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E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
223
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 22:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Jump Clone timer is very restrictive and penalizes players who do not schedule their life around eve. Logging in 30min later one night and jumping to empire means not you are not able to jump back that play session or the next one. You are out of commission for 2 play sessions rather than one if there is a variance in your log in times. That is assuming you immediately jump clone. You also are out for 2 play sessions if you JC part way though a play session.
By reducing the Jump clone timer to 22h or 30min per infomorph level you still ensure that only one jump can occur per play session. However by next play session most players will be able to jump and play as they wish.
Currently jumping to empire to conduct some business, run incursions, missions, train newer players or anything else effectively takes 2 play sessions.
Could we please get this updated?
Need more-ádecent content a casual player can access in a 1-2h play period that is actually fun and contributes to long term personal and corp goals. This applies to PvE and PvP. |
ElQuirko
Gravit Negotii Rogue Elements.
418
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 22:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
TWO HOURS EH MATE? COOL.
If we distribute pictures of people, does that mean God can file copyright claims under SOPA? |
IsTheOpOver
81
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 22:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah really.. if you are going to ask them to change it, make it 8 or 12 hrs .. not 22
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5696
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 22:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
IsTheOpOver wrote:Yeah really.. if you are going to ask them to change it, make it 8 or 12 hrs .. not 22 Nah. 22 is a far more reasonable suggestion.
The problem with the current timer is that while it looks like it's a GÇ£once a dayGÇ¥ timer, that 24 hour cooldown means you can only jump once every just-over-24 hours. It's a classic fence post error.
Reducing the timer to 22 hours, or even just 23 (hell, even 23h 55min), means that it goes from being a not-quite-every-24-hour thing to being a once-a-day thing.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
100
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 22:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Makes sense. Reason while PI originally had a 23 hour cycle before you could actually cancel. You would just end up swapping out later and later in the day with 24 hours. Hard to maintain a proper 24hour schedule, specially with work or school and sleep in-between.
Even 23 hours would be an improvement. |
Jovan Geldon
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
387
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 22:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
So it's literally impossible for you to wait one extra minute at the end of your playing session to jumpclone back to wherever?
Okay then |
Barakkus
1521
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 23:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Make jump cloning timer be 1 hour plz :) http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
110
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 23:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
This came up years ago as well, it got ignored.
We either need to log in 3 hrs earlier the day we schedule a logistical jump so it times back to our play sessions or treat is as a 48 hr timer. Giving the Infomorph Psychology skill a 5% reduction per level was also suggested but again, it came and went and nothing was done. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
100
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 23:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jovan Geldon wrote:So you're literally saying that it's not possible for you to wait one extra minute at the end of your playing session to jumpclone back to wherever?
Okay then
The point, its a schedule crawl that cant be avoided day after day. You will always lose a minute if not more. Eventually screwing up a whole day of play time due to schedule overlapping real life. Troubling for those that travel between clones often (as in daily). Now I don't move that much myself. Far from it. Yet this seems an appropriate 10000 papercuts issue. 20 to 23 hour wait still plenty of down time from hopping quickly everywhere. Slower than a super fleet going across the universe for sure. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
24
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 23:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Jovan Geldon wrote:So you're literally saying that it's not possible for you to wait one extra minute at the end of your playing session to jumpclone back to wherever?
Okay then The point, its a schedule crawl that cant be avoided day after day. You will always lose a minute if not more. Eventually screwing up a whole day of play time due to schedule overlapping real life. Troubling for those that travel between clones often (as in daily). Now I don't move that much myself. Far from it. Yet this seems an appropriate 10000 papercuts issue. 20 to 23 hour wait still plenty of down time from hopping quickly everywhere. Slower than a super fleet going across the universe for sure.
It crawls an hour forward every 60 days. Then you sleep through it and are good for another 60. This is not a problem. |
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stoicfaux
796
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 00:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
+1
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
|
Andski
GoonWaffe
3229
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 00:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:It crawls an hour forward every 60 days. Then you sleep through it and are good for another 60. This is not a problem.
shut up "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
413
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 00:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
i think it should 16 hours. jump into clone to pvp or w/epossibly on the other side of the universe get finished, penatly for clone jump is usually no implants, or implants meant for combat not learning skills faster. ok fine next day... still going on so either you go pvp, or try to pve or do something else while u wait.
now lets say you were on a pvp roam and you finished and went to bed immediatly you would have to stay up until you normally go to bed just to jump back to normal clone or be stuck for another day at slower training, it might not seem like much but i its a weekly occurence it adds up. either way shorter jump timers = better. |
Heimdallofasgard
Apex Clan
128
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 01:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
+1
I came in ready for a flame war and then found myself sort of agreeing. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1050
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 01:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
I like the idea of a 36 hour jump clone timer myself.
Think about how long it takes you to recover from a heavy party. The next day you are nursing a hangover, the day after you start feeling better, it is not until the day after that you finally get back to a proper sleep schedule.
