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Author	Topic
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.31 18:46:00 - [61] Edited by: goodby4u on 31/07/2008 18:46:45 Originally by: Xen Gin Edited by: Xen Gin on 31/07/2008 18:42:00 the West wouldn't attack Iran while their economies are still heavily influenced by crude oil. Indeed.
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.31 18:47:00 - [62] Originally by: Xen Gin What would happen if US Gas was $12 a gallon? A recent news article I read states that Iranian missiles were pointed at Saudi Arabia, Oman and Yeman, and not Israel. The West wouldn't attack Iran while their economies are still heavily influenced by crude oil. That too, yeah. It'd be economic suicide. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.31 18:48:00 - [63] Originally by: goodby4u And I understand the military is not invincible, but we will crush Iran. Whats your basis for thinking that? They have a large and experienced army, a good record of fighting full scale wars, a large (if ageing) air force, support no doubt from paramilitary (read: terrorist) groups, not to mention a defensive advantage. The US military, on the other hand, is already stretched to near-capacity on several other fronts. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly an expert or anything. But aside from nationalistic idiocy, is there any reason to assume the US would have an easy time of it? ------ Originally by: Micheal Dietrich You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
ivar R'dhak STK Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.31 18:49:00 - [64] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: ivar R'dhak This John Ritter speech fits like fist on eyeball: Why are Americans such crazy bullies? I agree with the first part where he says take control of the information you get... But we arent bullies, we might participate in the rest of the world too much, but thats because isolationism doesnt work.... And you might ask why specifically the middle east? Well several reasons but the underlining reason is our economy is driven by a product they make and it is important to defend such an important resource. NOT Bullies? Wonder what the opinion of an Iraky would be on that after he get¦s harassed at yet another American checkpoint? Bully is the polite term. You really need to hit youtube and enter "economic hitman" in the search field. Your perception and the reality of what the US does to the rest of the world are VERY divorced. To put it mildly. _ Mal-`Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-¦Big damn heroes sir.¦ Mal-¦Aint we just.¦
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.31 18:55:00 - [65] Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: goodby4u And I understand the military is not invincible, but we will crush Iran. Whats your basis for thinking that? They have a large and experienced army, a good record of fighting full scale wars, a large (if ageing) air force, support no doubt from paramilitary (read: terrorist) groups, not to mention a defensive advantage. The US military, on the other hand, is already stretched to near-capacity on several other fronts. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly an expert or anything. But aside from nationalistic idiocy, is there any reason to assume the US would have an easy time of it? Our troops are more well trained,have better technology, will have the sky all to ourselves, will have the ocean to ourselves....Not to mention we currently occupy countries on either side of Iran's border. In any sense we have every military advantage besides that of numbers... Now I do agree the problem would come into play when we have to restabilise the country.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:01:00 - [66] Originally by: ivar R'dhak Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: ivar R'dhak This John Ritter speech fits like fist on eyeball: Why are Americans such crazy bullies? I agree with the first part where he says take control of the information you get... But we arent bullies, we might participate in the rest of the world too much, but thats because isolationism doesnt work.... And you might ask why specifically the middle east? Well several reasons but the underlining reason is our economy is driven by a product they make and it is important to defend such an important resource. NOT Bullies? Wonder what the opinion of an Iraky would be on that after he get¦s harassed at yet another American checkpoint? Bully is the polite term. You really need to hit youtube and enter "economic hitman" in the search field. Your perception and the reality of what the US does to the rest of the world are VERY divorced. To put it mildly. There are several reasons we invaded Iraq, and in some cases the people in said country are alot better off due to what ****** hussain was doing(now a very large number of the country has cell phones). Let me ask you this, if america closed itself from the rest of the world and stopped doing anything outside its own borders, do you think good would come of it? Also im not going to sit through 2 hours of"economic hitman", especially because its on youtube.
