire just mucking about on eveboard or evemon *blush*. |
Cindy Marco
Expanse Security
63
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Posted - 2012.03.20 10:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
I have to agree. 22 hours would be great. I don't really care if its a skill based reduction, or if they simply change the timer.
I don't want short jump timers, but 22 hours isn't much of a change. And it would be great for those times you jump, and then get on a little earlier than normal the next day. |
My Postman
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
42
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Posted - 2012.03.20 11:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:I like the idea of a 36 hour jump clone timer myself.
Think about how long it takes you to recover from a heavy party. The next day you are nursing a hangover, the day after you start feeling better, it is not until the day after that you finally get back to a proper sleep schedule.
Oh, and add drawbacks which reduce the potency of all implant/hardwiringss and boosters by 20% for 4 hours. Jump clones are for people who plan tomorrow's activities, not those who see some shinier and more interesting thing to do right now.
Best.Poast.Ever.
When i was 24 i went to a party, came home at 6 am, had a shower and went to work. Jump clone timer : 1 hour. Now when i go out on weekdays, had a few drinks too much, came home at 2 am, slept for 6 hours, i-¦m dead gone in the morning, unable to work and have to take one day off, maybe recovering the NEXT day : Jump clone timer 48 hours.
Actually i like your idea, Mara! |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
135
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Posted - 2012.03.20 12:05:00 -
[45] - Quote
My Postman wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:I like the idea of a 36 hour jump clone timer myself.
Think about how long it takes you to recover from a heavy party. The next day you are nursing a hangover, the day after you start feeling better, it is not until the day after that you finally get back to a proper sleep schedule.
Oh, and add drawbacks which reduce the potency of all implant/hardwiringss and boosters by 20% for 4 hours. Jump clones are for people who plan tomorrow's activities, not those who see some shinier and more interesting thing to do right now. Best.Poast.Ever. When i was 24 i went to a party, came home at 6 am, had a shower and went to work. Jump clone timer : 1 hour. Now when i go out on weekdays, had a few drinks too much, came home at 2 am, slept for 6 hours, i-¦m dead gone in the morning, unable to work and have to take one day off, maybe recovering the NEXT day : Jump clone timer 48 hours. Actually i like your idea, Mara!
If people gotta compare jump cloneing to drinking... then I will say it really depends on how much you drink... make jump clones dynamic... the less you drink, the earlier you can drink again and still feel good... or the less distance your jump clone is away from your current location, the shorter time before you can jump clone again... if the jump clone is on the other side of the universe, it could be 24+ hours, if it is in same station or next door system, it could be 8-12 hours if it is next door region, it could be 12-18 hours, if its across 1-2(maybe 3) or more regions it could be 18-24hours |
Grukni
Shimai of New Eden
48
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Posted - 2012.03.20 12:22:00 -
[46] - Quote
Natasha Alfie wrote:IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:Oh dear.. he is back.
JC timers should be range based.
Universe - 24h Regional - 12h Constellation - 6h Station (direct swap)
Possibly with a skill to affect timers, shouldn't impact their use for travel but would allow people to try more clones.
Also Advanced Infomorph giving +1 JC per level brining the total up to 10 I have to +1 this idea, it should make sense that the further I jump the greater the cooldown on being able to jump again.
No, it doesn't make sense. Your mind doesn't suffer in the jump, it does suffer by the process of accommodating to the brain of the new clone. |
Greg Valanti
Looney Clones
25
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Posted - 2012.03.20 12:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
Maxpie wrote:Just make it once per downtime
I support this - my play sessions are not always at the same time, if I need or want to jump at the start of one often I can't until the following day. |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
135
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Posted - 2012.03.20 12:56:00 -
[48] - Quote
Grukni wrote:Natasha Alfie wrote:IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:Oh dear.. he is back.
JC timers should be range based.
Universe - 24h Regional - 12h Constellation - 6h Station (direct swap)
Possibly with a skill to affect timers, shouldn't impact their use for travel but would allow people to try more clones.
Also Advanced Infomorph giving +1 JC per level brining the total up to 10 I have to +1 this idea, it should make sense that the further I jump the greater the cooldown on being able to jump again. No, it doesn't make sense. Your mind doesn't suffer by the distance of jump, it does suffer by the process of jumping itself and accommodating to the brain of the new clone.
New clone, new brain, the next clone wouldn't have been stressed yet... (if you really want lore, we could compromise on not being able to jump back to same exact clone after that duration) |
Ghoest
278
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Posted - 2012.03.20 12:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
This is a great idea an extra 2 hours would greatly help sync the game with unpredictability of real life. Wherever You Went - Here You Are |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
28
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Posted - 2012.03.20 14:38:00 -
[50] - Quote
How about paying ISK for using jumpclones? The more you use it in a day, the more expensive it becomes. Hey presto, another ISK-sink! http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
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Morgals
Sturm Reich Sturmgrenadier Syndicate
15
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Posted - 2012.03.20 14:42:00 -
[51] - Quote
Last night i did not log into eve...I played something else mainly because last night I logged in late(kids was in an after school program so bed time was late). My corp was running some incursions and was looking for some dps to fill out the fleet(even had an extra legion for me to borrow.) so jump out kill some sancha and make some isk. Now tonight there was a CTA and I did not bother to log on knowing that i could not jump back. Even if I logged in when my JC was ready the fleet would have left and since I stayed up late last night playing was not to keen on staying up late to try to catch up to an op that was already 65% over.