Oh, and add drawbacks which reduce the potency of all implant/hardwiringss and boosters by 20% for 4 hours. Jump clones are for people who plan tomorrow's activities, not those who see some shinier and more interesting thing to do right now. |
Andski
GoonWaffe
3229
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 01:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Oh, and add drawbacks which reduce the potency of all implant/hardwiringss and boosters by 20% for 4 hours. Jump clones are for people who plan tomorrow's activities, not those who see some shinier and more interesting thing to do right now.
nope "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1007
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 01:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:TWO HOURS EH MATE? COOL.
It makes a MUCH bigger difference than you'd think. As is, anyone who jumps around frequently will find their timer being pushed later and later into the night unless they religiously log in at the same time. Some of us have lives. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
27
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 01:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:ElQuirko wrote:TWO HOURS EH MATE? COOL. It makes a MUCH bigger difference than you'd think. As is, anyone who jumps around frequently will find their timer being pushed later and later into the night unless they religiously log in at the same time. Some of us have lives.
And I'm all for saving those lives but we're about to go way beyond that. |
Zesoft
Silverheart Clan
40
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 01:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Free jumps every 24h. Charge extra proportional to the time remaining for extra jumps within 24h. |
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
101
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 01:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
Oh dear.. he is back. |
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
58
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 01:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Those two hours make a gigantic difference. If I roam/mission at 0000-0200 and then JC out, when I log in the next day at 0000 I will not be able to JC back to roam/mission for 2 hours. So the 24 hrs timer really results in being stuck for 2 days rather than 1 day. So +1 to a slightly reduced JC timer. |
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
475
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 01:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
I say we should be able to jump clone at will, its my brain, if I want to turn it to mush, I should be allowed to. Age old argument, others telling me what I can and can't do with my body. Amirite? Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
547
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 01:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
-2 hours per Informorph Psychology skill level
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Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
254
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 01:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
I rhink....
using your jump clones should never have a time limit.
but that it should cost isk, based on the number of light years being jumped.
and that each successive jump between the same two downtimes should increase in cost exponentially.
isk-sink. Save the Miners! |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1092
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 02:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ris Dnalor wrote:I rhink....
using your jump clones should never have a time limit.
but that it should cost isk, based on the number of light years being jumped.
I like this.
Quote:each successive jump between the same two downtimes should increase in price. 1st jump - 1m isk 2nd jump - 10m isk 3rd jump - 100m isk 4th jump - 1b isk and so on. isk-sink.
WTF m8?
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1092
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 02:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:I like the idea of a 36 hour jump clone timer myself.
Think about how long it takes you to recover from a heavy party. The next day you are nursing a hangover, the day after you start feeling better, it is not until the day after that you finally get back to a proper sleep schedule.
Oh, and add drawbacks which reduce the potency of all implant/hardwiringss and boosters by 20% for 4 hours. Jump clones are for people who plan tomorrow's activities, not those who see some shinier and more interesting thing to do right now.
Uh, so when did you give masternerdguy your forum password?
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Keen Fallsword
Billionaires Club BLACK-MARK
42
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 02:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Or maybe just add option with buy time ? Like 50mil for ..... I dont know -5 hrs. It can be good for economy :D |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 02:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'm ok with the 23h idea. |
Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
54
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 02:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
Just make it once per downtime |
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 03:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Why is it that people want the jump clone timer to be so long?
Why not reduce it to 30 minutes or something?
Keep the timer as low as possible.
|
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masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
28
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 03:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Why is it that people want the jump clone timer to be so long?
Why not reduce it to 30 minutes or something?
Keep the timer as low as possible.
Because it removes a precious element of freedom and strategy from the game. EVE is about the freedom to incur consequences and mitigating those consequences. |
Bo Bojangles
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 03:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kill all jumpclones.
Refund sp vested into infomorph and retire the skill.
Halve all jumpdrive ranges (hmm but double blops).
All of a sudden Eve feels bigger!! \o/
|
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 03:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Because it removes a precious element of freedom and strategy from the game. EVE is about the freedom to incur consequences and mitigating those consequences.
Still seems like a useless limitation to me.
It would be more convenient for all of EVE to have little to no timer than to have a long one.
Sure, reducing the timer will change strategy... but this is EVE, adapt or die
This isn't a time based strategy game, its live and organic. The more stoppers you put on EVE the less organic it becomes which can cause people to loose interest in the game.
This is the whole reason for standardizing the naming conventions on modules, it lowers useless complexity and makes the game more playable.
Just an example of one of those "little things" that can more easily be changed to improve everyone's gaming experience
Kind of like the idea to increase the in-warp acceleration and deceleration time so as to make warping overall faster. With the added bonus of increasing the effectiveness of ships that warp really fast
Now, what I would really like to see is transferable attribute points to allow people to temporarily collect points supplied by other players to increase training speed. But that requires quite a bit more effort and there are other things to be considered... like creating a market interface for trading attribute points
So, I say reduce the jump clone timer down to a reasonable minimum (what the server can handle and *stuff*) so as to make the game more convenient and playable for everyone.