ivar R'dhak STK Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:03:00 - [67] Man you¦re really struggling with this learning from history stuff. Last time the US was up against a comparable foe was the Korean war. And you got almost dropped into the sea by the Chinese offensive. Iran would be 10 times worse because of the abysmally low number off troops. Plus all your major military assets(aircraft carriers) are in easy reach of an Iranian counter attack and probably the first things to sink. _ Mal-`Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-¦Big damn heroes sir.¦ Mal-¦Aint we just.¦
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:07:00 - [68] Blah blah blah blah. Seriously though, if we do bomb Iran, slant drilling technology has improved vastly over the last decade. Or, as a wise man has once said. "You have a milkshake, and I have a milkshake." </sarcasm> _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:07:00 - [69] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: goodby4u And I understand the military is not invincible, but we will crush Iran. Whats your basis for thinking that? They have a large and experienced army, a good record of fighting full scale wars, a large (if ageing) air force, support no doubt from paramilitary (read: terrorist) groups, not to mention a defensive advantage. The US military, on the other hand, is already stretched to near-capacity on several other fronts. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly an expert or anything. But aside from nationalistic idiocy, is there any reason to assume the US would have an easy time of it? Our troops are more well trained,have better technology, will have the sky all to ourselves, will have the ocean to ourselves....Not to mention we currently occupy countries on either side of Iran's border. In any sense we have every military advantage besides that of numbers... Now I do agree the problem would come into play when we have to restabilise the country. Well, not sure about "skies to ourselves"- Iran allegedly has in excess of 200 operational fighters (of varying age and vintage, obviously). Same is true of the sea, with Iran maintaining a small but surprising navy for a country with very little sea territory, which includes full-scale submarines, destroyers and frigates (again, of varying vintage and quality). Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not claiming to be an expert in either Iranian or US military matters, nor am I claiming for a moment that the Iranian army could fend off a US invasion in perfect conditions. But what I am saying is that the picture the numbers paint is a war a lot closer to Vietnam than Iraq- and we all know how that turned out. ------ Originally by: Micheal Dietrich You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
ivar R'dhak STK Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:11:00 - [70] Originally by: goodby4u There are several reasons we invaded Iraq, and in some cases the people in said country are alot better off due to what **** hussain was doing(now a very large number of the country has cell phones). The ignorance of this statement is mindbogling. Please do us all and yourself a favor and start researching this stuff before you comment on it. Originally by:** goodby4u Let me ask you this, if america closed itself from the rest of the world and stopped doing anything outside its own borders, do you think good would come of it? It would be the best thing that ever happened to this planet. Because for this to happen you¦d have to find out what your government is doing on this planet and who¦s actually responsible for these actions. Originally by: goodby4u Also im not going to sit through 2 hours of"economic hitman", especially because its on youtube. I guess FOX is more up your ally. _ Mal-`Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-¦Big damn heroes sir.¦ Mal-¦Aint we just.¦

goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:16:00 - [71] Originally by: ivar R'dhak Man you¦re really struggling with this learning from history stuff. Last time the US was up against a comparable foe was the Korean war. And you got almost dropped into the sea by the Chinese offensive. Iran would be 10 times worse because of the abysmally low number off troops. Plus all your major military assets(aircraft carriers) are in easy reach of an Iranian counter attack and probably the first things to sink. Hahahahahahahaha oh im sorry im sorry, carriers are not targets buddy, the mass of ships around the carriers are, and there is no way in hell any of their ships/aircraft can penetrate a carrier squadrons defences. Oh and those 200 aircraft they have are heavily outdated, the best of them are rebuilt f14s(if wiki could be trusted)and our f22s/f15s will outmatch them at every turn. Not to mention iranian aircraft wont be able to even target the f22s before their destroyed themselves. In short, yes they have alot of aircraft, but due to our advanced electronics(in comparison to iranian electronics)and stealth tech they will not only lose the air battles, but they would also probably lose many of their airstrips in the first strike.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:16:00 - [72] I think it's fair enough to say that the ignorance on both 'sides' of this issue is mindboggling. The irony of a thread about an ignorant armchair general being commented on by ignorant armchair generals is about to blow my mind. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:17:00 - [73] Originally by: ivar R'dhak Originally by: goodby4u Also im not going to sit through 2 hours of"economic hitman", especially because its on youtube. I guess FOX is more up your ally. I watch as many different news agencies as possible to ensure I dont just get 1 side of the issue.
Nuovo Baggu Amarr The Three Laws	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:21:00 - [74] Originally by: Pwett I think it's fair enough to say that the ignorance on both 'sides' of this issue is mindboggling. The irony of a thread about an ignorant armchair general being commented on by ignorant armchair generals is about to blow my mind. Thats what I said earlier. They just keep going and going :\| I said before that its not as simple as ABCs.. but I don't think it got through to them.