Anythime a player feels it is not worth logging in you have a problem.
JC the night before is also not a good idea, because you are then stuck in the JC for your next play session. Eg)you jump out to do WH but no good sites are found or you WH is occupied, a plague seems to have struck your corp..may as well log off if the planned op is a no go since you are stuck there.. Or you jump and the next day you find you logged in a bit later than normal and your fleet has already left via titan bridge 80 jumps away and not much action in your local area...may as well log.
Looking for a mature, adult gaming community that has been active in EvE since 2004?Recruitment is open! Come join our public channel and get to know us. SGHQ-PUBLIC [url]http://sgeve.dai-coar.com/[/url] |
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
92
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Posted - 2012.03.20 15:42:00 -
[52] - Quote
E man Industries wrote:jumpclone timer reduction/~22 hours
This really does need to be a thing. 22 hour cooldown is ideal. If you argue that "uh, well 24+ hours makes those decisions mean something. SO DEEP. SO HARDCORE." you're an ass.
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Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
603
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Posted - 2012.03.20 15:47:00 -
[53] - Quote
No. Power projection is easy enough. The last thing it needs is a boost. You should be lucky jump clones actually exist. Back in my day we didn't have shoes. And there was those damn hills that only went up both ways...
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RaTTuS
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
180
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Posted - 2012.03.20 16:17:00 -
[54] - Quote
as i've said before a skill to change it 1hr / level http://eveboard.com/ub/419190933-134.png
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Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
56
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Posted - 2012.03.20 16:22:00 -
[55] - Quote
ya, smaller timers would be great. The way it is right now, if I run missions in hi-sec on Monday night because my pvp corp is slow, I also suffer on Tuesday night because of the 24 hour timer. Lowering the timer will let me play Eve differently every single night.
On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á It was a sun |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
56
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Posted - 2012.03.20 16:24:00 -
[56] - Quote
Also, this hurts newer players who can't afford to buy or train up a alt. Also hurts us as we can't make isk as much as we want to On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á It was a sun |
Borun Tal
Border Zone Combat
47
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Posted - 2012.03.20 16:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'd like to be able to use my jump clone every hour. Oh, and I want about 38 jump clones. Places to go, people to see. Anything else is just unfair!! |
Cristl
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.20 17:04:00 -
[58] - Quote
A fine idea. 22 hours or 25 hr minus 1 per level keeps the original intent, preventing teleporting at-will, but reduces/removes annoyance.
Morgals wrote: Anythime a player feels it is not worth logging in you have a problem.
Indeed. Definitely.
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Cpt Syrinx
Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
29
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Posted - 2012.03.20 18:08:00 -
[59] - Quote
Excellent idea. Those of us with busy lives would all applaud this!
masternerdguy wrote:(...)This is not a problem.
Who let you back in? And were they drinking?
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Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
12
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Posted - 2012.03.20 20:00:00 -
[60] - Quote
Tippia wrote:That's the whole point: to reduce the usefulness of having those special clones. It's a balancing solution and as a bonus it adds a planning, prediction, and preparation element and it also adds for the odd combination of allowing for instant travel without completely trivialising long-distance travel
It's not a useless limitation GÇö it's a limitation on usefulness, which is a very good purpose for it and it does it really well
GǪaside from the 24h+ forward creep that the current timer creates, rather than making it a once-a-day thing.
Right... that completely makes sense..
Lets say you go to work everyday on a bicycle, it takes you 2 hours to get there and back
Now lets say I create a vehicle that allows you to get there and back in less than 15 minutes
In order to "balance things out" the local government essentially put a large hill/mountain in the way
Now it takes 1 hour and 45 minutes to traverse the same distance in the new vehicle.
Lets say people make a little town/village on top of the mountain because people wanted to rest and talk a little. Businesses form on top of the hill/mountain
Now, let say a new individual comes into town. This individual sees the hill/mountain and questions the sanity of such a limitation.
He goes to the local townsfolk to make a suggestion. Local townsfolk, why not take full advantage of this new vehicle by removing the hill/mountain or better yet... make a tunnel through it so the original path can be used by the new vehicles
Arguments are made that the businesses on top of the hill/mountain will cease to exist. The newcomer says that its not his fault that they decided to construct businesses on top of the hill/mountain... adapt or die
"Adapt or die?", the townsfolk say. The newcomer says, oh sorry... I play EVE Online you see...
Townsfolk:
/End of story
Sure the timer limitation came with the jump clone capability, but why keep it? And its not CCP's fault for people evolving strategies with the jump clone timer limitation.
I have personally been limited by this timer before in that I couldn't pvp and pve when I wanted to (I adapted). Removal of the timer will allow for greater utility of the jump clone system even if additional costs are added. ISK isn't really a limiting factor, time is.
Removal of timer could also open up new play style possibilities that weren't considered previously.
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