Overall game playability trumps in-game strategy any day. |
Undistinguished Gray Suit
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 05:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
Another option would be some sort of system that charges up like cap. If you clone jump once a day it's about 24 hours to recharge, but if you save up for a few days you can do 2 in a row. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5698
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 06:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Still seems like a useless limitation to me. That's the whole point: to reduce the usefulness of having those special clones. It's a balancing issue and as a bonus it adds a planning, prediction, and preparation element and it also adds for the odd combination of allowing for instant travel without completely trivialising long-distance travel.
It's not a useless limitation GÇö it's a limitation on usefulness, which is a very good purpose for it and it does it really wellGǪ
GǪaside from the 24h+ forward creep that the current timer creates, rather than making it a once-a-day thing. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Dirk Culliford
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 07:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Why is it that people want the jump clone timer to be so long?
Why not reduce it to 30 minutes or something?
Keep the timer as low as possible.
Null alliances that can control all of 0.0 with instant travel clones? Traders that can switch market hub instantly rather than gamble on regional differences? Completely skipping the 'size' of eve, which is already far too small.
I remember when getting even your character in a frig to deep null sec was a long and dangerous exercise, do you have any idea how easy the game now is for travel?
Anyway, rant over.
Clone timers should depend on distance. Near instantaneous if you're in the same station, CONSIDERABLY more for cross region or universe jumps. 2 days min, preferably more.
Eve is big, 'deal with it' |
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
245
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 07:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
A straight 12 hours would be fantastic. Damn nature, you scary! |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1054
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 07:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:I like the idea of a 36 hour jump clone timer myself. Uh, so when did you give masternerdguy your forum password?
No, this is the real me. Maybe I am masternerdguy (he'll deny it of course), but the main issue I have with jump clones is the complete trivialization of travel. Hell, we can set our medical clone to a station we have never been to, pod ourselves and appear at the target station instantaneously.
Logistics is too easy.
Fighting a war on two fronts? Simple: set the reinforcement timers to a few hours apart. Fight at one POS, then transfer to the other clone with its collection of titans in the hangar (cos dock able supercaps, y'know) and continue fighting at the other POS on the other side of the galaxy.
How does that make sense? It doesn't.
If there is to be any opportunity for smallholders, the ability for large alliances to project power needs to be severely hampered. Just because this is the way the game works now doesn't mean this is the right way for it to work. Titans used to be able to doomsday through cynos. That didn't make sense either, so it got fixed. It used to be possible to make battleships fly faster than interceptors. That didn't make sense, so it was stopped.
Where is the challenge in running a Solar Empire when moving your soldiers around is as simple as pointing a finger? Where is the opportunity to attack an exposed flank when flanks can become the front line in a matter of minutes.
Perhaps reduce the clone jump timer to 8h, but require infrastructure in place to perform the jump: something akin to fluid routers which the alliance must install to allow a station to be used for clone transfers of any kind. Medical stations might allow a medical clone to be installed, but for jump clones at least one fluid router must be installed. This provides yet another point of weakness, especially if such routers act as deadspace projectors, and can only be accessed by sub-battleship vessels.
NPC space will already have these installed. Now imagine if the NPC corp standing of 8.0+ was required to activate a jump clone installed at their stations.
Yeah, crazy idea. People would no doubt unsubscribe enmasse due to playing havoc with their play style.
Logistics is too easy. The universe is too small.
|
Natasha Alfie
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 07:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:Oh dear.. he is back.
JC timers should be range based.
Universe - 24h Regional - 12h Constellation - 6h Station (direct swap)
Possibly with a skill to affect timers, shouldn't impact their use for travel but would allow people to try more clones.
Also Advanced Infomorph giving +1 JC per level brining the total up to 10
I have to +1 this idea, it should make sense that the further I jump the greater the cooldown on being able to jump again. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
493
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 09:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
JC timer needs to be at least one week only between jumps, if you are going to invest then you better risk it. It needs to enforce more high risk, making you fly back the long way and increasing the chances of being podded. Plus, jumping should remove the same amount of SP as if you were podded so you never make advances in your training plan . Problem solved, EVE gets more risky and harsh. |
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Bubanni
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
135
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 09:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jovan Geldon wrote:So you're literally saying that it's not possible for you to wait one extra minute at the end of your playing session to jumpclone back to wherever?
Okay then
Nah the OP is actually right, Jump clone time needs to be reduced, but it should be skill related, like either 30 mins per level or 1 hour per level, so at level 5, it takes 21.5hours or 19 hours before you can jump clone again, making a new skill would be acceptable :) (we can always use another skill to train)
and those few hours would not be game breaking by any standard, as the point of jumping somewhere before ending your day, (after having played for a few hours... makes sense to be able to jump back the next day at the beginning of your play time, instead of only being able to do it again by the end of it. (if that makes any sense)...
But thats just my opinion, I havn't used my jump clones for almost a year now because I feel them limit my gameplay most of the time |
Florio
Miniature Giant Space Hamsters
23
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 10:03:00 -
[42] - Quote
The OP's suggestion of a 22 hr timer makes a huge amount of sense for the reasons he gave.
Reducing the timer slightly will increase the number of players actually playing the game, as they will be able to jump in time for operations, so CCP will get more active players. This would benefit those many players with a busy RL.