Buff Plankchest Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:25:00 - [75] Originally by: ivar R'dhak Man you¦re really struggling with this learning from history stuff. Last time the US was up against a comparable foe was the Korean war. And you got almost dropped into the sea by the Chinese offensive. Iran would be 10 times worse because of the abysmally low number off troops. Plus all your major military assets(aircraft carriers) are in easy reach of an Iranian counter attack and probably the first things to sink. Oh yeah, Iran is gonna sink a Nimitz class carrier
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:37:00 - [76] Originally by: Buff Plankchest The UK will do what we tell them to do Our PM has a permanent brown mark on his nose from having it so far up the presidents a$$. No doubt the UK will send troops just as it has always done at the American Presidents beck and call. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
Ademaro Imre Caldari Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:53:00 - [77] Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: goodby4u And I understand the military is not invincible, but we will crush Iran. Whats your basis for thinking that? They have a large and experienced army, a good record of fighting full scale wars, a large (if ageing) air force, support no doubt from paramilitary (read: terrorist) groups, not to mention a defensive advantage. The US military, on the other hand, is already stretched to near-capacity on several other fronts. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly an expert or anything. But aside from nationalistic idiocy, is there any reason to assume the US would have an easy time of it? Just what country are you talking about? 20 years ago, the top military tactics of Iran included, bayonet charges, trench warfare, and human wave attacks by children and old men, and, using row boats after their entire navy was sunk in less than 24 hours. The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it.
Buff Plankchest Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:56:00 - [78] We get to shoot children in rowboats?
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.31 19:59:00 - [79] Edited by: goodby4u on 31/07/2008 20:00:56 Originally by: Buff Plankchest We get to shoot children in rowboats? 4TW WARNING VIOLENCE
Buff Plankchest Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.31 20:08:00 - [80] Here's a cooler vid... it a priceless ad

Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.31 20:16:00 - [81] Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: goodby4u And I understand the military is not invincible, but we will crush Iran. Whats your basis for thinking that? They have a large and experienced army, a good record of fighting full scale wars, a large (if ageing) air force, support no doubt from paramilitary (read: terrorist) groups, not to mention a defensive advantage. The US military, on the other hand, is already stretched to near-capacity on several other fronts. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly an expert or anything. But aside from nationalistic idiocy, is there any reason to assume the US would have an easy time of it? Fun fact: Iran is about twice the size - area and population - of Iraq. One wonders where the approximately double resources would come from. The US would be lucky to get a fun-size snickers and a good luck card from Europe if they tried this. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.31 20:17:00 - [82] Originally by: Ademaro Imre Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: goodby4u And I understand the military is not invincible, but we will crush Iran. Whats your basis for thinking that? They have a large and experienced army, a good record of fighting full scale wars, a large (if ageing) air force, support no doubt from paramilitary (read: terrorist) groups, not to mention a defensive advantage. The US military, on the other hand, is already stretched to near-capacity on several other fronts. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly an expert or anything. But aside from nationalistic idiocy, is there any reason to assume the US would have an easy time of it? Just what country are you talking about? 20 years ago, the top military tactics of Iran included, bayonet charges, trench warfare, and human wave attacks by children and old men, and, using row boats after their entire navy was sunk in less than 24 hours. History not your strong point, then? In 1979, the "Iranian Revolution" happened, whereby the old regime was overthrown by the current Islamic one. Immediately after the Revolution, the military was essentially disbanded (60% of the military deserted, many were dismissed, and several thousand of those that remained were executed). It was this point of weakness that prompted Iraq to invade- and the war was fought essentially by a country that had no functioning military structure at all. Some 20 years later, their military is somewhat different. Bigger, at the least. ------ Originally by: Micheal Dietrich You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.31 20:21:00 - [83] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: goodby4u And I understand the military is not invincible, but we will crush Iran. Whats your basis for thinking that? They have a large and experienced army, a good record of fighting full scale wars, a large (if ageing) air force, support no doubt from paramilitary (read: terrorist) groups, not to mention a defensive advantage. The US military, on the other hand, is already stretched to near-capacity on several other fronts. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly an expert or anything. But aside from nationalistic idiocy, is there any reason to assume the US would have an easy time of it? Fun fact: Iran is about twice the size - area and population - of Iraq. One wonders where the approximately double resources would come from. The US would be lucky to get a fun-size snickers and a good luck card from Europe if they tried this. I do like snickers bars
Ademaro Imre Caldari Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.07.31 20:53:00 - [84] Originally by: Patch86 History not your strong point, then? In 1979, the "Iranian Revolution" happened, whereby the old regime was overthrown by the current Islamic one. Immediately after the Revolution, the military was essentially disbanded (60% of the military deserted, many were dismissed, and several thousand of those that remained were executed). It was this point of weakness that prompted Iraq to invade- and the war was fought essentially by a country that had no functioning military structure at all. Some 20 years later, their military is somewhat different. Bigger, at the least. Ok then - list their experiences and good records of warfare. They did something special in the last 20 years that brought them above tactics of the 1910's? Do you remember the Gulf War? How well T-72's performed? Iran is still using T-72's. The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it.