CCP, this doesn't break anything, would surely be easy to implement, and would help keep players playing the game rather than ship spinning or languishing in empire just mucking about on eveboard or evemon *blush*. |
Cindy Marco
Expanse Security
63
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 10:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
I have to agree. 22 hours would be great. I don't really care if its a skill based reduction, or if they simply change the timer.
I don't want short jump timers, but 22 hours isn't much of a change. And it would be great for those times you jump, and then get on a little earlier than normal the next day. |
My Postman
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 11:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:I like the idea of a 36 hour jump clone timer myself.
Think about how long it takes you to recover from a heavy party. The next day you are nursing a hangover, the day after you start feeling better, it is not until the day after that you finally get back to a proper sleep schedule.
Oh, and add drawbacks which reduce the potency of all implant/hardwiringss and boosters by 20% for 4 hours. Jump clones are for people who plan tomorrow's activities, not those who see some shinier and more interesting thing to do right now.
Best.Poast.Ever.
When i was 24 i went to a party, came home at 6 am, had a shower and went to work. Jump clone timer : 1 hour. Now when i go out on weekdays, had a few drinks too much, came home at 2 am, slept for 6 hours, i-¦m dead gone in the morning, unable to work and have to take one day off, maybe recovering the NEXT day : Jump clone timer 48 hours.
Actually i like your idea, Mara! |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
135
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 12:05:00 -
[45] - Quote
My Postman wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:I like the idea of a 36 hour jump clone timer myself.
Think about how long it takes you to recover from a heavy party. The next day you are nursing a hangover, the day after you start feeling better, it is not until the day after that you finally get back to a proper sleep schedule.
Oh, and add drawbacks which reduce the potency of all implant/hardwiringss and boosters by 20% for 4 hours. Jump clones are for people who plan tomorrow's activities, not those who see some shinier and more interesting thing to do right now. Best.Poast.Ever. When i was 24 i went to a party, came home at 6 am, had a shower and went to work. Jump clone timer : 1 hour. Now when i go out on weekdays, had a few drinks too much, came home at 2 am, slept for 6 hours, i-¦m dead gone in the morning, unable to work and have to take one day off, maybe recovering the NEXT day : Jump clone timer 48 hours. Actually i like your idea, Mara!
If people gotta compare jump cloneing to drinking... then I will say it really depends on how much you drink... make jump clones dynamic... the less you drink, the earlier you can drink again and still feel good... or the less distance your jump clone is away from your current location, the shorter time before you can jump clone again... if the jump clone is on the other side of the universe, it could be 24+ hours, if it is in same station or next door system, it could be 8-12 hours if it is next door region, it could be 12-18 hours, if its across 1-2(maybe 3) or more regions it could be 18-24hours |
Grukni
Shimai of New Eden
48
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 12:22:00 -
[46] - Quote
Natasha Alfie wrote:IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:Oh dear.. he is back.
JC timers should be range based.
Universe - 24h Regional - 12h Constellation - 6h Station (direct swap)
Possibly with a skill to affect timers, shouldn't impact their use for travel but would allow people to try more clones.
Also Advanced Infomorph giving +1 JC per level brining the total up to 10 I have to +1 this idea, it should make sense that the further I jump the greater the cooldown on being able to jump again.
No, it doesn't make sense. Your mind doesn't suffer in the jump, it does suffer by the process of accommodating to the brain of the new clone. |
Greg Valanti
Looney Clones
25
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 12:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
Maxpie wrote:Just make it once per downtime
I support this - my play sessions are not always at the same time, if I need or want to jump at the start of one often I can't until the following day. |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
135
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 12:56:00 -
[48] - Quote
Grukni wrote:Natasha Alfie wrote:IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:Oh dear.. he is back.
JC timers should be range based.
Universe - 24h Regional - 12h Constellation - 6h Station (direct swap)
Possibly with a skill to affect timers, shouldn't impact their use for travel but would allow people to try more clones.
Also Advanced Infomorph giving +1 JC per level brining the total up to 10 I have to +1 this idea, it should make sense that the further I jump the greater the cooldown on being able to jump again. No, it doesn't make sense. Your mind doesn't suffer by the distance of jump, it does suffer by the process of jumping itself and accommodating to the brain of the new clone.
New clone, new brain, the next clone wouldn't have been stressed yet... (if you really want lore, we could compromise on not being able to jump back to same exact clone after that duration) |
Ghoest
278
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 12:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
This is a great idea an extra 2 hours would greatly help sync the game with unpredictability of real life. Wherever You Went - Here You Are |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
28
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 14:38:00 -
[50] - Quote
How about paying ISK for using jumpclones? The more you use it in a day, the more expensive it becomes. Hey presto, another ISK-sink! http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
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Morgals
Sturm Reich Sturmgrenadier Syndicate
15
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 14:42:00 -
[51] - Quote
Last night i did not log into eve...I played something else mainly because last night I logged in late(kids was in an after school program so bed time was late). My corp was running some incursions and was looking for some dps to fill out the fleet(even had an extra legion for me to borrow.) so jump out kill some sancha and make some isk. Now tonight there was a CTA and I did not bother to log on knowing that i could not jump back. Even if I logged in when my JC was ready the fleet would have left and since I stayed up late last night playing was not to keen on staying up late to try to catch up to an op that was already 65% over.
Anythime a player feels it is not worth logging in you have a problem.
JC the night before is also not a good idea, because you are then stuck in the JC for your next play session. Eg)you jump out to do WH but no good sites are found or you WH is occupied, a plague seems to have struck your corp..may as well log off if the planned op is a no go since you are stuck there.. Or you jump and the next day you find you logged in a bit later than normal and your fleet has already left via titan bridge 80 jumps away and not much action in your local area...may as well log.
Looking for a mature, adult gaming community that has been active in EvE since 2004?Recruitment is open! Come join our public channel and get to know us. SGHQ-PUBLIC [url]http://sgeve.dai-coar.com/[/url] |
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
92
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 15:42:00 -
[52] - Quote
E man Industries wrote:jumpclone timer reduction/~22 hours
This really does need to be a thing. 22 hour cooldown is ideal. If you argue that "uh, well 24+ hours makes those decisions mean something. SO DEEP. SO HARDCORE." you're an ass.
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Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
603
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 15:47:00 -
[53] - Quote
No. Power projection is easy enough. The last thing it needs is a boost. You should be lucky jump clones actually exist. Back in my day we didn't have shoes. And there was those damn hills that only went up both ways...
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RaTTuS
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
180
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 16:17:00 -
[54] - Quote
as i've said before a skill to change it 1hr / level http://eveboard.com/ub/419190933-134.png
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Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
56
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 16:22:00 -
[55] - Quote
ya, smaller timers would be great. The way it is right now, if I run missions in hi-sec on Monday night because my pvp corp is slow, I also suffer on Tuesday night because of the 24 hour timer. Lowering the timer will let me play Eve differently every single night.
On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á It was a sun |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
56
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 16:24:00 -
[56] - Quote
Also, this hurts newer players who can't afford to buy or train up a alt. Also hurts us as we can't make isk as much as we want to On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á It was a sun |
Borun Tal
Border Zone Combat
47
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 16:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'd like to be able to use my jump clone every hour. Oh, and I want about 38 jump clones. Places to go, people to see. Anything else is just unfair!! |
Cristl
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 17:04:00 -
[58] - Quote
A fine idea. 22 hours or 25 hr minus 1 per level keeps the original intent, preventing teleporting at-will, but reduces/removes annoyance.
Morgals wrote: Anythime a player feels it is not worth logging in you have a problem.
Indeed. Definitely.
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Cpt Syrinx
Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
29
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 18:08:00 -
[59] - Quote
Excellent idea. Those of us with busy lives would all applaud this!
masternerdguy wrote:(...)This is not a problem.
Who let you back in? And were they drinking?
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Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 20:00:00 -
[60] - Quote
Tippia wrote:That's the whole point: to reduce the usefulness of having those special clones. It's a balancing solution and as a bonus it adds a planning, prediction, and preparation element and it also adds for the odd combination of allowing for instant travel without completely trivialising long-distance travel
It's not a useless limitation GÇö it's a limitation on usefulness, which is a very good purpose for it and it does it really well
GǪaside from the 24h+ forward creep that the current timer creates, rather than making it a once-a-day thing.
Right... that completely makes sense..
Lets say you go to work everyday on a bicycle, it takes you 2 hours to get there and back
Now lets say I create a vehicle that allows you to get there and back in less than 15 minutes
In order to "balance things out" the local government essentially put a large hill/mountain in the way
Now it takes 1 hour and 45 minutes to traverse the same distance in the new vehicle.
Lets say people make a little town/village on top of the mountain because people wanted to rest and talk a little. Businesses form on top of the hill/mountain
Now, let say a new individual comes into town. This individual sees the hill/mountain and questions the sanity of such a limitation.
He goes to the local townsfolk to make a suggestion. Local townsfolk, why not take full advantage of this new vehicle by removing the hill/mountain or better yet... make a tunnel through it so the original path can be used by the new vehicles
Arguments are made that the businesses on top of the hill/mountain will cease to exist. The newcomer says that its not his fault that they decided to construct businesses on top of the hill/mountain... adapt or die
"Adapt or die?", the townsfolk say. The newcomer says, oh sorry... I play EVE Online you see...
Townsfolk:
/End of story
Sure the timer limitation came with the jump clone capability, but why keep it? And its not CCP's fault for people evolving strategies with the jump clone timer limitation.
I have personally been limited by this timer before in that I couldn't pvp and pve when I wanted to (I adapted). Removal of the timer will allow for greater utility of the jump clone system even if additional costs are added. ISK isn't really a limiting factor, time is.
Removal of timer could also open up new play style possibilities that weren't considered previously.
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Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
180
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 20:12:00 -
[61] - Quote
22 hours sounds good to me.