Ademaro Imre Caldari Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.07.31 21:11:00 - [85] Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 31/07/2008 21:13:28 Many people on this board are incorrectly assuming that an invasion of Iran would also require and would be followed with the "nation-building" that is occurring in Iraq. If a situation involved a requirement to attack Iran to destroy certain strategic targets which involved air, sea and land based assets, the US military could easily achieve this. The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it.
Kirjava Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.07.31 21:13:00 - [86] Originally by: Ademaro Imre Many people on this board are incorrectly assuming that an invasion of Iran would also require and would be followed with the "nation-building" that is occurring in Iraq. If a situation involved a requirement to attack Iran to destroy certain strategic targets which involved air, sea and land based assets, the US military could easily achieve this. This is true, methinks even Britain would be capable of beating Iran if an occupying force was not required in the aftermath. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.31 21:15:00 - [87] Originally by: Kirjava Originally by: Ademaro Imre Many people on this board are incorrectly assuming that an invasion of Iran would also require and would be followed with the "nation-building" that is occurring in Iraq. If a situation involved a requirement to attack Iran to destroy certain strategic targets which involved air, sea and land based assets, the US military could easily achieve this. This is true, methinks even Britain would be capable of beating Iran if an occupying force was not required in the aftermath. Indeed they could.
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.31 21:18:00 - [88] Originally by: Patch86 ...what I am saying is that the picture the numbers paint is a war a lot closer to Vietnam than Iraq- and we all know how that turned out. Funny that. I remember very clearly before the first AND the Second Iraq war the "experts" were saying the EXACT SAME THING. And yet, Iraq wasn't another Vietnam. While we did have some issues with stabilizing the country once we obliterated Saddam's military, our recent accomplishments speak for themselves. Iraq is a freer, more prosperous, and stronger nation than she has been for a long time. Now, I'm not saying that it would be WISE or even NECESSARY to attack Iran right now. However, let's not give the Iranian military too much credit. They are basically running a 20-50 year old military establishment using hand-me-down Soviet technology with some in-house developed small arms. They are about equal to where Saddam was before the FIRST Iraq war, with the addition of some somewhat temperamental missile technology bought from North Korea. Once we finish up with Iraq in roughly a year and a half, and assuming that SnObama isn't the Comrade-in-Chief AND it's actually necessary (still up in the air). Then we will deal with Iran. But it will be America's fight, on America's terms, using our most technologically advanced weapons bringing overpowering force. And we will win, handily. Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.31 21:25:00 - [89] Originally by: Bish Ounen Once we finish up with Iraq in roughly a year and a half, and assuming that SnObama isn't the Comrade-in-Chief AND it's actually necessary (still up in the air). Then we will deal with Iran. But it will be America's fight, on America's terms, using our most technologically advanced weapons bringing overpowering force. And we will win, handily. You willing to put ISK to that timetable? ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Kirjava Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.07.31 21:25:00 - [90] Bish, if America wants to do that then it can, but if it tries to pull the UK in - I would be placing bets on the odds of a revolution here. The people wouldn't stand for it and its beginning to dawn on people in my area that protests do bugger all to the current government. If America goes - it goes alone unless Iran starts nuking people, thats a whole different kettle of fish. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.

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