I'd prefer it if it was even shorter, but there's way too many folks who prefer painful choices in EvE to get that by the devs. If you aren't suffering somehow, you just aren't playing the game right. |
Cpt Syrinx
Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
29
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 20:42:00 -
[62] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Tippia wrote:That's the whole point: to reduce the usefulness of having those special clones. It's a balancing solution and as a bonus it adds a planning, prediction, and preparation element and it also adds for the odd combination of allowing for instant travel without completely trivialising long-distance travel
It's not a useless limitation GÇö it's a limitation on usefulness, which is a very good purpose for it and it does it really well
GǪaside from the 24h+ forward creep that the current timer creates, rather than making it a once-a-day thing. Right... that completely makes sense.. Lets say you go to work everyday on a bicycle, it takes you 2 hours to get there and back Now lets say I create a vehicle that allows you to get there and back in less than 15 minutes In order to "balance things out" the local government essentially put a large hill/mountain in the way Now it takes 1 hour and 45 minutes to traverse the same distance in the new vehicle. Lets say people make a little town/village on top of the mountain because people wanted to rest and talk a little. Businesses form on top of the hill/mountain Now, let say a new individual comes into town. This individual sees the hill/mountain and questions the sanity of such a limitation. He goes to the local townsfolk to make a suggestion. Local townsfolk, why not take full advantage of this new vehicle by removing the hill/mountain or better yet... make a tunnel through it so the original path can be used by the new vehicles Arguments are made that the businesses on top of the hill/mountain will cease to exist. The newcomer says that its not his fault that they decided to construct businesses on top of the hill/mountain... adapt or die "Adapt or die?", the townsfolk say. The newcomer says, oh sorry... I play EVE Online you see... Townsfolk: /End of story Sure the timer limitation came with the jump clone capability, but why keep it? And its not CCP's fault for people evolving strategies with the jump clone timer limitation. I have personally been limited by this timer before in that I couldn't pvp and pve when I wanted to (I adapted). Removal of the timer will allow for greater utility of the jump clone system even if additional costs are added. ISK isn't really a limiting factor, time is. Removal of timer could also open up new play style possibilities that weren't considered previously.
life is no game
eve is
also, this is a game about spaceships, lets not make the spaceships obsolete allright? |
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 21:11:00 -
[63] - Quote
Cpt Syrinx wrote:life is no game
eve is
also, this is a game about spaceships, lets not make the spaceships obsolete allright?
Hypothetical situation, not life.
Removing the timer does not make spaceships obsolete as it allows us to use them more in most cases.
Example: Removing the timer will allow someone to rat in between CTA's.
Before timer change: Emergency CTA everyone get over to the staging system right now. Can't, still got 12 hours to go on my timer and its 54 jumps to get to you guys... I probably won't make it.
After timer change: Emergency CTA everyone get over to the staging system right now. Give me 10 minutes, I have to dock up, jump clone, and use the bathroom.
Just trying to make the game more playable. Have your game and play it too. |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 00:41:00 -
[64] - Quote
Natasha Alfie wrote:IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:Oh dear.. he is back.
JC timers should be range based.
Universe - 24h Regional - 12h Constellation - 6h Station (direct swap)
Possibly with a skill to affect timers, shouldn't impact their use for travel but would allow people to try more clones.
Also Advanced Infomorph giving +1 JC per level brining the total up to 10 I have to +1 this idea, it should make sense that the further I jump the greater the cooldown on being able to jump again.
And being able to swap between clones adapted to a specific ships 30 times a day? I'm not sure of liking that idea. |
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 01:18:00 -
[65] - Quote
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:And being able to swap between clones adapted to a specific ships 30 times a day? I'm not sure of liking that idea.
That actually sounds kind of fun.
I am the monkey... I can go anywhere...
Wait... I just killed you at the other end of the universe...
I'm back
Stalker...
You know it |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
101
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 01:24:00 -
[66] - Quote
I'd support adding a x5 skill that reduces the timer by 1/2 hr per level. But ya, nothing too extreme (unless it's a same-station clone swap, in which case I'd be fine with them eliminating the timer.) I'd also be ok with a 10M ISK sink per hour or part thereof you want to reduce your timer by. |
JamesCLK
Lone Star Exploration Lone Star Partners
75
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 03:05:00 -
[67] - Quote
Advanced Infomorph Psychology [rank 4]: 5% reduction in cooldown between clone jumps per level. Last level takes ~19 days to train (not counting attributes). At level 5 your timer is down to 18 hours, or 19h12m at level 4.
The reduction is enough to matter to those who need to clone jump often, and those who don't can either ignore it or just train it the first few levels. 18 hours is still a significant ammount of time and longer than the usual 16 hours people are awake for; however it means you can jump clone one afternoon and jump back the next morning.
Profit? |
Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
25
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 04:39:00 -
[68] - Quote
Implement a new skill, something like "Infomorph Management" or so. Every skillpoint in it reduces cooldown for the next clone jump by 1 hour. Problem solved and something useful to train. For your attention! Market order modification fee (anti-botting, more interesting trading) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78351 |
ChuckNorris InSpace
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 05:35:00 -
[69] - Quote
advanced infomorph psychology. have it grant a significant % cooldown reduction bonus. make it a rank 12-14 skill and suitably expensive say 120m or so.
speaking from experience, a major mitigating factor of emergent pvp scenarios is JC limitations. if I was able to flip between clones every 5 hrs (maxed out) say, I would be far more likely to ship up and go take risks in null sec.
any complaints about people moving around too freely are clearly bs in light of the current medical/death clone mechanics.
many players who covet just one 'main' character (most likely to be high sec dwellers) are loathe to risk their +4/+5 sets in null. many more, like myself, don't care about 100m isk, but do care about possibly losing training time on long skills by being more or less required to run empty clones 24/7 due to constantly being in possible pod-death scenarios. ccp should know that pvp is often scheduled to an extent and more than one encounter a day for an active player is a highly realistic expectation for anyone in a pvp corp.
12-24 hrs is arbitrarily restrictive and, imo, counter to the ethos of eve: that is, through skill training you determine what you can do and how well, within a fixed framework.
if your design concern is that this might adversely impact on isk sunk in implants and cascade in to LP market implications then think about all the extra slave sets people would buy and how many additional clones people would pimp out and scatter around the place. not to mention the roi of giving people yet another 30 day plus 'essential' skill to train on all their pvp alts.
this would be top of my list of 'little things' if I gave a ****. |
Dez Affinity
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
83
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 05:59:00 -
[70] - Quote
I have no problem with reducing JC timer by up to 2 hours. It's not a big deal and will probably help people so...
Making it sub 12h though is a bad idea. |
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ChuckNorris InSpace
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 07:14:00 -
[71] - Quote
Dez Affinity wrote:I have no problem with reducing JC timer by up to 2 hours. It's not a big deal and will probably help people so...
Making it sub 12h though is a bad idea.
i'm wondering why you think so? surely its just another 'punishment' for pvpers to soak up along with the cost and learning curves, also being forced to train significantly slower over the course of their careers as well sucks ass. that or pay billions a month in implant replacement costs (which scrubs like me cant afford fo sure). |
Signal11th
439
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 09:48:00 -
[72] - Quote
For me anywhere from 18-22 hours would be fine. Would like to see a skill to shave some time off the JC timers. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Tivookz
North Star Networks The Kadeshi
29
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 10:05:00 -
[73] - Quote
I completely agree with this.
Makes perfect sense and I dont know how many times I've been angry about this. |
Junglistbeast
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 10:18:00 -
[74] - Quote
People just need to plan thier time better.. there is no need to lower the timer. And doing so is just going to make it easier for large alliances to project thier power. Sure it's frustrating at times... but this isn't WOW it isn't supposed to be easy or all rainbows.
You PVE 57 jumps from your corp?? why? Too hard to PVE in null or low?
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ChuckNorris InSpace
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 10:53:00 -
[75] - Quote
Junglistbeast wrote: You PVE 57 jumps from your corp?? why? Too hard to PVE in null or low?
I've never used a jump clone to actually move anywhere. I am deployed in a system, I have all my clones around the constellation with various implant sets in. Or did. After a while I stopped bothering with implants because getting podded every day made it pretty expensive to keep even a set of +3's in. JC'ing is not that useful in practical terms as it currently stands, because I still lose 24 hrs of training. So I stopped bothering ages ago and just fly around in a med clone most of the time.
am I the only person doing that? not sure tbh. but jump clones as a mode of transport? why? you can just death clone.
as someone who roams in null frequently in gangs, fleets etc. my only use for jumpclones are to keep a set of implants to hand, or anywhere really, for longer skill training during periods of semi inactivity. or for specific low/high grade gunnery/missile sets etc.
this kinda means for me, with my play style, I would really like a way to flip clones more frequently to stop missing out on months of training time each year due to flying around in an empty/disposable clone most of the time. |
JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
60
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 11:07:00 -
[76] - Quote
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:Oh dear.. he is back.
JC timers should be range based.
Universe - 24h Regional - 12h Constellation - 6h Station (direct swap)
Possibly with a skill to affect timers, shouldn't impact their use for travel but would allow people to try more clones.
Also Advanced Infomorph giving +1 JC per level brining the total up to 10
More like
Universe - 96h Regional - 48h Constellation - 2h Station (direct swap)
Nerf force projection blob will diminish naturally.
If someone whines he has to do 3457839 jumps to get into the fight it his own fault for blueing everything around. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
226
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 11:14:00 -
[77] - Quote
Tippia wrote:IsTheOpOver wrote:Yeah really.. if you are going to ask them to change it, make it 8 or 12 hrs .. not 22 Nah. 22 is a far more reasonable suggestion. The problem with the current timer is that while it looks like it's a GÇ£once a dayGÇ¥ timer, that 24 hour cooldown means you can only jump once every just-over-24 hours. It's a classic fence post error. Reducing the timer to 22 hours, or even just 23 (hell, even 23h 55min), means that it goes from being a not-quite-every-24-hour thing to being a once-a-day thing.
What's so unreasonable about an 8 or 12 hour cool down?
reducing it to 22 or 23 hours sounds utterly pointless to me and wouldn't benefit as many people as an 8 hour cool down would. |
N3oXr2ii
the united Negative Ten.
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 11:24:00 -
[78] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:I like the idea of a 36 hour jump clone timer myself. Uh, so when did you give masternerdguy your forum password? No, this is the real me. Maybe I am masternerdguy (he'll deny it of course), but the main issue I have with jump clones is the complete trivialization of travel. Hell, we can set our medical clone to a station we have never been to, pod ourselves and appear at the target station instantaneously. Logistics is too easy. Fighting a war on two fronts? Simple: set the reinforcement timers to a few hours apart. Fight at one POS, then transfer to the other clone with its collection of titans in the hangar (cos dock able supercaps, y'know) and continue fighting at the other POS on the other side of the galaxy. How does that make sense? It doesn't. If there is to be any opportunity for smallholders, the ability for large alliances to project power needs to be severely hampered. Just because this is the way the game works now doesn't mean this is the right way for it to work. Titans used to be able to doomsday through cynos. That didn't make sense either, so it got fixed. It used to be possible to make battleships fly faster than interceptors. That didn't make sense, so it was stopped. Where is the challenge in running a Solar Empire when moving your soldiers around is as simple as pointing a finger? Where is the opportunity to attack an exposed flank when flanks can become the front line in a matter of minutes. Perhaps reduce the clone jump timer to 8h, but require infrastructure in place to perform the jump: something akin to fluid routers which the alliance must install to allow a station to be used for clone transfers of any kind. Medical stations might allow a medical clone to be installed, but for jump clones at least one fluid router must be installed. This provides yet another point of weakness, especially if such routers act as deadspace projectors, and can only be accessed by sub-battleship vessels. NPC space will already have these installed. Now imagine if the NPC corp standing of 8.0+ was required to activate a jump clone installed at their stations. Yeah, crazy idea. People would no doubt unsubscribe enmasse due to playing havoc with their play style. Logistics is too easy. The universe is too small.
This really does make sense but lets not increase the timer any more 24 hours is engough
Undistinguished Gray Suit wrote:Another option would be some sort of system that charges up like cap. If you clone jump once a day it's about 24 hours to recharge, but if you save up for a few days you can do 2 in a row.
this is a good idea but it would need a cap like a max of 2
also it would be nice if u could keep 2 clones n a station and jump between then at will or for isk
i hate waiting between slaves and crystals -áplease don't take out your real life issues out on me not my fault if your fat ugly bullied divorced broke or-á have a pimple thats big and red maybe your mom wants you out her basement or a jock has gave you a wedgie your flames only make me laff at your sadness your hidden tears are as juicy as the whiners i blob or the blobs i hide-áfrom |
Cass Lie
State War Academy Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 13:19:00 -
[79] - Quote
I also heavily agree. 22 hours sounds like a good balance. In a day and age when you have massive supercapital fleets able to cross the cluster in 5 minutes, shaving 2 hours off a jc timer will hardly change much in regards to force projection and it makes life much easier. I also can't count the number of times when I couldn't be bothered to log in due to a ticking jc timer. |
Mashie Saldana
Veto. Veto Corp
427
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 13:42:00 -
[80] - Quote
Remove the JC timer and add an AUR fee each time you jump instead. Dominique Vasilkovsky Mashie Saldana Monica Foulkes |
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JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 15:27:00 -
[81] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Remove the JC timer and add an AUR fee each time you jump instead.
Go buy yourself a monocle.
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E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
244
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 04:11:00 -
[82] - Quote
Grrr ran up against this again....didn't jump because i got on late and knew if a jumped it would lock me out for friday night where there is a corp op. So couldn't jump over to my clone w/ the cpu implant to do a couple incursions....so
I logged off...again.
Oooo look other shinny games...
Need more-ádecent content a casual player can access in a 1-2h play period that is actually fun and contributes to long term personal and corp goals. This applies to PvE and PvP. |
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
19
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 04:34:00 -
[83] - Quote
E man Industries wrote:Grrr ran up against this again....didn't jump because i got on late and knew if a jumped it would lock me out for friday night where there is a corp op. So couldn't jump over to my clone w/ the cpu implant to do a couple incursions....so
I logged off...again.
Oooo look other shinny games...
And that's the biggest reason I want to see the timer to be reduced to as little as it reasonably can be (server/technical wise).
If the timer didn't exist jump clones would be far more convenient. I don't want to see such situations arising where logging off due to the jump clone timer is a reasonable decision. I have personally logged off due to the jump clone timer quite a few times because there wasn't any other reasonable decision at the time. If a game mechanic creates within the player the inevitable decision to log off it needs to be changed.
Some people say the timer adds to the game limitations that add strategy, but to me its just a useless limitation that can lead to negative outcomes (logging off). |
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
249
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 12:30:00 -
[84] - Quote
I don't believe a player should be able to jump back and forth within the same play session as that would be a huge change.
Need more-ádecent content a casual player can access in a 1-2h play period that is actually fun and contributes to long term personal and corp goals. This applies to PvE and PvP. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
126
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 12:54:00 -
[85] - Quote
Dont use my clone much myself, but I can see the problems with the 24h system.
I like the skill based reduction, but I wouldnt want it to go below 20h.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
299
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 13:12:00 -
[86] - Quote
Actually I really do like this idea. It wouldn't affect the spirit of the Jump Clone timer, and it would allow you if, for example, you were perpetually 5 minutes late to jumping not to have to miss an op once every few times in order to get your jump clone back in order. |
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